• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

Status
Not open for further replies.
You sound positively giddy.
Giddy? No. The whole thing is rather sad.

Someone thinking its humorous that Glenn is getting a taste of his own "no compromise" medicine? Maybe.

I wish greenwald was treated more like a person the left was willing to criticize rather than some hero. You can use his leak while saying the man is subject to at least some criticism
 

Sibylus

Banned
So Greenwalds is getting blasted by Wikileaks for withholding a country the US is recording every call on because Glenn is convinced it will lead to deaths.

The revolutions always eat their own.

That being said its not hard to figure our a list of 5 or so countries that it could be. And I'm sure they're all ready assuming its them.
I wonder what level of redaction (if any) remains acceptable to Assange in the present, evidently indiscriminately getting innocents killed no longer fits the bill?
 
I wonder what level of redaction (if any) remains acceptable to Assange in the present, evidently indiscriminately getting innocents killed no longer fits the bill?
I don't think any. They never wanted to redact in the first place. If I remember right the times had to beg them.

I'm glad greenwald does seem to stick to a sense of protecting the innocent assange never did.
 
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268779/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Jd36a7zI


Can we just end this stupid boycott. Nobody likes the Cuban government but how does this help? The Castro's are in still in charge.

HAVANA (AP) - A group of former high-ranking U.S. officials, business executives and academics called Monday for President Barack Obama to loosen the five-decade embargo on Cuba in order to stimulate the flow of capital and expertise to the island's nascent class of independent entrepreneurs.

The head of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, meanwhile, announced that he would make his first trip to Cuba in 15 years to gauge how the growth of the private business sector could create opportunities for American corporations.

Chamber head Thomas J. Donohue said he would meet with entrepreneurs and government officials and speak to students at the University of Havana next week. He will be accompanied by executives from Alticor, the parent company of the Amway direct-sales business, and Cargill, the Minnesota-based agribusiness giant.

"This trip will provide us with a first-hand look at changes in Cuba's economic policies and whether or not they are affecting the ability to do business there," Donohue said.

Advocates of greater engagement with Cuba say that U.S. public opinion increasingly supports weakening the embargo and have been pushing for Obama to open more channels to Cuba before he leaves office.

The open letter, meanwhile, asks the president to take a series of executive actions, including allowing legal travel to Cuba by experts who can train Cuban business people in law, real estate and financial services. It also requests Obama to allow U.S. travelers easier access to money in Cuba, along with increasing Americans' ability to send money from the U.S. to support private businesses.

It also asks Obama to authorize the sale of telecommunications equipment to Cuba, including cell towers and satellite dishes, and allow telecommunications company officials to conduct business travel to Cuba to sell their products.

In 2009, Obama allowed Cuban-Americans to make unlimited trips to visit relatives here. The George W. Bush administration had limited travel to Cuba to a trip every three years. In 2011, Obama reinstated "people-to-people" trips, allowing U.S. citizens to travel legally to Cuba for educational tourism focused on contact with ordinary Cubans.

President Raul Castro has legalized small-scale, private businesses in nearly 200 fields since 2010, creating a new class of roughly 400,000 independent entrepreneurs and their employees.

"Now more than ever the United States can help the Cuban people determine their own destiny by building on the U.S. policy reforms that have already been started," the letter reads.

The 44 signers of the letter include retired Adm. James Stavridis, former head of U.S. Southern Command; Andres Fanjul, a member of the Cuban-American family that runs America's largest sugar producer, and former Deputy Secretary of State and Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte.

A poll released in February by the nonpartisan Atlantic Council found that 56 percent of Americans and 63 percent of Floridians supported more direct engagement with Cuba. In Miami-Dade County, home to the largest concentration of Cuban-Americans, 64 percent of adults said they favored changing U.S. foreign policy toward Cuba.

Miami-Dade has more Support than Florida which has more support than the rest of the country. There's no excuse.
 
Eric Holder proclaim "no bank is too big to jail", sends no one to jail.

I guess it's nice extracting a criminal guilty plea, but those fines do nothing, we need to put real people in real jail.
Has there been an Attorney General as Republican as Eric Holder? DoJ is more right wing on immigration than the previous administrations, and more invisible on consumer protection as well. Holder is easily my biggest disappointment of Obama's two terms. The guy won't even resign.
 
at least they plead guilty. that is progress. also tax evasion is a far less important crime than the mortgage stuff that literally left people homeless and robbed them.

edit: I like this gif

giphy.gif
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I'm in Massachusetts at the moment, the first state I've ever been to that has had gay marriage legalized.

I find myself strangely more attracted to women...

Try not to get drunk then, you'll wind up gay married to 12 different people.
 

Chichikov

Member
at least they plead guilty. that is progress. also tax evasion is a far less important crime than the mortgage stuff that literally left people homeless and robbed them.
I guess, but I'm not sure what difference is in practical terms, it's just a fine it's not like you can file civil lawsuits based on this.
At least the HSBC bullshit (for real, everyone involved with that debacle need to be fired, starting with Holder) got people angry.


edit: I like this gif

giphy.gif
Man, AMC is really cut the budget of The Walking dead.

fake edit: I like this gif

wolf19k5y.gif
 

alstein

Member
I guess, but I'm not sure what difference is in practical terms, it's just a fine it's not like you can file civil lawsuits based on this.
At least the HSBC bullshit (for real, everyone involved with that debacle need to be fired, starting with Holder) got people angry.


Man, AMC is really cut the budget of The Walking dead.

fake edit: I like this gif

wolf19k5y.gif

The difference is a guilty plea opens them up to suits by others, as the guilty plea is evidence. Not really applicable in this case, but would be in others.

They need to jail the CEOs though. Jail is the one thing that CEOs are afraid of.,
 

Drakeon

Member
Looks like we've got our Murkowski/Lugar for the 2014 cycle. Two polls today have neoconfederate Chris McDaniel beating Sen. Thad Cochran (one by 4, one by 7) even after McDaniel's campaign was caught secretly videotaping the senator's wife.

Being Mississippi, who knows if McDaniel could lose, but Democrats have an excellent candidate in Travis Childers, who would certainly be the most conservative member of the Senate majority, but a win's a win.

It's starting to feel like 2012 again. All the pundits said Republicans would win the majority, but Democrats won three seats and only lost one. Only lose SD, pick up GA (Nunn was leading again today), KY, MS.
Awesome, never underestimate the tea party to fuck up a sure thing.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Its the economists fault tho

that was his excuse for real


O really?

Same in TN. They overestimated tax revenue, so now that there's a shortfall, they are cutting corners on the promises made. It makes me wonder if it's all on purpose. Fudge the anticipated budget, make promises to get re-elected, real budget happens, "sorry we don't have enough money to keep the promises."

Eric Holder proclaim "no bank is too big to jail", sends no one to jail.

I guess it's nice extracting a criminal guilty plea, but those fines do nothing, we need to put real people in real jail.

I really wish they would start using disgorgement in addition to fines. Take away all profits related to misdeeds and these institutions will start paying attention really quickly when they lose tens or hundreds of billions.

I don't think any. They never wanted to redact in the first place. If I remember right the times had to beg them.

I'm glad greenwald does seem to stick to a sense of protecting the innocent assange never did.

Right. He always wanted to publish untouched to avoid charges of any bias.
 
So most of that is your typical climate change denier conservative bullshit but where does the 'racist' part come from? Was he just in a talking point zone and threw that in there?
 

Wilsongt

Member
You don't say?

No, Taking Away Unemployment Benefits Doesn’t Make People Get Jobs

“This notion that temporary unemployment benefits provide people a reason not to return to work really needs to end because it is not supported by the data,” IDES Director Jay Rowell said.

Other natural experiments have shown that, rather than spurring a flurry of hiring, cutting off benefits can have disastrous consequences. North Carolina was ahead of the pack, making such drastic cuts to its benefits system that it was dropped entirely from the federal long-term compensation program. The number of state residents receiving benefits dropped by 40 percent to 45,000 by December. Since then, the unemployment rate has dropped, but not likely because people are finding work but because they’re giving up altogether. More than 22,000 found a job after the loss of benefits, but the state’s labor force is experiencing the largest contraction in history, with 77,0000 fewer people working or looking for a job in October compared to the previous year.

Research has come to similar conclusions. The job search requirements have been found to incentivize people to spend more time job hunting. Other research has found that receiving the checks doesn’t discourage people from getting work.

So what does happen when people lose their benefits? A 2012 report from the Government Accountability Office found that their poverty rate spikes by 5 percent, a third turn to government programs, and 90 percent turn to family members or money from retirement or savings accounts.

Today, more than 2 million people across the country are now going without benefits. By the beginning of April, that had meant the lost of $5.4 billion in support, which also means a loss in spending for their local communities. In Illinois, IDES notes, the loss of benefits has meant the loss of $23.7 million in purchasing power every week.

I don't think my brain is wired to understand any reasoning why the GOP does what it does. It all seems extremely counterproductive, stupid, and downright inhumane sometimes.
 
Right. He always wanted to publish untouched to avoid charges of any bias.

No, he chooses what to leak to further his Foreign Policy goals. Which amounts to screwing stuff up for the US, he doesn't believe in Freedom of Information and speaking truth to power. He believes in the public's right to know US/UK/Australia/Canada/NZ secrets. They had never had the media campaign that the Iraq leaks were likely to drive and had to go to the Times. The Times doesn't believe in anarchic info dumps like the techno/cyber/hacker/anti 'Imperialist' info groups do and demanded retractions.
 
Man, Colbert was rough on Elizabeth Warren last night.
In character, he grilled her pretty hard and didn't back down.
All in good fun, but I would have rather heard he speak more on what she wanted to say rather than refuting half baked comedy questions.
 
Same in TN. They overestimated tax revenue, so now that there's a shortfall, they are cutting corners on the promises made. It makes me wonder if it's all on purpose. Fudge the anticipated budget, make promises to get re-elected, real budget happens, "sorry we don't have enough money to keep the promises."

Of course it's the goal, Grover Norquist has said it before. You shrink government revenue until it can't sustain itself, and at that point it can be drowned in the bathtub.
 

KingGondo

Banned
Of course it's the goal, Grover Norquist has said it before. You shrink government revenue until it can't sustain itself, and at that point it can be drowned in the bathtub.
It's like some kind of sick comedy.

Oklahoma legislators go on the local PBS station, and pretty much every budget question can be answered using this form:

"Well of course we'd love to fund "X project/agency/public service" but there's just no money!"

Nobody ever seems to ask them why there's no money.
 

Crisco

Banned
Eric Holder proclaim "no bank is too big to jail", sends no one to jail.

I guess it's nice extracting a criminal guilty plea, but those fines do nothing, we need to put real people in real jail.

Putting bankers in jail would feel good, but I doubt it would change anything long term. The incentives are too large. People are still going to engage in bad behavior until the rewards are no longer worth the risk. Breaking the law doesn't matter to these people, they probably do more illegal things (drugs and hookers) in their private lives than anything they do on the job. You have to change or remove the financial mechanisms that make banking so profitable.
 

KingGondo

Banned
Putting bankers in jail would feel good, but I doubt it would change anything long term. The incentives are too large. People are still going to engage in bad behavior until the rewards are no longer worth the risk. Breaking the law doesn't matter to these people, they probably do more illegal things (drugs and hookers) in their private lives than anything they do on the job. You have to change or remove the financial mechanisms that make banking so profitable.
The problem is that there are laws in place to punish people like that, and the decision to prosecute is being made not based on whether the law was broken, but whether there might be some kind of "collateral effect" on the company or economy (which has become increasingly-broadly defined).

I guarantee you that at least some of the bankers who would be tempted to break the law would reconsider if there was a realistic possibility of jail time. Besides, people have been hurt by the misdeeds of these criminals, and convicting them would at least serve the purpose of justice.

We should also break up the banks, but that's another discussion.
 

Crisco

Banned
We don't have to break up the banks if they were properly regulated, but the problem is the bigger they are, they more influence they can exert on regulatory policy. There's nothing particularly wrong with a giant private bank, anymore than there is with the federal reserve. You just have to ensure people act in the best interest of their account holders.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
We don't have to break up the banks if they were properly regulated, but the problem is the bigger they are, they more influence they can exert on regulatory policy. There's nothing particularly wrong with a giant private bank, anymore than there is with the federal reserve. You just have to ensure people act in the best interest of their account holders.

And that's where the difficulty lies. Because what is in the interest of a traditional bank (checking, savings, mortgage) account holder can be very different from what is in the interest of an investment account holder. When banks intersected those two and pitted them against each other we got the mortgage crisis. Either way a group was going to get hosed.
 

KingGondo

Banned
We don't have to break up the banks if they were properly regulated, but the problem is the bigger they are, they more influence they can exert on regulatory policy. There's nothing particularly wrong with a giant private bank, anymore than there is with the federal reserve. You just have to ensure people act in the best interest of their account holders.
That's hard to do when the traditional functions of banks are mashed together with the risk-laden world of investment banking.

It's best to separate these functions entirely so there's as little conflict of interest as possible.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Man, Colbert was rough on Elizabeth Warren last night.
In character, he grilled her pretty hard and didn't back down.
All in good fun, but I would have rather heard he speak more on what she wanted to say rather than refuting half baked comedy questions.

And I wished Jon Stewart would have covered Cecily McMillan's side of the story when he brought her up in a segment.

This is the type of thing that reminds you that these guys aren't journalists, but comedians, and just how incredibly sad it is that we've come to expect more from these two comedians than every other actual journalist on tv.
 
You don't say?

No, Taking Away Unemployment Benefits Doesn’t Make People Get Jobs



I don't think my brain is wired to understand any reasoning why the GOP does what it does. It all seems extremely counterproductive, stupid, and downright inhumane sometimes.
Don't we have South America as a case study to display that brown people won't pick up and get jobs once you take away their benefits as an example? I'm sure the GOP will keep ignoring all the data possible to pursue their ideology.
 
I'm saying that if he supports Obama taking executive action to prevent DREAMers from getting discharged he should add his name to the discharge petition to get immigration reform through the House. It's posturing on his part.
I'm saying he's doing nothing. He said something he can put in a campaign ad but has done nothing to push immigration, there is no expense on his part. He's not really breaking with his party in anything but rhetoric and something that's not vital. He wouldn't buck his party if his saying this mattered.

Edit: Christie has got a solution for his economists screwing up. Screw workers!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/us-usa-new-jersey-budget-idUSBREA4J0TW20140520

(Reuters) - New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said on Tuesday he will slash the state's contributions to its public pensions by nearly 60 percent, or $2.3 billion, for this and next fiscal year combined in order to close a large, unexpected revenue shortfall.

The move could lead to lawsuits from public sector unions and is likely to meet resistance from the Democratic-led legislature, which has already said it is opposed to additional pension changes after cooperating with Christie on bi-partisan reforms in 2011.

The state's retirement system for public employees had nearly $59 billion of unfunded liabilities as of fiscal 2012, Moody's Investors Service said on Tuesday.
 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/...uality_decision_s_most_beautiful_passage.html

The issue we resolve today is a divisive one. Some of our citizens are made deeply uncomfortable by the notion of same-sex marriage. However, that same-sex marriage causes discomfort in some does not make its prohibition constitutional. Nor can past tradition trump the bedrock constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection. Were that not so, our would still be a racially segregated nation according to the now rightfully discarded doctrine of “separate but equal.” … In the sixty years since Brown [v. Board of Education] was decided, “separate” has thankfully faded into history, and only “equal” remains. Similarly, in future generations the label same-sex marriage will be abandoned, to be replaced simply by marriage.

....

We are a better people than what these laws represent, and it is time to discard them into the ash heap of history.

Holy shit
 
...So what's GOP's plan after government is dead? Tribal rule?

Well they start with stuff like this:

Edit: Christie has got a solution for his economists screwing up. Screw workers!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/us-usa-new-jersey-budget-idUSBREA4J0TW20140520

It's often argued that once a benefit goes into effect it's impossible to get rid of it. That's not the case on the state level, where it's easy as hell to scapegoat a group (state workers) and end their benefits. Especially when you have a charismatic governor. The problem for him this time is that LAST time he promised cutting these benefits would fix things. It might have fixed things but he threw the numbers off by cutting taxes. It's hard to see him getting the support this time.
 

gcubed

Member
Well they start with stuff like this:



It's often argued that once a benefit goes into effect it's impossible to get rid of it. That's not the case on the state level, where it's easy as hell to scapegoat a group (state workers) and end their benefits. Especially when you have a charismatic governor. The problem for him this time is that LAST time he promised cutting these benefits would fix things. It might have fixed things but he threw the numbers off by cutting taxes. It's hard to see him getting the support this time.

The charisma is officially dead in New Jersey...
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Well they start with stuff like this:



It's often argued that once a benefit goes into effect it's impossible to get rid of it. That's not the case on the state level, where it's easy as hell to scapegoat a group (state workers) and end their benefits. Especially when you have a charismatic governor. The problem for him this time is that LAST time he promised cutting these benefits would fix things. It might have fixed things but he threw the numbers off by cutting taxes. It's hard to see him getting the support this time.

And, according to the article, last time he did this it was with legislator support. This time he's having to do it with executive order.

The payments cover only what is owed to active employees. "We will not make the payments that are applied to the sins of the past," Christie said.

I guess New Jersey became Christieville after he got elected, because apparently this guy doesn't think any obligation the state took before him matters. He just puts his finger in his ears and pretends the state only started existing the moment he became governor. And even then he only has to do this because of his own personal screwups with overzealous tax cuts.

I hope New Jersey is paying attention to all this. It's pretty clear he doesn't deserve to be governor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom