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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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T

Tamanon

Banned
OK so what's the endgame that would satisfactorily answer the "Benghazi" questions and the
IRS shenanigans? What do you need to make it past this?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
UnlimitedRx said:
So they took steps to stop it and yet it continued through 2012. No one was fired. They denied any wrongdoing in 2012. That is a problem.
Click to expand...

They can't just fire people without an investigation. I understand why this is confusing, because of all the effort put in by capitalists to diminish the value of labor, but government employees generally still have unions. The report is coming out this week.

I generally agree that the IRS commissioner should not have said that it wasn't happening if it is. I would call for his resignation, but as noted, he was appointed by George W. Bush, and he's ALREADY resigned.
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
pigeon said:
They can't just fire people without an investigation. I understand why this is confusing, because of all the effort put in by capitalists to diminish the value of labor, but government employees generally still have unions. The report is coming out this week.

I generally agree that the IRS commissioner should not have said that it wasn't happening if it is. I would call for his resignation, but as noted, he was appointed by George W. Bush, and he's ALREADY resigned.
Click to expand...

It's hard to investigate something that you won't even admit is happening.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
BLACKLAC said:
The distractions not working gop.
Click to expand...
The last time the GOP tried "distraction" against a Democratic president, they lost seats in the House, even as crazy Uncle Gingrich promised they'd pick up 30 seats. In fact, this was the first time since 1934 that the non-presidential party failed to pick up seats in a midterm election. The Senate remained the same.

So hey, you know what? Go for it Republicans. Try and impeach Obama and find out the hard way

tumblr_lntvorzOyL1qm8vqso1_250.gif
 
U

UnlimitedRx

Banned
pigeon said:
No it isn't?

Do you have any actual evidence that the commissioner or any management figure attempted to stop, slow or falsify the investigation?
Click to expand...

You mean other than the fact that they lied about it publicly? And during an election season. I guess that isn't impeding an investigation as much as it is covering up the truth.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
UnlimitedRx said:
This is a joke right? You have people here saying "I don't see the problem" and you respond by attacking me with this absolutely baseless garbage. Pathetic.
Click to expand...

I would suggest you stop indicting imaginary people and present evidence when asked instead of suggesting others do it for you. I would suggest you do that now.
 
E

el retorno

Member
We should be investigating these groups. I'm sorry, they should not be tax exempt charities are whatever they are.

we should be investigating left leaning groups too (though I'd imagine there are less) like priorities USA or whatever its called.

Bacus did agree back in 2010

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=5E41CEE1-9785-0887-0CE04321BF37A8DF
Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) on Wednesday called on the Internal Revenue Service to investigate political activity by non-profit groups, specifically the GOP-allied groups spending tens of millions of dollars raised from anonymous donations to boost Republican congressional candidates headed into the critical midterm elections.

Recent media reports detailing the activities of big-spending GOP-leaning political groups “have raised serious questions about whether such organizations are operating in compliance with the Internal Revenue Code,” Baucus wrote in a letter to IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman.

The groups highlighted in the reports cited by Baucus include Crossroads GPS, American Action Network and Americans for Job Security – all of which are so-called “social welfare organizations” registered under section 501(c)4 of the tax code.
Click to expand...

bullshit they're social welfare groups, they are political. there is no reason they shouldn't be paying taxes.

I think its a problem when it ONLY targeted right leaning groups but I have no problem with the IRS going after political groups in general. This is all part of campaign finance and why is so messed up.
 
P

phaze

Member
empty vessel said:
You could probably choose either 1962 or 1964 depending upon how broadly you conceive of an invasion. It doesn't take much for me to constitute an invasion, so I'd probably say 62 at the latest. See the Strategic Hamlet resettlement program, which involved bombings of South Vietnamese villagers by American pilots.
Click to expand...

I fail to see how supporting an established country against insurgency, at the behest of that country, constitutes an invasion. By 1962 there were around 15 thousand US army personnel in Vietnam. The only thing they were capable of invading were Saigon's brothels.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
phaze said:
I fail to see how supporting an established country against insurgency, at the behest of that country, constitutes an invasion. By 1962 there were around 15 thousand US army personnel in Vietnam. The only thing they were capable of invading were Saigon's brothels.
Click to expand...

You mean this government?

The South Vietnamese governments were basically just vessels for continued Western control against the nationalist desires of the Vietnamese people. I can assure you that the majority of Vietnamese people opposed the US government attacking them to stave off Vietnamese independence.

I consider bombing people an invasion.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
empty vessel said:
But what does that matter to anything? Ho Chi Minh did not have anything to do with why the US was in South Vietnam, which was to prevent South Vietnamese independence from Western imperial rule.
Click to expand...

The comment I made referred to why people equate Vietnam to North Korea (essentially Vietnam was once the worst human rights hellhole in the world.)
 
C

Chichikov

Member
phaze said:
I fail to see how supporting an established country against insurgency, at the behest of that country, constitutes an invasion. By 1962 there were around 15 thousand US army personnel in Vietnam. The only thing they were capable of invading were Saigon's brothels.
Click to expand...
That's an amazingly revisionist history of the roots of the Vietnam War.
After World War II, Vietnam had a revolution to kick Japanese and French (under Vichy) forces from their country, it's a classic anti-colonial struggle that I think it's hard to oppose (especially as it was fought against axis powers).
Shortly after their victory, Allied and nationalist Chinese decided that fuck that independence, we're taking it back because colonialism is awesome!
French and English conquered the south while Chinese conquered the north.

It was always a war against foreign occupation, the fact the the US later propped a puppet regime in the south doesn't change that fact.
We kinda stumbled into the whole cold war global struggle thing by accident - communists had to deal with results of Chiang Kai-shek's actions and the US was scared into thinking the USSR is going to conquer the west from Saigon (Americans were never great on geography).
 
V

ViperVisor

Member
BLACKLAC said:
That's a wrap folks.
Click to expand...

They still want a scalp. I see this clip being used to try and get Jay Carney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21algdhMEjw

This goofball pestering about this was pretending he had something by deliberately trying to conflate the white house single minor change with the entire drafting process within the intelligence agencies.

He said it was an "act of terror" the next day and again on the next day. Carney points that out in that press Q and A.

But the media loves to stroke their Journo-peen with irrelevant hair splitting gotcha back and forth politics. Actual reporting of important stories is too hard.
 
B

BLACKLAC

Member
^^^ Truth.

Atlagev said:
No, they'll just create a bullshit "You didn't build that" or "What difference does it make?" moment out of this. I'm sure they're already working hard on it as we speak.
Click to expand...

Sure they will, republicans are easy to control. They don't have a health care bill to lie about to get the republican sheep to turn out for the midterms so they try to raise Benghazi from the grave. Makes me mad really, Romney and the GOP politicized the whole thing while the 4 bodies were still smoldering.

Once again Obama put republicans in their place and the vast majority of Americans aren't falling for it.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Time to get rid of all of the amendments and just have 4:

1. Freedom of Speech*

2. Guns. Guns for everyone.

3. The only religion in Amurica is Christianity.

4. Marriage is only between straight people. No homos.


*Only for conservatives.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Wilsongt said:
Time to get rid of all of the amendments and just have 4:

1. Freedom of Speech*

2. Guns. Guns for everyone.

3. The only religion in Amurica is Christianity.

4. Marriage is only between straight people. No homos.


*Only for conservatives.
Click to expand...
What about

5. States can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they vote republican
 
J

Jackson50

Member
el retorno said:
They're going down this path again?
Click to expand...
A distinction without a difference. The contortions to which they resort are astonishing. And their efforts are only going to intensify. Republicans have been fumbling for a scandal since he was inaugurated, and they've largely failed. But the present environment is prime for a scandal. It's a powder keg that only requires a match. And Republicans are deranged with igniting it. Therefore, expect an unfathomable degree of mendacity.
pigeon said:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Au__8djkzrLedGVZdUo2TEhFdGlDT0pkdUFGU2FYNHc&oid=1&zx=qalshtwgwm6f

what the hell man
Click to expand...
Haha! I just completed two manuscripts. It's remarkable I remain even slightly comprehensible.
 
E

el retorno

Member
Jackson50 said:
A distinction without a difference. The contortions to which they resort are astonishing. And their efforts are only going to intensify. Republicans have been fumbling for a scandal since he was inaugurated, and they've largely failed. But the present environment is prime for a scandal. It's a powder keg that only requires a match. And Republicans are deranged with igniting it. Therefore, expect an unfathomable degree of mendacity.
Click to expand...

I love reading your posts even if I have no idea what half the words mean
 
P

phaze

Member
empty vessel said:
You mean this government?

The South Vietnamese governments were basically just vessels for continued Western control against the nationalist desires of the Vietnamese people. I can assure you that the majority of Vietnamese people opposed the US government attacking them to stave off Vietnamese independence.
Click to expand...



Well on my part, I can assure you that majority of Vietnamese people did not want to see Stalin's and Mao's like repressions introduced in their country.

Vessels ? Only if North Vietnam was a vessel of Mao and Khrushchev. Ngo Dinh Diem was a dictator who had to fend off continuous northern aggression. In that he found a common interest with US. Before Vietcong stepped up its attacks, US military presence was virtually non-existent. Do you consider reinforcing the Pusan perimeter and Incheon an invasion of South Korea ?

I consider bombing people an invasion.
Click to expand...

I disagre. Even aside of our current argument, the word invasion seems to imply to me a commitment of land troops. Wiki seems to generally agree with me on that.


Chichikov said:
That's an amazingly revisionist history of the roots of the Vietnam War.
After World War II, Vietnam had a revolution to kick Japanese and French (under Vichy) forces from their country, it's a classic anti-colonial struggle that I think it's hard to oppose (especially as it was fought against axis powers).
Shortly after their victory, Allied and nationalist Chinese decided that fuck that independence, we're taking it back because colonialism is awesome!
French and English conquered the south while Chinese conquered the north.

It was always a war against foreign occupation, the fact the the US later propped a puppet regime in the south doesn't change that fact.
We kinda stumbled into the whole cold war global struggle thing by accident - communists had to deal with results of Chiang Kai-shek's actions and the US was scared into thinking the USSR is going to conquer the west from Saigon (Americans were never great on geography).
Click to expand...

Well the USSR "conquered" Hanoi from Sankt Petersburg so perhaps that scenario is not that far-fetched. : )
 
E

el retorno

Member
phaze said:
I disagre. Even aside of our current argument, the word invasion seems to imply to me a commitment of land troops. Wiki seems to generally agree with me on that.
Click to expand...

Intervention, invasion.

both are foreign involvement in domestic affairs, they serve the same purpose.

On the IRS subject, the Dems seem to be condemning this as if it was targeting left-leaning groups. I don't think its gonna get much traction because I doubt there gonna find much to link it to the white house which is what makes a scandal actually reflect badly on a president
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Dax01 said:
whaaaaaaaaat a dbag http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...ppens-if-you-dont-pay-obamacares-tax-penalty/
Click to expand...

Gene is a self-employed New Yorker who currently purchases his own health insurance. He also is a strong opponent of Obamacare. And starting next year, Gene plans to drop his health coverage in express protest of the health law’s mandate.

“I will cancel my insurance the instant I can no longer be denied insurance for preexisting conditions,” Gene wrote in an e-mail Sunday night.
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I know this makes me a terrible person, but, I mean, what if he got in a car wreck or something after discontinuing his insurance for no goddamned reason? I would kind of like to read that story, I guess. Jeez.
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
rocketknight said:
I know this makes me a terrible person, but, I mean, what if he got in a car wreck or something after discontinuing his insurance for no goddamned reason? I would kind of like to read that story, I guess. Jeez.
Click to expand...

He mentions that on his blog.

And if I ever do contract some really horrible, catastrophic disease that, say, causes me to lose all my senses or vote Democratic (pardon the redundancy), I can always, thanks to Obamacare, apply for health insurance then. Heck, I might even get the insurance for free: As I write this, I’m 61 years old, so depending on how sick I am, there’s at least a chance that I could be dead before any lawsuit for non-payment of medical bills could wind its way through the courts.
Click to expand...
 
R

rocketknight

Member
FLEABttn said:
He mentions that on his blog.
Click to expand...

lol.

Meanwhile, at the Louisiana circus:

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — A proposal that would tap into federal funding available to offer insurance to the working poor narrowly received the backing Wednesday of the House health committee, after two Republican lawmakers sided with Democrats to advance the bill.

But one of those Republicans said his vote was a mistake.

...

Pope said he didn't realize he was voting to support the bill, saying he had been in and out of the hearing as he handled bills in other committees at the same time.

"I made a bad vote, plain and simple. I voted wrong, and I didn't mean to. That was not my intent," Pope said. "I just plain messed up."

Pope's vote got the bill out of committee, heading to the House floor.
Click to expand...
 
E

el retorno

Member
I love the fact Reuters keeps referring to the "US Embassy in Benghazi" when no such thing exists or has ever existed. Nice fact checkers.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
phaze said:
Well the USSR "conquered" Hanoi from Sankt Petersburg so perhaps that scenario is not that far-fetched. : )
Click to expand...
The only foreign power who conquered Hanoi after World War II was the French.
Ho Chi Minh was not installed by Moscow, he was fighting a decolonization struggle against the French (and to a lesser degree, the English and Nationalist chinese forces) , he was even looking for American support in that struggle, only when the US made it patently clear that they'll support anyone who oppose him because communism did he decided to go all in on Chinese and Soviet backing.

Also, China provided much more support to the north during the war than the USSR.

p.s.
That is not to say that he was a great leader or that Vietnam would've propser under his rule, I'm merely trying to point out that Vietnam was never about a global clash of ideologies, which is what sold the American public (and French before it) on that war.
 
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