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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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T

Tubie

Member
NeoXChaos said:
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giphy.gif
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
One thing I'm thinking about as far as optic moments is that there's an exceedingly large chance that by September 26, America will be so disgusted by Trump that we will be roundly booed throughout the proceedings, and I'd bet there will be a moment where Clinton herself will tell them to let him speak, coming off as tremendously sane of temperament, all while opening the floor back up to a Trump who will be just phenomenally enraged at that point.

It will be like Obama's "Please continue" to the four hundredth power.

I really can't wait for the debates. Do you think he'll even shake her hand?
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
For you SC GAF wondering why its not going the way of GA, VA, NC....yet
Casey Brown
‏@milesizded Casey Brown Retweeted Kyle Kondik
What about SC? 15 yrs behind GA or is that too optimistic? I'd love to see my home state vote blue in my lifetime.
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Parasauralophus
‏@lophus89
@kkondik @milesizded South Carolina still lacks a "new economy magnet city" - by time SC catches this trend a whole new trend will occur

Kyle Kondik ‏@kkondik 9m9 minutes ago
Kyle Kondik Retweeted Parasauralophus
Right. SC doesn't have a NoVa, Atlanta, or Raleigh-Durham/Charlotte.
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Michael McDonald ‏@ElectProject 7m7 minutes ago
@kkondik although, urban SC Whites in Columbia and Charleston vote liberal like their GA, NC & VA counterparts
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U

User 463088

Banned
whyamihere said:
I guess what's striking is that right now she's probably up only a little bit more than Obama beat McCain, and yet she's up in states that Obama lost, like Georgia.
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I think this kind of makes sense in that any state with a drop of diversity is running far away from Trump. If we believe the polls, he has basically zero support among people of color. He's bleeding support from whites that are college educated. With demographic shifts, even over 8 years really, I think it kind of works for us. He doesn't even have a white firewall at the moment to save him.

And this is one of the reasons I'm so happy Hillary is our nominee. Women, African American voters and Hispanic voters are her natural constituency. They've always been with her. So, I'm not willing to accept the argument that Trump is the reason she's doing so well with them. These are her people. She has support for them in a way someone like Bernie wouldn't have (out the gate) and he would have had to work very, very hard to consolidate support.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Piecake said:
As Trump Rises, ‘Reformocons’ See Chance to Update G.O.P.’s Economic Views


Interesting. Politically, it would be a very good idea for the republicans to do this. It should be obvious to anyone that populist ideas are popular with working class white voters, and taking these ideas on will weaken the next demagogic populist candidate who tries to take advantage of the Republican coalition's cleavages.

If this does change, all I can say is thank fucking Christ. There might be some actual common ground where democrats and republicans can actually get shit done instead of Republicans just saying no to everything and demanding tax cuts for the wealthy and cuts to everything else.

I actually think this might have an okay chance of happening since absorbing the ideas of a fringe candidate or 'outside' force to weaken that and strengthen the party is classic two-party politics.
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Is a Reformocon a type of Transformer
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
Barack Lesnar said:
Hillary has never debated someone like Donald Trump. Look what happened in the Republican debates. Most of the candidates are cool and collected people but Trump changes the whole atmosphere of the debate.
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The only thing Trump did was force the candidates to talk about issues the GOP knows hurts them in the GE. Things they simply wanted to not discuss because what their base wants and what the general population wants are very different things. That works in the primary if you are shortsighted. It's hurting him now and won't help him in a GE Debate with the other party that is in line with the general population on those issues.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
One thing I'm thinking about as far as optic moments is that there's an exceedingly large chance that by September 26, America will be so disgusted by Trump that we will be roundly booed throughout the proceedings, and I'd bet there will be a moment where Clinton herself will tell them to let him speak, coming off as tremendously sane of temperament, all while opening the floor back up to a Trump who will be just phenomenally enraged at that point.

It will be like Obama's "Please continue" to the four hundredth power.

I really can't wait for the debates. Do you think he'll even shake her hand?
Click to expand...

The crowd is not allowed to make noise during a GE debate. I mean, that's the official policy. Once in a while, they make a bit of noise, but that's all.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Paradoxal_Utopia said:
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pigeon said:
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Domestic politics and foreign policy discussion requires such a vast amount of personal knowledge and consistent research that we should be accepting of people who maybe don't understand the full scope or have been lead astray by bad sources.

We should have a community that should be happy to answer any and all questions that people have, even if someone has outlooks that you personally may disagree with.

Fragamemnon said:
edit: Regarding the Iran cash-that money isn't so much about the Iran's nuke program as it is saying to everyone else in the world that the US honors its obligations, no matter how long or strange the road was to get to the point of doing so.
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That's a good point.

Fragamemnon said:
Trump has until the end of the Olympics to patch up the numbers. If he hasn't turned the bus around by then he's gonna get Dole'd by Ryan and Mitch
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Plus Obama is going to come out of Martha's Vineyard rested and ready for a fight with a strong economy and high approval ratings at his back.
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
NeoXChaos said:
For you SC GAF wondering why its not going the way of GA, VA, NC....yet
Click to expand...

I kind of hate SC for making a full east coast sweep impossible this year (or in the next few cycles)
 
J

jevity

Member
Hey Barack Lesnar.

I have a simple and neutral question for you.

What could Trump do or say, that would make you denounce him for good ?
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I dismissed babygate as silly, but this post stolen from Facebook makes an excellent point:

In talking about Trump and the baby, people seem to be focusing on the idea of "who yells at a baby?" And it is kind of in line with our questions about his temperament to frame this as Trump yelling at a baby.

But he didn't yell at a baby. He yelled at a woman who had a baby.

And more importantly, he didn't just yell at her, he gaslighted her, telling her at first that it was OK that her baby was fussing, and then acting like she was nuts for taking him at his word and should have somehow divined magically that he actually wanted her to leave.

This was an example of three horrible things all wrapped up in one. First, Trump's tendency toward doublespeak, saying one thing, meaning the exact opposite and acting like everyone else is bizarre and ignorant for taking his words at face value. Second, the aforementioned gaslighting, which is an always an abuse tactic, full out.

Third, and this is a little more nuanced, it's a prime example of the insidious way in which parenting forces women, especially, out of public life. When babies aren't welcome somewhere, when babies start crying, it is mothers who are expected to stay home, mothers who are expected to take the baby out, mothers whose lives are interrupted.

It's not "Trump yells at a baby."

It's "Trump uses abusive tactics and reinforces marginalization of women with children by yelling at mother of young baby."

Sometimes brevity is the enemy of an accurate picture of just how bad something is.
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Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Barack Lesnar said:
Because I've ignored your trolling posts calling me a white nationalist/racist/whatever, right. I'll continue to ignore them.
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While I don't agree with pigeon's... let's say blunt methods, it would be nice if you could tell us what policies Trump has laid out that make you want to support him despite everything we've seen and heard from him. Considering the only actual plans he's ever given have been to build a wall and ban all Muslims, you can understand why someone would assume his supporters are white nationalists. There's literally nothing else there to support.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Barack Lesnar said:
Because I've ignored your trolling posts calling me a white nationalist/racist/whatever, right. I'll continue to ignore them.
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I don't see how it's trolling to point out that you are voting for and advocating for white nationalism. That is the truth! Clearly you understand that, since you have no response to it, and are just okay with it. If you don't like it you shouldn't be voting for a white nationalist.

Grief.exe said:
Domestic politics and foreign policy discussion requires such a vast amount of personal knowledge and consistent research that we should be accepting of people who maybe don't understand the full scope or have been lead astray by bad sources.

We should have a community that should be happy to answer any and all questions that people have, even if someone has outlooks that you personally may disagree with.
Click to expand...

Sure, if he was like "okay, I didn't realize I was a racist, let me change my position on that" then I could buy that maybe he just didn't have all the information. That clearly seems to not be the case.

I reject the idea that we should normalize racists coming into PoliGAF and try to have friendly discussions with them.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Fragamemnon said:
Trump has until the end of the Olympics to patch up the numbers. If he hasn't turned the bus around by then he's gonna get Dole'd by Ryan and Mitch
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IMO, they're already fucked even if they try to distance themselves from Trump. I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that every single GOP Senate candidate has either endorsed Trump explicitly or advocated that he be elected around the time the RNC took place. None of them have retracted their endorsement. If McConnell and Ryan try to pull a Dole, the Dems can paint it as cravenly political and just state "It took you x number of months to withdraw support for Trump despite him saying ... You didn't withdraw your support when he said Mexicans are rapists. Or when he mocked a disabled reporter. Or when he called for a ban on Muslim immigration. Or when he picked a fight with a gold star family. You implicitly supported all of those positions by not withdrawing your support when they happened and you are doing it now simply because it is politically expedient."

On top of that, running from Trump's die hard supporters could erode GOP base support for candidates. They are fucked.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
whyamihere said:
Man, that jobs report. I am shook.
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In all seriousness? I did a little dance in my office chair when I saw it.

There's a decreasing number of predictable/scheduled events that could derail this train, and as each one comes off of the list with minimal ill effects to the Dems, I celebrate.

---

And that Georgia poll is making headlines. I see various media outlets using it as a reference point for how far the race has swung.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
David Gergen might be 100 years old and have served under every president but he's a moron and has zero political insight. He takes everything at face value. I dont know why CNN continues to employ him.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
RustyNails said:
David Gergen might be 100 years old and have served under every president but he's a moron and has zero political insight. He takes everything at face value. I dont know why CNN continues to employ him.
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Because he's a goddamn genius compared to a lot of the absolute imbiciles CNN puts on the air.
 
F

Fox318

Member
HylianTom said:
In all seriousness? I did a little dance in my office chair when I saw it.

There's a decreasing number of predictable/scheduled events that could derail this train, and as each one comes off of the list with minimal ill effects to the Dems, I celebrate.

---

And that Georgia poll is making headlines. I see various media outlets using it as a reference point for how far the race has swung.
Click to expand...

My sources tell me that a big story about Hillary liking the ghostbusters movie and putting ketchup on a hot dog is about to leak.

the train will get derailed
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
whyamihere said:
Hmm? Pretty sure the entire reason these states are tilting blue is that these "magnet cities" are bringing in white Democrats, among others, diluting the power of white Republicans.
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Adam Keith ‏@akk5d 21m21 minutes ago
@ElectProject @kkondik problem for SC Dems is that much growth from white conservative retirees, SC racial demos not shifting like NC and GA
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HylianTom said:
And that Georgia poll is making headlines. I see various media outlets using it as a reference point for how far the race has swung.
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Sean T at RCP ‏@SeanTrende 16m16 minutes ago
I'd also keep an eye on LA-Sen, where a crowded R field gives Trump's evolved Pokemon form a fighting chance to surprise.
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Come on Trumpys down here. Vote for Duke.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
pigeon said:
I don't see how it's trolling to point out that you are voting for and advocating for white nationalism. That is the truth! Clearly you understand that, since you have no response to it, and are just okay with it. If you don't like it you shouldn't be voting for a white nationalist.



Sure, if he was like "okay, I didn't realize I was a racist, let me change my position on that" then I could buy that maybe he just didn't have all the information. That clearly seems to not be the case.

I reject the idea that we should normalize racists coming into PoliGAF and try to have friendly discussions with them.
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Cmon. He is at least not Heulen, which means there is some self-awareness ergo he's not an alien. Like it or not, 35% of America supports Trump. That's a big chunk. Poligaf cannot become insulated echo chamber. If he's willing to get dogpiled and defend his opinions, let him discuss. Trump wants to ban people of my faith from entering US, and his surrogates said people like me should be thrown in internment camps and "deported", despite holding a US citizenship. What I want to say is that the rhetoric is absolutely acidic and I'm one of the groups that will be at the forefront of Trump's firing squad and making his supporters sit on a donkey and ride them out of town doesn't help me, not the ones who are self aware at least.
 
A

AnotherDayAnotherDollar

Banned
pigeon said:
I mean, it's clear he's posting in bad faith. People should stop engaging with him.
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I don't think that's clear at all. Sounds to me like he is new to politics and maybe naive/gullible to how things really work. His post about "we'll keep the money until it's stable there" shows a clear lacking of understanding things in the ME, but it doesn't show trolling intent IMO. Why not have a healthy debate as some have done as opposed to getting angry and shooting the guy down? So far, I haven't gotten the impression that he's trolling at all.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
HylianTom said:
In all seriousness? I did a little dance in my office chair when I saw it.

There's a decreasing number of predictable/scheduled events that could derail this train, and as each one comes off of the list with minimal ill effects to the Dems, I celebrate.

---

And that Georgia poll is making headlines. I see various media outlets using it as a reference point for how far the race has swung.
Click to expand...

Josh Barro had an interesting point about the double-edged sword of Trump demographics changes.

Basically the rationale for a Trump black swan win is that he can attack e.g. PA by winning blue-collar whites who normally vote Dem while Hillary already has maxed out her margin with PoC and doesn't gain that much with white-collar whites.

But if Trump is weak enough the opposite is true. In a state like Georgia Trump doesn't gain that much from winning blue-collar whites. Southern blue-collar whites already vote GOP. But it's very dangerous for him to lose white-collar whites because the South is full of people of color held in check by high-turnout whites. If Trump starts losing white-collar whites and Hillary maintains or expands PoC voting then states all over the South are now in danger. GA is just the first target.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Link said:
Because he's a goddamn genius compared to a lot of the absolute imbiciles CNN puts on the air.
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I dont think so. He's a wallpaper. Yesterday he was bemoaning the absolutely TERRIBLE GDP OMG AMERICA IS OVER numbers. I told myself UGH just wait till tomorrow to make a declaration at least? Ok even if the jobs report is bad, put everything in the context of 72 months of continued growth and new jobs???

The best pundit on CNN is The Axe.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I like how the media is short stroking it over the idea of some kind of Republican coup as though "party insiders" wanted Trump as the candidate in the first place, or in fact, at any point in the entire nomination process.
 
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