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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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G

geomon

Member
boiled goose said:
For me it's becoming a weird tradeoff between isolating myself to retain my productivity and sanity, or staying up to date and aware enough to do something and fight.
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We need to fight and we need everyone we can to do it. I know this shit is depressing and it gets worse everyday, but that's why we need you and everyone else not willing to put up with this shit.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
boiled goose said:
As expected, but for me personally the symptoms have been physical beyond even my mood and mental state.

Feeling heavy, constantly tired, no motivation, sleeping late, huge burden on shoulders, etc.

I was wondering why this week had felt so weird and awful.

Sucks.
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Welcome to the club. We all felt/feeling that way. Without neogaf I dont know how I would have coped.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
ampere said:
https://twitter.com/theonlyadult/status/799360529127055360

Too much truth



Feel the same way
Click to expand...

This is intellectually lazy as hell. The hatred Bernie is still receiving from certain folks baffles me.

If President Trump wants to pass a trillion dollar infrastructure bill...which liberals wouldn't vote for it? Obviously GOP leadership won't let that touch the floor but the point is that Sanders would not be compromising any of his views by working with Trump on ideologically liberal legislation. Whereas Obama did compromise by working with republicans on ideologically conservative proposals (Grand Bargain).
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
ampere said:
https://twitter.com/theonlyadult/status/799360529127055360

Too much truth

Feel the same way
Click to expand...

As I said in another thread, there is an argument to make against the Warren/Sanders strategy of working with Trump on right issues and against on bad stuff because it might give him political capital to do bad stuff. A fair concern.

That said, that's not the same as the compromising Obama did. Half here, half there is different from yes here, no there.

Agree or disagree with approach, Sanders is not being inconsistent..

RustyNails said:
Welcome to the club. We all felt/feeling that way. Without neogaf I dont know how I would have coped.
Click to expand...

Unlike You NeoGAF contributes to my frustrations haha. Just don't have many other outlets.
 
J

Joe

Member
Do you think 'drain the swamp' was actually a white-nationalost dog-whistle? Because I'm starting to think it is. Along with 'make the trains run on time'.

Im starting to worry that these are intentional dog-whistles and these guys really are who we think they are.


From Mother Jones' article about white nationalists attachment to Trump:
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-hate-groups-neo-nazi-white-supremacist-racism
Trump had done the politically unthinkable—and then he doubled down, declining to delete the tweet (which remains live as of this publication) and asking rhetorically on Fox News, "Am I gonna check every statistic?" Even when Bill O'Reilly urged him, "Don't put your name on stuff like this," Trump didn't back down, saying, "It came from sources that are very credible, what can I tell you."

"I don't know how much more explicit you can get," said James Edwards, host of The Political Cesspool, a radio program that the Southern Poverty Law Center calls racist and anti-Semitic. "I mean, what other candidate would do that?
Click to expand...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Joe said:
Do you think 'drain the swamp' was actually a white-nationalost dog-whistle? Because I'm starting to think it is. Along with 'make the trains run on time'.

Im starting to worry that these are intentional dog-whistles and these guys really are who we think they are.


From Mother Jones' article about white nationalists attachment to Trump:
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-hate-groups-neo-nazi-white-supremacist-racism
Click to expand...
With Bannon on board, everything is a dog whistle. Or a train whistle.
 
K

kirblar

Member
RustyNails said:
With Bannon on board, everything is a dog whistle. Or a train whistle.
Click to expand...
Or a tea whistle

JCPenneyHitlerTeapot.jpg
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Cesare Borgia said:
This is intellectually lazy as hell. The hatred Bernie is still receiving from certain folks baffles me.

If President Trump wants to pass a trillion dollar infrastructure bill...which liberals wouldn't vote for it? Obviously GOP leadership won't let that touch the floor but the point is that Sanders would not be compromising any of his views by working with Trump on ideologically liberal legislation. Whereas Obama did compromise by working with republicans on ideologically conservative proposals (Grand Bargain).
Click to expand...

Uhh, I think every liberal should be against Trump's infrastructure plan.

It privatizes almost all roads and allows Trump to funnel a huge amount of money into his own businesses.

Dems shouldn't pass an infrastructure plan unless they know that Trump can't steal the money.

edit: OTOH, you could argue that it would be helpful for an infrastructure bill to pass in which Trump stole a bunch of money because that would be helpful to lower Trump's approval ratings.
 
V

VRMN

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Uhh, I think every liberal should be against Trump's infrastructure plan.

It privatizes almost all roads and allows Trump to funnel a huge amount of money into his own businesses.

Dems shouldn't pass an infrastructure plan unless they know that Trump can't steal the money.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between endorsing his plan as it is and being willing to work on infrastructure as something that needs to be done. Sanders has done the latter and should not be criticized as though he's done the former.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I will say that the DNC immediately needs to be contacting potential 2020 contenders to not take a stance on free trade for the next few years.

If Trump's trade wars cause a recession then it's going to look dumb as fuck to be against free trade in the primaries.

(Spoilers: Trump's trade wars are going to be very bad for Sherrod Brown's primary chances)
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
I guess after a week I'm over it as much as I can be. As some of you may know I have decided to take a long absence from PoliGAF. All of 2017 and will return sometime in 2018.

*Final thoughts*

Every has said what I was going to say about the campaign, it's misteps, mistakes etc. All we can do now is move forward. We have great opportunities next year and beyond. This coming administration is going to be a train-wreck the Nixon White House would look clean in comparison. If we're lucky opportunities will arise for us to take advantage of it in the next midterm if history is any guide. Democrats need to be united and ready to take on these challenges.

DNC: Have no problems with Ellison but I wish he was full-time

Supreme Court: Best case Scalia is only replaced and the rest survive through the next D admin hopefully in 2021

2018: Many open governorships to take. Trump backlash making life a little easier for the 5 red state D's and 5 swing state D's senators. House maybe in play or not.

Conway, Bannon, Flynn and the other Trump lackeys: Avoid the news as much as possible.

Trump Cabinet: a Train wreck so far. Confirmation hearings are going to be a joke. Half of them won't make it. I take it the SC nomination is going to be a trainwreck too.

2020: no thoughts. Want to get through 2018 first.
Click to expand...
 
H

Holmes

Member
I'm sad to see some regulars leave but I get it. I got a second wind. I'm just annoyed whenever I decide to pop into this thread and people are arguing whether to call Sanders Satan or to suck his dick. Really over that and I know there's not much (good things) to talk about but I'd rather discussion move to something better.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Holmes said:
I'm sad to see some regulars leave but I get it. I got a second wind. I'm just annoyed whenever I decide to pop into this thread and people are arguing whether to call Sanders Satan or to suck his dick. Really over that and I know there's not much (good things) to talk about but I'd rather discussion move to something better.
Click to expand...

I'm coming to the conclusion the Cult of Sanders are not going to quit, and i'm just going to leave the board altogether.

I have to argue enough with Trump supporters, I don't have to argue with Sanders supporters stuck in an alternate universe where Sanders won the primary.

I'll probably write one last final conclusion post, and if at that time we have not moved on back into reality, i'm gone.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
excelsiorlef said:
https://newrepublic.com/article/138...ory-college-educated-whites-not-working-class

Not gonna quote it as it's rather short but it is a good piece offering something different than the WWC.
Click to expand...

The voters Clinton really lost—the ones she was targeting and relying on for victory—were college-educated whites. Most polling suggested she would win these voters, but she didn’t, according to exit polls: White men went 63 percent for Trump versus 31 percent for Clinton, and white women went 53-43 percent. Among college-educated whites, only 39 percent of men and 51 percent of women voted for Clinton.

Clinton’s strategy made sense. Trump’s negatives among this group, which normally leans Republican (Romney won them by six points), were pretty high in polling. What’s more, these people hadn’t suffered under Obama; they’d thrived. The kind of change Trump was espousing wasn’t supposed to connect with this group. A massive Gallup study in August revealed that the typical Trump supporter has “not been disproportionately affected by foreign trade or immigration. The results suggest that his supporters, on average, do not have lower incomes than other Americans, nor are they more likely to be unemployed.”
Click to expand...

Clinton thought the majority of the general population was morally good enough that Fucktard Trump would be a bridge too far to vote for. A very reasonable assumption, and one that would have helped take the senate back.

Those morals obviously did not preclude them from voting for him.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
boiled goose said:
So.. apparently post election depression is a real thing.
Click to expand...

My wife was on a long weekend, and I went totally to seed without her support. When I was younger, I believe I had mild undiagnosed depression. This weekend was like a time warp to my late teens/early twenties. I had the symptoms you've described.

Generally I am a happy, optimistic, engaged person.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Suikoguy said:
Clinton thought the majority of the general population was morally good enough that Fucktard Trump would be a bridge too far to vote for. A very reasonable assumption, and one that would have helped take the senate back.

Those morals obviously did not preclude them from voting for him.
Click to expand...


Yup.

She thought Trump was Goldwater
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Suikoguy said:
Clinton thought the majority of the general population was morally good enough that Fucktard Trump would be a bridge too far to vote for. A very reasonable assumption, and one that would have helped take the senate back.

Those morals obviously did not preclude them from voting for him.
Click to expand...

Came to this conclusion a few days ago. The fundamental fuckup here that caused the rest of the fuckups to happen is that the Clinton campaign underestimated just how prone America is to fearmongering. She said it herself:

"America is great because America is good."
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
excelsiorlef said:
Yup.

She thought Trump was Goldwater
Click to expand...

Yeah

One could point overseas, but we don't have a recent influx of immigrants, and our economy is doing much better than average internationally.

It's as if Trump created an alternate reality that he convinced people they are actually living in.
 
A

And_Gignac

Member
Holmes said:
I'm sad to see some regulars leave but I get it. I got a second wind. I'm just annoyed whenever I decide to pop into this thread and people are arguing whether to call Sanders Satan or to suck his dick. Really over that and I know there's not much (good things) to talk about but I'd rather discussion move to something better.
Click to expand...

I'd suck Satan's dick tho.

Hi Holmes.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
The interesting thing for me is how effective the Clinton campaign was in making Trump seems completely incapable of doing the job. People despise him and don't think he is ready for the job,but they voted for him anyway.
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
boiled goose said:
For me it's becoming a weird tradeoff between isolating myself to retain my productivity and sanity, or staying up to date and aware enough to do something and fight.
Click to expand...
This is me. My dad took a new job and now I'm doing my job and his. The Friday after the election was his last day, and now I'm at a point where I can freak out about politics, or I can dig into my new responsibilities and try to keep this business afloat. I've opted to put my head in the sand.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Obama coming in with some real talk about the future of the Dem Party. I took this from the OT about this interview:

“So this notion somehow that these irreversible tides have been unleashed, I think, surrenders our agency. It’s easier than us saying, Huh, we missed that, we messed that up, we’ve got to do better in how we organize. We have to stop relying on a narrow targeting of our base turnout strategy if we want to govern. . . . Setting aside the results of this election, Democrats are well positioned to keep winning Presidential elections just by appealing to the base. And, each year, the demographic improves.”

To put it more bluntly than Obama did, the nonwhite percentage of the population will continue to increase. “But we’ll keep on getting gridlock just because of population distribution in this country,” he went on. “As long as California and Wyoming have the same number of senators, there’s going to be a problem—unless we’re able to have a broader conversation and move people who right now aren’t voting for progressive policies and candidates. . . . All of this requires vigilance in protecting gains we’ve made, but a sense, yes, of equanimity, a sense of purposeful calm and optimism, and a sense of humor—sometimes gallows humor after results like the ones we just had. That’s how ultimately the race is won.”
Click to expand...

The interview goes deep into what the last week has been for Obama, his White House and what he thinks about the future of the country.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893
Another hot take.

This is kind of a shocking indictment of the US media.
CxRW_8sUAAAGBto.png


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/20/magazine/donald-trumps-america-iowa-race.html
Also, while this is just an anecdote it reflects a racism and racial anxiety that isn't Sieg Heils (but is still pretty awful.)
Gretchen Douglas is a corrections officer from Marshalltown. The 53-year-old had been a Democrat her entire adult life and describes herself as a social liberal and fiscal conservative. She’s a supporter of unions and gay rights and abortion rights and said she doesn’t want to breathe dirty air. She proudly talked of her daughter’s success as a chemist, mentioning that not long ago the only options for women were teaching and nursing. She holds a degree in accounting and can tell you exactly the share of the national debt she and her husband carry.

Even as the recession caused Iowa to shed hundreds of state jobs, Douglas managed to hold onto hers. But in 2012, for the first time in her life, she registered as a Republican, and last week she voted for Trump. Douglas told me she had switched parties because she felt Obama had been irresponsible with spending, causing the national debt to soar. She said Democrats were spending too much on social programs for people who did not need them.

....

Douglas never mentioned race, but polls including a recent one of Trump supporters have shown that white Americans’ support for entitlement programs declines if they think black people are benefiting. And the longer Douglas talked, the more she revealed other reasons she had voted for Trump.

When Obama was elected, she hoped he would “bridge race relations, to help people in the middle of Iowa” see that black people “are decent hardworking people who want the same things that we want.” She said people in rural Iowa often don’t know many black people and unfairly stereotype them. But Obama really turned her off when after a vigilante killed a black teenager named Trayvon Martin, he said the boy could have been his son. She felt as if Obama was choosing a side in the racial divide, stirring up tensions. And then came the death of Michael Brown, shot by a policeman in Ferguson, Mo.

“I’m not saying that the struggles of black Americans aren’t real,” Douglas told me, “but I feel like the Michael Brown incident was violence against the police officer.”
Click to expand...
It seems like an eternity ago when Clinton gave a speech about implicit racism. Confronting it in ourselves. I can't remember if people applauded. But reading this it seems a bridge too far for parts of white America.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
It always bugged me that tiny state like idaho gets two senators who have equal footing as two senators from freaking Cali. I'm pleased that Obama also thinks its fucking stupid. Wonder why the constitution thinks this is such a great idea. Same deal with electoral college. States are meaningless boundaries. Whatever happened to majority?
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
shinra-bansho said:
http://electionado.com/canvas/1479173071893
Another hot take.

This is kind of a shocking indictment of the US media.
CxRW_8sUAAAGBto.png


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/20/magazine/donald-trumps-america-iowa-race.html
Also, while this is just an anecdote it reflects a racism and racial anxiety that isn't Sieg Heils (but is still pretty awful.)

It seems like an eternity ago when Clinton gave a speech about implicit racism. Confronting it in ourselves. I can't remember if people applauded. But reading this it seems a bridge too far for parts of white America.
Click to expand...

Our media is trash. We all argue over a lot in this thread, but I really think we can all agree on that.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
RustyNails said:
It always bugged me that tiny state like idaho gets two senators who have equal footing as two senators from freaking Cali. I'm pleased that Obama also thinks its fucking stupid. Wonder why the constitution thinks this is such a great idea. Same deal with electoral college. States are meaningless boundaries. Whatever happened to majority?
Click to expand...

It's ancient and population was more spread out. They seemingly never considered the densification of people in specfic geographical areas.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
RustyNails said:
It always bugged me that tiny state like idaho gets two senators who have equal footing as two senators from freaking Cali. I'm pleased that Obama also thinks its fucking stupid. Wonder why the constitution thinks this is such a great idea. Same deal with electoral college. States are meaningless boundaries. Whatever happened to majority?
Click to expand...

They were afraid the not slave holding cities would overthrow the great southern (and heavily rural) institution just by having more people.

All problems in the Constitution are either

1. Paranoia about a monarchy seizing power again
2. Relics of roundabout ways to protect slavery
 
P

Pyroclastic

Banned
boiled goose said:
So.. apparently post election depression is a real thing.
Click to expand...

damn right it is. I've been severely depressed before, but after the 2015 election I was in a manic depressive state. there was other weird stuff that I ended up fixating on at the time (I have no idea how I didn't go full blown mad, that shit tormented me for months) that didn't help but it was a major factor.

It's driven me this year to try and improve the parts of my life that governments can't fuck with (yet) and while my life is still an utter shambles overall I feel like I'm on the path to happiness more than I've been in my entire adult life so far.

You'll get through it bud.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Just had a conversation with a PA Trump voter at work and I think I got some seeds of doubt planted in him. He knows I like politics so he came up to me and asked what I thought about the protests. I told him I think they're good and that people are expressing their fears. He told me he heard they were paid off and I told him to be careful about fake news sources and showed him the WaPo article about the fake news guy admitting he posted fake ads for protestors on Craigslist, which surprised him. Gave him some more examples of fake news and what he has too ok out for. We talked about cabinet appointments and he thought that some of them were bad but really wants Trey Gowdy to be AG to take down Crooked Hillary. I told him how the emails and Benghazi were overblown and gave some reasons and he was, again, surprised about the Comey/Wikileaks/Russia stuff.

He told me he thinks Trump won because people are disgusted with Hillary's corruption and I went on for a while about why it was the Rust Belt in particular that lost it for her. I avoided talking about race since he didn't bring it up, but I would have to have been careful about that since I'm at work. He agreed that it was those states that caused her to lose because "NAFTA is the worst trade deal ever and she called it the gold standard". I spent like 15 minutes after that telling him how NAFTA actually works, why the job losses are more related to automation and somewhat China, and how the jobs won't come back and UBI is needed. I am sure you will also be happy to know that I did NOT PROPOSE COMMUNISM as a solution because I didn't want to scare him off, but I did explain how we need something like UBI because businesses are privately owned and people will continue to become more desperate as jobs are automated away without a replacement since they can't control the capital. He asked me for more info on UBI and said he'd look into it and seemed genuinely troubled by some of the stuff I told him about Trump's positions and how it will be difficult anyway with much of the GOP being against his economics.

So we'll see how that goes. His absolute reliance on talking points was very telling though.
 
T

teiresias

Member
I can't even watch episodes of Star Trek: TNG anymore, because it's obvious humans are and always will be utter assholes to one another, and heaven forbid this planet ever have to deal with facing the revelation that completely alien civilations exist that aren't even from this planet. The deplorables would be extra salty then.
 
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