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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour
- Thread starter Retromelon
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Tells you a lot about the people who think he "Says it like it is" really. If you have that disgusting a worldview...
He lost by every voting and delegate metric, and by significantly more than Hillary lost to Obama. He lost even though he spent more money than Hillary. He lost even though he went more negative than Hillary. He lost even though he had the "revolution" on his side.
What has he proven? What will he ultimately actually change? Anything?
At best I think you could claim Hillary adjusted her messaging on a couple of issues, though I don't see how she really changed her platform materially at all. And I don't see where Bernie now has the leverage or the allies to get the Democrats to change the party platform.
Indeed. We cannot allow this man to become pressing. We will not only put ourselves at risk, but the entire world with the antagonism he exhibits. This is one incredibly frightening election. This makes the last 3 look small because of the great potential he has to screw everything up.
I have no time to coddle people "supporting" his platform for our sake and safety.
Absolutely correct. Bernie's has been a fake revolution from the start, and by the end of everything he will have accomplished absolutely nothing except that people talked about him for a few extra months and then forgot about him in a slightly more delayed timeline. Nobody will be talking about him in six months.
No no this is the, he wasnt supposed to win so when he didn't win he actually won argument
Anyway, all his talk is just bullshit to feed to the stupid part of his base so when he does endorse her next week is because brother Bernie got what he wanted from her
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not sure what that has to do with "punishing bankers". Unless you're saying the proposed tax is purely vindictive. The tax on trades is ostensibly aimed at reducing what's seen as risky/unproductive behaviour as well as to raise revenue. And it's being imposed on legal behaviour regardless.
Which leads back to the question of "punishing bankers" which when Clinton has said it, has referred to that she'll go after illegal behaviour. In the same way that Sanders has said he'd go after illegal behaviour, but also said that he'd somehow retroactively punish bankers for unnamed, unspecified crimes that he claims were committed without being able to point to a particular statute.
And yes, he lost. Walls of text don't change that he lost.
Testify!!!
I think he will concede this week, if he gets blown out in DC that just makes the optics even worse
Officerrob
Banned
Hillary will be on Morning Joe soon
Stop diablosing about Bernie and wait until later this week. He'll drop out after DC
You could start today by posting your first funny thing!
You could start today by posting your first funny thing!
I don't think what he said yesterday was anything more than posturing for an acceptable exit to his supporters and something he has to do
Officerrob
Banned
Hillary on Morning Joe now (on the phone)
Yeah I'm just saying until he drops out he's obviously gonna say stuff like "imma badass I will get my platform!!"
If he said "I'm gonna have a formal meeting with Hillary and then drop out", THAT would be shocking.
I bet Hillary gives him some small concession he can use to make it look like he won
If he said "I'm gonna have a formal meeting with Hillary and then drop out", THAT would be shocking.
I bet Hillary gives him some small concession he can use to make it look like he won
If Trump gets a boost from this...
metalslimer
Member
Stop worrying about Bernie. Everyone has moved on.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I am glad Hillary is not getting into the discussion about radical Islam. Say it, it's a losing argument to have. One area where I disagree with Obama too.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Hillary is one of the most recognizable people in the world, Sanders is a nobody from a place nobody seems to give a shit about.
That alone tells you everything about it.
Obama had hundred and hundreds of millions from his SuperPAC and he was groomed by a massive effort in the party. Sanders run on a party he doesn't even belong to. The delegates, senators and renowned democrats who all went for Clinton before it even began, really tells you how big a deal a name is. Trump is only here because of his name too.
And American politics have been exceptional at honoring famous people who have no business in politics, like when Arnold became gov. That shouldn't be able to happen, but it does because people vote for whoever they recognize on TV.
Like the Support for Trump shows, many people are just not paying attention beyond who they recognize or hear repeat their stump speeches.
Maybe. But there are a whole bunch of posters here who said this would happen after Super Tuesday.
Income inequality is going to get worse, and I have not seen Hillary having any plans to address it. Bernie might be forgotten but this ghost will reemerge in 2020 unless something drastic is done.
Things are, if they continue going to be a lot worse. Housing markets are going to get worse. You're gonna see a lot more poor students become angry at the stagnation, and they are going to blame Hillary and establishment democrats for not taking care of them, while they got theirs.
The problem with going after illegal behavior is that it's one of those remarks that every presidential candidate makes because it's self evident. If people abuse the system they should be punished. Obama ran on a similar policy, but nobody has crucified despite the incredible damage that has been done. The banks benefited tremendously through shadow banking of wall street speculation from the safety of tax exempt havens. I think the idea was that Sanders would get a tax from these banking institutions, hedge funds, investment banks as well as the repo market, would be a form of punishment.
We have to remember; there is being made changes to the US tax code every day. It's infamous for being complicated and open to abuse. I'm very pessimistic that they are going to make this better. Too much corruption within all levels of government. I think they would be more okay with accepting a 0,5% taxation on nearly everything. It cuts into profits, but is probably a better pill to swallow than fight of idealistic pie-in-the-sky proposals, that I am sure they would argue kill jobs, growth and label as anti globalization.
I am just waiting to see how he words his concession speech and endorsement of Hillary. If he dares hedges his bets with the language he utilizes, any last shred of dignity he could hope to keep will finally evaporate and he won't even be relegated to a footnote in History. I hope Hillary intentionally ignores his platform after that and, if I'm dreaming, I hope she will also take a huge shit on his chest after that for being an asshole.
Vigilant Walrus said:
I hope so, and I hope we get a true socialist candidate too to defend these values... one who understands how to get things done, and hasn't passed three pieces of fucking legislation in decades of work. That'd be awesome. We simply dodged a bullet that this asshole wasn't the one to win, so that true socialist values weren't destroyed behind his ego-driven conspiracy bullshit.
If he did win, we wouldn't have had a chance at a true socialist for the next forty years.
whyamihere
Banned
It was cool to wake up to the Republican nominee say imply that Obama is a terrorist sympathesizer.
(Again, something Trump and Republicans have said and implied before. It's still stunning.)
(Again, something Trump and Republicans have said and implied before. It's still stunning.)
cartoon_soldier
Member
I think he will. Driven by gain in white voters.
gutter_trash
Banned
there Hillary said the words: "we have to defeat radical Jihadist terrorism or radical Islamic terrorism, whatever you wanna call it"
Finally
Finally
Officerrob
Banned
Hillary was pitch perfect on Morning Joe
yes she said words that don't even accurately capture what is going on things are going to change now!
Thanks Trump!
Yeah, that implies that he's winning the messaging war. God dammit why is this fucker the nominee? GOP should be ashamed.
nature boy
Member
This guy:
gutter_trash
Banned
The biggest complaint Right Wingers have on Obama is skirting around the specific type of radical terrorism. Give the Right Wingers that ammunition of using the "political correctness gone wrong" argument
Hillary being specific about it is a good step forward on specificity.
You don't want this to be her Dukakis moment at the GE debates. A debate on the "naming convention" will hurt her. It is best to put it to rest and just call it specifically for what it is.
whyamihere
Banned
Yeah, I've always found the semantic argument on "radical Islamic terrorism" was a political loser for Democrats and made them look weak and diverts from the lack of coherent strategy on the right.
That tells me and most others that he would lose, by a considerable margin, which he ultimately did.
He was expected to lose, and he did.
So, how did he win? What did he prove other than no amount of Twitter and Facebook "excitement" actually matters in relation to who turns up to actually vote?
Trump won, against expectation, running a campaign by the seat of his pants and spouting unconventional rhetoric every step of the way. He did actually prove something, and will change how future campaigns are run and analyzed.
Unlike Bernie.
metalslimer
Member
Obama is speaking from a point of compassion, but this is not an argument the left is going to win unfortunately. I don't care what she calls it as long as she stomps Donald Trump's racist ass into the ground
Who gives a motherfucking shit what dirtbag rightwingers want on this subjet? They were never voting Hillary anyway, and their political ideology is being led by an out and out xenophobic, racist, misogynistic, authoritarian piece of garbage. Seriously, after this primary season who gives a shit what they think?
Let's stop taking advice from these low lives and move on to a better future without these asshats. This election season has been a gamechanger. It has revealed there is no need to be held hostage by these animals. They are increasingly irrelevant, and soon will have little power outside of the House. And that will eventually evaporate too.
gutter_trash
Banned
when it comes to national security and anti-terror. The Right-of-Center people close to the Center will get pulled Rightwards
I know how suburbanites think. You don't want a "naming convention" debate that will be the Dukakis moment at the debate.
Watch how far it gets them.
thestopsign
Member
You realize that Hillary wants to take out SuperPACs too right? This is a pretty common platform point for all democrats. Bernie is not a unique little butterfly fighting against the will of the DNC to get money out of politics.
I find it stupid. It's just a small point that Republicans use to attack Obama and the left to distract people from bigger issues regarding domestic terrorism and gun control.
Black Republican
Member
Hilary says Radical Jihadism?
about time
about time
nature boy
Member
Heh pretty much:
AHAHAHAHAHA
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/inside-the-gop-trump-dilemma
AHAHAHAHAHA
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/inside-the-gop-trump-dilemma
Black Republican
Member
oh, back in the senate afterall eh?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Yup, gives him the perfect opportunity to do so.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
We won't get anything near Hillary's 08 concession speech. Bernie does not have that kind of humility or speaking capacity. I know he'll be going hard anti-Trump, but he does have some fences to mend with his supporters. I'm setting my expectations low, he just doesn't inspire much confidence in that regard.
Yeah. I agree with how Obama says it, but I guess it's just politically unpopular.
Is Rubio about to grow a spine? I know adam was saying he gave a legit good statement yesterday.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
You have to remember that the United States, two major parties has a history of picking up the legislative political positions by third parties, and then running on those causes as their own.
It usually goes like this; A underdog candidate who is perceived to not be corrupt and who speaks for the equality of the people, champions an idea and asks the wealthy elite to share their wealth.
A lot of the largest progress that has ever made in the united states was popularized by independents and third parties, that the republicans and democrats then started running with as their own issue.
It's why I think, Bernies success comes down to if his followers actually stay engaged in politics beyond this election. If Sanders just die down and people stop talking about this, it gives of the impression that people who supported him were not willing to be politically engaged beyond the election, and what would that matter?
Sanders himself have said time and time again that he couldn't change anything without the ability pushing for change, protesting, being politically mobilized in the millions, like the labour movement was post-the great depression as life got so hard for so many Americans that people were forced out on the fringes.
We've seen this play out over and over outside the united states too. And in that sense I don't think you can say yet if Bernie Sanders has failed.
Sanders is not charismatic, a great politician, a great talker or a great strategist. He didnt run on a well coordinated campaign. He was just a guy, who has some good policies and make some acute observations and who was riding on a anti-establishment wave as it usually appears as a populace feels they have less than they feel entitled to.
We're so predictable in our response to these things.
Yes. I think this is where Hillary Supporters and Bernie supporters differ. Hillary supporters and optimism and believe Hillary is sincerer and is only using SuperPACs herself to keep the republicans from winning.
This is where the accusations against Sanders come in. That he is a purity test shithead who think he is so high and mighty because he doesn't take SuperPACs. His supporters argue that Hillary is a hypocrite for saying that SuperPACs and Citizen United is a problem, and still using it to be carried into the White House.
So this is the gift of the struggle, mistrust and difference of opinion between the two.
Personally I think both groups can learn from each other.
At one hand, Hillary Supporters are right that specific proof is needed for specific levels of mistrust, and as there is none, the pessimism and mistrust should be checkered a bit before declaring Hillary or anyone who is engaged in SuperPACs a shill.
On the other hand, Sanders supporters are not wrong when they claim that it is problematic relationship and the solution might come from a candidate who is not beholden to anyone. I've posted this clip before, but as John Stewart puts it; https://youtu.be/WLuM7wCWZvg?t=1m59s
I feel conflicted. Because I want to believe the best in people. But at the same time I am concerned about her. Very concerned. I am cynical enough to think that those who have endorsed her through the Clinton Foundation, or the millions she has gotten through lobbying is not anymore uncompromised and free than what NRA, ExxonMobile, AIPAC and other groups lobby hard for to get their way and have people vote against the peoples best interest.
But being concerned and scared about worst case scenarios doesn't, mean anything, and I'd never call Hillary a shill. I'm just disturbed by the process. Where I am from it is not allowed to give large contributions, and news outlets don't endorse, and there is no institutions like the RNC or the DNC, and there are 8-9 parties, and every election has a shift in power as coalitions are formed the spectrum in different ways, and you get all sorts of parties from radical democrats, to conservatives, to parties that are fun mixes of left and right wing policies, or a right wing party but which is very liberal on certain issues, and vice versa.
It's just in my nature to look at the American election and be very scared. Also because American politics has a way of influencing things other places. Like the TPP. Hillary is against the TPP. When people don't trust her on it, it's basically a conspiracy theory. A feeling. Hillary Supporters have the higher moral highground when they tell Bernie supporters to strap up or fuck off.
On the other hand, it is probably Bernie supporters privilege to condemn everyone to hell if some of Sanders fears turn out to be true. Problem with that is, that it would not have been a product of Hillary but just a predictable outcome of the stagnation any economy face as income inequality increases. We're already at unprecedented levels with no stop in sight. Hillary and Sanders supporters have different ideas about how harsh the economic downturn will hit.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
:O
This is too much. Christie has had his stomach restapled a couple of times also hasn't he? And he is fetching fast food? A presidential candidate?
I love this. This man is incredible.
Shit eats shit fetched by shit. Oh shit
thestopsign
Member
Man your posts are hard on the eyes.
One thing you have to consider is that Hillary will be center stage for the next 4 years. It will be very obvious if she attempts to achieve her platform goals or if she simply waves them off soon as elected. I am sure that many of us would condemn her actions if she doesn't follow through, but we have no reason not to believe her at this point.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
This unrelenting march to the right from the republicans has to stop somewhere. I'm really hoping Trump loses and the party collapses in on itself, because this kind of fascist and war-mongering rhetoric contributes nothing toward solving our problems. I'm worried that if the party is intact after 2016, the republicans are just going to nominate an even more hardline candidate in 2020 and try to stack congress with fascists too. That's a scary future, and hopefully demographics and popular opinion shift away from them fast enough to lock that kind of ideology out of elected office.
Sorry for rambling. Just had to expel some thoughts.
Sorry for rambling. Just had to expel some thoughts.
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