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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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Yes. The terms for Obama are very different. The Dems of 2016 are not same as Dems of 2000.

The terms are the same as they've always been. One party tacitly supports slavery and they other doesn't.

A minority of them probably do want to destroy Wall Street, but they're a minority and I think if you bring most of the Bernie supporters to the table you'd be able to hash out a more reasoned and thought out future. The fact is that a lot of them are infuriated and angry about the inequality gap but they don't know how to actually fix it. Reaching out to them with empathy instead of shutting them out with anger seems to me like a better path, and let bygones be bygones.

I'd be happy to if they'd let their candidate go in the same capacity as I have Clinton. I vote for the progressive candidate, I don't care who it is.

Edit: It's not like I wouldn't have voted for Bernie if he won the nomination.
 

Pixieking

Banned
A minority of them probably do want to destroy Wall Street, but they're a minority and I think if you bring most of the Bernie supporters to the table you'd be able to hash out a more reasoned and thought out future. The fact is that a lot of them are infuriated and angry about the inequality gap but they don't know how to actually fix it. Reaching out to them with empathy instead of shutting them out with anger seems to me like a better path, and let bygones be bygones.

I don't know who is to blame for this (I suspect a mixture of groups and politicians on both sides of the aisle), but income inequality =/= Wall Street. There's an overlap there, for sure, with people who don't pay their fair share and people who earn way beyond what anyone should earn. But it is lazy and engenders ignorance to simply say "Wall Street", and expect things to happen. And using paid speeches as an anti-Wall Street argument is buying into that, and short-changes the electorate by pandering to the desire for simple answers.

Wealth redistribution (through taxes and higher minimum wage) desperately needs to happen, but we (and Bernie, and Warren, etc) cannot just keep on repeating Wall Street Bad. It is pointless, and it harms the Democratic cause.

Edit: And it should be noted that income redistribution crosses the aisle for a lot of people. The true economic anxiety Obama-Trump voters are the ones worried about their savings and their kids college funds. They don't give a shit about Wall Street, but they do give a shit about being paid a fair wage.
 
Ranting

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

First the Ninth Circuit rules against the ban & now it hits again on sanctuary cities-both ridiculous rulings. See you in the Supreme Court!

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
Out of our very big country, with many choices, does everyone notice that both the "ban" case and now the "sanctuary" case is brought in ...

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
...the Ninth Circuit, which has a terrible record of being overturned (close to 80%). They used to call this "judge shopping!" Messy system.
 

Can't wait for SCOTUS to shoot it down too. Even conservative judges tend to agree, the Constitution applies to non-citizens, hence its use of words like "persons" and "people" throughout and places that only apply to citizens using that exact word (voting rights for example).
 
This is like the fifth time he's threatened taking something to the Supreme Court

Still hasn't happened yet. I hope it does. It would be funny to see him rage if Gorsuch voted against his bill ( I'm guessing he almost certainly would)
 

Slacker

Member
Jared and Ivanka could get caught on camera feeding orphans into a wood chipper and Joe would have some excuse for them.

This morning new reports of Jared and Ivanka feeding orphans! More on that as we get it.

Speaking of Ivanka, that pimple Jesse Waters on Fox News doesn't understand how the left, who supposedly respects women, doesn't grant unearned respect to Ivanka. He then makes a thinly veiled blowjob comment about her. No, I'm not kidding. "I really like how she was speaking into that microphone."

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/857086655622246400
 
The thing that really drives me up a wall about optics on the left is that exactly two groups care about it: the right (who will take any excuse to talk shit about dems) and hand wringing purity obsessed liberals. Everyone else just reacts to the prospect of scandal, which is only a thing because instead of excusing the little stuff on our own side we apparently feel compelled to shine a spotlight on it and enable the right wing propaganda campaigns by lending them the appearance of bipartisanship. You want this stuff to stop hurting us? Stop giving it credence.
 

PBY

Banned
The thing that really drives me up a wall about optics on the left is that exactly two groups care about it: the right (who will take any excuse to talk shit about dems) and hand wringing purity obsessed liberals. Everyone else just reacts to the prospect of scandal, which is only a thing because instead of excusing the little stuff on our own side we apparently feel compelled to shine a spotlight on it and enable the right wing propaganda campaigns by lending them the appearance of bipartisanship. You want this stuff to stop hurting us? Stop giving it credence.
I actually used to think this. But I think it does hurt, and not just a small minority on the left. Why do you think polling shows the Dems are out of touch?

To be clear - I don't think this is worth hand-wringing over. But it is worth speaking out against.
 
I actually used to think this. But I think it does hurt, and not just a small minority on the left. Why do you think polling shows the Dems are out of touch?

To be clear - I don't think this is worth hand-wringing over. But it is worth speaking out against.

Because Americans hate political parties as a result of being conditioned to hate them for basically ever

Elections in this country are very much personality based
 
I actually used to think this. But I think it does hurt, and not just a small minority on the left. Why do you think polling shows the Dems are out of touch?

To be clear - I don't think this is worth hand-wringing over. But it is worth speaking out against.
It's because there's an amplifying effect due to the efforts of the right wing media machine. Fox is the biggest network in the country, and their influence doesn't stop with their regular viewers. Every time the propaganda network spins up and spreads bullshit and we don't say "screw off that's nonsense" our guys believe their narratives a little more. Look at what happened to Clinton. The entire sum of her "corrupt" image started as a crazed right wing conspiracy that for various reasons left leaning groups declined to argue against and then left leaning people came to believe that she really WAS the most corrupt candidate in history!
 

PBY

Banned
Because Americans hate political parties as a result of being conditioned to hate them for basically ever

Elections in this country are very much personality based
Perhaps. I just have a hard time seeing how the fuck the Dems lost to fucking Trump and don't seem to want to make any changes or learn.

Sometimes this party is just hugely frustrating.
 

numble

Member
Trumps tax reform bill is just a tax cut. How pathetic. Corporates are like puuuu

A territorial system and a 15% rate for pass-throughs are a big thing to corporates.

Corporates invert to territorial systems like Canada and the UK to escape US worldwide income tax.

If the 15% passthrough rate goes through, an executive can just set up its own LLC to provide services to the corporate to enjoy a 15% rate on income instead of the 39.6% (or the rumored Trump's proposed 36% rate).

Yes but it wasn't the appellate court that ruled on the travel ban.

It was still a Hawaii court in the 9th circuit.
 
Perhaps. I just have a hard time seeing how the fuck the Dems lost to fucking Trump and don't seem to want to make any changes or learn.

Sometimes this party is just hugely frustrating.

They lost to Trump because people hated Hillary with a passion, have hated her for the past 20+ years, and want to move on after having a Democratic president for 8 years (pendulum politics is real!). And she still only lost because of less than 100k votes in three states.

Besides, anyone underestimating Trump and thinking Democrats should have crushed him is living in their own bubble. I thought the same thing during the election, but as it turns out that was a wrong take. As far as mistakes go, underestimating Trump even after he's been elected is easily the biggest one.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
A territorial system and a 15% rate for pass-throughs are a big thing to corporates.

Corporates invert to territorial systems like Canada and the UK to escape US worldwide income tax.

If the 15% passthrough rate goes through, an executive can just set up its own LLC to provide services to the corporate to enjoy a 15% rate on income instead of the 39.6% (or the rumored Trump's proposed 36% rate).



It was still a Hawaii court in the 9th circuit.

A 15% rate effectively reduces the need for a territorial system. You're going to keep profits in Ireland for 12.5% or whatever over 3%? Of course you have some corporates with special tax arrangements but that stuff is legacy and can't be planned for (certain corporates and the Swiss). Where are the specifics on any of this?

Nobody of note has announced an inversion in quite some time. This is not a practical concern anymore due to treasury regs. I believe jci was the last one in January 2016.
 

numble

Member
A 15% rate effectively reduces the need for a territorial system. You're going to keep profits in Ireland for 12.5% or whatever over 3%? Of course you have some corporates with special tax arrangements but that stuff is legacy and can't be planned for (certain corporates and the Swiss). Where are the specifics on any of this?

Nobody of note has announced an inversion in quite some time. This is not a practical concern anymore due to treasury regs. I believe jci was the last one in January 2016.

They have not done inversions but they still do a lot of planning to avoid taxation through the current subpart-F rules. So there is still a lot of planning around the global taxation system. You can still put a lot of profit in Singapore or Hong Kong that is taxed at 0%.

NYT and WSJ have the specifics on their front pages.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-...te-of-15-on-pass-through-companies-1493145858
President Donald Trump on Wednesday is planning to unveil a proposal to cut corporate taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign profits and to slash the top tax rate on so-called pass-through businesses, including many owner-operated companies, to 15% from 39.6%, said White House officials familiar with the planning.

...

White House officials also have agreed to propose a territorial tax system, the people said. In such a system, favored by large multinational firms, U.S. corporations would pay little or no tax on future foreign earnings. The nation’s current worldwide tax system levies all corporate income, regardless of where it is earned. Companies get credits for paying foreign taxes and can defer U.S. taxes until they repatriate foreign profits.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/us/politics/tax-plan-trump.html

President Trump plans to unveil a tax cut blueprint on Wednesday that would apply a vastly reduced, 15 percent business tax rate not only to corporations but also to companies that now pay taxes through the personal income tax code — from mom-and-pop businesses to his own real estate empire, according to several people briefed on the proposal.
 

Thaedolus

Member
RE: Obama getting paid: I didn't have a problem with Hillary doing it, I thought Bernie attacking her over it was dumb, and I don't have a problem with Barry doing it. If anything it's someone with the right values preaching to people that need to hear it. He doesn't have to worry about optics anymore
 
Do any of y'all have interesting license plate schemes? I've always thought it was cool that here in MS our license plates have the county printed on them but also the first 2 letters of the plate are specific to the county as well (all Itawamba county plates start with IT, for example). Good for identification if you only catch some of the plate in a hit and run, for instance.
 

Wilsongt

Member
RE: Obama getting paid: I didn't have a problem with Hillary doing it, I thought Bernie attacking her over it was dumb, and I don't have a problem with Barry doing it. If anything it's someone with the right values preaching to people that need to hear it. He doesn't have to worry about optics anymore

Yeah but Wall Street! Goldman Sachs! EMAIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLZZZZZ! SPEECH TRANSCRIIIIIIIIPTS!!!
 
Do any of y'all have interesting license plate schemes? I've always thought it was cool that here in MS our license plates have the county printed on them but also the first 2 letters of the plate are specific to the county as well (all Itawamba county plates start with IT, for example). Good for identification if you only catch some of the plate in a hit and run, for instance.
We have whiskey plates in Minnesota, if you're given a DUI they replace the first letter of your license with a W and police can pull you over without reason.

It's like a scarlet letter for assholes.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
RE: Obama getting paid: I didn't have a problem with Hillary doing it, I thought Bernie attacking her over it was dumb, and I don't have a problem with Barry doing it. If anything it's someone with the right values preaching to people that need to hear it. He doesn't have to worry about optics anymore

That thread? It took 79 posts before the first evidence that anyone actually read the first paragraph of the article.
 
RE: Obama getting paid: I didn't have a problem with Hillary doing it, I thought Bernie attacking her over it was dumb, and I don't have a problem with Barry doing it. If anything it's someone with the right values preaching to people that need to hear it. He doesn't have to worry about optics anymore

watinthefuckisthis
 
"Obama got paid for a Wall Street speech!"
*Meanwhile GOP voting to gut healthcare and reveal plans to destroy Net Neutrality*

Yeah seems about right.
 
"Obama got paid for a Wall Street speech!"
*Meanwhile GOP voting to gut healthcare and reveal plans to destroy Net Neutrality*

Yeah seems about right.
20 pages vs 5.

Like I said in that thread, shit like this is why we lose. We're unwilling to let our guys skate on anything, while the GOP grades strictly on actual policy and a couple of 0 effort signifiers like wearing a flag pin or pretending to be Christian. And even then, if you hate liberals, minorities, etc. enough, they're willing to let most of that slide. Meanwhile we can't stop fighting about an ex president making some dough in a way that isn't even necessarily dubious, just potentially, that we can't summon the effort to oppose GOP attempts to destroy millions of people's lives.
 
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