I guess Supreme Court Time is a different scale
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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Did trump tweet? Yes? Then mission accomplished for Pyongyang.
Edit: oh and the missle worked too.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I think we're at the point where we need to issue a military ultimatum. If you pursue another military test, we will fire on a launch facility.
LOL no
this actually gives more leverage to NK, not less
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Yeah any line in the sand is going to enable nk to keep doing it because no one wants to go to war and deal with it, no matter how much they say otherwise.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Weird saying this but I wish Scalia hadn't died until 2021 just for the possibility that Trump would get no appointments.
Oh well, I can always smugly insist that Gorsuch is an invalid justice, just like how Bush was an invalid president. And Trump!
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
So if Dems, by some miracle, capture the Senate, they're not giving Trump one Justice, right? If Republicans can invent a rule that a presidential election is a good barometer for deciding what ideology of Justice should be appointed to the SC, then we can invent a rule that losing the chamber that appoints Justices at midterms is a statement by the American people that they don't want your ideology in the echelons of power, judicial included.
Like, do Republicans even realize when they are creating a system that can easily be used against them, or are they that clueless?
Like, do Republicans even realize when they are creating a system that can easily be used against them, or are they that clueless?
They realize it, they just gave no fucks and took the gamble that they'd be able to appoint more than just Gorsush.
But the precident is now there. If Dems get the Senate in 18, they can block it for two years and hopefully get a Dem president and keep the Senate and then, during that time when Ginsburg and Kennedy are gone, they can finally appoint their replacements.
VOTE. IN. THE. MIDTERMS.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Tbh the reasoning is pretty straightforward. Mueller is unlikely to have completed his investigation by then, so all you really have to do is stand back and go "we don't think a President facing an investigation for obstruction and collusion with a foreign power should be allowed to place a justice on the bench" and that's that.
As for Republicans, well, long-term thinking isn't really their strong suite at this point.
Although the possibility that they're just planning on canceling or invalidating elections still keeps me up some nights.
UberTag
Member
They won't cancel or invalidate elections until they're convinced they can't cheat the system via gerrymandering and voter suppression to win that way and have the guise of a mandate to govern by the citizenry.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
If you really want to saber rattle to NK it be in a way that makes China nervous. Like increasing troop presence and naval ships in the area. Make China think it's part of a long term build up and temp increase.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This would be a fucking awful idea. Yes, why not agitate the next burgeoning hegemon and sole nation with any meaningful degree of influence over North Korea to begin with, what could possibly go wrong?
So what you're saying Crab is that the Traitor is going to do it?
What the hell is wrong with you? Firing upon North Korea leads to immediate war, as they will use remaining missile assets to level any South Korean cities which can be used to host US forces.
There's no way this strategy doesn't kill millions.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Kennedy certainly realizes the political situation in the US.
Makes me wonder if we elected a regular Republican if he would be retiring now...
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Realistically, the only solution at this point re: North Korea is part-normalizing relations in exchange for concessions. Any military solution is causing the deaths of millions as a pretty standard baseline. Encouraging the regime to offer liberties that don't directly threaten their control while improving the standard of living for the average North Korean, in return for some comforts/amenities for the regime or some minor international prestige (co-hosting an Olympics with the South or some such), is probably the 'best' you can do. Still a terrible state of affairs, but better than a levelled Seoul.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I don't really think you could pull this off though; NK is secretive enough that they'd just lie about human rights violations. And then you just get awkward-in-hindsight photos like the Reagan freedom fighters pictures.
I don't really like it but the real final fix will be when the Kim family screws up and leave themselves open to a violent coup. Then they either peacefully flee the country and live in China in exile forever or they start a war to rally support and we have no choice but to intervene.
The latter seems likelier with how kookier they get every year. Song would've run off for sure.
That's never going to happen so long as North Korea is the way it is.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
This is like saying we should pull out of NATO. NK has a power like China at their backs. SK's military is not even close to a deterrent for them.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
is there a real possibility that North Korea signs an Iran style nuclear treaty? Furthermore, would this even happen under Trump?
timetokill
Banned
I really doubt SK wants the vast majority of their military backing suddenly gone.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Having troops in SK means that if NK bombs SK, they will bomb US troops and cause a US-NK war which will end their existence.
Removing troops from SK would be terrible, wtf.
Removing troops from SK would be terrible, wtf.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Y'all have a really, really, reallllllllly overoptimistic understanding of how the NK government operates.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Absolutely
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I missed this poll before, but I think it's the perfect microcosm of the effect of the Republican media bubble, and other factors (via reddit user foxnewsfun).
nymag compares wapost polling between airstrikes in Syria.
Democrats:
37% support Trump's Syria strikes
38% supported Obama doing it
Republicans:
86% supported Trump doing it
22% supported Obama doing it
Kinda speaks for itself, and can be used to extrapolate much of what is going on right now.
nymag compares wapost polling between airstrikes in Syria.
Democrats:
37% support Trump's Syria strikes
38% supported Obama doing it
Republicans:
86% supported Trump doing it
22% supported Obama doing it
Kinda speaks for itself, and can be used to extrapolate much of what is going on right now.
Personally I think avoiding an apocalyptic war is much better than trying to trigger one.
The presence of US troops (and more egregiously, US command of the South Korean military) aggravates and terrifies the North Koreans, whose national identity centers around defending from foreign assault. If we want to avoid war, the US needs to convince North Korea that they don't wish to level their country a second time. Withdrawing troops would send this signal, greatly reducing tensions and transforming North Korean politics. US presence also makes unification negotiations completely impossible, because China will not tolerate what they see as a US colony on their borders.
North Korea is experiencing a lot of economic growth and is inching toward more open diplomatic relations with the rest of the world. If Trump doesn't fuck this up, a more developed and democratic DPRK could be just beyond the horizon.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
If NK nukes SK, that's 30m dead which is fairly apocalyptic imo.
Anyway, this post is mostly just jumping from questionable assumption to questionable assumption and hoping that the questionable assumptions do all the work.
Poodlestrike
Banned
People who use the phrase "left wing media bubble" should be forced to live for the rest of their days in that thing from the Bubble Boy movie.
TiredofWinning
Member
Sotomayor is the only justice worth a damn, unfortunately I think she's too old to be able to make to the next Chief Justice opening.
I just don't find the post-Warren court outside of Sotomayor and Thurgood Marshall to be all that remarkable, far too cautious.
I just don't find the post-Warren court outside of Sotomayor and Thurgood Marshall to be all that remarkable, far too cautious.
If North Korea just wanted to nuke the South they would have done so years ago. North Korea has nuclear weapons, but seeks to use them as a deterrent tactic rather than launch an unprovoked assault on the South. After all, their primary foreign policy objective since 1953 has been survival.
I'd advise you to stop thinking of North Koreans as cartoonish villains bent on destruction and instead recognizing that their saber-rattling (though dangerous and unacceptable) is an effort to prevent their country from going the way of Libya.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Illinois Senate overrides Bruce Rauner's budget veto.
Now it's up to the House. Current word is the override vote will be noon Thursday. It initially passed with 72 votes* and they need 71 to override. If they can pull it off the state will have a budget for the first time in just over two years. This vote likely stands between Illinois and catastrophic consequences, including but not limited to the state's bonds being downgraded to junk. Rauner just doesn't care unfortunately, he's perfectly content to use the state as hostage to try and force his hard right agenda through.
*Technically the budget passed with 82 votes, but the income tax increase that's necessary to make the budget work only got 72. You may think that voting for the budget after voting against the tax increase is pretty cowardly. You'd be right.
Now it's up to the House. Current word is the override vote will be noon Thursday. It initially passed with 72 votes* and they need 71 to override. If they can pull it off the state will have a budget for the first time in just over two years. This vote likely stands between Illinois and catastrophic consequences, including but not limited to the state's bonds being downgraded to junk. Rauner just doesn't care unfortunately, he's perfectly content to use the state as hostage to try and force his hard right agenda through.
*Technically the budget passed with 82 votes, but the income tax increase that's necessary to make the budget work only got 72. You may think that voting for the budget after voting against the tax increase is pretty cowardly. You'd be right.
Reminds me of this poll taken right before the election where evangelicals decided it was a okay for their politicians to be immoral as long as that person tells them what they want to hear.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...iticians-immoral-acts/?utm_term=.c828bb07418b
The GOP being giant hypocrites doesn't surprise me though what with the Senate majority leader being the king when it comes to this kind of thing.
Yeah, I've been watching this like a hawk and I am severely hoping we have enough votes to pull this off in the house. Not getting one will make a bad situation way worse then it should be.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Illinois is lost forever my friend.
TiredofWinning
Member
You really don't think Rauner can be defeated?
I mean Illinois has been lost forever though, point to me a not-corrupt Springfield or not-corrupt Cook County. That state has been beyond hope for as long as it's existed.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The problem is that Illinois has totally degraded taxpayers' confidence that the money is going to go toward any kind of a good end.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Look, I'm just being realistic here. The only states Democrats can hope to win next year are California and New York. If we can even hold 100 seats in the House, that will be cause for celebration. Trump is teflon and his base still approves of him, McConnell smiled, Kennedy talking about retiring, the kingdom is lost.
Autodidact
Banned
Literally shaking.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I know, it's a pretty horrifying reality.
If only we'd elected Martin O'Malley who was wronged by the DNC, superdelegates and voters.
Outdoor Miner
Member
https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/882248173527474176
Joy Reid is giving me life in this thread. She is a national treasure.
Joy Reid is giving me life in this thread. She is a national treasure.
Abinash117
Member
Seems naive to think so with the how the government and society is. Nothing wrong with being sympathetic to NK, but people need to understand that not every country is going to be friendly and they are people too; with their own agenda. Their agenda is not going to line up with what you think.
It is dangerous to assume that leaving will make things better and the NK government not using that to push their agenda against SK. It is an assumption that the NK government is sensible and the true victim in this, and as long as the US leaves then they will suddenly get their act together.
How I see it there would be no reason for NK to stop pursing nukes as US leaving would relieve pressure off of them allowing to do what they want. Unification is impossible because the cultures are alien and the many people in NK likely will quickly escape for SK for a better life. Additionally, the economy and there is more population the country would be vastly overshadowed in many areas. The government can't really afford to lose the power they have over their people. A deal would have to vastly favor NK over anything.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I'm sorry but this is naive. NK hasn't moved on SK because they have a superpower to worry about. What you're suggesting is quite literally the same thing as us leaving NATO.
And I legitimately laughed at the cartoon villain line. Are you familiar with North Korea?
It might have merit, because NK knows that they'd lose any war they fought. The problem is that they also know we don't want to fight a war, so cruise missile strikes would likely be matched by retaliatory strikes on SK, a sort of lukewarm war with short-range missiles only.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Pulling out of SK would give more power to China in the Asia. There are reasons that we are in there in the first place.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
I'd wager most of the people in charge of NK also know they'd lose. But they know anyone who fights it is going to lose anyway and part of their end goal is making it so catastrophic to the US / the west that makes people think twice.
¯_(ツ
_/¯. You could be right. Idk. I think we are decades beyond any reasonable military action in that area.balladofwindfishes
Member
Saw my first MAGA hat in the wild at a buffet in a horse track/casino today.
That's what I get for leaving the city and traveling out to the farms.
That's what I get for leaving the city and traveling out to the farms.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I saw two confederate flags in our local parade today. I almost did something stupid.
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