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[Pixieking]

Republicans fall in line. No matter how much they bicker and fight.

Democrats behave like little children after they bicker and fight.

Can we have this on bumper-stickers and window-decals, please?

 

[D_psipher]

This is the absolute opposite of what we should be doing. "Making peace" with 8 years of a racist ignorant dumb-ass who raped his first wife and doubled-down on fat-shaming a woman on Twitter? Nope. It's fine if you think fighting it won't do anything, but fight it anyway - the Dems need to push-back against this neo-Nazi piece of shit administration, and people can help by publicly supporting them, and pushing grass-roots activism on the local level. Anyone who has any morals or empathy with their fellow man needs to rally behind the Dems, and push to correct this horror.

(No offense meant, btw. It's an understandable viewpoint to have, but it's also one that must not be given in to.)

Thanks, I really needed to read that. I hope others that need to read this see it as well. It is going to be rough but we have to fight back.

 

[Kevinroc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVjv8I0BlU4

Bill Maher interview. Not sure if this has been posted in this thread yet. I know Maher is a controversial figure, but I think this one was worth sharing.

 

[bgbball31]

Not sure how real-time this is, but it's probably the best we've got (or at least, that I know of).

So far, no electors have flipped.

http://www.270towin.com/live-2016-presidential-election-vote-of-electors/

 

[Box of Kittens]

EDIT: Congress will change it back to 306-232 on the 6th of January, anyway. So don't worry about it too much.

I don't follow. Congress lacks the power to change the electoral vote, since the Constitution reserves that power for the electors. They only step in when no candidate manages to achieve a majority. Hence every ballot ever cast by a faithless elector (like the vote for John Ewards [sic] in 2004) has stood. Not that it makes any practical difference anyway, since the only thing that matters is Trump reaching 270, which he clearly will (any thoughts that he wouldn't were wishful thinking in the first place). At that point it doesn't really matter whether Clinton gets 232 or 2, nothing changes aside from a couple of spoiled children substituting what they want for the will of the voters.

 

[ericexpo]

From FB feed.

Are they saying Obama has been the president since 1940?

 

[Retromelon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVjv8I0BlU4

Bill Maher interview. Not sure if this has been posted in this thread yet. I know Maher is a controversial figure, but I think this one was worth sharing.

That part at the end where he's like "my pet project for 2017 is harping on why we don't need 2 dakotas. we should not have 4 senators from the dakota region. if we need 4 dakota senators we should have 15 fuckin' californias" was pretty funny. Always thought Bill was hilarious, even though he's pissed off a lot of people on his side with the muslim stuff

Are they saying Obama has been the president since 1940?

No they mean, look at all the times America meddled with other places' governments, what right does Obama have to complain. Think less homegrown republican and more international america haters, probably russians

 

[KingBroly]

I don't follow. Congress lacks the power to change the electoral vote, since the Constitution reserves that power for the electors. They only step in when no candidate manages to achieve a majority. Hence every ballot ever cast by a faithless elector (like the vote for John Ewards [sic] in 2004) has stood. Not that it makes any practical difference anyway, since the only thing that matters is Trump reaching 270, which he clearly will (any thoughts that he wouldn't were wishful thinking in the first place). At that point it doesn't really matter whether Clinton gets 232 or 2, nothing changes aside from a couple of spoiled children substituting what they want for the will of the voters.

In a Joint Session to certify the vote, if 1 Representative and 1 Senator from that state can contest that state's vote count. At that point, they suspend the rules to go into a joint vote to determine what that state's electoral vote total allocation will be. It'd be a simple majority rules vote. This is done as a final check to make sure there isn't a ton of corruption in the electors' vote process.

EDIT: All 20 Pennsylvania electors have cast their vote for Donald Trump

EDIT 2: "A POX ON YOUR HOUSE" is heard in PA Legislature, lol

 

[whyamihere]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...07f4f671da4_story.html?utm_term=.28ff552f0be4

Let's see how Populism is doing in Poland!

WARSAW — The Law and Justice Party rode to power on a pledge to drain the swamp of Polish politics and roll back the legacy of the previous administration. One year later, its patriotic revolution, the party proclaims, has cleaned house and brought God and country back to Poland.

Opponents, however, see the birth of a neo-Dark Age — one that, as President-elect Donald Trump prepares to move into the White House, is a harbinger of the power of populism to upend a Western society. In merely a year, critics say, the nationalists have transformed Poland into a surreal and insular place — one where state-sponsored conspiracy theories and de facto propaganda distract the public as democracy erodes.

In the land of Law and Justice, anti-intellectualism is king. Polish scientists are aghast at proposed curriculum changes in a new education bill that would downplay evolution theory and climate change and add hours for “patriotic” history lessons. In a Facebook chat, a top equal rights official mused that Polish hotels should not be forced to provide service to black or gay customers. After the official stepped down for unrelated reasons, his successor rejected an international convention to combat violence against women because it appeared to argue against traditional gender roles.

Over the weekend, Warsaw convulsed in street protests amid allegations that the Law and Justice party had illegally forced through a budget bill even as it sought to restrict media access to Parliament.

Cheered on by religious conservatives, the new government has defunded public assistance for in vitro fertilization treatments. To draft new sexual-education classes in schools, it tapped a contraceptives opponent who argues that condom use increases the risk of cancer in women. The government is proffering a law that critics say could soon be used to limit opposition protests.

Yet nothing has shocked liberals more than this: After a year in power, Law and Justice is still by far the most popular political party in Poland. It rides atop opinion polls at roughly 36 percent — more than double the popularity of the ousted Civic Platform party.

“The people support us,” boasted Adam Bielan, Law and Justice’s deputy speaker of the Senate.

Trump is promising a tax code rework that could trigger a bonanza of cash rebates for Americans. In Poland, Law and Justice put cash in pockets in other ways, but always while merging social conservatism and nationalism with populist economics. The new government doled out money to families with children. They also slashed Poland’s retirement age — to as young as 60 for women and 65 for men.

Opponents call such actions the “buying” of support, moves that will only drive up Polish debt and masquerade a long-term power grab that could entrench Law and Justice for years.

But right now, for many Poles, nationalism has never felt so good.

“We are living in this post-truth environment where you can say and do anything and people don’t seem to care,” said Jacek Kucharczyk, president of the Warsaw-based Institute of Public Affairs.

Embracing the new government, to some measure, also means buying into the disturbing worldview it sells: You can only trust a Pole — even then, only some.

And the party’s views have never been more effectively disseminated. The national broadcaster in Poland would often tilt toward the party in power. But following its victory, Law and Justice launched an unprecedented purge of journalists at the channel, turning it into what opponents describe as a propaganda machine where conspiracy theories flourish. It recently ran a piece on the health risks of child vaccinations.

The new government is also skeptical of the Paris climate change agreement to cut carbon emissions and has pulled support for Polish wind and solar farms. At the same time, it is pumping more money into coal.

“Who really knows what is causing global warming?” Pawel said. “And Poland needs the coal industry.”

Maria was always more concerned with the spread of liberal values, which Law and Justice has, she said, rightly nipped in the bud. There is no more talk in Poland, for instance, of offering any legal rights to same-sex couples. Earlier this year, the office of a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender group in Warsaw was badly vandalized. Police never caught the perpetrators.

“Homosexuality was quiet before, then they tried to normalize it,” she said. “You don’t see that happening now.”

Are they concerned about allegations the new government is distracting the public as it chips away at Polish democracy?

“No,” she said. “I think they’re just cleaning house.”

 

[Box of Kittens]

In a Joint Session to certify the vote, if 1 Representative and 1 Senator from that state can contest that state's vote count. At that point, they suspend the rules to go into a joint vote to determine what that state's electoral vote total allocation will be. It'd be a simple majority rules vote. This is done as a final check to make sure there isn't a ton of corruption in the electors' vote process.

Interesting. It looks a little more complicated than just fixing the votes, at least as it has been applied in the past. The recourse appears to be to just throw out votes entirely, as they did in 1872. I'm no Constitutional Law scholar, but I'd have to imagine any attempt to "fix" the results by changing votes to a different candidate would get challenged in the courts.

 

[Zereta]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...07f4f671da4_story.html?utm_term=.28ff552f0be4

Let's see how Populism is doing in Poland!

#2016

Man, fucking what is happening in this world

 

[KingBroly]

Interesting. It looks a little more complicated than just fixing the votes, at least as it has been applied in the past. The recourse appears to be to just throw out votes entirely, as they did in 1872. I'm no Constitutional Law scholar, but I'd have to imagine any attempt to "fix" the results by changing votes to a different candidate would get challenged in the courts.

SCOTUS wouldn't get in the way, so whatever Congress would do would stand, especially at 4-4. It's pretty complicated and was only done once, so I really tried to dumb it down.

EC Update: After WI and KS, Trump is at 170

 

[Wilsongt]

#2016

Man, fucking what is happening in this world

Stupid people breed far more than intellegent folks. Thus those who are swayed by idiots are becoming far more plentiful.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

#2016

Man, fucking what is happening in this world

A global recession combined with an increase in terrorist attacks across the world lead to people feeling helpless and scared. Evil people then offer them a hand and promise them their lives back and safety, and give them someone to point at to blame for their problems.

 

[Zereta]

A global recession combined with an increase in terrorist attacks across the world lead to people feeling helpless and scared. Evil people then offer them a hand and promise them their lives back and safety, and give them someone to point at to blame for their problems.

Oh I know exactly how we got here. Back when my friends were scoffing at the idea of Trump winning, I told them, well, look at what's happening in Europe, dont be too sure that America is safe from that wave of fear.

Welp.

I just don't see how the world as a whole gets out of this spiral without something devastating to jolt it out. I honestly think we're headed towards a major war of sorts (not a World War, but larger than a small regional conflict) Personally, I think Europe is in danger of just pure devastation in the next decade.

America, I think America will make it out okay, hopefully in 4 years time, but for sure in 8 years time. Question is, will the damage done, if it is done, in that time, be repairable? Who's to say.

The wildcard here is Russia, who we know (more or less) is pulling some of the strings behind the scenes. Whatever the upcoming conflict is, you know Russia is there.

The folks giving shit to Obama for not deploying troops into Syria don't realize the consequence of having active Russian and American forces in the same warzone. Its a good call that was a rough one to make but the right one. Who knows what will happen next.

2017, you can only go up.

 

[KingBroly]

We have a FAITHLESS ELECTOR IN MINNESOTA. Hillary will only receive 9 votes from Minnesota. The 1 faithless vote for Bernie Sanders won't count.

 

[Maledict]

We have a FAITHLESS ELECTOR IN MINNESOTA. Hillary will only receive 9 votes from Minnesota. The 1 faithless vote for Bernie Sanders won't count.

The fact that Hillary will have more faithless electors than Trump is at the same time both sadly unsurprising and also unfucking believable from Bernie supporters.

Pieces of absolute shit. I have less regard for them than I do republicans voting for Trump.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

"Use it or lose it" is my opinion on the electoral college. The historical trend in the US has been to jettison anti-populist mechanisms like indirect election of Senators and I don't see a reason to treat the electoral college any differently. Actually 'using' it now would be a violation of long-standing historical tradition/precedent; we rejected the Framer's intentions a long time ago.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Oh I know exactly how we got here. Back when my friends were scoffing at the idea of Trump winning, I told them, well, look at what's happening in Europe, dont be too sure that America is safe from that wave of fear.

Welp.

I just don't see how the world as a whole gets out of this spiral without something devastating to jolt it out. I honestly think we're headed towards a major war of sorts (not a World War, but larger than a small regional conflict) Personally, I think Europe is in danger of just pure devastation in the next decade.

America, I think America will make it out okay, hopefully in 4 years time, but for sure in 8 years time. Question is, will the damage done, if it is done, in that time, be repairable? Who's to say.

The wildcard here is Russia, who we know (more or less) is pulling some of the strings behind the scenes. Whatever the upcoming conflict is, you know Russia is there.

The folks giving shit to Obama for not deploying troops into Syria don't realize the consequence of having active Russian and American forces in the same warzone. Its a good call that was a rough one to make but the right one. Who knows what will happen next.

2017, you can only go up.

Yea, I think Europe is actually in worse shape than us, but they don't want to admit it (instead, just continue to ridicule the US).

The EU is eroding, Putin is knocking on their door, a couple countries are battling with far right waves, many are in awful shape economically.

I think a World War is more likely than you think. Trump messes with China, Russian starts poking at NATO countries in Europe, someone does something stupid, and WWIII has started.

 

[davepoobond]

There will be more Faithless electors against Hillary than Trump.

looks like you were right.

 

[Diablos]

Bernie supporters (the hardcore ones anyway) are fucking fools.

They're going to be really sorry in several years when Trump's actions as Pres severely degrades their quality of life.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Can you imagine if they pulled this crap if she was only up 2 electoral votes?

Good lord

 

[studyguy]

Dems out here willing to sink the ship whole to the bitter end. I don't think I'm surprised any longer, just sort of saddened by it all. Can't even rally a token show of support post loss while Republicans by most measures are all in.

 

[davepoobond]

Dems out here willing to sink the ship whole to the bitter end. I don't think I'm surprised any longer, just sort of saddened by it all. Can't even rally a token show of support post loss while Republicans by most measures are all in.

ceding control the fascists because they can't get all of what they want

 

[tedrotheredro]

I think it's pretty clear why Hillary lost the election. Thanks for Trump, Bern or bust'ers.

 

[And_Gignac]

We have a FAITHLESS ELECTOR IN MINNESOTA. Hillary will only receive 9 votes from Minnesota. The 1 faithless vote for Bernie Sanders won't count.

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

But really, I don't know what the faithless electors were trying to accomplish expanding the primary drama, but I guess it just shows you how a poorly unifying figure Clinton was.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Can you imagine if they pulled this crap if she was only up 2 electoral votes?

Good lord

I know of at least one elector in Washington that was planning to something like that.

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

Because that wasn't already made abundantly clear during the last month. The knife needs to be needlessly twisted on top of that.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

That's not the message I'm getting from them at all.

 

[KingBroly]

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

I think if Bernie got the nomination, the DNC establishment would've put up someone else and backed them instead of Bernie.

 

[metalslimer]

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ

No I get the message that they (including you if you agree) are whiny fucking petulant children who can worship their messiah somewhere else if it pleases them

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

The only message sent is that the Democrats are a mess. No other message is being sent by these electors being idiots.

And that the far left doesn't really actually care about anything other than celebrities that make their tummies feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[dramatis]

Bernie supporters (the hardcore ones anyway) are fucking fools.

They're going to be really sorry in several years when Trump's actions as Pres severely degrades their quality of life.

They're not going to be the ones with severely degraded quality of life.

Good. Let the message resound loud and clear: Clinton was the mistake that gave us Trump.

The way I see it, Sanders is the mistake that we allowed and gave us Trump. But of course, there are multiple viewpoints.

 

[Sirpopopop]

This is the absolute opposite of what we should be doing. "Making peace" with 8 years of a racist ignorant dumb-ass who raped his first wife and doubled-down on fat-shaming a woman on Twitter? Nope. It's fine if you think fighting it won't do anything, but fight it anyway - the Dems need to push-back against this neo-Nazi piece of shit administration, and people can help by publicly supporting them, and pushing grass-roots activism on the local level. Anyone who has any morals or empathy with their fellow man needs to rally behind the Dems, and push to correct this horror.

(No offense meant, btw. It's an understandable viewpoint to have, but it's also one that must not be given in to.)

We have a FAITHLESS ELECTOR IN MINNESOTA. Hillary will only receive 9 votes from Minnesota. The 1 faithless vote for Bernie Sanders won't count.

Pixieking - This is why Democrats aren't winning in 2020. The non-Bernie Sanders supporting people do not get a say. We need to go with your pick or else they will sit out the election.

I feel like I need to give them a taste of their own medicine. The planet's already fucked. The damage is going to be done by the time 2020 rolls around. The Supreme Court is done.

At least I can save my own party by watching the Sanders folks choke on a 2020 loss.

 

[whyamihere]

Per MN law, the faithless elector was replaced.

 

[And_Gignac]

The only message sent is that the Democrats are a mess. No other message is being sent by these electors being idiots.

And that the far left doesn't really actually care about anything other than celebrities that make their tummies feel warm and fuzzy.

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

And mess Berners ain't far left. I mean, most of them still believe in capitalism.

 

[KingBroly]

Pixieking - This is why Democrats aren't winning in 2020. The non-Bernie Sanders supporting people do not get a say. We need to go with them or else they will sit out the election.

I feel like I need to give them a taste of their own medicine. The planet's already fucked. The damage is going to be done by the time 2020 rolls around. The Supreme Court is done.

At least I can save my own party by watching the Sanders folks choke on a 2020 loss.

The only person who can beat Trump in 4 years is Trump. I think most realize that. That's how it always worked. In 92, Bush lost because he raised taxes after saying 'read my lips, no new taxes.' That and Ross Perot, who, if he didn't quit, probably would've won.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

Pretty clearly the former. I've had plenty of time to think about it, but it's been exceedingly clear since the DNC.

 

[whyamihere]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

And mess Berners ain't far left. I mean, most of them still believe in capitalism.

Why not both.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

And mess Berners ain't far left. I mean, most of them still believe in capitalism.

It's the fault of some people (mostly young first time voters) who fell in love with a celebrity-like politician and would accept no other substitutions. They didn't really care what Bernie was about or what he was saying, they just got caught up in the whole flurry of Bernie. He basically became a meme.

It was the same cult of personality that saw people vote in Trump, who thought he was joking about taking their healthcare away.

Trump and Bernie are two sides of the same coin. Just one had an extra dash of overt racism to give him the edge, while Bernie wouldn't go that far.

 

[B-Dubs]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

And mess Berners ain't far left. I mean, most of them still believe in capitalism.

It's the former. They were given unprecedented concessions and still never gave a shit.

 

[whyamihere]

Really wonderful we're all relitigating the primary again. Really useful fights going forward.

 

[Vixdean]

At some point you have to ask yourself if this rebellion is the fault of the stubborn rebels or the fault of a figure / campaign that wasn't able to unify.

And mess Berners ain't far left. I mean, most of them still believe in capitalism.

Hillary actually tried to unify the party, making several overtures and outright capitulations to the Bernie wing. They spat in her face and their votes ultimately decided the election for Trump. This ain't a hypothetical thought experiment here, it's objectively their fault.

 

[PantherLotus]

In retrospect it's been a pretty bad year for politics.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

It's the former. They were given unprecedented concessions and still never gave a shit.

Because all they wanted is for the democratic process to be thrown out the window and Bernie be appointed as the nominee. It's ridiculous.

 

[Diablos]

How many faithless electors so far and for whom

 

[minor effort]

Really wonderful we're all relitigating the primary again. Really useful fights going forward.

This is why it's my hope that both Bernie and Hillary keep very low profiles leading up to 2020. We need a clean break from this primary without new candidates acting as vessels for prior ones, and supporters seeking to revisit old battles.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Because all they wanted is for the democratic process to be thrown out the window and Bernie be appointed as the nominee. It's ridiculous.

Reminder: What they were asking for would have been the biggest disenfranchisement of minorities since Jim Crow

This is why it's my hope that both Bernie and Hillary keep very low profiles leading up to 2020. We need a clean break from this primary with out new candidates acting as vessels for prior ones, and supporters seeking to revisit old battles.

Bernie smells a power vacuum and he wants in. He's not going anywhere.

 

[sc0la]

The swamp just got richer. Another billionair nominated to the cabinent as Secretary of the Army. Some Hockey team owner who made his money as an investor.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-nominates-vincent-viola-army-secretary

The American people paying millions to keep billionaires employed.

I mean. We already do that with favorable taxation and sweetheart deals to "keep jobs" in a city/state/country.

 

[metalslimer]

When you have the fucking choice between letting Trump win and not letting him win you don't get to absolve yourself for choosing to let him win.

Also 2 faithless electors is already more than anyone in recent history I'm remembering correctly.

 

[KingBroly]

How many faithless electors so far and for whom

So far? 2 against Clinton.

The State of Florida. 29 votes for Donald Trump. He's broken 200