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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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kess

Member
If Trump figures that his presence is enough to win the election and mobilize his base, he's probably right in assuming that he won't take much of a penalty, if any, at the polls this November. If he wins, he doesn't have to worry about having an ad-hoc infrastructure, and if he loses, he can just fuck off and blame the GOP.

I'll go a bit farther here and argue that people who were involved in the Obama campaign apparatus managed to pull things through for Hillary in the primaries, because having a strong organizational presence keeps people involved in the party for the long term and prevents a constant ideological lurch every four years.

Stavrides might make an ideal Defense Secretary. He's articulate, has great NATO bona-fides, and has enough of a opposing viewpoint on certain issues that he could provide an interesting counterpoint in Hillary's cabinet.
 

Iolo

Member

So keep those numbers mind, Florida is close and will be close. But the shifts in the Q poll are more due to the variances in the way Q polls Florida, not that the state is subject to big swings.

OK... so what exactly are the variances and methodology that is causing these shifts? That is never explained, just asserted.
 
Mobilizing people is a better strategy to get votes than reaching across the isle in an attempt to court #neverTrump voters. If they do that it'll tell me that the democrats and Hillary have seemingly learned nothing over the past twenty years.

Hillary doesn't do nearly as well with, or excite, two groups as she should be. 1) Democrats, 2) Women.

Warren helps lock down, mobilize and excite both. She has a much better chance at reaching out to those people who just wouldn't vote than would be Mitt Romney voters had he been the nominee this cycle.

And again regardless of how rational and reasonable this guy is, his position alone will send Warning signs to democrats who already think she is too much of a War Hawk that she intends to get us in another ground war in the middle east the day she is elected rather than boost our economy our help out with our educational system or really any domestic policy issues we have here
 
I do agree with this. This could be the moment when the gender gap is solidified. At the same time, I can understand her campaign's hesitance to pick a woman for VP. Still a lot of misogyny in this country they need to navigate and they may not want to make it harder than they have to.

I hear you, but as an Obama '08 supporter I was a lot more scared about racism then than I am about sexism now. The GOP is giving us a chance to define the electorate as "competent women and those who are cool with them" vs "people who get irrationally angry at competent women," and I think that is too big a potential win to pass up. You know the conservatives will go overboard like they always do. Except this time 60-y-o white grandmas won't be able to ignore it the way they ignore it when great-uncle Pete shares a racist photoshop of Obama. Everyone knows a competent woman. Most everyone has a competent woman in their family. And a wedge issue that works in every congressional district and every state is the best wedge issue you could ever ask for. Warren all the way!
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Mobilizing people is a better strategy to get votes than reaching across the isle in an attempt to court #neverTrump voters. If they do that it'll tell me that the democrats and Hillary have seemingly learned nothing over the past twenty years.

Hillary doesn't do nearly as well with, or excite, two groups as she should be. 1) Democrats, 2) Women.

Warren helps lock down, mobilize and excite both. She has a much better chance at reaching out to those people who just wouldn't vote than would be Mitt Romney voters had he been the nominee this cycle.

And again regardless of how rational and reasonable this guy is, his position alone will send Warning signs to democrats who already think she is too much of a War Hawk that she intends to get us in another ground war in the middle east the day she is elected rather than boost our economy our help out with our educational system or really any domestic policy issues we have here

The question is going to come down to which her campaign thinks they need to court more: the far left who are convinced she wants to start 3 dozen wars or the center who feel like she's too far to the left for them.

I hear you, but as an Obama '08 supporter I was a lot more scared about racism then than I am about sexism now. The GOP is giving us a chance to define the electorate as "competent women and those who are cool with them" vs "people who get irrationally angry at competent women," and I think that is too big a potential win to pass up. You know the conservatives will go overboard like they always do. Except this time 60-y-o white grandmas won't be able to ignore it the way they ignore it when great-uncle Pete shares a racist photoshop of Obama. Everyone knows a competent woman. Most everyone has a competent woman in their family. And a wedge issue that works in every congressional district and every state is the best wedge issue you could ever ask for. Warren all the way!

If it were 2020 I'd agree 100% instead of only 70%. There's still a fair amount of misogyny ingrained in society that we don't even acknowledge is there for her team to deal with. I'd rather they pick Warren too, but I do get the thinking if they don't.
 
Mobilizing people is a better strategy to get votes than reaching across the isle in an attempt to court #neverTrump voters. If they do that it'll tell me that the democrats and Hillary have seemingly learned nothing over the past twenty years.

Hillary doesn't do nearly as well with, or excite, two groups as she should be. 1) Democrats, 2) Women.

Warren helps lock down, mobilize and excite both. She has a much better chance at reaching out to those people who just wouldn't vote than would be Mitt Romney voters had he been the nominee this cycle.

And again regardless of how rational and reasonable this guy is, his position alone will send Warning signs to democrats who already think she is too much of a War Hawk that she intends to get us in another ground war in the middle east the day she is elected rather than boost our economy our help out with our educational system or really any domestic policy issues we have here

How is this that much different from saying Trump just needs to enthuse the hell out of white people and males and he can win without anyone else? The left and right think firing up the base is the answer but that's more true in a 30% turnout congressional election than a general one.
 

pigeon

Banned
You know what kills me? All of you dweebs were so incredulous and beyond yourselves last week when a few polls came out that said the margin was tightening and absolutely could not believe it. It was so funny to everyone and many laughs were had.

And now this week Diablos is shrieking!

How ridiculous of us to wait for more data and then, once that data arrives, identify and respond to a likely trend!
 
I keep looking for where Trump is making up ground but in reality his numbers aren't the ones going anywhere, it's who is refusing to voice support for Clinton that seems to be the bigger factor.

He's losing blacks, hispanics, white women, college educated voters, and all the other groups but when 20% of people polled say they are undecided or other it doesn't help to look at crosstabs.
 

pigeon

Banned
I keep looking for where Trump is making up ground but in reality his numbers aren't the ones going anywhere, it's who is refusing to voice support for Clinton that seems to be the bigger factor.

He's losing blacks, hispanics, white women, college educated voters, and all the other groups but when 20% of people polled say they are undecided or other it doesn't help to look at crosstabs.

That is actually a good sign though.

If Trump didn't gain but a bunch of people just switched to undecided that means, guess what, Clinton had a bad news cycle and a bunch of people are pretending that they might not vote for her.

They'll be back. They always come back.

Let's look at some polls after the RNC and DNC.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
That is actually a good sign though.

If Trump didn't gain but a bunch of people just switched to undecided that means, guess what, Clinton had a bad news cycle and a bunch of people are pretending that they might not vote for her.

They'll be back. They always come back.

Let's look at some polls after the RNC and DNC.

Pretty much. There's no use worrying about these numbers until after the conventions take place and everyone comes home on both sides.
 
How is this that much different from saying Trump just needs to enthuse the hell out of white people and males and he can win without anyone else? The left and right think firing up the base is the answer but that's more true in a 30% turnout congressional election than a general one.

It's different because the numbers are actually there demographically on the democratic side for it to work.

Mobilizing the base doesn't work if your base has been reduced to white men only. Which is where they are trending.
 
The entire Trump team is in Indiana because Trump wants Christie.

Kushner hates Christie because he put his dad in jail and wants Gingrich.
Manafort wants Pence and sees that slipping away from him.
His pollster wants Flynn.

Trump wants to make his decision today. Oh my god.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
The entire Trump team is in Indiana because Trump wants Christie.

Kushner hates Christie because he put his dad in jail and wants Gingrich.
Manafort wants Pence and sees that slipping away from him.
His pollster wants Flynn.

Trump wants to make his decision today. Oh my god.

This is literally the apprentice. I imagine whoever doesn't get their pick chosen is going to be fired.
 
The entire Trump team is in Indiana because Trump wants Christie.

Kushner hates Christie because he put his dad in jail and wants Gingrich.
Manafort wants Pence and sees that slipping away from him.
His pollster wants Flynn.

Trump wants to make his decision today. Oh my god.

CITATION NEEDED
 
Aren't Hillary's numbers with white women better than Obama's?

She's the first female nominee of a major party. So she should be doing better than Obama; but she isn't doing as well as she could. Especially considering who she is running against.

Polls I've seen have her around 50% with women now. Or slightly lower/higher. Doubling down on that and winning there is the best strategy to win imo.
 
The entire Trump team is in Indiana because Trump wants Christie.

Kushner hates Christie because he put his dad in jail and wants Gingrich.
Manafort wants Pence and sees that slipping away from him.
His pollster wants Flynn.

Trump wants to make his decision today. Oh my god.

SOURCE

GO CHRISTIE

I MEAN NEWT
 
Hillary is leading Trump among white people in Colorado in that Monmouth poll.

How baked is that state to be this liberal?



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2596359

The poll included one day of polling after the Sanders endorsement.

The most misunderstood aspect of "white people vote Republican" is that this is true in aggregate because Southern white people vote in enormous numbers for Republicans, but this is not the case nationally.

Colorado is turning more blue in Presidential elections even though it is very white because it is also a very white college educated state.

Trump is leaking college educated whites all over the nation making Colorado ripe for Hillary.

In reality, when we say "white people hate blah" or "white people are blah" it's really "Southern white people." It's a mostly regional phenomenon. The rest of the nation is not nearly as divided in this regard.

Nah, I mean, actually these polls are pretty bad. That is a wide move across a variety of polls.

Clinton is still generally leading and is still generally favored but these polls are Obama/Romney polls, not dumpster fires polls.

I agree. There is definite movement against Hillary again, which is likely due to the negative news regarding the e-mail stuff.

But I don't think they indicate any change in the race of significance. Sure, Q in Fla was bad but I don't trust them and the aggregate (I'm going to ignore the garbage Fla polls commisioned by GOPers that give hispanics 8% of the vote and I don't give a fuck if that's "wrong" because that is propaganda, not math) is still good for her. I contend it's not a swing state.

There's probably some movement away and some randomness going on but that's fine.

I think Hillary's numbers will only go up once the DNC comes around. I really believe Trump could hurt himself in the RNC for the first time ever.



Some of the reporting on polling is awful. For instance, if a poll had Hillary + 6 2 weeks ago and now has Hillary +3, that does not mean she lost support! If a pollster ran 3 independent polls in the same state at the same time, the probability of getting the same numbers all 3 times is pretty fucking low. It's how polling works. It's why we look at aggregates. But the reporters and even pollsters themselves write things like "We find support has dropped from 2 weeks ago." No, you did not find any such thing. Sure, Q can make that claim because it's an 11 point swing but the other polls like Marist cannot. A 3 point drop does NOT indicate any movement at all.




We go through this every election cycle. To quote Sam Hinkie, trust the process. Don't freak out. Some people were freaking out in 2012 and if you get that itch, remember the steady hand Pigeon and myself had for everyone.

We can look at the crosstabs and see if there's potentially any flaws. But we will look at the aggregate and we will look at the demographics of the state and we will be wise to remain calm.



BTW, the RAND corporation is going to do their polling again soon. Remember that one, with like 3500 people divided over 7 days every week? Yeah, it was the most accurate national poll in the election (in terms of differences) and I bet it will be again because its methodology seems sound and it's a different approach. I'll be posting updates to that regularly when it starts up.

https://alpdata.rand.org/index.php?page=election2016

If the 2012 model shows us anything, it's that the "tightening" first wave happened exactly now. Then there's separation in early August til the RNC (which is earlier this time around) and then the tightening til DNC and then it mostly stayed apart.
https://alpdata.rand.org/index.php?page=election2012

Once labor day comes around, the polling will start to homogenize and you'll be seeing a clearer snapshot of the election.



TL;DR I'm not worried at all. And until Black Mamba worries, you shouldn't either (and I was worried in 2014, mind you).
 

Slayven

Member
There are going to be quite a lot of pretty disappointed people who enter the ballot and find out she isn't on it. Since there's a 1/3 chance the state won't have her on the ballot (iirc, she's only on 30 of the ballots this year)

I imagine a lot of

3981533-6503022817-39686.gif


At polls and election boards
 
There are going to be quite a lot of pretty disappointed people who enter the ballot and find out she isn't on it. Since there's a 1/3 chance the state won't have her on the ballot (iirc, she's only on 30 of the ballots this year)

That's just because of fraud, though. If you like wish really hard, the revolution will happen and she's on the ballot
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
If Trump picks Christie, who should Hillary pick?
 
The entire Trump team is in Indiana because Trump wants Christie.

Kushner hates Christie because he put his dad in jail and wants Gingrich.
Manafort wants Pence and sees that slipping away from him.
His pollster wants Flynn.

Trump wants to make his decision today. Oh my god.

Dumpsterfire.jpeg
 

Teggy

Member
So Trump sued this guy for trying to out an affair between Hope Hicks and Lewandowski...except no one knew about the rumor it until the lawsuit spread it.
 
Meanwhile, the accusations against Ailes himself continue to pile up. According to sources I spoke with, at least three former Fox anchors have been harassed. One former rising star at the network has said that Ailes approached her during a barbecue at Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy’s house in New Jersey while she was bouncing on a trampoline with children and said, “Are you wearing any panties? I wish you weren't.” Another recently departed Fox host has claimed Ailes made her turn around in his office to show him her figure.

Meanwhile, more women from Ailes’s years as a daytime television producer have come forward. This week, I spoke with Judy, a 67-year-old former model who says that during an audition for The Dennis Wholey Show in 1969, when she was 19 years old, Ailes asked her to lift up her skirt and lie facedown on a bed at the Sheraton Gibson Hotel in Cincinnati. “I totally freaked,” she said, on the condition that I would only use her first name for fear of retribution. “I got up and ran to the door. He stood in front of the door and locked it.” Judy managed to escape and tell her parents, and they took her to the police. “I remember Ailes being manipulative and sweet-talking my parents out of pressing charges,” she says. “Afterwards, he called my mom and said, 'If you ever need anything, you call me.”

Another former model, now 74 and speaking anonymously because she never told her husband about her experience, said Ailes propositioned her during her interview for The Mike Douglas Show in 1967, promising, “If you sleep with me, all these things will happen." She says they did have sex several weeks later at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia. “Then I started getting calls from an agency — I think they got my number from him. I got asked to go on interviews in New York City, but they weren’t jobs at all. I was sent to different places where you’d go into a room and some guy would be there thinking you have to give him a blow job. It was horrifying. I wasn't a prostitute.” Later, she said, she tried to kill herself with pills.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/can-the-murdochs-contain-the-ailes-damage.html

What a pathetic, gross, person.
 

Iolo

Member
So Trump sued this guy for trying to out an affair between Hope Hicks and Lewandowski...except no one knew about the rumor it until the lawsuit spread it.

I thought they spent all their time yelling at each other at the top of their lungs and crying.

Hmm, it could be true.
 

really interesting read, a triangle mess of pooo

Kushner wants Newt because Adelson wants Newt.
Kushner hates Christie. But Donald loves Christie.
if they pick Newt, it brings them money form Adelson

Manafort wants Pence, doesn't want Newt.
Pence can't run for Governor at the same time as VEEP, double career ending move possible.

I personally want either Christie or Newt.
I don't want Pence
 

Hazmat

Member
Hillary's pick should have nothing to do with Trump's, IMO.

I agree with what others have said...she needs to just pick someone she believes she can work with for the next 4-8 years.

I agree that her pick shouldn't be affected by Trump's. His campaign is too random to base such a huge decision off of.
 

Teggy

Member
really interesting read, a triangle mess of pooo

Kushner wants Newt because Adelson wants Newt.
Kushner hates Christie. But Donald loves Christie.
if they pick Newt, it brings them money form Adelson

Manafort wants Pence, doesn't want Newt.
Pence can't run for Governor at the same time as VEEP, double career ending move possible.

I personally want either Christie or Newt.
I don't want Pence

What about the names no one has even heard about? The ones Trump promised me would be great for America?
 

Crisco

Banned
Kaine, Perez and Vilsack are the three choices? Jesus, at least get someone good looking. Along with Trump and whatever troll he picks, this is going to be the ugliest general election ever. Whatever happened to Xavier Becerra?
 
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