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[campfireweekend]

I mean, there's also the thing where millions of people would be lifted out of poverty and countless progressive goals would be achieved.

Sure, but why does it have to be universal? This kind of thinking smacks of the same Bernie sanders reasoning where we make all college free, a move which has been tried and disproportionately helps the upper middle class.

If we want to eliminate poverty, why give everyone extra money? Which not just Institute a negative income tax? Liberals are allowed to have targeted solutions, we don't need grand social experiments to eliminate poverty, just a stronger welfare state.

 

[East Lake]

"Only do trade with nations of comparable incomes" would seem like an idea to ban exports and imports from poor nations, yes.

To someone who doesn't know anything about trade, sanctions, or politics I could see how they might seem similar yes.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Ernst would be a really weird choice other than begging for money from donors. She's talked about being sexually harassed (making her not a woman Trump would like) and she wants to massively cut Medicare and Social Security (a move counter to 20% of Trump's appeal).

Hillary fixed up Trump's response:

 

[whyamihere]

Uh.

https://twitter.com/mollymotoole/status/750738828164464641

@mollymotoole
Trump campaign disputing the @SenBobCorker has taken himself out of VP race.

The source was an interview with Bob Corker!

 

[campfireweekend]

To someone who doesn't know anything about trade, sanctions, or politics I could see how they might seem similar yes.

I'm pretty sure you're talking to economist.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

 

[Bowdz]

And Joni Ernst is not being vetted either, so I lost my long shot. On the other hand if it's Gingrich we all win.

Yeah, I can't see Ernst or Pence going for it because it will destroy their standing with the establishment permanently. Which is why it's Gingrich or Christie.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Uh.

https://twitter.com/mollymotoole/status/750738828164464641



The source was an interview with Bob Corker!

But haven't you heard? The only people who say they don't want it are people who haven't been asked. They're only looking at the best VP candidates, they're wonderful

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm pretty sure you're talking to economist.

Not yet

But applying soon to Ph.D programs.

But more interested in Labor and Macro and IO than International.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Funny seeing all the people angry about Hillary's college plan from families making under 125k because their family makes too much money.

It's almost as if, they didn't even read the other parts of the college plan that would still make college more affordable and significantly reign in the mount of debt they would be in once they graduate regardless of how much their family makes.

 

[East Lake]

I'm pretty sure you're talking to economist.

That makes it even worse tbh. Aren't you an economist? Do you think Bernie Sander's policies are functionally equivalent to the Iraq sanctions?

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/mar/04/weekend7.weekend9

 

[TestOfTide]

I've largely avoided Sanders news/convo, but some might find this interesting..



(Sorry for the odd formatting; this is to be read from bottom to top. Twitter.. sigh..)

Even better than my media suggestion a few days ago. He's getting flak directly from his colleagues.

 

[ampere]

I had a mini-freakout yesterday about Trump winning.

The only reason I have insurance is because of the ACA. Without it, I'm screwed six ways to Sunday. I have to go have some tests run, and I'm like freaking out knowing the copay, high as it is, is doable, but without insurance the $2000 for an MRI would be out of my range right now. $100 copay? Fuck ya, I'm in.

Yeah I don't think some voters on the right realize how much the ACA has helped people.

Pure and unrestricted capitalism being applied to healthcare is pretty disgusting, but maybe they just don't get it until it affects them or someone close to them.

There's an older hispanic lady in my group therapy who was in tears yesterday talking about how she can't afford an important operation, and we talked to her about some options she has that can *likely* get her the surgery she needs, but those wouldn't be possible without the ACA. I think we still have a long way to go, particularly on making these disability assistance programs more clear to people (RE: Obama forgiving student loan debt for people on disability because some were still paying it, not realizing they could get out of it), but I'm really proud of what we've accomplished in Obama's presidency. I'm glad that even though I was skeptical of government healthcare programs in 2008 I decided to vote for the man I thought was more intellectual and more compassionate. I was a dumb kid lol.

Some folks would rather have lower taxes and leave people who need healthcare to rot? It's like, oneofadamsnopedraggifs.gif

 

[User 463088]

goodness you have a myriad of health problems. Has that been that way since childhood.

Actually, it's not that bad. My eye problem is genetic and kind of rare. Other than that, I just have complex migraines that manifest themselves really weirdly. I also have disc disease that's hereditary but meh. It is what it is.

Glad you're doing better now.😃

Thank you friend.

Pls don't die adam, you haven't been shown the way of pizza lovers yet.

I don't plan on dying....

Oh, I'm doing fine now. The surgery was for a removal of a strong case Gynecomastia that I had been dealing with for about 12 years. It's such a huge relief to finally get it over with.
.

Glad you're doing well then.

 

[Diablos]

Bernie stands a good chance of never endorsing and hurting Hillary big. He's confirmed that he only cares about himself and his agenda and not making sure we don't hand over the keys to Trump. He's a liar btw. You don't say you'll do everything you can to prevent Trump from winning to saying behind closed doors that it's not about winning elections.

I also really think besides being full of himself, he's quite crazy.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Bernie stands a good chance of never endorsing and hurting Hillary big. He's confirmed that he only cares about himself and his agenda and not making sure we don't hand over the keys to Trump. He's a liar btw. You don't say you'll do everything you can to prevent Trump from winning to saying behind closed doors that it's not about winning elections.

I also really think besides being full of himself, he's quite crazy.

Diablos its going to be okay. Bernie is not needed anymore.

 

[ampere]

Do any of the "I hate both choices!" "Douche vs. Turd!" people ever try to get political campaigns to start up for ranked choice voting or anything else that would help third and fourth parties thrive? Even Dr. Jill Stein is smart enough to understand that the voting system needs to change to help third-parties actually be relevant.

It feels like South Park "moderates" are just lazy people sometimes or are people that don't want to admit to having beliefs out of insecurity.

"Fellow co-creator Matt Stone sums up their views with the comment: I hate conservatives but I really fucking hate liberals."

This xkcd comic sums up the South Park creators and anyone who joins their "I hate both" bandwagon:

I mean you're talking about people who hate safe spaces, while the show is literally a safe space for people who don't want to intellectually challenge themselves by looking at life with a different perspective.

 

[Holmes]

I'm tired of talking about Bernie Sanders. It'll all work out. Until then no one other than political junkies are really talking about him.

 

[studyguy]

Sander already giving the college plan a thumbs up on twitter.
The plane has been landing, he's just waiting for the last second. It's been over.

Seriously though Trump denying the Corker VP withdrawal bit is hard to understand. How does a campaign deny a statement like that?

 

[campfireweekend]

That makes it even worse tbh. Aren't you an economist? Do you think Bernie Sander's policies are functionally equivalent to the Iraq sanctions?

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/mar/04/weekend7.weekend9

I don't think Bernie wants to ban exports, so while I believe under a sanders administration he may limit trade from countries with a history of labor violations or low wages, he wouldn't stop America's ability to export medical equipment such as what Iraq lacked, that is if we manufacture any as I'm pretty sure Germany is a big part of that sector.

I didn't actually know the situation, those sanctions seem pretty targeted and a bit vindictive. Sanctions were integral in bringing Iran to the table though, mostly because of the way they hampered Iran's ability to participate in international trade, so I'd want to look at the texts that outlined each to come to a better judgment.

 

[User 463088]

PPP has the generic congressional ballot at Dem +6, YouGov has it at +9

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Bernie can't stop calling Wolf Blitzer Jake. He even corrected him and he keeps doing it. Mess.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

LMAO Bernie has just called Wolf Blitzer "Jake" twice.

 

[Diablos]

Bernie can't stop calling Wolf Blitzer Jake. He even corrected him and he keeps doing it. Mess.

Busy trying to land the plane lolamirite

 

[TestOfTide]

Sander already giving the college plan a thumbs up on twitter.
The plane has been landing, he's just waiting for the last second. It's been over.

I've already lost most of my respect for Bernie, but I just hope that democrats telling him what an idiot he is was the direct slap in the face he needed to come to his senses.

If he doesn't endorse Clinton before the convention then I hope that the DNC runs a democrat for his senate seat.

 

[Teggy]

3rd degree burns!

Evan Halper ‏@evanhalper 1h1 hour ago
"If your gov. would do his job instead of following Donald Trump around carrying his coat.. " @HillaryClinton says in Atlantic City
34 retweets 76 likes

The pool is dwindling...

Burgess EverettVerified account
‏@burgessev
In interview, @SenJoniErnst says she's focused on Iowa and all but removes herself from VP consideration

 

[VendettaRed07]

So now we are at

15$ minimum wage

In state public college free to families making under 125k

modern version of the glass steagall act..

All part of the dem platform now. And yet.. "these are "moderate" concessions, still not liberal enough. Why should I believe them? Not doing enough to earn my vote!"

This is these people. This is exactly what they look like.

 

[Maledict]

LOL



Well he does have a lot of delegates.

Looks like Joni Ernst also has a speaking slot.

He'll do a Christie and spend 20 minutes of prime time television talking about himself and conservative values and attacking Hillary. Bet he doesn't even name Trump.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Do any of the "I hate both choices!" "Douche vs. Turd!" people ever try to get political campaigns to start up for ranked choice voting or anything else that would help third and fourth parties thrive? Even Dr. Jill Stein is smart enough to understand that the voting system needs to change to help third-parties actually be relevant.

It feels like South Park "moderates" are just lazy people sometimes or are people that don't want to admit to having beliefs out of insecurity.

Yes. The people who so proudly proclaim they are independents are generally full of shit. That South Park episode was fucking terrible.

 

[nature boy]

Matea GoldVerified account
‏@mateagold
Breaking: Trump raises $51 million in June, including $26 million for campaign

Sad!

Chris Cillizza ‏@TheFix 16m16 minutes ago
Clinton raised $40.5 million for her campaign and $28 million for DNC in June, $68.5 million total.

 

[pigeon]

Sure, but why does it have to be universal? This kind of thinking smacks of the same Bernie sanders reasoning where we make all college free, a move which has been tried and disproportionately helps the upper middle class.

If we want to eliminate poverty, why give everyone extra money? Which not just Institute a negative income tax? Liberals are allowed to have targeted solutions, we don't need grand social experiments to eliminate poverty, just a stronger welfare state.

We talked about this before, and I unfortunately have not learned a bunch about various forms of transfer payments since last time.

I don't see huge practical differences between a basic income and a negative income tax, although I worry about welfare trap issues.

Can you explain the important distinctions a bit? Obviously with a negative income tax the income scales to 0 at a certain threshold.

 

[studyguy]

Not gonna believe that Trump funding till I see the ads shake out of it.

 

[Maledict]

That's surprisingly high for Trump, and a much larger amount than I was expecting. They must actually be starting to do real election stuff!

 

[NeoXChaos]

Cesare you said Trump was out of money

 

[ampere]

Hillary fixed up Trump's response:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cmso5FYWcAABZsz.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Queen can't stop, won't stop. Oh god

[quote="whyamihere, post: 209301484"]Uh.

[url]https://twitter.com/mollymotoole/status/750738828164464641[/url]

The source was an interview with Bob Corker![/QUOTE]

I'm just confused. This is like the Saddam praise, where is this coming from and what's the point???

 

[nature boy]

Yes his fundraising for June is surprisingly good.

But his did say this:

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 14h14 hours ago
Raised a lot of money for the Republican Party. There will be a big gasp when the figures are announced in the morning. Lots of support! Win

 

[Emarv]

Oh My God, it's really gonna be Newt, isn't it?

IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT

 

[User 463088]

Oh My God, it's really gonna be Newt, isn't it?

IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT

Does god love us that much?

 

[FloydtheFathead]

Oh My God, it's really gonna be Newt, isn't it?

IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT

Everything's coming up Milhouse

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Morning Consult poll suggests "economic anxiety" isn't the cause of hatred of immigrants.

Otherwise "economy" would rank much higher.

And this graph would look wildly different. Most immigrants from the Middle East become pretty well off people that don't compete at all with the white working class.

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/6/12098622/immigration-worries-economy-security

 

[thefro]

That's surprisingly high for Trump, and a much larger amount than I was expecting. They must actually be starting to do real election stuff!

We need the deets to see how much of that is real donations and how much is a Trump loan (probably a few million).

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Boom. Trump's about to rope-a-dope. Had you all thinking he couldn't make money. He's a billionaire! He could run a fundraiser in his dreams. Clinton in trouble.

 

[HylianTom]

Politico: Ernst all but withdraws from Trump veepstakes

Joni Ernst all but removed herself from Donald Trump’s vice presidential search, telling POLITICO in an interview that she wants to help Trump become president but that she’s focused on Iowa and the Senate, where the freshman senator said she's “just getting started.”

The GOP senator met with Trump on Monday and received effusive praise afterward, with Trump predicting he will “see her again.” But it likely won’t be as his running mate on the trail.

“I made that very clear to him that I’m focused on Iowa. I feel that I have a lot more to do in the United States Senate. And Iowa is where my heart is,” Ernst said Wednesday. “I’m just getting started here. I have a great partner with Chuck Grassley, we’ve been able to accomplish a lot. And I think that President Trump will need some great assistance in the United States Senate and I can provide that.”

Wow. This might be happening.

 

[campfireweekend]

We talked about this before, and I unfortunately have not learned a bunch about various forms of transfer payments since last time.

I don't see huge practical differences between a basic income and a negative income tax, although I worry about welfare trap issues.

Can you explain the important distinctions a bit? Obviously with a negative income tax the income scales to 0 at a certain threshold.

Oh, we did! I think the biggest thing for me, if this is truly universal, is that if you give everyone say $20000, what have you actually done to alleviate poverty or effect the income distribution? Really all you've done is raise the bar of what can be considered poverty, and capitalism has done a pretty swell job of that so far, so theres no need for a radical departure.

If it's not universal, and you give everyone under a certain threshold that $20k and leave everyone else the same, how do you take away benefits as their incomes rise? It's kinda like the welfare trap right now. I know this is a meme about Americans not understanding progressive income taxes, but for certain incomes in the lower spectrum, a raise will ensure that you have less money for basic necessities.

How do we ensure that a UBI doesn't have a negative incentive structure like that?

An NIT is just a lot less messy for me. It comes builtin with a minimum income a person will receive if they have no job, and ensures that the act of taking a job will always raise their incomes, and to an appreciable degree. There is never a moment with an NIT where workers are disincentivized from getting a raise, or moving to a higher paying job, as their wage will always rise.

So in summary, either you give a UBI to everyone, in which case there are inflationary expectations that need be explored, and all you've done is raise where relative poverty is located, which is what capitalism does, refrigerator.jpg, or you only give it to poor people, and then you need to explore how you take it away as their incomes rise and whether it disincentivizes a higher paying job.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

how accurate was the media on palin/biden/paul? i'm pretty sure nobody called palin right?

 

[B-Dubs]

Oh My God, it's really gonna be Newt, isn't it?

IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT

I never realized the universe actually loved me this much.

 

[User1608]

Oh My God, it's really gonna be Newt, isn't it?

IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT IT'S GONNA BE NEWT

It's going to be fantastic.

 

[User 463088]

how accurate was the media on palin/biden/paul? i'm pretty sure nobody called palin right?

No one called or vetted her. This is correct.

 

[B-Dubs]

No one called or vetted her. This is correct.

Palin was literally out of left field I think, no one saw that coming.

 

[Geg]

What possessed McCain's team to pick her