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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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H

Holmes

Member
Cerium said:
There's this poll too.

nbc_news-wsj-marist_south_carolina_gop_poll_chartbuilder_0328836a38ed8a390d88d22576d9ca99.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png


Shit is all over the place I have no idea what's going on anymore and that makes me worried about my investment.
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Well I'd rather Cruz come in a second place finish like that than Rubio.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Macho Madness said:
Republican registration for their caucus closed like 2 weeks ago. They're not going to check again. So technically a Republican could walk into tomorrow's caucus, register as a Democrat, yet still vote for the Republican caucus because they'll already be on the roll.
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Isn't this basically voter fraud?

Cerium said:
There's this poll too.

nbc_news-wsj-marist_south_carolina_gop_poll_chartbuilder_0328836a38ed8a390d88d22576d9ca99.nbcnews-ux-600-480.png


Shit is all over the place I have no idea what's going on anymore and that makes me worried about my investment.
Click to expand...

This is fine! This will give Bush reason to keep going.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
The difference is, your typical Bernie fan (ie. white, male, under 30, college educated, liberal in an urban area) doesn't see their concerns as "identity" politics - only those silly "extreme" feminists or BLM activists are evil identity politics and their just simply standing up for what's best for everybody that just so happens to be best for them as well.

All politics is identity politics of one form or another. But, in 2016 America, "identity politics" is a codeword even on the left for "things normal people shouldn't worry about because it's just the colored people or womens are getting uppity about what they think."

EDIT : I mean, you want some real identity politics? How about dudes on the Internet acting like your emails getting read is the largest civil rights issue of our time?
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I won't deny that there aren't idiots who use it that way (see people on reddit and tankies) but it's not like the concept of "identity politics" doesn't deserve to be criticized like anything else. Class-based leftism has certainly been critiqued to hell and back, and the determination that we have reached is that class struggle in and of itself is not enough for liberation. Likewise, focusing on racial and sexual inequalities without strong support for class struggle is not enough for liberation either, because capitalism needs to be done away with just as much as patriarchy or racism or any other form of oppression.

That's the difference here. Socialists and communists critique identity politics (as in "non-class-based politics") with the intention of showing how these struggles are just as important, not more or less important, as the class struggle and that we all need to be in solidarity together in an intersectional manner to create a truly egalitarian, leftist society. Unfortunately, some people (like the aforementioned "brocialists" who idealize rather than analyze the USSR and tend to think only about their [generally white, male] struggles) have picked up on the conservative use of the phrase. But liberals also tend to ignore the need for class struggle because they're capitalists and don't want to do away with the present economic system, just modify it. That's where the breakdown happens, because both sides have a different conception about what an egalitarian system should look like in the end.

It's not like this happened out of nowhere. The Democrats have slowly been abandoning the old working class alliance ever since the Reagan years while at the same time becoming more socially liberal, and it so it created a situation where they became a party more (rightfully) concerned with the needs of minorities and women, who they need as their base in the absence of white working class voters who switched to the GOP, but this had at the same time the effect of confirming the suspicions of a lot of leftists that the Dems are controlled by capitalists who will just pay lip service to the labor movement without really supporting it. Obviously things are more complex than that in reality, but that gets into different subjects, like working within the system (which liberals want) vs. revolutionizing the system (which socialists want), but that's the point. There's an internal tension between the older-style class-based left and the newer-style (I won't call it "identity" based since that's too simple) non-class-based left that needs to be resolved through solidarity. But as long as the Democratic party remains committed to capitalism I don't know how that will be possible.
 
H

Hindl

Member
benicillin said:
I more or less agree. I don't think anyone could say that Clinton isn't playing politics by playing up her alliance with Obama in the last few debates / town halls and trying to paint Bernie as some anti-Obama person, but on the other side the idea that a nominee would want to ally themselves with a very popular incumbent President is kind of obvious.

As is usual with Bernie he could have found a way to frame it better, even if I don't necessarily disagree with him.
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neurosisxeno said:
Still doesn't cite a source, but I get what Senator Sanders was saying. I think saying it was to court black voters is a bit of a mistake but I think he's just trying to (continually) dispel the narrative that Barrack Obama is immune to criticism. In the 2-3 debates I watched Clinton was always painting Sanders as someone who was bad for the Democratic Party because he had the audacity to criticize Obama.
Ah.
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While yes, Clinton is playing up the Obama connection for points, she is also campaigning as a kind of 3rd term Obama/protecting his legacy. In that regad, it makes perfect sense for her to argue and defend his record, since it's what she's basing her campaign on. I don't think it's just because he's popular, especially with the AA community, although that's a part of it
 
D

Diablos

Member
Toomey and McConnell now saying blocking Obama's nominee is... for the good of the nominee. 😂

I can't wait to vote against Toomey this year. He's not doing anything to help himself.
 
C

CCS

Banned
It's gonna be 7 here when the caucuses start. I'm going to be such a big fat mess by the time we start getting results that I could run Jeb's campaign.

EDIT: Apologies for the horrendous autocorrect.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Haley's endorsement of Rubio could give him just the boost that he needs. She's popular down there.

Watch Rubio win this. Comeback kid Rubio/Haley 2016 straight ballin Hillary goes to jail while we feel the BERN
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Diablos said:
Toomey and McConnell now saying blocking Obama's nominee is... for the good of the nominee. 😂

I can't wait to vote against Toomey this year. He's not doing anything to help himself.
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I really hope blue/purple state Republican senators perform extremely poorly this cycle, not just because I'm a Democrat but also to discourage this sort of obstruction in the future.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
So CNN just said that this is the first time two presidents and a pope has criticized a presidential candidate in one week. Thats kind of interesting lol
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I hate you carton_soldiers during election season. Just go take a fucking valium and chill out. Things will be fine*.

*hope you are a straight white fabulously rich male
 
U

User 463088

Banned
I'm going to be a big fat mess by the time the results come in. It's Saturday. I bought me some good vodka. I'ma be chill as all hell......praying that my girl manages to do what is her birth right. I need my queen to take what is rightfully hers from the Socialist Usurper.

We shall overcome!

We shall be victorious! Champagne pouring over us. All my friends are glorious! Tonight we are victorious.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Macho Madness said:
https://twitter.com/mviser/status/700779278019989504

At least Trump is honest about it.
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With an eye to November, we celebrate when Trump or Cruz wins.
With an eye to November, FreeRepublic celebrates when Bernie wins.

Sounds about right.

Still have no idea about tomorrow for the Dems.
..

Going with Irish Coffee again.

..

And I'm glad to see that others are seeing through Ralston's attention-whorish #WeMatter-I-Swear-Look-At-Us-PLEASE!!1! crap.

...

I originally misread OpinionSavvy as something else..
tumblr_mzie2lfTKL1sguo1so1_250.gif
 
M

Makai

Member
I'm actually not used to people freaking out about the election. Usually people are unreasonably confident that their guy will win.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Cybit said:
I bet Trump gets them to write a giant check to get him not to run. That would be the most glorious way to end his candidacy. He gets the RNC to write him like a 400 million dollar check or something.
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What's stopping him from holding a press-conference/stream, showing off this "check", ripping it in half during the broadcast, proclaiming he can't be bought and then saying he'll run 3rd party?

kirblar said:
Identity Politics is a thing though. It's when you try to leverage identity to get people to react in a certain way. The raw pay gap statistic is an example of this- the adjusted number is much closer (still lower, but a far smaller degree) but the bigger raw number is used in order to deliberately rile people up. This type of thing isn't restricted to the left either- the "war on Christmas" stuff is a clear example of identity politics in action as well.

The term is not bigoted just because people misuse it- people will misuse everything because people are dumb.
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kirblar said:
It's not, it's dismissed because it's exaggerated nonsense, which is where the identity politics label is appropriate.

The reason the raw wage gap is an example of this is because that raw wage gap will always be there. It's a boogeyman that will be there forever because of men/women having very different incentives in their 20s/30s regarding parenthood. It's not used as an accurate data point for discussion, it's used as a cudgel to try and drive activism.

The label is normally appropriate when things are being framed in a hyperbolic, adversarial way that's intended to mobilize people rather than to have an accurate discussion on the issue at hand.
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I've basically never seen someone use the term "Identity Politics" to be anything other than dismissive of the concerns of minority groups (or to note that such a behavior exists). As if majority groups aren't concerned with issues pertaining to how they identify themselves and its only the minority groups being "uppity". When people say shit like "oh noes the Dems should turn back Identity politics before they lose white votes" all I see is a call to dial back the fight for those minority groups as if their problems have been solved or are less important. If you want to argue people in general shouldn't be idiots or needlessly adversarial, I can get behind that. However, considering even reasonable discussion or advocacy of the rights of minority groups currently and in the past can rustle the jimmies of majority groups something fierce (shit we even see this on GAF), there's no real way to fight for the rights of minority groups that won't piss off some number of the majority group. As far as I can tell, the term "Identity Politics" has been flanderized to such a degree (similar to say SJW) that even if it might have descriptive value in some cases, I have to raise my eyebrows at anyone who uses it unironically.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Makai said:
Fashion show - best or worst date idea?
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Speaking of great date ideas, establishing a 0.03 percent Wall Street speculation fee, similar to what we had from 1914-1966, would dampen the dangerous level of speculation and gambling on Wall Street, encourage the financial sector to invest in the productive economy and reduce the deficit by more than $350 billion over 10 years. That would be a great date.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Y2Kev said:
Speaking of great date ideas, establishing a 0.03 percent Wall Street speculation fee, similar to what we had from 1914-1966, would dampen the dangerous level of speculation and gambling on Wall Street, encourage the financial sector to invest in the productive economy and reduce the deficit by more than $350 billion over 10 years. That would be a great date.
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Bernie , is that you ?
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Macho Madness said:
Washington Free Beacon is shite right?
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look at their front page

Hillary Clinton Refuses to Clearly Say She Has Not Lied to American People

Clinton Gets Booed at Democratic Town Hall

Morning Joe Panel Blasts Clinton For Not Releasing Transcripts of Speeches at Financial Firms

Morning Joe Panel Dumbfounded Hillary Clinton Leaving Nevada Before End of the Caucus

Hillary Clinton Wants to Be a Cool Kid

Morning Joe Panel Calls Clinton Campaign a ‘Trainwreck’
 
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