Every few pages everyone forgets they're both losers.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Every few pages everyone forgets they're both losers.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Beginning to think that maybe Bernie voters are/were a bit politically naive. What a revelation.
Honestly don't understand the people blaming Hillary for not unifying the party. If you can't look past the figurehead and see the moral, ethical and social policies that are the Democratic Party's causes, then that speaks to an inability to be a) politically pragmatic, and b) look past the cult of celebrity.
You know why people keep on saying that Republicans come home? Because they vote on fucking party policies. Trump has proven this.
You know why people keep on saying that Republicans come home? Because they vote on fucking party policies. Trump has proven this.
The electors who are going to vote for him most likely WANT to anyway, they are party selected electors.When you have the fucking choice between letting Trump win and not letting him win you don't get to absolve yourself for choosing to let him win.
2017, you can only go up.
I admire your optimism.
sturgboski
Member
We have a FAITHLESS ELECTOR IN MINNESOTA. Hillary will only receive 9 votes from Minnesota. The 1 faithless vote for Bernie Sanders won't count.
Edit: removed what I said out of anger so as to not risk a ban.
Seriously, get over the "I wanted Bernie" shit and move on. So what Hillary was not Bernie, that is who you should have voted for and we would have prevented this farce of a presidency we are getting. But no, what this election has proven is Democrats are a bunch of idealistic children who cant see the big picture. Rather than vote to prevent the upending of everything their hero Bernie has fought for and continues to support, they decided "fuck it, I am either not voting or voting for a party who can and will never win, that will show everyone for not picking Bernie." Good job folks!
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
This is why it's my hope that both Bernie and Hillary keep very low profiles leading up to 2020. We need a clean break from this primary without new candidates acting as vessels for prior ones, and supporters seeking to revisit old battles.
This is where I'm at too. They both need to wash their hands of 2016 and let the rest of the party decide what to do going forward. I don't have much faith that will happen though. With the way people are still sniping at each other it seems that anything less than a railroaded anointment of whatever the populist wing wants will lead to more infighting.
The phrase I want to use isn't appropriate because it doesn't apply to all of them and would probably get me banned as wellBeginning to think that maybe Bernie voters are/were a bit politically naive. What a revelation.
whyamihere
Banned
This is why it's my hope that both Bernie and Hillary keep very low profiles leading up to 2020. We need a clean break from this primary without new candidates acting as vessels for prior ones, and supporters seeking to revisit old battles.
THEY ARE LOSERS WHO WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT
I don't understand the need for a running count?
There is no rebellion. Trump was always, always going to win at this stage. Any idea or thought that he might not is not grounded in reality at all. He is the next president.
It's important, I suppose. Just to mark things down and whatnot, in case some people were really getting their hopes up.
Ironically, Texas will put him over.
Androidsleeps
Member
240 for trump...it's happening really happening
And_Gignac
Member
Bernie and Clinton are not the problem. The cult of personality that BOTH created isn't the problem
There's an ideological rift within the left that the Democratic Party, as the sole option for those who reject reactonaries, conservativism and all right wing social politics, can barely contain.
There's an ideological rift within the left that the Democratic Party, as the sole option for those who reject reactonaries, conservativism and all right wing social politics, can barely contain.
aspiegamer
Member
The alternative top news story to the electors is the assassination in Turkey. Kill me.
The alternative top news story to the electors is the assassination in Turkey. Kill me.
What is the problem with this? To be frank the electors shouldn't be a story at all.
metalslimer
Member
The alternative top news story to the electors is the assassination in Turkey. Kill me.
Soon to be replaced by Germany if it turns out that was an attack
What is the problem with this? To be frank the electors shouldn't be a story at all.
It shouldn't be, but people are making money of it and have made it a story hoping for the results to be overturned and throw the country into Civil War.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Bernie and Clinton are not the problem. The cult of personality that BOTH created isn't the problem
There's an ideological rift within the left that the Democratic Party, as the sole option for those who reject reactonaries, conservativism and all right wing social politics, can barely contain.
This is certainly a way to absolve Bernie and his supporters of any fault.
whyamihere
Banned
we shouldn't even have electors, they should just be automatic votes
And_Gignac
Member
This is certainly a way to absolve Bernie and his supporters of any fault.
And what about Clint...ugh, whatever. Over IT tbh. 🙄
minor effort
Banned
Bernie and Clinton are not the problem. The cult of personality that BOTH created isn't the problem
There's an ideological rift within the left that the Democratic Party, as the sole option for those who reject reactonaries, conservativism and all right wing social politics, can barely contain.
Perhaps, but the divide between their respective supporters wasn't based purely on ideology. For you it might have been, but many in the Democratic side are vulnerable to "hero worship" for lack of a better term.
I'd rather hash out and try to repair the ideological divide without treating 2020 like a "rematch" of the Bernie and Clinton diehards of the party. Many of them are still simply too caught up in the candidates themselves.
When I say I worry about 2020 candidates being "vessels", I don't mean them representing two distinct ideological wings of the party. I mean I worry about treating 2020 candidates as vessels for Bernie and Hillary themselves.
aspiegamer
Member
There's no surprise or shock in it, no, but to me as a political weirdo I know it's the vote that actually "counts" and ends the 0.000001% chance of anything going against Trump. Today is the day you can officially say there's no going back, which is a literal "day that will live in infamy" thing of Americans failing to protect their own Constitution.What is the problem with this? To be frank the electors shouldn't be a story at all.
Ugh.Soon to be replaced by Germany if it turns out that was an attack
Valdfellgar
Banned
This is certainly a way to absolve Bernie and his supporters of any fault.
It's going to take a bit before everyone is willing to admit whatever part of the blame lays with them. Bernie Supporters, Hillary Supporters, Bernie himself, Hillary herself. Everyone could've done something else, something more, or something different to prevent this. Anyone looking for a catharsis in seeing whoever they pin the most blame on realizing it is likely in for disappointment, but it's a revelation that'll probably happen quietly for a lot of people, particularly as Trump and his damage becomes more and more real. Bigger enemy and all that. Trump will probably be the best slap in the face/unifying enemy Democrats have had in a long while.
whyamihere
Banned
@joshledermanAP
AUGUSTA, Maine (AP) - Maine Democratic elector casts vote for U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders for president instead of Hillary Clinton
Bernie is also the first Jewish person to receive an electoral vote.
This is certainly a way to absolve Bernie and his supporters of any fault.
This is what they wanted man. These people never cared about the election or politics, it was all a game to them, and when their guy lost it fair and square, they whined about the refs and tried to change the rules. Now that Hillary lost, after the initial schadenfreude wore off, they are trying to rationalize away their role in this outcome. Pure selfishness.
Sirpopopop
Member
Perhaps, but the divide between their respective supporters wasn't based purely on ideology. For you it might have been, but many in the Democratic side are vulnerable to "hero worship" for lack of a better term.
I'd rather hash out and try to repair the ideological divide without treating 2020 like a "rematch" of the Bernie and Clinton diehards of the party. Many of them are still simply too caught up in the candidates themselves.
When I say I worry about 2020 candidates being "vessels", I don't mean them representing two distinct ideological wings of the party. I mean I worry about treating 2020 candidates as vessels for Bernie and Hillary themselves.
No.
Clinton supporters are very much about the party. In 2008, after a bitterly contested primary, they voted Democrat. They understood that Party comes first.
Sanders supporters aren't the same. They are about Bernie, first and foremost. Then, Tulsi Gabbard. It's not about policies. It's about who supports Bernie.
This isn't an ideological divide. Saying it is, just excuses and papers over the damage Bernie supporters did.
It's going to take a bit before everyone is willing to admit whatever part of the blame lays with them. Bernie Supporters, Hillary Supporters, Bernie himself, Hillary herself. Everyone could've done something else, something more, or something different to prevent this.
No, I won't take any blame. I do not deserve any blame. Stop saying I need to shoulder some of the responsibility. I will shoulder it in 2020 when I vote against the Sanders wing, when everyone else capitulates and gives them what they want. I do not need to take any blame in 2016.
whyamihere
Banned
Seems like the Maine EV for Bernie was replaced.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
And what about Clint...ugh, whatever. Over IT tbh. 🙄
Are you? You're one of the people who keeps bringing up the primary any chance you get.
It's going to take a bit before everyone is willing to admit whatever part of the blame lays with them. Bernie Supporters, Hillary Supporters, Bernie himself, Hillary herself. Everyone could've done something else, something more, or something different to prevent this. Anyone looking for a catharsis in seeing whoever they pin the most blame on realizing it is likely in for disappointment, but it's a revelation that'll probably happen quietly for a lot of people, particularly as Trump and his damage becomes more and more real. Bigger enemy and all that. Trump will probably be the best slap in the face/unifying enemy Democrats have had in a long while.
Yup. If we assume the polarisation of politics will continue, possibly getting worse before it gets better, then Trump should unify the following behind the Dems:
A large portion of the youth, unable to vote now, but seeing the damage wrought by Trump.
Immigrants.
Women.
Feminists of both genders.
LGBTQ.
Jews.
African-Americans, and maybe more Hispanics than the 2016 election (depending upon how Trump's administration scapegoats them).
(Obviously, outliers on some of those groups, for instance Evanagelical women won't vote Dem, but they never would)
whyamihere
Banned
CO faithless elector has been thrown out and replaced.
Valdfellgar
Banned
No, I won't take any blame. I do not deserve any blame. Stop saying I need to shoulder some of the responsibility. I will shoulder it in 2020 when I vote against the Sanders wing, when everyone else capitulates and gives them what they want. I do not need to take any blame in 2016.
So, what're you going to do in 2020 if, say, the Sanders Wing wins? Are you going to rally against Trump and vote for their candidate come the general or do exactly as some did this year?
And I can't really refute you so I don't know you, but blaming the blame game, and tossing it back and forth isn't going to get us anywhere. We have to unify, because if we don't then 2020 is a wash, 2024 is a wash and it'll continue to be a wash.
minor effort
Banned
No.
Clinton supporters are very much about the party. In 2008, after a bitterly contested primary, they voted Democrat. They understood that Party comes first.
Sanders supporters aren't the same. They are about Bernie, first and foremost. Then, Tulsi Gabbard. It's not about policies. It's about who supports Bernie.
This isn't an ideological divide. Saying it is, just excuses and papers over the damage Bernie supporters did.
I understand what you're saying, and I still have a wellspring of anger and frustration at anyone who voiced a preference in the 2016 primary battle and then didn't show up to vote, and that includes a huge amount of former Bernie supporters.
But just because somebody didn't show up this year I don't want to spend the next four constantly throwing it back in their faces. The damage is done. Where do we go from here?
Hopefully just because somebody abstained from voting, voted Jill Stein, or wrote-in a candidate doesn't make them lost to the Democratic Party forever. But constantly reminding them of their failure at every opportunity could.
It's the former. They were given unprecedented concessions and still never gave a shit.
are there turnout statistics that support this claim?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
67% of republicans want to keep the electoral college instead of replacing it with a popular vote.
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/1219-abolish-the-electoral-college-majority-favors-popular-vote/
How do republicans have such bad views about everything. Don't they know the EC could just as easily go against them next time?
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/1219-abolish-the-electoral-college-majority-favors-popular-vote/
How do republicans have such bad views about everything. Don't they know the EC could just as easily go against them next time?
Sirpopopop
Member
So, what're you going to do in 2020 if, say, the Sanders Wing wins? Are you going to rally against Trump and vote for their candidate come the general or do exactly as some did this year?
And I can't really refute you so I don't know you, but blaming the blame game, and tossing it back and forth isn't going to get us anywhere. We have to unify, because if we don't then 2020 is a wash, 2024 is a wash and it'll continue to be a wash.
As I said before: It's over.
We permanently lost on climate change. We've lost on the Supreme Court.
For me, I can't afford to lose my party to nutjobs with no firm policy beliefs beyond, "If you support Bernie Sanders you are acceptable."
Barring a miracle where there is a chance we can change the Court in 2020-2024, that will be my primary concern.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Really wonderful we're all relitigating the primary again. Really useful fights going forward.
Until the democratic side actually comes together in a compromise over the issues of the last election and straightens things out, the fights will continue. It's a rational process.
Republicans ALWAYS compromise with each other. Always. Democrats don't, for some reason, and pay the price.
67% of republicans want to keep the electoral college instead of replacing it with a popular vote.
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/1219-abolish-the-electoral-college-majority-favors-popular-vote/
How do republicans have such bad views about everything. Don't they know the EC could just as easily go against them next time?
You'll never replace the Electoral College. The states will never give up that kind of power.
Valdfellgar
Banned
I understand what you're saying, and I still have a wellspring of anger and frustration at anyone who voiced a preference in the 2016 primary battle and then didn't show up to vote, and that includes a huge amount of former Bernie supporters.
But just because somebody didn't show up this year I don't want to spend the next four constantly throwing it back in their faces. The damage is done. Where do we go from here?
Hopefully just because somebody abstained from voting, voted Jill Stein, or wrote-in a candidate doesn't make them lost to the Democratic Party forever. But constantly reminding them of their failure at every opportunity could.
Yep. You'll only push these people away rather than get them back into the fold an to rally against Trump. It's important to make people feel like democrats have the greatest chance to end Trump's reign of terror, rather than increasingly seeking out another option. And maybe for some people that means biting the bullet and getting along with people you feel sickened with
This does not mean kowtowing to racism and letting overtly racist individuals get away with it.
Sirpopopop
Member
I understand what you're saying, and I still have a wellspring of anger and frustration at anyone who voiced a preference in the 2016 primary battle and then didn't show up to vote, and that includes a huge amount of former Bernie supporters.
But just because somebody didn't show up this year I don't want to spend the next four constantly throwing it back in their faces. The damage is done. Where do we go from here?
Hopefully just because somebody abstained from voting, voted Jill Stein, or wrote-in a candidate doesn't make them lost to the Democratic Party forever. But constantly reminding them of their failure at every opportunity could.
I will fight as long as Sanders supporters continue to do the following:
1. Blame Hillary for Trump.
2. Blame the Democratic Party.
3. Then maybe start looking at Trump.
4. Continue to handwave away Russia. Instead pivot to blaming Hillary.
I'm not going to reach across the aisle when they continually want to rub dirt in the faces of people who put Party first. This is about saving the Democratic Party. Working with Sanders folks the way they think now isn't saving the party. You are replacing ideals with pure hero-worship. You are doubling down on the mistakes of Obama's caretaking of the DNC. It's why "I'm anyone but Keith Ellison" for the Chair. It's why I suspect Obama feels the same way.
How many times has the candidate who won the popular vote had a faithless elector?
Quite a few President-elects died between winning and the Electoral College. So I imagine quite a few
whyamihere
Banned
Until the democratic side actually comes together in a compromise over the issues of the last election and straightens things out, the fights will continue. It's a rational process.
Republicans ALWAYS compromise with each other. Always. Democrats don't, for some reason, and pay the price.
No, this is not a rational process. This is the stupidest kind of finger pointing that accomplishes nothing.
Huh? Who mentioned Tulsi Gabbard? Where's the receipts for "a significant amount of Bernie supporters are throwing their weight behind Tulsi Gabbard"?Sanders supporters aren't the same. They are about Bernie, first and foremost. Then, Tulsi Gabbard. It's not about policies. It's about who supports Bernie.
Sirpopopop
Member
Huh? Who mentioned Tulsi Gabbard? Where's the receipts for "a significant amount of Bernie supporters are throwing their weight behind Tulsi Gabbard"?
Check Reddit for starters. She's got a nice little fan following there. Hell, check betting markets as well.
Then, I can certainly look at non-Neogaf message boards. Namely, anywhere else I frequent.
You know there is support for this if Bernie doesn't run in 2020. This is just playing cute.
Huh? Who mentioned Tulsi Gabbard? Where's the receipts for "a significant amount of Bernie supporters are throwing their weight behind Tulsi Gabbard"?
Tulsi Gabbard seems like Presidential material to me...in 8-12 years after the DNC reforms themselves a bit.
minor effort
Banned
Yep. You'll only push these people away rather than get them back into the fold an to rally against Trump. It's important to make people feel like democrats have the greatest chance to end Trump's reign of terror, rather than increasingly seeking out another option. And maybe for some people that means biting the bullet and getting along with people you feel sickened with. But enemy of my enemy and all that.This does not mean kowtowing to racism and letting overtly racist individuals get away with it.
Exactly. If we have to try to bridge the divide with people to form a coalition to win in 2020, I'd still far prefer working to make an appeal to Bernie or Busters than neonazis.
I'm not going to do your job for you. This sounds like anecdotal bullshit.Check Reddit for starters. She's got a nice little fan following there.
Then, I can certainly look at non-Neogaf message boards. Namely, anywhere else I frequent.
also where's the voter turnout data showing that a large portion of bernie supporters in the primary didn't show up?
Tulsi Gabbard seems like Presidential material to me...in 8-12 years after the DNC reforms themselves a bit.
Why do you think she's presidential material?
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