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[Gruco]

Tax reform will be interesting. In a lot of ways it is politically just as hard as health care, but the main difference is that there is much more institutional support for it within the republican party. Or at least cuts, if not necessarily reform.

I have a hard time imagining a lot of these jokers just trading away the home mortgage interest deduction for lower corporate rates or whatever, though. My best guess is that they're all going to quickly find themselves in a situation where the best case scenario becomes a party-line Bush-style sunsetting 10 year tax cut.

I don't see a reason to believe anything will happen on infastructure.

 

[Wilsongt]

The odds of a consensus bipartisan speaker are less than zero.

This is what happens when white people get up in arms and elect people to obstruct and beat down a black man as opposed to actually doing anything meaningful for the country.

 

[Barzul]

This would still need Trump's approval right? Assuming unless they get enough votes for an override.

Force him to veto it. I'd love to see that.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Trump has to be fuming right now.

This is absolutely a good thing and I hope they get something done.

Perhaps this will be the catalyst for the Republicans to actually take their jobs seriously and legislate. We need two functional political parties, we can't lock ourselves into this constant loop of Democrats passing sweeping reform legislation for two years and then 10 years of obstructionist GOP fuckery. The only two major bills to pass the House this Congress are a repeal of ACA and of Dodd-Frank. That's fucking dumb.

GOP legitimately trying to improve ACA would be great, it would be an acknowledgment that it's here to stay and that both parties have a responsibility to make the country better.

I don't want to get too ahead of myself because the devil is in the details and this is nowhere near a sure thing, I just want the fever to finally break.

 

[Tamanon]

Tax reform will be pretty tough. The whole reason they were doing Trumpcare was to get the money for their sweet, sweet tax cuts.

 

[broz0rs]

Senior GOP Senator Lamar Alexander already moving on to stabilizing individual markets

https://twitter.com/senalexander/status/887398287292207104

 

[jtb]

McConnell commands no more respect from Republican Senators and he burned many bridges with this healthcare failure. He left GOP senators on both ends of the spectrum feeling abused and disrespected.

McConnell is only lucky Trump is in his party, or he'd be the most embarrassing leader of the party currently in office.

You say that as if there is a single Republican senator with a spine. Furrowed brows galore. Leak a few quotes to the press. As long as he gives them money for their re-elect, they'll be on their knees begging.

There was never a viable replacement plan. At that point, all the McConnell secret drafting stuff and backroom anger is just theater to help save their jobs.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Force him to veto it. I'd love to see that.

He'd do it. I don't doubt it for a second.

You say that as if there is a single Republican senator with a spine. Furrowed brows galore. Leak a few quotes to the press. As long as he gives them money for their re-elect, they'll be on their knees begging.

The last month hasn't shown you that there's at least a handful of GOP senators who actually do have standards?

McConnell hurt a lot of feelings with this whole thing. People like Collins and Johnson are going to be less likely to go along with McConnell in the future due to this failure.

 

[jtb]

He'd do it. I don't doubt it for a second.



The last month hasn't shown you that there's at least a handful of GOP senators who actually do have standards?

McConnell hurt a lot of feelings with this whole thing. People like Collins and Johnson are going to be less likely to go along with McConnell in the future due to this failure.

Uh, no?

I'd like to see your list, because there's nobody on mine.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Uh, no?

I'd like to see your list, because there's nobody on mine.

To be fair, there has to be some by default given this bill has failed when they have a majority. Even if some grew those spines for the wrong reasons.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Uh, no?

I'd like to see your list, because there's nobody on mine.

Your posts seem like they come from an alternate universe where the GOP caved and the repeal passed 52-48.

We had plenty of senators who were hard nos through this entire process, for various reasons. But they stuck to those reasons.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Uh, no?

I'd like to see your list, because there's nobody on mine.

Yeah I'd go with this line of thinking. God damn, so many of them just jumped on a bandwagon without even reading the fucking bill.

McCain throwing up his hands about the process but still promising to vote for this shit was an example of that.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Force him to veto it. I'd love to see that.

He'd do it. I don't doubt it for a second.



The last month hasn't shown you that there's at least a handful of GOP senators who actually do have standards?

McConnell hurt a lot of feelings with this whole thing. People like Collins and Johnson are going to be less likely to go along with McConnell in the future due to this failure.

I don't doubt that he'd be stupid enough to veto any measure that would help stabilize the individual markets, but once he does so he himself will totally own the collapse of Obamacare if it gets to that point.

 

[jtb]

Your posts seem like they come from an alternate universe where the GOP caved and the repeal passed 52-48.

We had plenty of senators who were hard nos through this entire process, for various reasons. But they stuck to those reasons.

I come from a universe where passing this bill would have been political suicide from the very first Obamacare repeal vote they sent through congress a few years ago. A suicide pact that they put themselves in, and were happy to partake in!

 

[sc0la]

We should ask for the permanent retiring of the debt ceiling, since it serves no purpose.

This.

"But where will we drive our catestrophic brinksmanship we use an excuse to cut spending and services for poor people?!" -GOP

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I come from a universe where passing this bill would have been political suicide. A suicide pact that they put themselves in, and were happy to partake in!

Literally every politician ever votes on whether things are going to get them re-elected or not.

But I find it hard to say someone like Rand Paul didn't show at least some backbone through this entire thing. He didn't let up.

 

[Crocodile]

Dem slogan for 2018: "We can actually Govern!"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...except-when-he-doesnt/?utm_term=.791752f7a8d6

I hate this man so much >_<

 

[Dan]

Hah, State Department spokesperson pauses presser to ask how many Russian news agencies are in the room. Three. Then she praises freedom of the press.

 

[jtb]

Literally every politician ever votes on whether things are going to get them re-elected or not.

But I find it hard to say someone like Rand Paul didn't show at least some backbone through this entire thing. He didn't let up.

That's funny, I actually have lost the most respect for Rand Paul through it all. I guess that explains why we're coming at it from opposite angles!

 

[Zolo]

I hate this man so much >_<

For what it's worth, that's most Repubs. They only believe in state rights when it's something they don't like; not as a matter of principle.

 

[JettDash]

Shelley Moore Capito:

https://twitter.com/SenCapito/status/887319867208204292/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[balladofwindfishes]

That's funny, I actually have lost the most respect for Rand Paul through it all. I guess that explains why we're coming at it from opposite angles!

Rand Paul was a big reason the first vote failed. He did not compromise at all unless they offered a straight repeal.

 

[Slizeezyc]

except for Voldemort (I mean what the fuck Florida you are literally the most likely place to get fucked over by climate change) the bad news isn't *that* bad. Hogan and Baker are lame and it sucks that people get boners for moderate Rs but they won't be that bad. Shit numbers for Walker or Snyder on the other hand means we have a chance to make big improvements.

As a resident of Skeletor's state, I can tell you he got brownie points for being "crisis mayor" and the hurricane(s) down here not being too bad this past year. And then also his sabotaging of solar and such didn't pass so he didn't get to be nailed for that.

On top of that, this is probably one of the best states to get away with being openly corrupt as long as you don't chap the old people in other ways. Also, no one in the Democratic party has a known face here beyond old man Bill Nelson, so Scott gets boosted just by being known. I still have solid faith in the Governor race next year since it's unclear who is even going to lead on the Republican side, and I like some of the names in the Dem field as it stands.

 

[jtb]

Rand Paul was a big reason the first vote failed. He did not compromise at all unless they offered a straight repeal.

And you believe that?

 

[RustyNails]

We should ask for the permanent retiring of the debt ceiling, since it serves no purpose.

This has about as much of a chance of happening as US adopting MMT economics.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Hah, State Department spokesperson pauses presser to ask how many Russian news agencies are in the room. Three. Then she praises freedom of the press.

I can't tell if that's a knock against us or Russia.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

I can't tell if that's a knock against us or Russia.

yes.

 

[sc0la]

yes.

Beaten

 

[Futurevoid]

Christie doing acrobatics to not outright call Don Jr. dumb right now lol.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Shelley Moore Capito:

https://twitter.com/SenCapito/status/887319867208204292/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

WV is one of the states helped most by the ACA. Obama was rewarded for it by a big shift in Romney's direction despite McCain already winning easily. And then for extra spite moving big in Trump's direction still. Now we should do what we can to help WV for moral reasons, but it sure isn't winning us their votes.

 

[Fenderputty]

People care about debt when the right-wing media endlessly shouts about how Democrats are endlessly taxing the middle class and spending all that money for nothing. When a Republican is in charge suddenly the right-wing media drops that talking point, so people stop caring about it. It also doesn't help that most people don't understand how national debt works, hence why people think "running the country like a business" is a good idea

Usually the right tries to hide their debt behind the idea that lowering taxes will create more revenues which will cancel out the debt. This falls in line with Reganomics and roughly half the country thinking this is a good economic plan.

Trump kinda did that during the campaign with his tax ideas, but he also admitted spending / debt wouldn't slow down because he wants infrastructure, a wall and extra military spending. This is what he campaigned on.

In short: I think a lot of the public's acceptance of debt has to do with messaging.

 

[Zolo]

Usually the right tries to hide their debt behind the idea that lowering taxes will create more revenues which will cancel out the debt. This falls in line with Reganomics and roughly half the country thinking this is a good economic plan.

Trump kinda did that during the campaign with his tax ideas, but he also admitted spending / debt wouldn't slow down because he wants infrastructure, a wall and extra military spending. This is what he campaigned on.

In short: I think a lot of the public's acceptance of debt has to do with messaging.

Short version: Your average person/voter doesn't know much about anything about this stuff and don't care to learn more, so it's mainly just messaging.

 

[Dan]

I can't tell if that's a knock against us or Russia.

yes.

Indeed.

 

[Kusagari]

As a resident of Skeletor's state, I can tell you he got brownie points for being "crisis mayor" and the hurricane(s) down here not being too bad this past year. And then also his sabotaging of solar and such didn't pass so he didn't get to be nailed for that.

On top of that, this is probably one of the best states to get away with being openly corrupt as long as you don't chap the old people in other ways. Also, no one in the Democratic party has a known face here beyond old man Bill Nelson, so Scott gets boosted just by being known. I still have solid faith in the Governor race next year since it's unclear who is even going to lead on the Republican side, and I like some of the names in the Dem field as it stands.

One of the most hilarious thing about Voldemort's eight years to me has been how every single legislature he personally crafts and campaigns for has not only failed to meet the 60% threshold, but can't even meet the 50% standard.

It's like we keep electing these right wing shit heads but then have them end up looking better than they should because we don't back anything they put up to popular vote.

 

[Stinkles]

Chris Christie (a former prosecutor) just said on MSNBC that the meeting could not possibly have been collusion because.... Rob Goldstone didn't know if the information was good or not...


WTF Christie.

Then said that he (Trump jr) didn't collude because he said he didn't collude.

 

[Fenderputty]

Rand Paul was a big reason the first vote failed. He did not compromise at all unless they offered a straight repeal.

I still suspect Paul knew the bill was garbage and would hurt his constituents but couldn't say why he truly wanted this to fail. So he played the ultra conservative card to protect from possible primary challengers while accomplishing the same thing. I'm not sure I would call that backbone, but I do appreciate his consistency!

 

[Sciz]

Senior GOP Senator Lamar Alexander already moving on to stabilizing individual markets

https://twitter.com/senalexander/status/887398287292207104

Hah. Lamar has to get something done to shore up TN's healthcare market, or he, Corker, and the state legislature are finally going to eat their well-deserved blame for rejecting better plans at every available opportunity for the last several years. Miserable bastard.

 

[JettDash]

Rand Paul would not have voted for the bill no matter what.

He would have said it didn't repeal enough of Obamacare, no matter what. Even that "full" repeal that Obama vetoed in 2015 still had the regulations.

Real motive is that he's actually a decent guy and wants to protect the people of Kentucky, who have benefited more from Obamacare than probably any state.

 

[jtb]

WV is one of the states helped most by the ACA. Obama was rewarded for it by a big shift in Romney's direction despite McCain already winning easily. And then for extra spite moving big in Trump's direction still. Now we should do what we can to help WV for moral reasons, but it sure isn't winning us their votes.

WV has always been a pretty unique state politically. It really only started its rightward drift with Al Gore's environmentalism.

 

[JettDash]

WV is one of the states helped most by the ACA. Obama was rewarded for it by a big shift in Romney's direction despite McCain already winning easily. And then for extra spite moving big in Trump's direction still. Now we should do what we can to help WV for moral reasons, but it sure isn't winning us their votes.

They are actually smart enough to have two Senators that are against Trumpcare.

 

[kirblar]

WV has always been a pretty unique state politically. It really only started its rightward drift with Al Gore's environmentalism.

It was a state built on labor power.

When there are no jobs, there is no longer any labor power.

 

[Slizeezyc]

One of the most hilarious thing about Voldemort's eight years to me has been how every single legislature he personally crafts and campaigns for has not only failed to meet the 60% threshold, but can't even meet the 50% standard.

It's like we keep electing these right wing shit heads but then have them end up looking better than they should because we don't back anything they put up to popular vote.

Yeah for sure. That's why I said basically as long as you don't actually screw up at the end line, you won't get nailed for your actual shadiness and plans to screw over people. People just aren't as invested in the state beyond certain things, maybe because so many people aren't from here (and old people vote the way they vote).

 

[Loxley]

BBC's US correspondent is pretty on-point:

Not a good strategy - Anthony Zurcher, BBC News, Washington

Call it Mr Trump's "Joker" option for Obamacare repeal. Do nothing, and watch the world burn. Explaining how your dastardly plan will go down seldom works for cartoon villains, however, and it may not be the best strategy for presidents either.

By telling Americans he's going to let the US healthcare system collapse in order to rally support for an eventual fix, he's essentially taking responsibility for anything bad that happens in the coming days. Despite his protestations that he won't "own" what happens next, he just stuffed the receipt in his pocket.

Premiums go up? Insurance providers pull out of state individual markets? Democrats can say it's part of the president's plan to sabotage the system. All the while Mr Trump's opponents can point to the Congressional Budget Office's findings that, without White House meddling, the insurance markets would be relatively stable.

Then again, at this point, the president has few good options. His promises to eventually work with Democrats are undermined by his pledges to defeat them at the ballot box next year. He clearly can't move forward with Republicans alone.

All that's left is to walk away and hope for the worst.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And you believe that?

We have no evidence to the contrary. He was a no right up until they proposed a clean repeal and even then he was still silent.

 

[kirblar]

We have no evidence to the contrary. He was a no right up until they proposed a clean repeal and even then he was still silent.

The evidence lies in the fact that his position makes no sense.

He's staked out a position with demands that cannot possibly be met on a bill that can pass.

This means that he deliberately wants to vote "No" and is engineering a rationale that allows him to do so without telling people the actual reason why. Once you consider the impact that repeal would have on his state, the game he's playing becomes obvious.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The evidence lies in the fact that his position makes no sense.

He's staked out a position with demands that cannot possibly be met on a bill that can pass.

This means that he deliberately wants to vote "No" and is engineering a rationale that allows him to do so without telling people the actual reason why. Once you consider the impact that repeal would have on his state, the game he's playing becomes obvious.

That doesn't take away from Rand Paul showing at least a little backbone towards his state's well being, whatever excuse he ended up giving.

 

[JettDash]

That "clean" repeal bill the turtle wanted a vote on isn't even a full repeal of Obamacare. Doesn't repeal regulations. Rand Paul would have had a perfectly believable explanation.

 

[Y2Kev]

Senate Ds pathetic! Vote Karen H!

 

[Futurevoid]

Tara Palmeri&#8207;Verified account
@tarapalmeri

Campaign aides Lewendowski & Bossie spotted in West Wing on day healthcare bill collapses, per WH officials. Trump turning to old hands?

Annie Karni&#8207;Verified account @anniekarni 20m20 minutes ago

Also spotted in the West Wing, meeting with Bannon today, as WH pivots away from healthcare and onto other issues: Kris Kobach.

The rogue's gallery of horrible people and white nationalist assholes.

 

[BlastProcessing]

@Lucian_Kim
Scoop: @ianbremmer says Trump had second, private meeting with Putin during G20 summit.