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[Cesare Borgia]

It's less at this point that I think he will hurt Clinton (though there is still a non-zero chance) and more that all his recent public-facing actions are those of a man who seems bitter, delusional and clearly not doing everything he can to prevent Trump from winning. It's a validation of literally everything Barney Frank and anyone who has ever been critical of Sanders has ever said. It's........weird and not in a remotely good way.

But Trump has next to no chance of winning regardless, thus Sanders picked the wrong time to pull this stunt. The board is already set. I get the impression he thought Hillary would struggle against Trump and come begging to him for help. Instead she's crushing him, republicans are in disarray, and she has multiple surrogates who are better than him (Obama, Warren, Bill).

And this is the guy people thought could create a political revolution. He's terrible at politics. Now he's running around trying to destroy the president's signature trade agreement. It doesn't make any sense. But ultimately it doesn't matter. He's finished politically and is just enjoying his final moments. I have no problem with that.

I checked his reddit and saw a thread about how his supporters aren't even phonebanking for the couple candidates he has endorsed. There is no political revolution, this was always just about Bernie Sanders.

 

[User 463088]

That's actually a really good compromise from Hillary on the free college thing. I don't think anyone would be opposed to that if your goal is free college? So, her plan is free community college for everyone, and then debt free/free college at state schools for those making under $125,000? Sounds fine to me.

 

[Foffy]

Ugh basic income talk...

I'm so sick of a thought experiment (and that's all it is) being talked about like its actual policy that should be implemented.

We have absolutly no idea what it does to productivity, economic growth, jobs, social cohesion, innovation, health, etc. But we're just supposed to jump right in because it sounds good and people are fearing a impending robot take over which can't be supported





If bernie's people bitch about that...

Really if your family makes more than that you can take out loans (at a much lower interest rate tho)

>Fearmongering concern of automation.
>Obama's own economic committee outs most people in the minimum wage range are in the straight blast radius to automation and states as much.

Get out of here, queen.

We're talking about a country in which the gubbmint is trying to stop poor people from buying sugar with food stamps, and we're entertaining the idea of a basic income?

Okay.

Would it surprise you that conservatives actually like the idea, and this almost become reality during the Nixon administration? In the words of Scott Santens "basic income isn't left or right; it's forward."

This isn't some far left utopia. But it's really only the left even entertaining automation as a jobs problem, for the most part.

Of course, the problem is regressives who aren't paying attention. You know, the same folk who think climate change is up for debate.

 

[Box of Kittens]

I'm not worried about Bernie. The guy is basically a professional protestor. For all the talk of squandering his leverage, I think he's actually happier playing the outsider than he would be if he got a prime-time speaking slot. It kind of makes me wonder if he'd even know what to do with himself had he won the nomination. I think it's pretty clear he and his campaign were convinced they could win at some point, but I can just imagine him winning the nomination and having this moment of "now what?"

 

[User 463088]

New YouGov

Queen 42
Idiot 37

Same margin as last week. In the field 2nd through 4th.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I work in a high school with about 65% students of another culture. I can confirm this is a massive issue. I'm not exaggerating when I say that any time anybody brings up the election you can see the genuine fear in their eyes. You can hear it in their voices. They're scared to death of this guy shipping back them and their families.


I know this will never happen, but as a father of four? YES, PLEASE.

your a Janitor, Guidance Counselor, Secretary or Teacher? Just wondering

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I work in a high school with about 65% students of another culture. I can confirm this is a massive issue. I'm not exaggerating when I say that any time anybody brings up the election you can see the genuine fear in their eyes. You can hear it in their voices. They're scared to death of this guy shipping back them and their families.

It's a shame, too. Because General Elections are supposed to be the perfect time for teachers to demonstrate the democratic process to their students, but a lot of them are finding that the behavior of one of the candidates is making it impossible to talk about what's going on in a non-partisan manner.

 

[User 463088]

I had a mini-freakout yesterday about Trump winning.

The only reason I have insurance is because of the ACA. Without it, I'm screwed six ways to Sunday. I have to go have some tests run, and I'm like freaking out knowing the copay, high as it is, is doable, but without insurance the $2000 for an MRI would be out of my range right now. $100 copay? Fuck ya, I'm in.

 

[studyguy]

It's not about winning elections when you're talking to a group of people up for election in roughly 3 months time. It's about continuing a revolution under the threat of Republicans taking your seat and putting the brakes on said revolution.

Sanders is a non-issue now, he'll be even less so post convention. Not worth making a fuss over it, but it's hard to watch him make such odd moves while things are winding down.

 

[Cybit]

That's actually a really good compromise from Hillary on the free college thing. I don't think anyone would be opposed to that if your goal is free college? So, her plan is free community college for everyone, and then debt free/free college at state schools for those making under $125,000? Sounds fine to me.

A straight limit / cutoff at 125000 is kind of dumb though; it gives bad incentives. Make it a gradual decrease starting at 125k.

Also, until you a) fix state funding and b) start pushing colleges to stop acting like businesses and instead more like schools (which is a major reason why colleges have gotten so much more expensive) - schools will just start adding expenses knowing that the government is going to pay them for it.

 

[whyamihere]

I've largely avoided Sanders news/convo, but some might find this interesting..



(Sorry for the odd formatting; this is to be read from bottom to top. Twitter.. sigh..)

The goal IS to win elections SO we can "transform America". That's the point of winning elections. Just ask Jeremy Corbyn how he's doing.

 

[digdug2k]

Man. I'm trying to argue with some Facebook people that Hillary Clinton didn't break the law, and I'm getting pounded by people who have actually gone through the process of getting a security clearance who believe she's getting treated with kid gloves in comparison to how they'd get treated.

I can't effectively respond to them because I've never had to get a security clearance. Even legal arguments about mens rea and actus rea seem ineffectual.

It's tough out there. To the other Facebook warriors out there, I salute you.

Lol. I've seen people go through getting TS clearance before. Its long and arduous, but comparing it to any of the vetting Clinton has gone through in the last year alone is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And that's just talking about the public vetting from the media, not the internal vetting that I'm sure is done by the FBI the second its clear someone could be the next POTUS.

But in general, I find people who work for the DoD complaining that the Secretary of State doesn't have to follow the exact same rules they do a bit silly. She's does get treated differently. You probably can't take home that top secret brief to study it at night. She probably can. You'd probably get in trouble for talking about X on an unsecure line. She probably won't. She's the fucking Secretary of State. You're some low level data analyst. You're not a bad human being. It doesn't mean she's a great human being. It just means she's more important than you. Get over it.

 

[Foffy]

A straight limit / cutoff at 125000 is kind of dumb though; it gives bad incentives. Make it a gradual decrease starting at 125k.

Also, until you a) fix state funding and b) start pushing colleges to stop acting like businesses and instead more like schools (which is a major reason why colleges have gotten so much more expensive) - schools will just start adding expenses knowing that the government is going to pay them for it.

Haven't they already done the latter and use it as a good excuse to raise tuition fees for their students? Making centers and the like even their own students don't want in places?

That's probably a big issue at the more famed institutions.

 

[Aaron Strife]

The goal IS to win elections SO we can "transform America". That's the point of winning elections. Just ask Jeremy Corbyn how he's doing.

It's like look, we made fun of conservatives like Jim DeMint who would say "I'd rather have there only be 30 GOP senators if they were true conservatives rather than 60 RINOs". We should be pushing the party to the left as much as possible but believing we can do that without actually winning is hopelessly naive.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Remember when PoliGAF told everyone to stop diablosing? That Bernie would drop out in the next week or so and quickly endorse Clinton?

Oh, those were the days...We were so optimistic back then....

Spoiler

*cue everyone saying he doesn't matter anymore*. I know, I know. Just reminiscing

I didn't. I pointed out he'd go until the convention. I also predicted back in December Sanders would win more than 16 states. A significant number of people here thought he'd only win Vermont, and very few thought any more than Vermont and New Hampshire.

We should all hand our analyst badges in.

 

[nature boy]

Sorta politics, considering it's Roger Alies:

Wow. Gretchen Carlson files sexual harassment suit against Fox News chief Roger Ailes.

https://twitter.com/TomKludt/status/750708587249401856

 

[Spoiled Milk]

There have also been several studies of the effects in charity situations. Here is one: http://www.princeton.edu/~joha/publications/Haushofer_Shapiro_Policy_Brief_2013.pdf

This is a study on the effect of their well-being, but given that it was a very small study it doesn't alleviate my concerns of the macroscopic effects. I'm not convinced that if you increase the spending cash of the least affluent members of society, prices won't just skyrocket from the increase in demand until they can't afford it anymore. This is highly dependent on the market but, for instance, housing would probably see huge increases in prices.

 

[User 463088]

A straight limit / cutoff at 125000 is kind of dumb though; it gives bad incentives. Make it a gradual decrease starting at 125k.

Also, until you a) fix state funding and b) start pushing colleges to stop acting like businesses and instead more like schools (which is a major reason why colleges have gotten so much more expensive) - schools will just start adding expenses knowing that the government is going to pay them for it.

I mean, we don't have the total plan yet, but her debt free college plan did tackle a lot of the things you're talking about. In fact, that was one of her biggest criticisms of Bernie's plan, that there was no form of cost control on the colleges/universities. From a quick read through on Huff Post, it looks like her plan gets rid of in-state tuition for those making under $125k. I'm sure there would be something for those making more than $125k, although current assistance is limited to Loans.

 

[Measley]

Right after Trump broadly praised TIME magazine, TIME puts out this:



That's bait, right? It has to be!

Holy shit, if he runs with Newt the GOP isn't going to have a shot at the white house until the middle of the next decade.

Sorta politics, considering it's Roger Alies:




https://twitter.com/TomKludt/status/750708587249401856

Not surprising considering that all prominent Fox women are blonde and wearing short skirts. I could imagine they all fit that porker's twisted fantasy of what an ideal woman looks like.

So I take it she's going to CNN?

 

[Goodstyle]

Sorta politics, considering it's Roger Alies:




https://twitter.com/TomKludt/status/750708587249401856

.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I'm surprised it never came out during her time at State. Obama became the new boogeyman and Hillary the saint with 66% approval ratings.

 

[User 463088]

.

Wouldn't. I think we've found my limit.

 

[studyguy]

The plan starts at 85k then moves up from there. Honestly I don't mind, that alone will help a number of my younger nieces and nephews out by the time they finish HS. She also noted refinancing of loans being on the plate along with pell grants being year round.

It's a start but I don't see how it intends to be funded or their plan for getting it passed. The student loan refinancing was marked as possibly an executive action which is interesting I guess.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Do we know this for certain and that they're won't be other negative effects. Again, its a thought experiment. Were has it been tried that we can definitively say this?

I mean when we did large welfare programs in the 30s and 40s we had smaller scale experiments dating back decades. It wasn't a giant leap in the dark.

Why would we try giving millions of people gov't financial tools with no conditions attached while promising higher living standards for everyone? In the 30s and 40s, we didn't have a ton of time to mess around doing dumb things following the Great Depression & during WW2.

 

[nature boy]

Not surprising considering that all prominent Fox women are blonde and wearing short skirts. I could imagine they all fit that porker's twisted fantasy of what an ideal woman looks like.

So I take it she's going to CNN?

Maybe she can be used as leverage against Megyn Kelly if one of the big 3 want her even after her special bombed.

Wonder what this means for Alies in the medium term.




Good to see some compromise on the college situation, but that's going to be tough to get through Congress.

 

[User 463088]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/u...on&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=1

Interesting read about why Florida may doom Trump.

Nate Cohn's take is that Florida didn't shift as far in 08 and 12 as it should have because Obama was weak among older/white Democrats. Hillary isn't.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Jesus Christ, this news is horryifying.

Wouldn't. I think we've found my limit.

How about now?

 

[studyguy]

Oh the plan is on her site now along with expected method for payment.

Fully paid for: This plan will be fully paid for by limiting certain tax expenditures for high-income taxpayers.

Also noted:

• Students will do their part by contributing their earnings from working 10 hours a week.


• Families will do their part by making an affordable and realistic family contribution.


• The federal government will make a major investment in the New College Compact by providing grants to states that commit to these goals, and by cutting interest rates on loans.


• States will have to step up and meet their obligation to invest in higher education by maintaining current levels of higher education funding and reinvesting over time.


• Colleges and universities will be accountable for improving outcomes and controlling costs to ensure that tuition is affordable and that students who invest in college leave with a degree.


• We will encourage innovators who design imaginative new ways of providing a valuable college education to students—while cracking down on abusive practices that burden students with debt without value.


• A $25 billion fund will support HBCUs, HSIs, and other MSIs serving a high percentage of Pell Grant recipients to help lower the cost of attendance and improve student outcomes at low-cost, modest-endowment nonprofit private schools.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...arlson_accuses_roger_ailes_of_sexual_har.html

Roger Ailes is a fucking freak.

 

[User 463088]

Jesus Christ, this news is horryifying.

How about now?

I have my dignity. Usually. And the guy is fucking slime.

Reason number 8,778 why Bernie's not the nominee.

 

[Paskil]

If you colored in a large dot a little above the forehead and shopped out his face, his head would look like a giant penis.

 

[jack_package_200]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/750703629275770881

I applaud @HillaryClinton for the very bold initiative she has just brought forth for the financing of higher education.

I love seeing his supporters turn on him for praising Hillary. Its like they care about being anti Clinton and not about any of Bernie's ideals

I have my dignity. Usually. And the guy is fucking slime.

Reason number 8,778 why Bernie's not the nominee.

The south

Spoiler

black voters

doesn't matter.

Actually winning isn't important as long as we change America.

Christ he need to drop out.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Is there any logical way to square these two statements?

-Cutting off trade will not harm poor nations
-Bill Clinton killed 500k Iraqis by cutting off foreign trade to Iraq

These are basically gospel among Bernie Stans on Twitter and they seem directly contradicting.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I had a mini-freakout yesterday about Trump winning.

The only reason I have insurance is because of the ACA. Without it, I'm screwed six ways to Sunday. I have to go have some tests run, and I'm like freaking out knowing the copay, high as it is, is doable, but without insurance the $2000 for an MRI would be out of my range right now. $100 copay? Fuck ya, I'm in.

A few weeks ago I had a surgery that would've been impossible for my family to afford if not for being on ACA. I'm never ever going to miss an opportunity to vote in my life.

 

[Boke1879]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/750703629275770881



I love seeing his supporters turn on him for praising Hillary. Its like they care about being anti Clinton and not about any of Bernie's ideals



The south

Spoiler

black voters

doesn't matter.

Actually winning isn't important as long as we change America.

Christ he need to drop out.

Because those people don't even care about his policies. They just care that he's "outside the establishment"

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why was Bernie spending any money at all in Vermont?

Even if he never went very far in the election, he would have easily won that state...

 

[pigeon]

This is a study on the effect of their well-being, but given that it was a very small study it doesn't alleviate my concerns of the macroscopic effects. I'm not convinced that if you increase the spending cash of the least affluent members of society, prices won't just skyrocket from the increase in demand until they can't afford it anymore. This is highly dependent on the market but, for instance, housing would probably see huge increases in prices.

Giving people cash doesn't increase their demand for necessities. That's what makes them necessities, people have a lower bound on their demand for them regardless of their means.

I feel like a consistent increase in price across all providers of, say, housing, assumes a level of cooperation that would border on collusion. Housing prices should be more or less commoditized. This assumes free movement, though, which isn't real, so there's a problem to resolve there -- that's why it's so expensive to live in the Bay, for example. But that problem exists now, without basic income. I can probably agree that in a world with basic income there's even more pressure for Americans to move to undervalued states. That is not necessarily a bad thing, and basic income actually resolves a lot of the problems with labor mobility.

I'm also not against income in kind if this is a genuine issue, although now we're really getting socialist.

 

[User1608]

He's always been an ideologue. His ideals are more important than anything, winning elections and actually getting shit done included.

I'm pretty dumbfounded I guess.

YES

And people have been calling this out for months.

Why are people acting so new to Bernie? His behavior now is no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

I'm not surprised, again I'm just so.. like, what? Hah. Brain is fried.

Remember when PoliGAF told everyone to stop diablosing? That Bernie would drop out in the next week or so and quickly endorse Clinton?

Oh, those were the days...We were so optimistic back then....

Spoiler

*cue everyone saying he doesn't matter anymore*. I know, I know. Just reminiscing

Oh yeah, I remember. I'm very guilty of it.

Is there any logical way to square these two statements?

-Cutting off trade will not harm poor nations
-Bill Clinton killed 500k Iraqis by cutting off foreign trade to Iraq

These are basically gospel among Bernie Stans on Twitter and they seem directly contradicting.

The cognitive dissonance is wonderful.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Christ he need to drop out.

HENCEFORTH, there will be no more discussion of Bernie Sanders or anything he does, for his candidacy has been over for months. There will be no more discussion of H.A. Goodman because all chances of indictment are over, and all he ever amounted to was a delusional post-ironic nobody. There will be no more discussion of Bernie Bros, of emails, of Ambassador Ben Ghazi, or the FBI.

It is written.

.

 

[nature boy]

SAY MY NAME.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

i didn't sign this contract

 

[Plinko]

your a Janitor, Guidance Counselor, Secretary or Teacher? Just wondering

Teacher.

 

[Brinbe]

I made the same point about Florida being the key to HRC's electoral college win weeks ago. Without it, Trump's fucked. And he's not winning FL. So he's fucked.

She needs just one of OH/PA/VA/NC/CO or IA+NH to put her over the top.

 

[studyguy]

SAY MY NAME.

I fully endorse The Republican Nominee. The Nominee is a great person and/or thing. I completely support The Republican Nominee in all its endeavors.

 

[User 463088]

A few weeks ago I had a surgery that would've been impossible for my family to afford if not for being on ACA. I'm never ever going to miss an opportunity to vote in my life.

I totally feel you.

I lost about 70% of my eye sight (Hard to quantify, but you know...) because I didn't have insurance. I was a college student, and ya..was completely shit out of luck. I'm in the process of trying to have two corneal transplants, but I keep getting infections and screwing it up.

Without the ACA, I wouldn't covered for my eye problems. Plus, two years ago, I had emergency surgery after nearly dying. So, ya, I have nothing but love for what the Democrats did. It's not perfect, but it's still a freaking win, you know?

Also, I hope you're feeling okay.

 

[Measley]

Anyone watching the Clinton speech in Atlantic City? She's standing in front of abandoned Trump buildings and discussing his business failures. Pretty damn hardcore, and a fairly brilliant political strategy.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Do any of the "I hate both choices!" "Douche vs. Turd!" people ever try to get political campaigns to start up for ranked choice voting or anything else that would help third and fourth parties thrive? Even Dr. Jill Stein is smart enough to understand that the voting system needs to change to help third-parties actually be relevant.

It feels like South Park "moderates" are just lazy people sometimes or are people that don't want to admit to having beliefs out of insecurity.

 

[nature boy]

Hildawg live now on Trump's failed casinos.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I totally feel you.

I lost about 70% of my eye sight (Hard to quantify, but you know...) because I didn't have insurance. I was a college student, and ya..was completely shit out of luck. I'm in the process of trying to have two corneal transplants, but I keep getting infections and screwing it up.

Without the ACA, I wouldn't covered for my eye problems. Plus, two years ago, I had emergency surgery after nearly dying. So, ya, I have nothing but love for what the Democrats did. It's not perfect, but it's still a freaking win, you know?

Also, I hope you're feeling okay.

goodness you have a myriad of health problems. Has that been that way since childhood.

 

[User1608]

Anyone watching the Clinton speech in Atlantic City? She's standing in front of abandoned Trump buildings and discussing his business failures. Pretty damn hardcore, and a fairly brilliant political strategy.

Will give a watch when I get home. Sounds brilliant black indeed!

I totally feel you.

I lost about 70% of my eye sight (Hard to quantify, but you know...) because I didn't have insurance. I was a college student, and ya..was completely shit out of luck. I'm in the process of trying to have two corneal transplants, but I keep getting infections and screwing it up.

Without the ACA, I wouldn't covered for my eye problems. Plus, two years ago, I had emergency surgery after nearly dying. So, ya, I have nothing but love for what the Democrats did. It's not perfect, but it's still a freaking win, you know?

Also, I hope you're feeling okay.

Glad you're doing better now.😃