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[nature boy]

Absolutely pathetic what some "Democratic" electors are doing.

Fucking idiots.

Outside of the Texas guy, no one has rejected Trump? He's been normalized.

 

[FyreWulff]

Absolutely pathetic what some "Democratic" electors are doing.

Fucking idiots.

Outside of the Texas guy, no one has rejected Trump? He's been normalized.

Should show people how scarily good the Republicans are getting everybody to vote party ticket as a solid block. Democrats are still herding cats

 

[Dr. Worm]

Can you imagine if these fucks did this in a squeaker where she won by 4-5 electoral votes?

I doubt they would.

If anything, it'd be demoralized Republicans making showy gestures of righteousness in that scenario.

 

[jtb]

as a washingtonian: embarassing, pathetic, utterly indefensible. (also: infuriating)

 

[Odrion]

Has this EC defection happen with any other democratic presidential candidates in the past several decades?

 

[studyguy]

If you want to try to make things better, attend your local DNC meetings and get in touch with people in your area. Don't let this thread get to you, a lot of people are in this defeatist funk and are bitter towards the one contingent of the democratic party that seem eager to do something right now. The DNC is in a real weakened and defeated state, but people are working towards rebuilding and revitalizing it.

I already do and volunteered this last go of it. Will do so again for midterms, but then again I'm out here in CA so it's mostly me preaching to the choir.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Has this EC defection happen with any other democratic presidential candidates in the past several decades?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector#List_of_faithless_electors

 

[Wilsongt]

"Now that the Charlotte ordinance has been repealed, the expectation of privacy in our showers, bathrooms and locker rooms is restored and protected under previous state law. Governor McCrory has always publicly advocated a repeal of the overreaching Charlotte ordinance. But those efforts were always blocked by Jennifer Roberts, Roy Cooper and other Democratic activists," McCrory spokesman Graham Wilson said in a Monday statement. "This sudden reversal with little notice after the gubernatorial election sadly proves this entire issue originated by the political left was all about politics and winning the governor’s race at the expense of Charlotte and our entire state. As promised, Governor McCrory will call a special session."

I can't. I am so over this country and our elected officials right now.

 

[mo60]

Tulsi is not someone I want to represent the democratic party in the future.I also don't think the democrats need to move signficantly to the left to win a presidential election again. I think someone more in the mold of Rachel Notley or Justin trudeau(i.e. someone young, hip and pretty awesome) is who I want to be the next democratic presidential nominee.

I can't. I am so over this country and our elected officials right now.

I don't believe McCroy since him and his party were the ones that created and sign that bill in the first place that included that ordinance.

 

[Odrion]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector#List_of_faithless_electors

It has looked like it quadrupled with Hillary.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Can you imagine if these fucks did this in a squeaker where she won by 4-5 electoral votes?

They wouldn't. They're only doing this because she lost and they can afford to throw their vote away.

I have friends that *still* complain about it, ignoring that if all super delegates had done this, that Clinton would have still won handily. It drives me crazy.

Ironic because all I would ever hear during the primary was that Sanders would be the nominee if not for the superdelegates, but then suddenly the numbers come in and now they want to cheat. Like you're not mad about the principle, you're mad because you lost.

 

[Wilsongt]

Between this election, being depressed, being in a holding pattern over personal matters, and just being utterly lonely, I dunno if I want to scream loudly, or dig a hole and live underground eating chips all day.

 

[Odrion]

the true heroes in our darkest hour

oh and

well, can't help but laugh now. boy are things fucked up

 

[mo60]

Edit: Never mind. Never recognized that was an actual person.

 

[whyamihere]

@secstatewa
.@secstatewa Wyman will enforce "faithless" elector law, which provides for civil penalty of up to $1,000. Working w/ @AGOWA on process.

Good.

An elector actually voted for an eagle. LMAO.

No. That is a person. Jesus fucking christ guys.

 

[KingBroly]

An elector actually voted for an eagle. What?

I'm more surprised at 3 people voting for Powell. The one guy is a Native American who wants protection of his tribe's land.


And Trump is at 268 now. Just waiting on Texas.

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1OyJAAzrgabJb#

 

[studyguy]

the true heroes in our darkest hour

We are truly in the strangest timeline.
Juggalos holding strong fueled by righteousness and Faygo.

 

[ImpracticalPassword]

An elector actually voted for an eagle. LMAO.

It's a woman whose last name is Spotted Eagle.

 

[Debirudog]

These electors are utterly shameful.

 

[tedrotheredro]

Not only were ~3 million votes not heard, but 1/3 of the Washington votes were not represented. Democracy, ya'll.

 

[Sirpopopop]

A.) Tsk tsk.

If the point is to turn the Democratic party into Bernie Sanders hero worship, I'm against that entirely. That's something I can fight against much more easily than I can against Donald Trump.

B.) I want to find the statistical data for voter turnout of bernie supporters but I can't find shit, so I'm assuming that people who are pushing this narrative have some sort of statistical backing but lo and behold once I ask for the receipts everybody gets quiet.

We know, and you know, that no one is keeping this data.

C.) You didn't post any evidence you liar. You posted a speculation article. Asking for evidence isn't being cute, it's keeping discussion within the realm of reality.

Ah yes, name calling.

1. You asked for a significant amount of support. I never stated those words. Those were your words. You don't get stuff my words in my mouth and then ask me to prove your premise.
2. You never specified what you were looking for at all, until I pointed it out to you. Then you slammed what I sent you, and now you are calling me a liar for not holding up to standards that you didn't present at the start.

And yes, asking for "evidence" is cute. It's a nice way to move the goal posts on something that right now exists solely as speculation for every candidate.

 

[SneakersSO]

So.... a bunch of asshole Democrats have decided it was a good day to shit on Hillary Clinton? This country is doomed.

And people think i'm silly when I say that both the Dems/DNC are in a messy state and will not be winning elections until they sort themselves out.

 

[KingBroly]

Not only were ~3 million votes not heard, but 1/3 of the Washington votes were not represented. Democracy, ya'll.

Good thing we're a Republic

 

[tedrotheredro]

Good thing we're a Republic

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...public-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.e417c8dda0c8

But there is no basis for saying that the United States is somehow “not a democracy, but a republic.” “Democracy” and “republic” aren’t just words that a speaker can arbitrarily define to mean something (e.g., defining democracy as “a form of government in which all laws are made directly by the people”). They are terms that have been given meaning by English speakers more broadly. And both today and in the Framing era, “democracy” has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy.

 

[WaffleTaco]

This is fucking terrible and there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I feel so powerless. This is pointless. We can't win. It's just not possible.

 

[Cybit]

It's the fault of some people (mostly young first time voters) who fell in love with a celebrity-like politician and would accept no other substitutions. They didn't really care what Bernie was about or what he was saying, they just got caught up in the whole flurry of Bernie. He basically became a meme.

It was the same cult of personality that saw people vote in Trump, who thought he was joking about taking their healthcare away.

Trump and Bernie are two sides of the same coin. Just one had an extra dash of overt racism to give him the edge, while Bernie wouldn't go that far.

Told to me decades ago, still true to this day. Not just a young voter thing.

Democrats fall in love
Republicans fall in line

I will fight as long as Sanders supporters continue to do the following:

1. Blame Hillary for Trump.
2. Blame the Democratic Party.
3. Then maybe start looking at Trump.
4. Continue to handwave away Russia. Instead pivot to blaming Hillary.

I'm not going to reach across the aisle when they continually want to rub dirt in the faces of people who put Party first. This is about saving the Democratic Party. Working with Sanders folks the way they think now isn't saving the party. You are replacing ideals with pure hero-worship. You are doubling down on the mistakes of Obama's caretaking of the DNC. It's why "I'm anyone but Keith Ellison" for the Chair. It's why I suspect Obama feels the same way.

I mean, the Democratic party lost this election - full stop. We are the ones who have to think about "OK, what did we do wrong, and what can we learn?" in a meaningful, reasonable manner. Re-litigating the primary (again and again) isn't particularly useful.

lol Colin Powell?

"Fuck that neocon Hillary, I'm voting for the guy who lied to us about Iraq"

Maybe he's the Republican the Hamilton electors settled on.

I am assuming he is the Republican the Hamilton electors settled on (I think all but 2 of the potential Hamilton electors were Democrats, which makes sense)

We know, and you know, that no one is keeping this data.

That's not true - both the GOP and the Dems have a pretty darn good idea of the voting characteristics of Sanders primary supporters - would be foolish not to. From all accounts I think more Republican primary voters voted against Trump than Sanders voters against Clinton. I don't think (and there is little data indicating) that Sanders voters not showing up is the problem - I think Trump just flipped Obama voters in key areas and Clinton's coalition / support was poorly built for the electoral college.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Absolutely pathetic what some "Democratic" electors are doing.

Why? There will not be enough Republican defectors; Trump has won regardless of how Democratic electors vote. So why do you even care? At least mass faithlessness would draw attention the absurdity of the EC system.

 

[whyamihere]

Good for him.

@SenSanders
Trump received 2.5 million fewer votes than Clinton, yet he'll soon be president. Clearly, in a democratic society, this shouldn't happen.

It's also 2.85 million, but.

 

[Cybit]

It is worth pointing out that if you want the electoral college gone, what the faithless electors are doing is exactly what you would want them to do in order to start the conversation among the majority of people. I am assuming that this is at least part of a plan to try to get rid of the EC.

 

[PantherLotus]

Why? There will not be enough Republican defectors; Trump has won regardless of how Democratic electors vote. So why do you even care? At least mass faithlessness would draw attention the absurdity of the EC system.

You don't know why pledged Hillary EVs going to Bernie / Other are bad?

 

[KingBroly]

It is worth pointing out that if you want the electoral college gone, what the faithless electors are doing is exactly what you would want them to do in order to start the conversation among the majority of people. I am assuming that this is at least part of a plan to try to get rid of the EC.

You're never going to get 3/4 of the states to give up that kind of power

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You don't know why pledged Hillary EVs going to Bernie / Other are bad?

No, explain it to me, in a way that doesn't suppose that there was a possibility that 30-something Republican electors would flip.

 

[Cybit]

You're never going to get 3/4 of the states to give up that kind of power

I am guessing the key would be to get states to sign the NPV Compact - only need 3-4 of the swing states to do so. I don't think you would see an amendment to the constitution until after the NPV Compact had been signed and used for 40-50 years.

 

[Hindl]

I'm still young so things have time to change, but I look at this past year and especially these last couple months, and I'm not sure if I want to bring a child into this world. It just doesn't seem like the morally right thing to do

 

[Dominican Power]

Identity has always been at the heart of American culture. We must confront a truth that we have assiduously avoided: The most protected, cherished and nurtured identity of all has been white identity. After all, the needs of the black and brown working classes, which are not exclusively urban, are, again, even in progressive quarters, all but forgotten.

Mr. Trump, and to a degree, the liberals and progressives who advocate a vision of America that spurns identity politics, make one thing clear: The real unifying force in American political life is whiteness, no matter its party, gender, region or, at times, even its class.

Yup.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/o...t-black-people.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[B-Dubs]

You're never going to get 3/4 of the states to give up that kind of power

You don't need 3/4, you just need states that add up to 270 to pledge to go with the popular vote winner.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I am guessing the key would be to get states to sign the NPV Compact - only need 3-4 of the swing states to do so. I don't think you would see an amendment to the constitution until after the NPV Compact had been signed and used for 40-50 years.

The trouble is which states do you persuade to do this? Republican-controlled state legislatures aren't going to implement any legislation that harms their EC advantage. Almost every state this passed in had a Democratic trifecta at the time of passing. I detest the EC, but I think the chances of it ever disappearing are incredibly slim.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Why? There will not be enough Republican defectors; Trump has won regardless of how Democratic electors vote. So why do you even care? At least mass faithlessness would draw attention the absurdity of the EC system.

The only people who would notice this absurdity are Democrats, who already hate the EC over what happened 16 years ago. Republicans are seeing the only measure of faithlessness occurring within the opposing party and are having the time of their lives.


Like I said before, the EC isn't going anywhere until it pisses everyone off. And so far, only one side is really getting hurt by it*, so...

*

Spoiler

btw, this is the same reason why Putin is now the GOP's homegirl

 

[Cybit]

The trouble is which states do you persuade to do this? Republican-controlled state legislatures aren't going to implement any legislation that harms their EC advantage. Almost every state this passed in had a Democratic trifecta at the time of passing. I detest the EC, but I think the chances of it ever disappearing are incredibly slim.

Key would be to flip a couple of states and have them sign it for future use. They just have to flip for long enough to sign the compact, I imagine.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The only people who would notice this absurdity are Democrats, who already hate the EC over what happened 16 years ago. Republicans are seeing the only measure of faithlessness occurring within the opposing party and are having the time of their lives.

You say that, but there were a surprising number of Democrats willing to tolerate the EC in the pre-election thread on the subject. Our very own pigeon, for one. Might not be a bad idea to make sure every Democrat is on board for abolishing it at the very least.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Key would be to flip a couple of states and have them sign it for future use. They just have to flip for long enough to sign the compact, I imagine.

Needs to be more than a couple. I mean, I'm looking at it like this: there are 165 electoral votes currently in the NPVIC. That means you need to get 105 more (assuming that EV distribution stays the same, which it doesn't). You're only going to do this by winning a trifecta in those state houses OR by popular initiative in the relevant states while also controlling one veto position to prevent repeal (e.g., governor). In order of blueness (likelihood for Democratic trifecta), you need to get this passed in Connecticut (7), Delaware (3), Oregon (7), Virginia (13), New Mexico (5), Colorado (9), Nevada (6), Pennsylvania (20), Maine (4), Florida (29), Michigan (16). If you can get a Democratic trifecta in Florida under current political climates, you're a fucking wizard, Harry.

The EC is here to stay for the foreseeable future, I think.

 

[FyreWulff]

The problem is the states enjoy being swing states because all that $$$ from visits and the "marketing" they get from being a swing state.

Moving to publically funded elections would curtail a lot of that.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Shit like this makes me realize Dems will only lose more ground in 2018 and 2020.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Let's stop talking about ~*Liberal Icon*~ Tulsi Gabbard before shinra scolds us again.

Needs more sparkles.

Lmfao. Colin Powell. I can't vote for that bitch and her Iraq war. They should have run Biden. And I'm writing in Colin Powell.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Shit like this makes me realize Dems will only lose more ground in 2018 and 2020.

We actually gained seats in the House and Senate in 2016, believe it or not. We gained ground. Just a small amount.

 

[whyamihere]

This would be the easiest way to get the national contract map, I think:

http://www.270towin.com/maps/0GZ8n

 

[Deleted member 231381]

This would be the easiest way to get the national contract map, I think:

http://www.270towin.com/maps/0GZ8n

...did you link the right map? Why in sweet jesus will the super-Republican states of Kansas and Nebraska pass the NPVIC?

 

[Sirpopopop]

I mean, the Democratic party lost this election - full stop. We are the ones who have to think about "OK, what did we do wrong, and what can we learn?" in a meaningful, reasonable manner. Re-litigating the primary (again and again) isn't particularly useful.

I stand by my statements. Rolling over for whomever the Bernie folks pick isn't in my interests.

That's not how you run a party. There should be compromise. There should be the ability to hold legitimate disagreements based on policy. It shouldn't be, "Pick who I want, otherwise I'll take my ball and go home."

That's not true - both the GOP and the Dems have a pretty darn good idea of the voting characteristics of Sanders primary supporters - would be foolish not to. From all accounts I think more Republican primary voters voted against Trump than Sanders voters against Clinton. I don't think (and there is little data indicating) that Sanders voters not showing up is the problem - I think Trump just flipped Obama voters in key areas and Clinton's coalition / support was poorly built for the electoral college.

Ok, do you think that data will be released?

Odrion was probably looking for something publicly available.

 

[shinra-bansho]

It's already ridiculously optimistic to think this petulance will draw attention inadvertently to anything other than "lollary couldn't even satisfy her electors like Bill and therefore the country."

Let alone that this is some master plan.

 

[thuway]

Whenever the Democrats get back into office and it'll happen eventually even if it takes nearly a decade - people need to remember today and just how powerless some of us feel. I hope this helps signal an end to the electoral college.