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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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platypotamus

Member
I wonder how common it is that parents/couples-in-general don't share political beliefs. My mom is a catholic democrat, and my dad is a nutty atheist conservative. They have been together (mostly happily) nearly 35 years.

I'm an atheist socialist and my sister is a maybe not quite as socialist as me atheist.
 
R

rocketknight

Member
The Cal Thomas column in my paper today asks why Obama can't be more like Jack Bauer. I Am Not Making This Up:

You know things are bad when you can’t wait for the return of a TV character to demonstrate what resolve and leadership really look like.
Click to expand...
(why doesn't Obama run around torturing and shooting terrorists)
Bauer displays many of the traits once found in, or at least expected of, American presidents and top military leaders. He doesn’t waffle or wiggle; neither does he negotiate. He wins. If you think I am about to draw a contrast between Bauer and the current president of the United States, you are right.
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(under bauer's watch benghazi never would have happened because no wiggling)
The only thing I learned in a physics class before flunking it was that nature abhors a vacuum and will fill it if given the opportunity.
Click to expand...
(damn all those lliberal academic elitists who passed physics)
While Obama plays numerous rounds of golf and the military fiddles with issues like women in combat and whether taxpayers should pay for convicted intelligence leaker Bradley (now Chelsea) Manning’s gender transition, Putin acts. The Middle East is in flames—diplomatically and literally—because this administration has no discernible foreign policy other than criticizing Israel.
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(who cares about women and lgbt people having the same rights as old straight white men! none of this is relevant but i'm gonna make sure i get in a transphobic dig at chelsea manning because eww gross! jack bauer wouldn't have anything to do with that! also nice job fucking up the middle east obama, it was fine before you decided to meddle)
Perhaps Jack Bauer can again inspire as he did when 24 premiered in November 2001, two months after the terrorist attacks on America. Sometimes fiction is stranger than truth.
Click to expand...
(dear jack bauer, plz deliver us from obama. amen.)

lol
 
Z

Zona

Member
platypotamus said:
I wonder how common it is that parents/couples-in-general don't share political beliefs. My mom is a catholic democrat, and my dad is a nutty atheist conservative. They have been together (mostly happily) nearly 35 years.

I'm an atheist socialist and my sister is a maybe not quite as socialist as me atheist.
Click to expand...

They're divorced now, but my father is an atheist conservative and my mother is a born again Christian (low information voter) democrat. I ended up an atheist techno-socialist who votes democrat for lack of a better (realistic) option. Locally the Greens get my vote.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
platypotamus said:
I wonder how common it is that parents/couples-in-general don't share political beliefs. My mom is a catholic democrat, and my dad is a nutty atheist conservative. They have been together (mostly happily) nearly 35 years.

I'm an atheist socialist and my sister is a maybe not quite as socialist as me atheist.
Click to expand...

I would have fought with my husband to divorce if that were the case.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
codhand said:
.

Obama must think the American people have the brain of a goldfish to forget about Benghazi over this.
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Imagine the numbers we would have had if it wasn't for Obama's job killing tax hikes + Obamacare. ;(

rocketknight said:
The Cal Thomas column in my paper today asks why Obama can't be more like Jack Bauer. I Am Not Making This Up:


(why doesn't Obama run around torturing and shooting terrorists)

(under bauer's watch benghazi never would have happened because no wiggling)

(damn all those lliberal academic elitists who passed physics)

(who cares about women and lgbt people having the same rights as old straight white men! none of this is relevant but i'm gonna make sure i get in a transphobic dig at chelsea manning because eww gross! jack bauer wouldn't have anything to do with that! also nice job fucking up the middle east obama, it was fine before you decided to meddle)

(dear jack bauer, plz deliver us from obama. amen.)

lol
Click to expand...

Conservatives have always viewed 24 as a documentary, and not a fictional T.V. series, so this isn't too surprising.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
adg1034 said:
Fox News stopped airing Obama's joint press conference with Angela Merkel because he didn't talk about Benghazi.

This is real life.
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Well seriously now. What is more important? A pseudoscandal from 18 months ago or a Russian military conflict that could escalate to WW3?

alt635_635x250_1399051060.jpg

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel threatened tougher new sanctions against Russia on Friday if Moscow does not quickly change its disruptive behavior.

"We will not have a choice but to move forward with additional more-severe sanctions" if Russia disrupts a presidential election in Ukraine scheduled for May 25, Obama said at a news conference with Merkel outside the White House.

"Further sanctions will be unavoidable," Merkel agreed.

Both leaders made it clear that the next step would be to order sanctions on separate parts of the Russian economy or military — on energy or arms for example — but neither leader specified precisely what was being considered.

Putin "needs to be dissuaded from his current course," Obama said.
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http://news.yahoo.com/obama-merkel-threaten-russia-sanctions-163450159--politics.html

You know the answer.
#Benghazi! #Benghazi! #Benghazi!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
APKmetsfan said:
Long term unemployed fell by like 300,000. People are not looking for work because they can't get hired. That's not good news when they don't have the safety net.
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Anecdotally the job market really did feel like it went into overdrive last month. It seems like every unemployed or under employed person I know, young or old were getting multiple interviews and job offers, including the mega long term unemployed. Job openings seem about the same but the callback rates on applying for them have skyrocketed.

However, that hasn't stopped everyone I know from complaining about the general downward slide in wages that have occurred when compared to other raising costs. I've seen multiple complaints about the companies they're working for wanting to continue destruction of benefits, destruction of bonuses, and a complete lack raises of any sort that has been going on for years now.

I know it could just be my circle of people I know at my location, but it seems that's what the stats are suggesting as well. Really this is the perfect time for Piketty economics to take hold if we are in a place where people aren't worried about jobs but are worried about being paid what they deserve.
 
P

platypotamus

Member
Dax01 said:
I would have vote with my husband to divorce if that were the case.
Click to expand...

My dad's a good guy who just trusts the wrong sources and doesn't want to pay taxes. Whenever we actually talk about anything political, he never really disagrees with what I say. He tends to disagree with everything republicans say except "lower taxes", and wants lower taxes enough that he votes for them anyway. Any actual issues on the ballot (non-tax-related), he tends to vote the right way (like Prop 8 in California, he was pretty mad about how that went).
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
What do you guys think about a proposal like this?"

http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/a-jobs-agenda-for-the-right

This help should take two forms. First, we should provide information to unemployed workers about local labor-market conditions around the country. Many unemployed workers simply may not know how hard it is to find a job near their home in the same industry in which they were previously employed, that a different industry is booming, or that a different city or state has far more job openings in their desired field than their current location offers.

A simple two- or three-page document with information about unemployment rates, job openings, and payroll gains by industry could be very helpful and would not cost much. The government already routinely collects and publishes data on local labor-market conditions, so the only extra work involved in implementing this proposal would be packaging and distribution.

Second, we should provide relocation subsidies to the long-term unemployed to finance a good chunk of the costs of moving to a different part of the country with a better labor market. These subsidies should cover a solid majority of reasonable and necessary moving expenses. We may also want to make up the difference with a low-interest loan, with a repayment scheme capped at a small percentage of annual earnings subsequent to their starting a job. Moving is a major investment that requires a fair amount of up-front cash. Many of the long-term unemployed just don't have the money and don't have much access to credit.

These kinds of subsidies should be available only to long-term unemployed workers who live in an area with a poor local labor market. Workers who have left the labor force since the start of the Great Recession should be allowed to enroll provided that they were long-term unemployed before leaving. Subsidies should also be available to workers who were long-term unemployed but have exited within the past few years from long-term unemployment into a part-time job, or into a job that pays significantly less than they earned in their previous job. And workers must move to a destination a good distance from their current residence — say, at least a two-hour drive — to be eligible for a subsidy.
Click to expand...
 
A

AnotherNils

Member
I think one unintended consequence of relocation subsidies is you'll see some state governments take a sudden budget hit as there's max exodus of people.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Sounds like a good way to subsidize the creation of more Detroits. Not a fan. It would cripple many cities and states while benefiting states that are already doing well.
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twmcort.gif


I mean you can target the vouchers. To prevent them from affecting a place like detroit which can come back with a places that can't. You can also make it so they must stay in state. I'm more discussing the idea that you pay people to relocate.
 
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Gotchaye

Member
An obvious question to ask is to what extent unemployment varies from county to county because the unemployed are ignorant of opportunities elsewhere or can't afford to move. The next obvious question to ask is whether this variation in unemployment from county to county indicates significant inefficiency such that the overall unemployment rate would go down much if we moved people around.
 
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RustyNails

Member
Jon Stewart needs to do an epic smackdown of this obsession with Benghazi on bullshit mountain, like he did with Sean Hannity last week.
 
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FyreWulff

Member
The infrastructure should be upgraded to improve mobility within cities and across the country. Right now, cities are intentionally set up to keep the poor where they are, and city-to-city moving is only viable via the Greyhound if you want to take anything of note with you. We're one country but you'll find out a lot of people want to keep other people from coming from other places, but will also try to keep people in the places they are in.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
platypotamus said:
I wonder how common it is that parents/couples-in-general don't share political beliefs. My mom is a catholic democrat, and my dad is a nutty atheist conservative. They have been together (mostly happily) nearly 35 years.

I'm an atheist socialist and my sister is a maybe not quite as socialist as me atheist.
Click to expand...
james-carville-and-mary-matalin-on-meet-the-press.jpeg
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Samarecarm said:
So Bob Dole's 1996 campaign site is still online, being preserved for educational/historical purposes by an independent group. (hat tip: Daily Kos Elections)

This is a little before my time, so it was interesting to poke around and see what a 1996 presidential campaign sounded like.

What stood out to me is that we now think of the '90s as a great economic time ... but back in '96, campaigns were apparently full of kvetching about the weak economy, just like you'd hear today:



and there were still the nutty conspiracy theories about government surveillance:



I guess some things never change.

edit: Clinton/Gore '96 site here
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Adding to that is a September 1996 New York Times article talking about how Dole's economic position didn't work out. Apparently people somehow liked the economy, but didn't like Clinton's handling of it, up until people changed their minds a couple of months before the election.

Here's a good history of economic confidence polling of that time showing in '96 people that 60%-70% of people saw the economy as either good or very good throughout the year and only 7-10% gave a very bad rating. For comparison sake, the exact same poll for late February 2014 puts it at 37% good or very good and a 24% very bad rating.

Another fun thing I found while searching for these statistics is this November 1992 LA Times article declaring Reaganomics dead after Clinton's victory. Sadly it seems like the democrat's anti-Reaganomics push never went farther than Clinton's campaign speeches (including his 2012 DNC speech) while the republicans took the concept to an even more and more crazy extreme to the point that you could diagnose their position as legally insane.
 
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FyreWulff

Member
. Bob Dole believes that parents should take responsibility for the material that their children view,
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The modern Republican Party wouldn't even let something like this make it out of backroom committee meetings
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Samarecarm said:
So Bob Dole's 1996 campaign site is still online, being preserved for educational/historical purposes by an independent group. (hat tip: Daily Kos Elections)

This is a little before my time, so it was interesting to poke around and see what a 1996 presidential campaign sounded like.

What stood out to me is that we now think of the '90s as a great economic time ... but back in '96, campaigns were apparently full of kvetching about the weak economy, just like you'd hear today:
Click to expand...

Bob Dole never really had a chance. He was a decent guy and a war hero. And he was very rational compared to today's GOP. But Clinton was young good looking successful guy who was on a roll. Bob Dole was just a cranky old guy yelling "Get off my lawn!". Romney had a better chance than Dole did.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Manarola said:
Yikes, that comments section is a mess.
Click to expand...

I posted a rational rebuttal . . . and then it got deleted:

This comment was deleted.

Lion's Mane spec9 • an hour ago
Freedom of speech trumps free markets. All freedom rests on freedom of speech. Take away that, the most basic of all freedoms, and all is lost.

Secondly, I don't think that Donald Sterling actually hates Blacks. In the recording, he says that he loves Black people and that he wants his girlfriend to love them too! He simply did not want his girlfriend cuckolding him and advertising it in broad daylight. His colleagues were reminding him that this woman was making a fool of him, and he found it scandalous.​
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Oh the fucking irony!

Edit: Someone cut & paste part of my original into their message:
"As a commercial entity, a company wishes to have as many customers as possible whether the be green, white, brown, blue, or purple. Thus the company did what was in its own best commercial interest and fired an employee that was offending potential customers.
And this somehow bothers people here? Why do you hate free markets?" - spec9.
Click to expand...


I've reposted another version of it and I'll copy it here before it gets deleted again:
Enjoy my comment before they delete it (again).

A company fired a "community manager", a job that is to present a public face of the company to customers, for defending racism. The company wants to maximize sales to customers whether they are green, blue, brown, white, or purple. Thus, the commercial company did what was in their own best commercial interest and terminated an 'at will' employee that was offending potential customers . . . and you have a problem with this?

Why do you hate free enterprise?
Click to expand...

What sad small people. They deleted a post similar to that one.

Edit: And they deleted the above post. And they deleted it again when I posted it for a third time. Am I saying something offensive in that post? No, they just can't handle good opposing arguments . . . so they delete them. And that is their right . . . but it definitely shows what sad little hypocrites they are.
 
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Piecake

Member
Bit random, but ive been thinking about this for a bit. Does anyone think that conservatives, in general (meaning not all, just a seemingly good portion), either dismiss or severely underestimate the influence of Structures on society/economy/politics?

I am trying to explain to myself the difference in beliefs that seems like it might be a big one.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Even as someone who's pretty sensitive to private suppression of speech, I don't think the NBA banning the guy is problematic. It's totally unbelievable that these attitudes aren't coloring Sterling's interactions with people, and in fact we've got a lot of allegations that just that has been going on.

The privacy angle is interesting, and I can understand wanting to punish the girlfriend (if she broke the law) for rule-of-law reasons. I wouldn't automatically nullify, if I were on that jury. But he's a victim in something like the way I'm a victim if someone breaks into my house and finds a dead body. We might not want to encourage that kind of behavior in general, but since this time it worked out for the best it's weird to feel sympathy for the guy who got caught.

I think it's sad that the guy on twitter got fired, of course, but we don't need to rehash that sort of argument.

Piecake said:
Bit random, but ive been thinking about this for a bit. Does anyone think that conservatives, in general (meaning not all, just a seemingly good portion), either dismiss or severely underestimate the influence of Structures on society/economy/politics?

I am trying to explain to myself the difference in beliefs that seems like it might be a big one.
Click to expand...

I think probably you should talk a bit about "Structures" first.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
I just interviewed for a Job I really want today. Nervous as heck... If I get it I'll have to cut down on poligaf.

Gotchaye said:
I think it's sad that the guy on twitter got fired, of course, but we don't need to rehash that sort of argument.
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Wasn't he community manager? Thats the main reason I was finding it funny. Conservatives saw free speech while it was really the guy doing a damn horrible job of pissing off part of his companies customers. In other words he's a pretty horrible CM.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Hey, look. A fugitive who escaped the Hollywood Democrat plantation:

During an appearance on The Chris Stigall Show Friday, Schneider said his act has become more and more political and said he tries not to be “100% left or 100% right” but rather down the middle.

But at the same time, he warned, “Democracies don’t end well. We are sliding very fast towards fascism. It’s an ugly kind of thing. There’s this kind of mob mentality that we have to be careful of.”

Later in the interview, Schneider targeted President Barack Obama directly, saying, “There’s not one segment of business under the Obama administration that hasn’t been hurt.”
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/snl-alum-rob-schneider-america-is-sliding-very-fast-towards-fascism/
 
P

Piecake

Member
Gotchaye said:
I think probably you should talk a bit about "Structures" first.
Click to expand...

Well, I think the whole bootstraps thing is the best example. I get the impression that the people who claim this feel that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed when that is not the case. It completely ignores the fact that growing up in a poor, single parent home who works all the time puts you at a significant disadvantage before you even start school and then the school you go to is crap because of how we fund it. Barriers are placed in front of children that hamper them from succeeding. I don't see any bootstrap people recognize that as a serious issue.
 
D

Dram

Member
APKmetsfan said:
Wasn't he community manager? Thats the main reason I was finding it funny. Conservatives saw free speech while it was really the guy doing a damn horrible job of pissing off part of his companies customers. In other words he's a pretty horrible CM.
Click to expand...
Does anyone think the firing will have an impact on their company, or will it just blow over?
 
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NYCmetsfan

Banned
Cyan said:
Was that Twitter account his "official mouthpiece" account or whatever you'd call it? If so, then the firing makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

He has a verified account and this is his bio'

Present: @TurtleRock & @EvolveGame. Past: Community Programs Designer @RiotGames, Community Manager @Treyarch. All my tweets are belong to me.
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that last sentence really means nothing, your tweets aren't your own
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Samarecarm said:
Well, you better not get it, then! ;) j/k -- I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
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I would still post! I just wouldn't talk about certain things. And thanks! I didn't get the last position I applied for that was a similar position but I'm hoping this one works out better.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Man, fuck the white privilege thread, I should have known better.
Talking about that always gets my blood boil, god dammit, we have like 7 poligafers mods, how the fuck have you not yet implemented the "punch a poster in the throat" feature yet?
I blame the welfare state.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Chichikov said:
Man, fuck the white privilege thread, I should have known better.
Talking about that always gets my blood boil, god dammit, we have like 7 poligafers mods, how the fuck have you not yet implemented the "punch a poster in the throat" feature yet?
I blame the welfare state.
Click to expand...

I blame white people.

I am with you, people are mistaking the term "white privilege" with OMG I AM WHITE AND NOT PRIVILEGED.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
cartoon_soldier said:
I blame white people.

I am with you, people are mistaking the term "white privilege" with OMG I AM WHITE AND NOT PRIVILEGED.
Click to expand...

This is why I keep trying to frame it in terms of "disadvantages you don't have", to try and get past that reflexive "but things in my life have been haaaaaard too!"
 
C

Chichikov

Member
The Technomancer said:
This is why I keep trying to frame it in terms of "disadvantages you don't have", to try and get past that reflexive "but things in my life have been haaaaaard too!"
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You'll definitely get a better response from people using that approach, but the term was framed like it was for a reason -
When you frame it as minority disadvantage, a common response would be "we should stop discriminating then", it can sometime be honest, and it can sometime be used as a cynical tactic, framing it as white privlige, calls upon you for a positive (might I even say affirmative) action to address the issue.
Also it's more historically accurate, the discriminatory system we have today was erected first and foremost by white hetrosexual males to give white heterosexual males an unfair advantage; xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia were much more tools used to advance that goal than the reasons it was created.

Anyway, I'm done with that thread, as doge is my witness I've tried.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Chichikov said:
Man, fuck the white privilege thread, I should have known better.
Talking about that always gets my blood boil, god dammit, we have like 7 poligafers mods, how the fuck have you not yet implemented the "punch a poster in the throat" feature yet?
I blame the welfare state.
Click to expand...

Gypsies/Roma
Israel-Palestine
White Privilege


The Holy GAF horrible thread trifecta.

Samarecarm said:
I thought this was an interesting article at The Atlantic:

Do Children Just Take Their Parents' Political Beliefs? It's Not That Simple
Click to expand...

The "I don't have any political opinions" guy annoyed the fuck out of me.
 
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