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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Diablos

Member
Rove: Obama Poll Numbers Spell Disaster for Democrats

President Barack Obama's approval ratings with the public "are setting off alarm bells for Democrats — and for good reasons," Republican political strategist Karl Rove wrote in The Wall Street Journal.

...

The Republican Party is the minority party, which means that this election is precisely the time for the GOP to move beyond obstructionism and show that it has the answers Americans want," Rove wrote.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Rove-Obama-Democrats-2014/2014/05/01/id/568835#ixzz30WaDYNSk
How the fuck are they going to move past obstructionism when THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING PLATFORM SINCE 2009 HAS BEEN JUST THAT?

I love how 53% want Congress to counterbalance the President's policies, even though they're already doing far more than that (complete obstructionism). People are so stupid. So let's just give the Senate to the people who held the global economy hostage just because.

Oh and 40 to 34 Americans are more confident in Democrats -- but they still want to keep them from controlling congress. HOW DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE?

I can't believe these sadistic fucks are going to take back the Senate. November is going to hurt so bad. Hold me.
 
How the fuck are they going to move past obstructionism when THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING PLATFORM SINCE 2009 HAS BEEN JUST THAT?

I can't believe these sadistic fucks are going to take back the Senate. November is going to hurt so bad. Hold me.

I don't even understand how that line is supposed to help his side. It doesn't really work as a propaganda piece. "We're coming up on a vote, so let's stop blocking every effort made and try to actually do something so people vote for us." Like, that's probably a good strategy for them. I'm just surprised to see someone actually say it out loud.
 

Piecake

Member
How the fuck are they going to move past obstructionism when THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING PLATFORM SINCE 2009 HAS BEEN JUST THAT?

I can't believe these sadistic fucks are going to take back the Senate. November is going to hurt so bad. Hold me.

Tell like half of New York City or LA's population to move to Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and North Dakota. Democrats would easily remain in control of the senate with a supermajority.

In fact, instead of getting depressed, you should lead the charge by moving their first.

On a side note, how we pick the senate is not very democratic...
 

Diablos

Member
Yes, Diablos will just move to Wyoming and we'll have a 60 seat majority. See you in the mountains.

It's okay you don't have to believe in things that aren't true
Dems are about as doomed as they were this time in 2010. Actually more.

Young people don't give a damn about midterms, Obama has been President for 6 years, the Senate map by default heavily favors the GOP (and that's excluding any additional gains from GOPers running good races/having the grace of the SCOTUS to rape campaign finance -- all of this is just gravy).
 

benjipwns

Banned
Tell like half of New York City or LA's population to move to Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and North Dakota. Democrats would easily remain in control of the senate with a supermajority.

In fact, instead of getting depressed, you should lead the charge by moving their first.
Don't ask the Free State Project about this

On a side note, how we pick the senate is not very democratic...
Vastly more than it originally was.
 

Diablos

Member
Give DC two Senators and make Puerto Rico a state already.

When is the next potential manufactured crisis for a shutdown? 2015, right? It is vital that Dems retain a Senate majority -- even if it is just by one -- because the GOP when left to their own devices in both chambers will NOT fold so easily next time.

Everyone is thinking Hillary is a cure-all for Dem woes, but if 2015 is as big of a disaster as it could potentially shape up to be, the party's image will be tarnished and that will hurt her chances severely -- ESPECIALLY against someone like Christie. It looks like Bridgegate is, well, water under the bridge at this point.
 
Give DC two Senators and make Puerto Rico a state already.

When is the next potential manufactured crisis for a shutdown? 2015, right? It is vital that Dems retain a Senate majority -- even if it is just by one -- because the GOP when left to their own devices in both chambers will NOT fold so easily next time.

Everyone is thinking Hillary is a cure-all for Dem woes, but if 2015 is as big of a disaster as it could potentially shape up to be, the party's image will be tarnished and that will hurt her chances severely -- ESPECIALLY against someone like Christie. It looks like Bridgegate is, well, water under the bridge at this point.

yes please
 
Unfortunately, the actual study it's referring to is paywalled :( .

But, this definitely matches my experience. I grew up in an extremely liberal, non-church-going family, and my parents heartily encouraged me to adopt their beliefs -- and I did, up until I moved out and became a religious conservative :p. Heh.

Anyone else in Poli-GAF have similar experiences? (in either direction of political movement?)

This isn't rare http://www.vox.com/2014/4/28/565998...ds-raised-as-atheists-stay-that-way-as-adults

It'd actually be a great thing to study, the 'why'?
 

benjipwns

Banned
Jennifer and Ryan Russon of Coral Springs, Florida, are two such parents who believe they can train their children to represent how the world should be. They are raising their son Maxwell, age 8, and daughter Anna, age 6, to become staunch liberals and atheists. Their family refuses to shop at Walmart because its owners are, according to Ryan, "goose-stepping Nazis.”

“Both kids already understand that the minimum wage needs to be raised,” Jennifer explains. “In fact, my son had to pick a president to do a report on in his third-grade class and wrote an essay about how being able to afford food is a basic human right—that this would be his first initiative were he POTUS.”

Under her parents’ influence, Anna fell out of favor with her conservative kindergarten teacher when she announced that she would not eat Papa John’s pizza during a class pizza party because the company’s CEO was reluctant to provide healthcare benefits to his employees.

“We make sure the kids know that just because daddy may make more money than somebody else that does not mean he is a harder worker or made better choices,” Jennifer explains. “Certainly this is sometimes the case, but it is not always the case. Feeling empathy and seeing the bigger picture is a big part of being liberal and I think we do a good job of impressing this on our kids.”
nofunallowed.jpg
 

Drakeon

Member
I thought this was an interesting article at The Atlantic:

Do Children Just Take Their Parents' Political Beliefs? It's Not That Simple





Unfortunately, the actual study it's referring to is paywalled :( .

But, this definitely matches my experience. I grew up in an extremely liberal, non-church-going family, and my parents heartily encouraged me to adopt their beliefs -- and I did, up until I moved out and became a religious conservative :p. Heh.

Anyone else in Poli-GAF have similar experiences? (in either direction of political movement?)

My parents are religious conservatives and I'm a liberal agnostic (probably an atheist realistically, just haven't labeled myself that yet).
 

Aaron

Member
My parents aren't even registered to vote. I'm a registered Democrat. Though none of us are remotely religious.
 

Tamanon

Banned
My parents started conservative but Reagan soured them. I started Republican during the Clinton years, but the party changed too much. Now I'm a mix.
 
When I have friends spout nonsense, I teach them to question their sources (instead of just trying to change their minds).

This is considerably harder than I ever thought it would be.

Been having a couple of friends going hard right in these last few months. They link stuff with fancy headlines all the time, and almost always the articles are badly sourced, or the source says the complete opposite of the headline. After some months of asking them to read the articles they link, mission accomplished: they just don`t tag me when they post crap anymore.

Gods. Even though there was that article that said it's nearly impossible to change someone's political orientation, there must be a better way. Got one saying that he'd vote for the equivalent of Golden Dawn nowadays. Dude was normal 4 years ago. There must be a way to reach them.
 
This is considerably harder than I ever thought it would be.

Been having a couple of friends going hard right in these last few months. They link stuff with fancy headlines all the time, and almost always the articles are badly sourced, or the source says the complete opposite of the headline. After some months of asking them to read the articles they link, mission accomplished: they just don`t tag me when they post crap anymore.

Gods. Even though there was that article that said it's nearly impossible to change someone's political orientation, there must be a better way. Got one saying that he'd vote for the equivalent of Golden Dawn nowadays. Dude was normal 4 years ago. There must be a way to reach them.

I think one of the biggest obstacles when trying to get someone to change their mind is letting them know your opinion. Which is difficult, because you don't want to try to lie or trick someone. But if someone has a deeply held belief and you come out saying you disagree, most will just start ignoring what you have to say. The only way for some people to think about information is if it comes from a source they trust. Or at least, one they don't actively distrust. Just an observation I've made. Not sure if it's just anecdotal or even helpful, but it's there.
 

benjipwns

Banned
But, this definitely matches my experience. I grew up in an extremely liberal, non-church-going family, and my parents heartily encouraged me to adopt their beliefs -- and I did, up until I moved out and became a religious conservative :p. Heh.

Anyone else in Poli-GAF have similar experiences? (in either direction of political movement?)
My parents are Republicans, but not religious. I don't recognize the legitimacy of a corporation claiming a monopoly on violence. And don't care about religion.

Getting just shy of terminal degrees in history and political science I moved from libertarian to voluntaryist due to recognizing that the premises of libertarianism don't hold up any better than everything on the other side of it. Though that didn't really have anything to do with the INDOCTRINATION since I'm pretty autodidactic it just corresponded to the time period that I happened to drift past people like Hayek and Nozick towards people like Tucker, Kropotkin, Bakunin and Rothbard. (Then Huemer.) Probably because of how much free time I had.

Is this similar? I don't know.
 

East Lake

Member
This is considerably harder than I ever thought it would be.

Been having a couple of friends going hard right in these last few months. They link stuff with fancy headlines all the time, and almost always the articles are badly sourced, or the source says the complete opposite of the headline. After some months of asking them to read the articles they link, mission accomplished: they just don`t tag me when they post crap anymore.

Gods. Even though there was that article that said it's nearly impossible to change someone's political orientation, there must be a better way. Got one saying that he'd vote for the equivalent of Golden Dawn nowadays. Dude was normal 4 years ago. There must be a way to reach them.
Golden Dawn huh? What does he like about Golden Dawn?
 

East Lake

Member
What's not to like about Golden Dawn should be the real question amirite? The flag looks like a maze but then you go in and realize there's no exit.
 
I think one of the biggest obstacles when trying to get someone to change their mind is letting them know your opinion. Which is difficult, because you don't want to try to lie or trick someone. But if someone has a deeply held belief and you come out saying you disagree, most will just start ignoring what you have to say. The only way for some people to think about information is if it comes from a source they trust. Or at least, one they don't actively distrust. Just an observation I've made. Not sure if it's just anecdotal or even helpful, but it's there.

I agree, which ia why I never state what i'm for, and limit myself to only commenting on the news. Unfortunately, the common result is them eventually assuming that I am "the enemy". Its all just.. So silly. Borderline mccarthyism, red scare and all.

On the golden dawn bit, its the local equivalent. A presidential candidate that proposes going back to a military dictatorship, lies about our previous military government not having tortured anyone, and says meaningless crap like "we need a smaller government, a free market, and to increase investment in infrastructure and social services", tackled with the usual fuck the poor/blacks/gays stuff. Dude has less than zero chance of winning, so at least theres that. Shouldve compared him to Le Pen, tbh.

It baffles me that a close friend could suddenly turn that way, having always been grotesquely ignorant of politics, but it has happened, and I simply cannot reach him, no matter how inoffensive my approach.
 

East Lake

Member
If he isn't even reading articles and sympathizes with Golden Dawn that's going to be tough to change lol. He probably needs to see a therapist.
 

benjipwns

Banned
On the golden dawn bit, its the local equivalent. A presidential candidate that proposes going back to a military dictatorship, lies about our previous military government not having tortured anyone, and says meaningless crap like "we need a smaller government, a free market, and to increase investment in infrastructure and social services", tackled with the usual fuck the poor/blacks/gays stuff. Dude has less than zero chance of winning, so at least theres that.
Who is this? Neves?
 

KingK

Member
I thought this was an interesting article at The Atlantic:

Do Children Just Take Their Parents' Political Beliefs? It's Not That Simple





Unfortunately, the actual study it's referring to is paywalled :( .

But, this definitely matches my experience. I grew up in an extremely liberal, non-church-going family, and my parents heartily encouraged me to adopt their beliefs -- and I did, up until I moved out and became a religious conservative :p. Heh.

Anyone else in Poli-GAF have similar experiences? (in either direction of political movement?)

Hmmm, I was raised by religious conservative parents, though they never forced their views upon me whatsoever. I was raised Catholic and forced to go to church until I was 12 when they let me decide if I wanted to keep going, and I said no. I knew who my parents voted for because I asked, but they never talked politics with me, and encouraged me to explore whatever I was interested in (I was on a huge space documentary kick in 3rd and 4th grade, watched a lot of PBS/Nova that started getting me to question religion and my parents bought me whatever science books/movies I wanted).

I ended up being very interested in politics, and a liberal atheist (though I was Republican until high school, but that doesn't count because I was almost entirely politically unaware). My dad has been dead for 5 years, but my mom voted for Obama twice and I'm pretty sure has voted straight Dem since 2008, so neither of them were ever far right Tea Party types.
 
How the fuck are they going to move past obstructionism when THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING PLATFORM SINCE 2009 HAS BEEN JUST THAT?

I love how 53% want Congress to counterbalance the President's policies, even though they're already doing far more than that (complete obstructionism). People are so stupid. So let's just give the Senate to the people who held the global economy hostage just because.

Oh and 40 to 34 Americans are more confident in Democrats -- but they still want to keep them from controlling congress. HOW DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE?

I can't believe these sadistic fucks are going to take back the Senate. November is going to hurt so bad. Hold me.

It's a Newsmax article.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
I thought this was an interesting article at The Atlantic:

Do Children Just Take Their Parents' Political Beliefs? It's Not That Simple


Unfortunately, the actual study it's referring to is paywalled :( .

But, this definitely matches my experience. I grew up in an extremely liberal, non-church-going family, and my parents heartily encouraged me to adopt their beliefs -- and I did, up until I moved out and became a religious conservative :p. Heh.

Anyone else in Poli-GAF have similar experiences? (in either direction of political movement?)
Near the end it mentions where lessons only get tested with actual experience, and I think that has more to do with it. When your parents instill a rigid set of beliefs, then when you explore the world and those rigid set of beliefs show their cracks then the whole thing can crumble. Similarly, when you convert without fully thinking things out, you're liable to convert back later in life.
 
Where are the jobs?

But seriously the media and the gop has done a great job putting doubt in these numbers. The president can't brag about them because A) the GOP will say they're cooked B)because it doesn't feel like the economy's improving. The 2nd has elements of the truth but I imagine many a voter will misdiagnois the problem and solution
 
Looking at the numbers long term feel a lot. Probably a lot of people stopped looking. So the GOP intransigence gives Obama a better number but makes peoples lives worse
 
Bmoju1OCQAAIg2a.png


Question to people who know about polling:

I saw this poll getting paraded by some conservatives showing Merkley down (its a push poll anyways):
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Oregon-April-2014-Full-Results.pdf
Question I have is regarding the question they used

It was this:
And if the election for the United States Senate were held today, for whom would you
vote if you had only these two choices? Republican, Monica Wehby, or Democrat, Jeff Merkley?

Aren't you supposed to mix it up so half gets Merkley first and Half gets Wehby first?
 
Looking at the numbers long term feel a lot. Probably a lot of people stopped looking. So the GOP intransigence gives Obama a better number but makes peoples lives worse
I am not too worried about "people stopped looking for jerrbs" because first of all, the participation rate is going up and down every month and secondly baby boomers are leaving the market at a record pace.
 
I am not too worried about "people stopped looking for jerrbs" because first of all, the participation rate is going up and down every month and secondly baby boomers are leaving the market at a record pace.

Long term unemployed fell by like 300,000. People are not looking for work because they can't get hired. That's not good news when they don't have the safety net.
 
Hopefully the summer months will only improve these numbers. I feel really bad for the long term unemployed though because it's pretty much game over for them.
 
Not a lot of good news in that report. The US economy has been slowly drowning for a couple years as we do nothing, and I see no panic or concern from anyone.
 

Drakeon

Member
Not a lot of good news in that report. The US economy has been slowly drowning for a couple years as we do nothing, and I see no panic or concern from anyone.

What can even be done from a policy standpoint? They can't pass legislation, the republicans are all about keeping America in terrible economic shape to win elections (even though it didn't win them 2012).
 
Bmoju1OCQAAIg2a.png


Question to people who know about polling:

I saw this poll getting paraded by some conservatives showing Merkley down (its a push poll anyways):
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Oregon-April-2014-Full-Results.pdf
Question I have is regarding the question they used

It was this:
And if the election for the United States Senate were held today, for whom would you
vote if you had only these two choices? Republican, Monica Wehby, or Democrat, Jeff Merkley?

Aren't you supposed to mix it up so half gets Merkley first and Half gets Wehby first?
5 stories on Benghazi?

BLM dispute? Did they forget Clive Bundy's name?
 
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