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[neurosisxeno]

I have to say I would rather a crippled Pence presidency over a Ryan presidency withe full government control for 2 years

Crippled is an understatement. If Trump gets impeached or forced to resign after they all spent over a year insisting nothing was wrong, I don't see any Republicans that backed him winning re-election which will cripple the entire party. Nobody left of Conservative Evangelicals will vote for these people.

 

[metalslimer]

Crippled is an understatement. If Trump gets impeached or forced to resign after they all spent over a year insisting nothing was wrong, I don't see any Republicans that backed him winning re-election which will cripple the entire party. Nobody left of Conservative Evangelicals will vote for these people.

They still will have government control for a few years though

 

[neurosisxeno]

They still will have government control for a few years though

If by the end of the year Trump is impeached, they will get 1 year, because Democrats will win almost every seat in 2018, and then immediately start walking back any bad shit they could have gotten through.

 

[Stinkles]

If by the end of the year Trump is impeached, they will get 1 year, because Democrats will win almost every seat in 2018, and then immediately start walking back any bad shit they could have gotten through.

If it was a general election yes, in midterms, who knows? Old angry white people vote in midterms. And they have the polling booths to themselves, usually.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm actually really interested in how many Republicans think that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump.

Because ALL of #MAGA Twitter and Reddit believes this idea completely.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

It's crazier on Twitter where there's like 20 tweets a minute on #Obamagate

 

[IggyChooChoo]

If by the end of the year Trump is impeached, they will get 1 year, because Democrats will win almost every seat in 2018, and then immediately start walking back any bad shit they could have gotten through.

Let's bear in mind that even if Trump is impeached and removed in disgrace, he'll still have access to twitter, and he'll do nothing but savage GOP traitors for the rest of his life.

 

[metalslimer]

If they have enough for Republicans to impeach he's going to jail

 

[Plinko]

I'm actually really interested in how many Republicans think that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump.

Because ALL of #MAGA Twitter and Reddit believes this idea completely.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

It's crazier on Twitter where there's like 20 tweets a minute on #Obamagate

As Graham said, if Obama himself did this, it is a massive scandal.

But that doesn't fit his character at all.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

If it was a general election yes, in midterms, who knows? Old angry white people vote in midterms. And they have the polling booths to themselves, usually.

Old angry white people didn't stop the GOP from getting slaughtered in 1974 (Watergate), 1982 (deflation recession), or 2006 (Katrina and Iraq).

 

[thepotatoman]

Honestly had a chuckle at the bolded. Both of them are going down in history as the most incompetent Presidents to date. Pick any random college Republican and they could run either administration with less self-inflicted scandals than either Bush or Trump. And Trump's only had a month!

Yeah, I guess I should clarify that I'm talking about thier campaign abilities, not governing abilities.

 

[Holmes]

Old angry white people didn't stop the GOP from getting slaughtered in 1974 (Watergate), 1982 (deflation recession), or 2006 (Katrina and Iraq).

There has also been a lot of white flight away from the Democratic Party over the last 8 years for "reasons" so a lot more white people voted Democratic in the 70s and 80s.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

There has also been a lot of white flight away from the Democratic Party over the last 8 years for "reasons" so a lot more white people voted Democratic in the 70s and 80s.

I mean, there was a lot of white flight away from the Dems in 1968, 1980, and 2004 also.

 

[thepotatoman]

I hope it surfaces just to see how Republican polling skews it. "New survey suggests 2/3 of Republicans okay with Golden Showers".

Lol.

I guess when I think about it, a leaked golden showers tape wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either. I don't care what kinks my president is into as long as he can do the job well.

Though allowing yourself to be blackmailed with it by an american adversary kinda changes things.

 

[Officerrob]

As Graham said, if Obama himself did this, it is a massive scandal.

But that doesn't fit his character at all.

Either way it's a massive scandal:

-Obama ordered the wiretapping: LOL likelihood
-The FBI had enough evidence to get a FISA warrant against one of two people who could become President

 

[thepotatoman]

Either way it's a massive scandal:

-Obama ordered the wiretapping: LOL likelihood
-The FBI had enough evidence to get a FISA warrant against one of two people who could become President

I find it 50/50 between them having a warrant or it being another made up conspiracy theory Trump made up with Alex Jones.

 

[Boke1879]

I find it 50/50 between them having a warrant or it being another made up conspiracy theory Trump made up with Alex Jones.

It's very possible Trump made it up. But I don't think so.

It's just odd how NOW he talks about being wiretapped. I would not be shocked if the FBI or NSA tapped him or his campaign because of Russia ties. Remember. Manafort LIVES in Trump tower. I have every right to believe they got taps on him.

Not to mention Senator Coons ( lol at the the name) said yesterday or today he believes the FBI has transcripts of Trump or his campaign colluding with the Russians.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's very possible Trump made it up. But I don't think so.

It's just odd how NOW he talks about being wiretapped. I would not be shocked if the FBI or NSA tapped him or his campaign because of Russia ties. Remember. Manafort LIVES in Trump tower. I have every right to believe they got taps on him.

Not to mention Senator Coons ( lol at the the name) said yesterday or today he believes the FBI has transcripts of Trump or his campaign colluding with the Russians.

Trump talked about it now because Breitbart released a story on Obama wiretapping Trump yesterday.

He just consumes terrible news sources and then vomits back what they say.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ma-used-police-state-tactics-undermine-trump/

He read this article and then he started tweeting about it, that's it... He doesn't know anything.

 

[Chumley]

Either way it's a massive scandal:

-Obama ordered the wiretapping: LOL likelihood
-The FBI had enough evidence to get a FISA warrant against one of two people who could become President

It's a FISA warrant, I 100 percent believe that. Trump is guilty and he knows it and is trying to do everything he can to discredit what's coming his way before it hits.

 

[metalslimer]

I can buy Trump just reading a Breitbart story with no other evidence

 

[FyreWulff]

As Graham said, if Obama himself did this, it is a massive scandal.

But that doesn't fit his character at all.

It's a nothing is good thing

- if obama went rogue, then fuck

- if trump was FISA'd, then fuck

- if trump wasn't fisa'd, and obama did nothing, then we have a sitting US president yelling made up shit about how the previous president is out to get him. fuck.


Trump fucked up by talking about it

 

[CygnusXS]

Just remember guys, when you're making predictions, that we live in The Stupidest Timeline.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

If it was a general election yes, in midterms, who knows? Old angry white people vote in midterms. And they have the polling booths to themselves, usually.

Old angry white people didn't stop the GOP from getting slaughtered in 1974 (Watergate), 1982 (deflation recession), or 2006 (Katrina and Iraq).

Yeah, and '06 is actually a really good roadmap for us. That was the height of the "Culture of Corruption" that really plagued the Bush administration for the last 2 years, and Trump's already topped their bullshit in a month. If he were to get impreached? 2006 would be our floor. Impeachment is a stink you can't easily get away from.

Sure, it's not like the GOP would lose every seat or anything, but I do think a lot of Republicans get primaried ahead of the midterms by other Republicans who will most likely have never actually supported Trump on the record.

I can buy Trump just reading a Breitbart story with no other evidence

Yeah, much as I'd like to jump into FISA conspiracies and shit, it's this. Trump responds to his media bubble within ours, without fail. If you really wanted to test this, hack Breitbart and upload a story around 3 AM that says something like "Coca Cola has experienced a sharp decline in sales after their CEO criticized Donald Trump in a press conference earlier this month" and watch as he tweets about how bad Coke tastes and that Pepsi has been dominating them for years.

The guy is a parrot.

 

[RastaMentality]

if the wheels start to come off next year before midterms, all bets are off. Republicans won't date impeach him close to nov 2018 and Dems could
literally run on it everywhere.

 

[PantherLotus]

1. We know both through reporting and through circumstantial evidence that Flynn's conversation with the ambassador was tapped, and because tapping Americans is illegal -- even in conversations with foreigners -- we know there was a FISA warrant. (h/t Maddow detailed this perfectly last night).

2. We don't know if that warrant included more than Flynn, afaik.

3. We don't know whether Trump does or doesn't know he was personally tapped at Trump Tower or anywhere else. It's safe to say he knows more about the investigation happening than he did before he was elected, so we can't exactly rule it out, esp. if we safely assume he has at least one pro-Trump person in place in the IC. (eek!) So sure, maybe he was riffing off a Breitbart headline. But I wouldn't dismiss that he knows he was tapped OR his guilty af reaction to it.

4. Trump's reaction this morning on Twitter, lashing out, making wild accusations, the reporting around his reaction to the Sessions recusal, Bannon/Preibus off AFO, and so on ... it all kinda adds up to what we all recognize as the actions of someone who knows it's almost up.

5. Point being: We now know Page, Stone, Flynn, Sessions, and Kushner all had undisclosed meetings and other dealings with Russia. We know there was at least one FISA wire tap. We know Flynn was removed, and Sessions recused. And finally we know Trump is, even for him, lashing out as the walls are closing in. The noose tightens.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait, all the stuff in the dossier released by Buzzfeed was true after all?

 

[GusBus]

if the wheels start to come off next year before midterms, all bets are off. Republicans won't date impeach him close to nov 2018 and Dems could literally run on it everywhere.

I'm sure there's a conversation being had (murmurs, at the very least) regarding damage control amongst Republicans. Is it worth booting Trump early on to get Pence in and potentially salvage the midterms?

November 2018 is a long ways out. If they can get Pence in by the summer, they still have over a year to pass legislation and bring stability to the White House.

 

[PantherLotus]

Wait, all the stuff in the dossier released by Buzzfeed was true after all?

We only know:

1. Some reporting that the IC has corroborted some of the less-salacious details. Giving it further credence.

2. Some House/Senate Intelligence Committees (the one/s conducting the investigation) are now considering interviewing Christopher Steele, author of the dossier -- if they can find him. Meaning they trust the report.

3. Nothing in the dossier has been outright disproven yet.

 

[Tall4Life]

If the Republicans help impeach Trump they will *vomits* lose the #MAGA voting coalition. I think that awful segment of the population is what helped push the GOP over the edge. Without them, Democrats win.

 

[Vestal]

If the Republicans help impeach Trump they will *vomits* lose the #MAGA voting coalition. I think that awful segment of the population is what helped push the GOP over the edge. Without them, Democrats win.

You could say that is the only thing that is currently holding this entire thing together for the administration right now.

 

[teiresias]

I honestly can't wait to see Mika's face on Morning Joe on Monday.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You guys ever wonder what Dems would do in this situation right now?

 

[neurosisxeno]

Wait, all the stuff in the dossier released by Buzzfeed was true after all?

So far none of it has been refuted and a lot of it has been soft-confirmed. As in there's no concrete sources such as those involved admitting to it, but there's every indication it's legit (with the way events have played out) but no smoking gun. I'm holding out for the Pee Pee Tape. If that surfaces, oh boy.

You guys ever wonder what Dems would do in this situation right now?

Resign in disgrace. No way if this surfaced under a Democrat you'd see the kind of support from within the party Trump is getting for the sake of holding on to a majority control of the Federal Government.

 

[BSsBrolly]

I wonder if Trump has no clue where the leaks are coming from so he assumes Obama tapped his phones?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Resign in disgrace. No way if this surfaced under a Democrat you'd see the kind of support from within the party Trump is getting for the sake of holding on to a majority control of the Federal Government.

Yeah but let's say Tea Party Left takes off in 2018 and gets a bunch of crazy people in congress. Then Tulsi Gabbard wins the nomination and goes crazy.

 

[tuxfool]

Yeah but let's say Tea Party Left takes off in 2018 and gets a bunch of crazy people in congress. Then Tulsi Gabbard wins the nomination and goes crazy.

To be fair to them, they're not inherently corrupt at a fundamental level as those on the right.

 

[Crocodile]

I think for all its flaws, the Left is too diverse and too prone to be critical of its leaders and trust critical media (even if they don't like it from time to time) to get in lock step behind a "Democratic Trump"

 

[Emarv]

You guys ever wonder what Dems would do in this situation right now?

At least they would have gotten some legislation passed before it all blew up.

 

[thepotatoman]

You guys ever wonder what Dems would do in this situation right now?

Like if Bernie Sanders became president, dems controlled congress, and there was this much smoke around some nefarious Russia stuff?

They'd have every investigation apparatus working before he even took office, and never let his pro-russia appointments through. Most probably would be talking similar to how McCain and Graham are acting now, except actually acting on the rhetoric when time to take action. A few would already be full on parroting what the Republicans would say.

And that's without the bajillion other scandals that would be huge if they happened to any other president, but don't have much time to be talked about with this one.

 

[A Serious Man]

1. We know both through reporting and through circumstantial evidence that Flynn's conversation with the ambassador was tapped, and because tapping Americans is illegal -- even in conversations with foreigners -- we know there was a FISA warrant. (h/t Maddow detailed this perfectly last night).

2. We don't know if that warrant included more than Flynn, afaik.

Flynn wasn't tapped, the Russian Ambassador was. Those conversations were picked up as part of general survelliance on Russian officials. I believe it was reported that the FBI didn't even know who the Ambassador was talking to at first.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Yeah but let's say Tea Party Left takes off in 2018 and gets a bunch of crazy people in congress. Then Tulsi Gabbard wins the nomination and goes crazy.

At best, it'd be corruption only at the top. We've got competent people at other levels, and so regardless of how much Gabbard would blame the scandals on smear campaigns or BigWhatever coming for her, she'd probably be forced to resign in favor of some boring person to try to hold water.

1. We know both through reporting and through circumstantial evidence that Flynn's conversation with the ambassador was tapped, and because tapping Americans is illegal -- even in conversations with foreigners -- we know there was a FISA warrant. (h/t Maddow detailed this perfectly last night).

This wasn't my understanding. If you tap someone else that you can (like the Russian ambassador), then I don't think you have to stop the tape just because he calls an American. Same reason that I don't get to claim my rights were violated if I store evidence of my illegal drug business in a box at some other criminal's house and he gets hit with a warrant to search said box.

 

[mo60]

I'm actually really interested in how many Republicans think that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump.

Because ALL of #MAGA Twitter and Reddit believes this idea completely.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

It's crazier on Twitter where there's like 20 tweets a minute on #Obamagate

Looks at link and finds a thread posting evidence that attempts to implicit obama in illegal wiretapping. Lol.

 

[Teggy]

Ghost Stories dub was stuff of legends.

And yes, for those who don't know, the dubbing company turned a mediocre kids' horror show into basically the first "Abridged" show and got away with it.

I watched the first episode of this, its amazing.

 

[RastaMentality]

the left is incredibly critical of its leaders. that's why i couldn't see a democratic Trump ever coming to pass at least at this moment.

 

[Teggy]

the left is incredibly critical of its leaders. that's why i couldn't see a democratic Trump ever coming to pass at least at this moment.

Democrats would never embrace an anti intellectual. A more personable Jill Stein would still just be a whack job that no one would vote for. I don't know what a Trump of the left would look like.

 

[Crocodile]

Democrats would never embrace an anti intellectual. A more personable Jill Stein would still just be a whack job that no one would vote for. I don't know what a Trump of the left would look like.

Someone who fights for Left causes (Civil Rights, Environmental Protections, Pro-Choice, Gun Control, etc.) but with strong authoritarian tendencies? Someone like Stalin or Castro (but with less murder)?

 

[RastaMentality]

Someone who fights for Left causes (Civil Rights, Environmental Protections, Pro-Choice, Gun Control, etc.) but with strong authoritarian tendencies? Someone like Stalin or Castro (but with less murder)?

Unless they were incredibly charismatic and great at masking it, I can't see them not being intensely ridiculed by some section of the Left.

 

[Blader]

I really think nobody should even consider, much less plan their hopes and dreams around, a Trump impeachment. It's a distraction and it's not going to happen anyway.

 

[aTTckr]

Democrats would never embrace an anti intellectual. A more personable Jill Stein would still just be a whack job that no one would vote for. I don't know what a Trump of the left would look like.

Not so sure about that, afterall Bernie Sanders "almost" won the primary.

 

[aspiegamer]

I really think nobody should even consider, much less plan their hopes and dreams around, a Trump impeachment. It's a distraction and it's not going to happen anyway.

Zero faith in a GOP congress doing it, even if we had a video of Trump handing Putin the nuclear football. Hoping scandals keep Trump neutered and the administration as inactive as possible is probably the best case for now. His insanity will escalate as things look worse for him, too. Democrats having a public mandate for obstruction would be a good position, sort of like how things went downhill fast for W in 2005-6. Key difference vs GOP obstruction during Obama is that Obama remained popular through all 8 years.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

so this Trump guy

doesn't seem to be very good at the whole president thing

wonder if anyone thought of that prior to the election