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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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studyguy

Member
Given that the country has majority popular support for free trade and that it clearly had the support it needed in congress, I don't find it that hard to envision an alternative scenario.

Nah, the GOP had already rallied on the idea that Clinton was pro TPP and if not Trump would have continued rallying on that idea. There's no way it would have made it across the line with bipartisan support in that climate. TPP was dead once populism flipped on free trade regardless of what congress wants.

Would it have been retooled, renamed and pushed again, sure. TPP as it stood? Hell no.
 

Gruco

Banned
Merrick Garland and the TPP eat at my soul. Barack Obama missed out on his closing act. Would have been the perfect last couple of accomplishments.
Nah, the GOP had already rallied on the idea that Clinton was pro TPP and if not Trump would have continued rallying on that idea. There's no way it would have made it across the line with bipartisan support in that climate. TPP was dead once populism flipped on free trade regardless of what congress wants.

Would it have been retooled, renamed and pushed again, sure. TPP as it stood? Hell no.
Majority popular support though. I think you are overstating the popular opposition to it, though it was certainly noisy.

If Trump lost and Clinton didn't reverse on it? Really not hard to imagine, regardless of any hypothetical retooling.
 

chadskin

Member
Trump's handshake with Abe: https://twitter.com/braddjaffy/status/830107623714390016

source.gif
 

studyguy

Member
Not much you could do for Garland when the GOP wouldn't even give him the time of day. No one cared enough to focus on the complete upheaval of SCOTUS appointment by a sitting president, DNC sucks at messaging it, media doesn't think it's interesting enough to care during a presidential election year, GOP stuck their head in the sand deep enough to pop out the other side of the planet over it. What does one do?
 
I never heard a strong argument for or against TPP but the fact that Paul Ryan loves it but the populist and Northeastern Democrats voting against it makes me side against it.

When Brown and Gillibrand oppose something and Paul "I love lowering peoples' standards of living" Ryan has it as a key issue on its website, I'm not going to cry over losing it.
 

kess

Member
I think asking how segments of the so-called far-left managed to be co-opted by the alt-right should be a worth a discussion. A appeal to absolutism and desire for accelerationism are common to both.

Not much you could do for Garland when the GOP wouldn't even give him the time of day. No one cared enough to focus on the complete upheaval of SCOTUS appointment by a sitting president, DNC sucks at messaging it, media doesn't think it's interesting enough to care during a presidential election year, GOP stuck their head in the sand deep enough to pop out the other side of the planet over it. What does one do?

Obama should have used the bully pulpit and called congress into special session. Obama valued stability and constitutional norms so much he gave the opposition the cover to violate it.
 

sangreal

Member
Some people were against it because certain US industries will lose jobs, fair enough. Most of Democratic opposition seemed to be around the misguided belief that they know better than the other signatories what is good for them, and that US corporations are going to wreck their nations with ISDS lawsuits and copyright laws.
 
Not much you could do for Garland when the GOP wouldn't even give him the time of day. No one cared enough to focus on the complete upheaval of SCOTUS appointment by a sitting president, DNC sucks at messaging it, media doesn't think it's interesting enough to care during a presidential election year, GOP stuck their head in the sand deep enough to pop out the other side of the planet over it. What does one do?

Clearly Obama should have pulled a West Wing and given someone the GOP wants for Scalia's seat while having Gisnburg retire and get a young liberal for her seat
 

studyguy

Member
DNC couldn't message it's way out of a paper bag in 2016.
Ignoring the fact that we lost on the margins in states where anti-free trade populist message resonated so strongly doesn't exactly help the idea that the TPP would suddenly gain wider approval in what would have been a climate where disaffected voters for Trump already thought Hillary was pro TPP and Sanders types thought the same. Nah fam, I don't see where the bipartisan support would have come from when all sides were assailing the TPP.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
I'm still undecided what I should call my senators about. Since I haven't decide yet how I feel they should approach Gorsuch, maybe I'll just call to say they should focus more on these questionable ethic actions by the Trump administration. I don't think they've been given enough attention.

Trump gets a pass way too frequently on outrageous shit he does.
 
Think i'm just gonna watch this joint press conference with Abe to see if Trump insults the media randomly and confuses the PM.

Edit: Trump looks tired as fuck. Just reading.
 
Abe came prepared and actually put effort into this. He has no idea that he's actually just gonna play golf and nothing else.

Trump just said hopefully there is no questions haha.
 
Guess who is still getting help from his friends.

Google has warned a number of prominent journalists that state-sponsored hackers are attempting to steal their passwords and break into their inboxes, the journalists tell POLITICO.

"The fact that all this started right after the election suggests to me that journalists are the next wave to be targeted by state-sponsored hackers in the way that Democrats were during it," said one journalist who got the warning. "I worry that the outcome is going to be the same: Someone, somewhere, is going to get hacked, and then the contents of their gmail will be weaponized against them — and by extension all media."
 
Guys, I don't think he's that smart.

@jesseberney
Trump asks Abe what a Japanese photographer was saying and Abe translates: "Please look at me."

Trump looks at Abe.

He's so dumb, guys.

@jesseberney
I just love the moment when Abe gently points at the cameras -- "no, look at them" -- and Trump doesn't get it.
 
I just signed up for wind energy through Arcadia Power. Never done anything like this before and I'm definitely a little nervous about making sure I pay the right thing at the right time, but it seemed like a good thing to do.
 
I never heard a strong argument for or against TPP but the fact that Paul Ryan loves it but the populist and Northeastern Democrats voting against it makes me side against it.

When Brown and Gillibrand oppose something and Paul "I love lowering peoples' standards of living" Ryan has it as a key issue on its website, I'm not going to cry over losing it.

Paul Krugman wrote the two best explainers of the TPP I've seen. Basically its not even a true free trade deal, TPP is more about strengthening IP protection which is strongly supported by Dem groups like pharma and Hollywood. The final deal did water down some of the more anti-consumer provisions.

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2...n=Opinion&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body#more-38247

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/tpp-take-two/
 

Wilsongt

Member
"Turumpu-san. Mite, kudasai. Mite, mite, kudasai. mit -- of fuck it you orange idiot."

In my mind that will forever be the exhange.
 

jtb

Banned
I think they are making the calculus to block the next one as hard as possible since it could be after they regain more seats or possibly closer to 2018 and people will remember it more when 2018 comes around. They are not hedging their bets on getting 51 in the senate in 2018. It is a republican advantage in more ways than one.

The court is also dysfunctional as is. The next person is probably just going to retire than suddenly die so there will at least be "time" to block

Interesting. I think that's a big mistake. They will pay a very steep political price for any cooperation, perceived or real, with Trump. We know how the beltway hacks (and Greenwald) love to scream "both sides!!1!"
 
It's pretty obvious the Democrats are going filibuster Gorsuch. Schumer just wrote this op-ed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/...led-again.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Given the administration’s disdain for the judiciary, any nominee to the Supreme Court, particularly by this president, must be able to demonstrate independence from this president. The bar is always high to achieve a seat on the Supreme Court, but in these unusual times — when there is unprecedented stress on our system of checks and balances — the bar is even higher for Judge Neil M. Gorsuch to demonstrate independence. In order to clear it, he will have to convince 60 of my colleagues that he will not be influenced by politics, parties or the president. The judiciary is the last and most important check on an overreaching president with little respect for the rule of law.

also, 🔥🔥🔥

As I sat with Judge Gorsuch, a disconcerting feeling came over me that I had been through this before — and I soon realized I had, with Judge John G. Roberts Jr. He was similarly charming, polished and erudite. Like Neil Gorsuch, he played the part of a model jurist. And just like Neil Gorsuch, he asserted his independence, claiming to be a judge who simply called “balls and strikes,” unbiased by both ideology and politics.

When Judge Roberts became Justice Roberts, we learned that we had been duped by an activist judge. The Roberts court systematically and almost immediately shifted to the right, violating longstanding precedent with its rulings in Citizens United and in Shelby v. Holder, which gutted the Voting Rights Act. Before Justice Scalia died, the court was on the precipice of violating precedent again with Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association, which would have eviscerated unions. In each instance, there was an attempt to tilt the scales of justice in favor of big business or right-leaning interests. Rather than calling balls and strikes, Chief Justice Roberts was a 10th player, shifting the power structure toward the privileged and away from the average American.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wait, so the White House actually admitted Flynn talked about sanctions? Wow.
 

jtb

Banned
The threat of a filibuster, like any threat, is meaningless without actual power behind it. If the Democrats don't use it now, it is a completely empty threat.

This is a hill worth dying on. It's not about Gorsuch, it's about the fact that this seat is completely illegitimate and tying Republicans to Trump. If Trump is going down, then everyone else has to go down with the ship.
 
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