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[eBay Huckster]

russia literally hacked our elections and there's nothing stopping them from doing so again. let's throw money at them because they promised a ceasefire in one specific part of syria

 

[Blader]

Sorry, man, I can't support this cold war with Russia. It's de-escalation across the board, this totally seems in line with something that Obama would have done btw.

Fully on board, we don't even know what we gave up, if anything.

If Obama wanted to ease sanctions on Russia over Ukraine to strike a ceasefire in Syria, then Obama would have done it

"Something that Obama would have done" seems like a meaningless what-if to imagine given how we have a years-long track record of what Obama did.

 

[PBY]

Ya'll have gone full hawk on this Russia stuff, I can't follow you there. We don't even know if the sanctions have been lifted, and we have a ceasefire.

This is a good thing.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Only our freedom as a nation, probably.

Probably trying to lift sanctions or give them back the two places we took from them.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Ya'll have gone full hawk on this Russia stuff, I can't follow you there.

you can't seem to follow a train of coherent thought that acknowledges russia literally hacking our electoral process not even a year ago, so honestly who gives a shit

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

doesn't matter if you don't support the cold war, it seems like cold war 2 the election boogalo has started with or without your support.

the ceasefire is meaningless, we haven't been blasting each other.

Sanctions need more teeth, we need even more sanctions on russia after there massive election interference, not just in the us but across the world.

Sanctions have crippled there economy, more sanctions will get them to stop this shit, its the ONLY thing they react to.

 

[PBY]

doesn't matter if you don't support the cold war, it seems like cold war 2 the election boogalo has started with or without your support.

the ceasefire is meaningless, we haven't been blasting each other.

Sanctions need more teeth, we need even more sanctions on russia after there massive election interference, not just in the us but across the world.

Sanctions have crippled there economy, more sanctions will get them to stop this shit, its the ONLY thing they react to.

This is madness to me.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Isn't there some way the Senate could ratify the sanctions as a treaty so as to keep Trump from touching them? Based on the way they voted on the last Russia sanctions bill, this might be the best way to keep some form of discouraging Russian hacking until we can get our shit together over here.

 

[barber]

Sorry, man, I can't support this cold war with Russia. It's de-escalation across the board, this totally seems in line with something that Obama would have done btw.

Fully on board, we don't even know what we gave up, if anything.

Hey, I am all in with de-escalation with Russia, like when it was tried in the 2000s and actually was successful. But now? They have invaded a sovereign country, hacked in the election of your contry and are the main guys keeping Asad. De-escalation requires for them to surrender positions, not basically giving lip service.

 

[Ogodei]

Sorry, man, I can't support this cold war with Russia. It's de-escalation across the board, this totally seems in line with something that Obama would have done btw.

Fully on board, we don't even know what we gave up, if anything.

You can't and shouldn't get rewarded for de-escalating something that you started in the first place. That's bush league, North Korean style brinksmanship.

Russia gets sanctions relief when Ukraine's territorial integrity is restored (though i'm willing to look the other way on Crimea because the people there might legitimately want to be part of Russia, mostly about getting out of Donbas).

 

[PBY]

Hey, I am all in with de-escalation with Russia, like when it was tried in the 2000s and actually was successful. But now? They have invaded a sovereign country, hacked in the election of your party and are the main guys keeping Asad. De-escalation requires for them to surrender positions, not basically giving lip service.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/index.html

If you read these terms, as reported, how can you be against this?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

This is madness to me.

Well then you've clearly had your head up your ass for everything related to Russia for the past year and a half.

 

[Blader]

Ya'll have gone full hawk on this Russia stuff, I can't follow you there. We don't even know if the sanctions have been lifted, and we have a ceasefire.

This is a good thing.

RUSSIA HACKED INTO OUR GODDAMN ELECTION AS AN INFLUENCE OP. AND IT WORKED.

Jesus Christ dude, there's no cold war hawking happening here. We were attacked on one of our most fundamental levels as a democracy. The response to that should not be to lift a unrelated set of sanctions on our attacker, which we know Trump has been desperate to do for months.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Isn't there some way the Senate could ratify the sanctions as a treaty so as to keep Trump from touching them? Based on the way they voted on the last Russia sanctions bill, this might be the best way to keep some form of discouraging Russian hacking until we can get our shit together over here.

Probably and I do expect this to be the case. I don't think the sanctions are going away anytime soon.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Probably trying to lift sanctions or give them back the two places we took from them.

I hope it's the latter and not the former. I really really hope it's the latter.

 

[barber]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/index.html

If you read these terms, as reported, how can you be against this?

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/04/12/another-failed-ceasefire-in-ukraine/
Because of this.
EDIT: I stand by my friends of the Baltic countries like Estonia and Latvia, until Russia stops trying to get land from sovereign countries and pays radical parties along Europe...

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

There have been countless ceasefire announcements in the past. What makes this one different?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

There have been countless ceasefire announcements in the past. What makes this one different?

This time, Trump gives Russia goodies!

 

[BlastProcessing]

But.. wouldn't you rather have a cease fire than sanctions?

No. Letting Russia invade and annex land with no repercussions is bad. The US subverting itself to Russian interests in Syria doesn't change that.

Ya'll have gone full hawk on this Russia stuff, I can't follow you there. We don't even know if the sanctions have been lifted, and we have a ceasefire.

This is a good thing.

It's not going full hawk to say that appeasing the first European invasion and annexation since WW2 is a bad thing. It's really not.

 

[eBay Huckster]

There have been countless ceasefire announcements in the past. What makes this one different?

they really, really mean it this time

 

[Resident_UA]

Sorry, man, I can't support this cold war with Russia. It's de-escalation across the board, this totally seems in line with something that Obama would have done btw.

Fully on board, we don't even know what we gave up, if anything.

This is literally the logic that people in Ukraine used to be friends with Russia until 2013... As a result Ukraine was not prepared to deal with Russia when it switched into full USSR mode. If Putin wants something he WILL get it. Making deals with him is only going to make his life easier.

 

[Veritigo_X]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/index.html

If you read these terms, as reported, how can you be against this?

Are you joking with this shit? Russia has literally broken every ceasefire agreement they've made in Ukraine.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Trump Putin meeting reaches 2 hour mark, our @Kevinliptakcnn reports.

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/883358408052797440

 

[TumblingHippo]

Seems like all the people telling others to not worry about Russia are probably the ones who have the least to lose if we start sliding even further into Russian-style bigotry in this country.

I mean, I just want some assurance from them then that I won't one day end up in a Russia-style gay concentration camp from us being so buddy-buddy with them.

 

[Resident_UA]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/index.html

If you read these terms, as reported, how can you be against this?

As somebody who was born in Ukraine and follows Ukrainian news I can tell you with confidence that Russia was just bullshitting. In fact they dialed up attacks as Trump was becoming the president. They really know how to send a message.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

Unbelievable that people still think what russia did was nothing. If this were during the cold war that would've been considered an act of war.

Sanction the hell out of them, even more fund gas pipelines from the EU to the border eu states and non eu states to further cripple russia's natural gas and oil economy.


In a stand off with a bully you don't go passive and give, you fight the bully.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Sanctions have crippled there economy, more sanctions will get them to stop this shit, its the ONLY thing they react to.

Didn't Russia go after the US while many of the crippling sanctions by way of executive order and congressional action were in effect? The ones Obama put in place right before he left were largely symbolic.

 

[PBY]

Unbelievable that people still think what russia did was nothing. If this were during the cold war that would've been considered an act of war.

Sanction the hell out of them, even more fund gas pipelines from the EU to the border eu states and non eu states to further cripple russia's natural gas and oil economy.


In a stand off with a bully you don't go passive and give, you fight the bully.

"You fight the bully"??

Jesus christ man.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The whole reason we're at this point now is because everyone thought the Cold War was over and Russia was beyond it but it turned out they were just biding their time and building grudges over their loss. Now the fruit of that scheming is coming to fruition.

 

[Blader]

PBY's transformation from "I don't want Russia to crowd out our messaging on healthcare" to Russian appeasement, in real time across PoliGAF threads, is kinda funny in its own way.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Trump Putin meeting reaches 2 hour mark, our @Kevinliptakcnn reports.

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/883358408052797440

 

[barber]

Didn't Russia go after the US while many of the crippling sanctions by way of executive order and congressional action were in effect? The ones Obama put in place right before he left were largely symbolic.

As can be seen in Iran, sanctions take a time to have a full effect on the economy, but right now with the petrol prices and the sanctions, Russia's economy is not looking good

 

[PBY]

PBY's transformation from "I don't want Russia to crowd out our messaging on healthcare" to Russian appeasement, in real time across PoliGAF threads, is kinda funny in its own way.

I like this ceasefire and think its a good thing =/= appeasement.

You all realize more intense sanctions is like, squarely, a GOP position?

 

[jmdajr]

Guess Trump and Putin have been Bro'ing for awhile.

 

[RumbleHumble]

The whole reason we're at this point now is because everyone thought the Cold War was over and Russia was beyond it but it turned out they were just biding their time and building grudges over their loss. Now the fruit of that scheming is coming to fruition.

We're basically living the plot of Red Alert 2 right now.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

"You fight the bully"??

Jesus christ man.

then you're passive and they continue to interfere with our elections and are emboldened by it and act more aggressively and damage our interests and allies.

as you stand by and watch everything you grew up with and known degrade.

 

[Blader]

The whole reason we're at this point now is because everyone thought the Cold War was over and Russia was beyond it but it turned out they were just biding their time and building grudges over their loss. Now the fruit of that scheming is coming to fruition.

They haven't been biding their time since '91, their economy and quality of life has just been awful and Putin is very adept at getting them to ignore their problems at home by channeling their frustrations into the antagonist abroad. Sounds like someone else I know!

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Ya'll have gone full hawk on this Russia stuff, I can't follow you there. We don't even know if the sanctions have been lifted, and we have a ceasefire.

This is a good thing.

Russia violated our national sovereignty by interfering with the Presidential election. If it wasn't for the presence of nuclear weapons that should be considered an act of war. This isn't something we can turn a blind eye to.

 

[Resident_UA]

I like this ceasefire and think its a good thing =/= appeasement.

"Ceasefire" is appeasement. I mean there are multiple examples that show that Russia doesn't give a shit about ceasefire and you still assume that THIS time it will work. It's just exchanging something tangible (whatever Putin asks for) for an empty promise.

 

[~Kinggi~]

I mean Trump is getting years worth of instructions right now of course it will last hours.

 

[Blader]

I like this ceasefire and think its a good thing =/= appeasement.

Lifting Ukraine sanctions without any change in their Ukraine policy -- not to mention doing so in the aftermath of a Russian cyberattack launched against our democracy -- for another toothless ceasefire is appeasement. You're literally giving them what they want and not punishing them for what they've done!

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Apropos of nothing in particular, here's a fun story I read today that's not at all worrisome.

Russians Are Suspects in Nuclear Site Hackings, Sources Say
Attacks could pave way to disrupt U.S. electric grid

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-07/russians-are-said-to-be-suspects-in-hacks-involving-nuclear-site?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

[TheLaughingStock]

As can be seen in Iran, sanctions take a time to have a full effect on the economy, but right now with the petrol prices and the sanctions, Russia's economy is not looking good

It seems to me that they continue to do what they want to do. Their economy wasn't great in 2016 according to official statistics and they still launched one of the most damaging cyberattacks in human history.

 

[PBY]

Russia violated our national sovereignty by interfering with the Presidential election. If it wasn't for the presence of nuclear weapons that should be considered an act of war. This isn't something we can turn a blind eye to.

We know they tried to hack us. Obama placed fairly weak sanctions on them very late.

Blame Obama then for how my interpretation of how serious this hacking was and the level of threat Russia actually presents.

 

[A Serious Man]

Y'all ready for all the "master dealmaker" narratives we're about to get hit with?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

As can be seen in Iran, sanctions take a time to have a full effect on the economy, but right now with the petrol prices and the sanctions, Russia's economy is not looking good

We have sanctions on individuals and companies, not blanket economic sanction like with Iran/NK. Those target sanctions we have on Russian officials and government are largely meant to agitate and scare off investment. I've said it before but we need to move to broad economic sanctions on Russia, Putin's empire is inseparable from the Russian economy at this point so if he wants to behave the North Korea, then he should be treated as such.

 

[Veritigo_X]

We know they tried to hack us. Obama placed fairly weak sanctions on them very late.

Blame Obama then for how my interpretation of how serious this hacking was and the level of threat Russia actually presents.

Dude, this is literally a Trump talking point. Like, word for word.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Sorry, man, I can't support this cold war with Russia. It's de-escalation across the board, this totally seems in line with something that Obama would have done btw.

Fully on board, we don't even know what we gave up, if anything.

If you think this is de-escalation Putin fooled you just like he wants.

We know they tried to hack us. Obama placed fairly weak sanctions on them very late.

You understand that appease to Putin that Trump will not only give the hackers back the compounds on our soil that Obama took from them, he will try to drop the sanctions that were imposed over Crimea/Ukraine?

For nothing.

And Putin will use this to cause more atrocities.

 

[PBY]

Dude, this is literally a Trump talking point. Like, word for word.

Where is the lie though?

 

[ShironRedshift]

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/04/12/another-failed-ceasefire-in-ukraine/
Because of this.
EDIT: I stand by my friends of the Balkan countries like Estonia and Latvia, until Russia stops trying to get land from sovereign countries and pays radical parties along Europe...

There have been countless ceasefire announcements in the past. What makes this one different?

This is literally the logic that people in Ukraine used to be friends with Russia until 2013... As a result Ukraine was not prepared to deal with Russia when it switched into full USSR mode. If Putin wants something he WILL get it. Making deals with him is only going to make his life easier.

Pretty much. No way this ceasefire will last more than a month or two. It's completely empty posturing. Unless we're just going to ignore Putin's entire history, which is either just being incredibly disingenuous or incredibly naive. I see no reason to humor either.