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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
HylianTom said:
If my predictions of a closer race turn-out to be wrong and this ends-up being another election that's not really close in the Electoral College, how they react this time will be veerrrrry interesting. Hillary is decidedly not a superstar campaigner (at least, I don't think so), and this would normally be a very winnable campaign for the GOP. They need a Sista Soulja moment for their party in the very worst of ways, but such a moment isn't coming anytime soon, as many of their base voters literally think that they cannot betray God by changing political positions.
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Here's the problem: they'll contemplate this for a few months to a year before midterm season approaches again, at which point they'll return to far right rhetoric. And once again they'll misread midterm success as a harbinger for general election success in the future. It's a vicious cycle that is only made more extreme by the sheer hatred their base has of Obama and Hillary.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Here's the problem: they'll contemplate this for a few months to a year before midterm season approaches again, at which point they'll return to far right rhetoric. And once again they'll misread midterm success as a harbinger for general election success in the future. It's a vicious cycle that is only made more extreme by the sheer hatred their base has of Obama and Hillary.
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are you implying they lose 2016, do well in 2018 and the cycle repeats because I see that happening.
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Black Mamba said:
I agree with megamind. Test cruz's history as an attorney is irrelevant. Who he defensed does not matter so long as he did it ethically.

Stupid criticism.
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HylianTom said:
Yup. I read that, shrugged, and went, "so what?"
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Poodlestrike said:
Yup. MJ really reaching here.
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B-Dubs said:
Yep, you can't attack someone for doing their job so long as they did it ethically and well.
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We all agree.

Um...

What happens now?
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Does anyone here watch Ed Shultz? He has gotten very hot headed lately. "Where is Hillary on this", "Democrats want a debate". He seems very angry now for some reason. He keeps bringing on these unions on his show to gauge whether or not they will support Hillary if she opposes some trade deal.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Metaphoreus said:
(1) The federal judiciary is supposed to be undemocratic. There's a reason federal judges are appointed (as opposed to elected), hold their office for life, and can't have their pay reduced during their tenure. This isn't exactly news to anyone (except those who write at ThinkProgress or Slate, apparently).
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I'm interested to know how you reconcile this view with say, States having judicial elections. Seems odd that the federal judicary is supposed to be undemocratic but State courts not. Especially in light of all the electioneering that has to go on in modern politics, including raising money from outside groups and so forth.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Metaphoreus said:
We all agree.

Um...

What happens now?
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Black Mamba said:
I don't know about you, but I'm currently naked with my hand up to the screen awaited everyone to enjoin hands.
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d2dhKF3.gif


*shudders*

I'd rather argue about King.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Jooney said:
I'm interested to know how you reconcile this view with say, States having judicial elections. Seems odd that the federal judicary is supposed to be undemocratic but State courts not. Especially in light of all the electioneering that has to go on in modern politics, including raising money from outside groups and so forth.
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Stupid nonsense. Same goes for electing sheriffs and DA's. Gods only know what the fuckwits that came up with that were thinking.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Jooney said:
I'm interested to know how you reconcile this view with say, States having judicial elections. Seems odd that the federal judicary is supposed to be undemocratic but State courts not. Especially in light of all the electioneering that has to go on in modern politics, including raising money from outside groups and so forth.
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Midas Touch would correctly argue the states are simply free to decide how they want to set up their judiciary and if electing judges is part of it that's their perogative.

I agree, however, that it's currently a poor way to put judges in place. We're all in the 99 percentile regarding political awareness and how many of us know who the fuck to vote for when they are on the ballot? personally, I never do.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Black Mamba said:
Midas Touch would correctly argue the states are simply free to decide how they want to set up their judiciary and if electing judges is part of it that's their perogative.

I agree, however, that it's currently a poor way to put judges in place. We're all in the 99 percentile regarding political awareness and how many of us know who the fuck to vote for when they are on the ballot? personally, I never do.
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I looked up judicial candidates in my first election (2010) and ended up going with the incumbents in all cases, which is just what I've done ever since. I trust MN enough to assume there aren't any nutcase justices.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Chichikov said:
Ballmer is a business guy through and through, he was not an engineer, he didn't understand computers, he was an idiot and a terrible CEO.
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He proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn't understand business either, so i can't quite comprehend where you're coming from. Seems to me he was only good at two things: math and being/looking like a dick.

Roland_Gunner said:
One of David Corn's arguments why the article is germane is that Cruz used the exact same argument to oppose Debo Adegbile’s nomination to be the Civil Rights head. So good lawyer, but hypocrite?

http://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=video&id=973
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Hrm. Indeed.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Coriolanus said:
He proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn't understand business either, so i can't quite comprehend where you're coming from. Seems to me he was only good at two things: math and being/looking like a dick.
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I don't really accept the notion that there's this universal quality of "understanding business".
I think it's best if someone that understand software run a software company, same as it's best that someone who understands cars run a car company.
Yeah, there's some finance, corporate law and organizational "science" knowledge that can be applicable multiple fields, but those are generally not something that CEO need to be bothered with or be an expert at.
This idea that "business people" got "business skill" and therefor are most qualifed to run companies and make business decisions is the bane of corporate america.
I'm old enough to remember the high tech bubble of the 90s, and I've been around when software companies (including ones I worked for) started hiring managers from outside the industry and I've seen first hand how terribly it worked (though I'm relived that the industry has been mostly moving away from that crap).
So that's where I'm coming from.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
This woman is truly an idiot...

Now that a federal jury has found Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev guilty on all 30 counts, the only question that remains is whether they will decide to give him the death penalty. That was the topic of conversation at the top of Fox News’ Outnumbered on Thursday and co-host Andrea Tantaros had some interesting ideas about what might happen if they don’t.

“I hope he fries,” Tantaros said, admitting that it “sounds gruesome” but saying that given the “gruesome” nature of his crimes it’s what he deserves. She acknowledged the concerns that he will be treated as a “martyr” by the extremist Muslim world, but had larger worries.

“Could we potentially be looking at a situation where he’s traded if he is not put to death?” Tantaros asked. “ISIS and terrorist groups saying, ‘Free Tsarnaev.’ And then we’re in a situation again where there’s pressure to trade him or free him.” She was referring to the Obama administration’s decision to trade five Taliban detainees for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl last year.
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R

RustyNails

Member
Chichikov said:
I don't really accept the notion that there's this universal quality of "understanding business".
I think it's best if someone that understand software run a software company, same as it's best that someone who understands cars run a car company.
Yeah, there's some finance, corporate law and organizational "science" knowledge that can be applicable multiple fields, but those are generally not something that CEO need to be bothered with or be an expert at.
This idea that "business people" got "business skill" and therefor are most qualifed to run companies and make business decisions is the bane of corporate america.
I'm old enough to remember the high tech bubble of the 90s, and I've been around when software companies (including ones I worked for) started hiring managers from outside the industry and I've seen first hand how terribly it worked (though I'm relived that the industry has been mostly moving away from that crap).
So that's where I'm coming from.
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On the other hand, I can't think of any tech wizard that ran a company to the ground. Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Carmack all ran successful companies. Only thing I could think of that is slightly analogous are Japanese developers who are also in charge of the company being indulgent as fuck and taking their sweet time polishing their baby (The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo, etc).
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
RustyNails said:
On the other hand, I can't think of any tech wizard that ran a company to the ground. Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Carmack all ran successful companies. Only thing I could think of that is slightly analogous are Japanese developers who are also in charge of the company being indulgent as fuck and taking their sweet time polishing their baby (The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo, etc).
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It's the difference between knowing how to do or make something and knowing how to make money. The business guys are there just to make sure you're making money, which is why you don't want them in-charge. They don't care about the end product. That's why it's really easy to tell when you're dealing with a business guy, they usually don't care about whatever they're making or selling, they're all about the money.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
RustyNails said:
On the other hand, I can't think of any tech wizard that ran a company to the ground. Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Carmack all ran successful companies. Only thing I could think of that is slightly analogous are Japanese developers who are also in charge of the company being indulgent as fuck and taking their sweet time polishing their baby (The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo, etc).
Click to expand...

id Software was certainly successful, but after reading Masters of Doom I'm not sure how they ever shipped anything given how toxic and paranoid their working environment was.

In that case, the quality of their product carried them through, despite Carmack's horrible (and sometimes illegal) business and management practices at the time.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Mario said:
id Software was certainly successful, but after reading Masters of Doom I'm not sure how they ever shipped anything given how toxic and paranoid their working environment was.

In that case, the quality of their product carried them through, despite Carmack's horrible (and sometimes illegal) business and management practices at the time.
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Is this when John Romero was around? Yeah I heard of the stripper and cocaine stories that they used to bring. But I imagine those crazy early 90's days were a thing of the past? As in horny 20 year olds get truckloads of cash they don't know what to do with.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
RustyNails said:
Is this when John Romero was around? Yeah I heard of the stripper and cocaine stories that they used to bring. But I imagine those crazy early 90's days were a thing of the past? As in horny 20 year olds get truckloads of cash they don't know what to do with.
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Yeah, the book starts from the very beginning and goes beyond Romero's departure.

It includes stories such as Carmack moving his desk into the half and setting up network monitoring software so he could make sure everybody was doing the required 15 hours a day work (anything less was considered not putting enough effort in despite some people having partners/families). I think I also recall they basically stole some equipment from a former employer or worked during company hours while employed there in order to get started (something shady like that, he tried stealing computers while at school anyway).
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
CrimzonSamurai said:
The good Dr. Carson has come out with a bold new stance on LGBT equality issues:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/ben-carson-lgbt-issues-personal/index.html

Which is "I don't want to talk about them."

So hope he runs, can't wait for the facepalm-induced concussions.
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Was just about to post this. Good god. The man is unfathomably stupid.

"You know, we should have a discussion about rights of gays and Christians".

"Um..that's what we're doing right now".
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Mario said:
id Software was certainly successful, but after reading Masters of Doom I'm not sure how they ever shipped anything given how toxic and paranoid their working environment was.

In that case, the quality of their product carried them through, despite Carmack's horrible (and sometimes illegal) business and management practices at the time.
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Haha. Carmack's a hardcore libertarian too, so this makes it even better.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
RustyNails said:
On the other hand, I can't think of any tech wizard that ran a company to the ground. Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Carmack all ran successful companies. Only thing I could think of that is slightly analogous are Japanese developers who are also in charge of the company being indulgent as fuck and taking their sweet time polishing their baby (The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo, etc).
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Not a tech guy, that was Wozniak's department.

And while you can't think of any big-name companies run by techies that imploded, I guarantee you, examples exist. Engineers do not always make for good managers.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Poodlestrike said:
Not a tech guy, that was Wozniak's department.

And while you can't think of any big-name companies run by techies that imploded, I guarantee you, examples exist. Engineers do not always make for good managers.
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Of course there are.
Being an engineer doesn't make you infallible and on the flip side, having an MBA does make you an automatic failure as a CEO.
I just strongly believe that on average, people make better decisions when they understand what the company is doing; I know I make better decisions on subjects that I truly understand.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Not a tech guy, that was Wozniak's department.

And while you can't think of any big-name companies run by techies that imploded, I guarantee you, examples exist. Engineers do not always make for good managers.
Click to expand...

I hate to be that guy, but of the four names on that list, two ran companies that imploded. Carmack ran Ion Storm into the ground, and apparently everybody forgot that Jobs was FIRED from Apple because of his inability to budget and manage people. And this isn't even a particularly meaningful list, since it only includes successful entrepreneurs. Obviously you don't know of very many unsuccessful entrepreneurs because they never become notable enough for you to hear about them.

Basically I'm incredibly dubious about this entire line of reasoning. Yes, managers who know nothing about their subject have weaknesses, but managers who have a deep knowledge of the subject matter and no actual organizational or leadership skills are way worse.
 
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