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[BenjaminBirdie]

Andrew Sullivan:

The Palin pick sure will win headlines. It wasn't completely out of the blue, but it's a little mystifying for one obvious reason. If McCain's entire argument so far has been that Obama is too untested to be president, then how can he pick a 44-year-old first-term governor of a state with 600,000 people with no foreign policy experience whatsoever?
What this means, it seems to me, is that McCain has decided he cannot win without Clinton Democrats, and this is his attempt to win them over. He has decided that he cannot win on the experience card, so he is trying to pick the change card. Palin's record on climate change is certainly impressive - and she seems a charming, capable person. She is certainly a different kind of pick for a Southern-based GOP. But McCain will be the oldest first term president in history with a history of health concerns. If America is concerned that Obama isn't ready, how could anyone say Palin is?

The more I think about it, the more staggered I am by the pick. It's totally about electioneering (misguidedly, I'd hazard, but I don't know enough about her to know yet) and fundamentally unserious about governing.
The first criterion for a veep - and I'm simply repeating a truism here - is that they are ready to take over at a moment's notice. That's especially true when you have a candidate as old as McCain. That's more than especially true when we are at war, in an era of astonishingly difficult challenges, when the next president could be grappling with war in the Middle East or a catastrophic terror attack at home. Under those circumstances, we could have a former Miss Alaska with two terms under her belt as governor. Now compare McCain's pick with Obama's: a man with solid foreign policy experience, six terms in Washington and real relationships with leaders across the globe.
One pick is by a man of judgment; the other is by a man of vanity.
She may be a fine person, but she's my age, she has zero Washington experience, and no foreign policy expertise whatsoever.
McCain has just told us how seriously he takes the war we are in. Not seriously at all.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

 

[pxleyes]

How many "angry supporters that won't vote for Obama" are in the US to sway an election?

300

 

[Flo_Evans]

I'd say this will piss of more sexists than draw women to the McCain ticket.

 

[Door2Dawn]

I think he's actually in it now :\

Well thats because you're a hand wringer.

A very common demographic among Obama supporters.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

What a completely offensive statement that should earn you a ban if GAF was as 'anti-Christian' as you think it is. Just imagine if you said:

God please keep out the Jews. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the blacks. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the homos. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the moo-slims. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the mexicans. they arnt yet welcome in politics

etc.

yea your right, it is totally similar:lol

by the way did you ever think it might be a joke???

 

[Fatalah]

Is Drudgereport actually down?

 

[VistraNorrez]

This is a bit like saying Obama can no longer talk about his early opposition to the war, since he picked someone who voted for it. The reality is, the VP picks will not change the core arguments of either campaign.

I basically agree. But she doesn't add anything issues wise for McCain, atleast that's a talking point. Biden does atleast add foreign policy, although I don't think it matters much during the election cycle.

I do think that her effect on the ticket's chances are up in the air.

 

[APF]

I already stated I wasn't. If you have a point to make about Palin in terms of a historic pick, make it.

Uhh, it would be the first female VP?

 

[Gaborn]

Like who? The ones that were already being way too vocal at the convention (the so-called PUMAs)? I don't think getting them was anywhere near enough to make this call. If Obama was so worried about them, he would have just gone ahead and made Hillary the VP.

Just because Obama's not worried about them doesn't mean he shouldn't be.

 

[esbern]

how the fuck is she going to raise a kid with down syndrome while campaigning and possibly winning VP. thats a little, just a little fucked up.

 

[pxleyes]

Uhh, it would be the first female VP?

So would have Ferraro, what's your point? I thought VPs didn't sway elections.

 

[Tamanon]

I dunno, why would all these women voters suddenly move to McCain? Especially after all the talk from people about how much they'd see Sebelius as just an open pander and go against Obama, and that's with a Pres that actually is pro-women's issues.:lol

 

[DancingJesus]

What a completely offensive statement that should earn you a ban if GAF was as 'anti-Christian' as you think it is. Just imagine if you said:

God please keep out the Jews. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the blacks. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the homos. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the moo-slims. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the mexicans. they arnt yet welcome in politics

etc.

He's just saying keep religion talk out of politics. Chill.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I basically agree. But she doesn't add anything issues wise for McCain, atleast that's a talking point. Biden does atleast add foreign policy, although I don't think it matters much during the election cycle.

I do think that her effect on the ticket's chances are up in the air.

Biden also helps in PA. Another strategic benefit for which Palin brings zero counterpart.

 

[Ghost]

None of this matters to the angry Hillary supporters. They'll see McCain with a female, imagine McCain dying in office and then having a female president and vote for him.

There will be some like that sure, but I have to believe the vast majority actually care about the quality of the potential first woman president.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Just because Obama's not worried about them doesn't mean he shouldn't be.

Just becuase Obama is worried doesn't mean he should be.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Here's a question: a big hope is that this will get ex-Clinton supporters to vote for McCain, obviously.

But wouldn't they already have decided to do that? And it's really only the insane Hillaryis44 women who think that way.

Sorry, but I don't see a large number of women saying "wow, a female vice president? I'm voting McCain instead of Obama now!" if not just because she's anti-abortion. Obviously women who are already anti-abortion will vote for McCain, but I can't imagine pro-choice women deciding to vote for McCain because of a woman vice.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I'm late to the news, so I'm freaking out a little. This is such a shake up, I don't think any of us were expecting this. This could be a brilliant move by saying to both Republicans and Democrats that he is going to bring "change". Now, this may shake the base so much it may make them puke, she is younger than Obama. Either way, this is a crazy choice that is going to bring in a lot of women and Hillary supporters. The Clintons are laughing their asses off today while preparing her banners for 2012.

 

[Gaborn]

I dunno, why would all these women voters suddenly move to McCain? Especially after all the talk from people about how much they'd see Sebelius as just an open pander and go against Obama, and that's with a Pres that actually is pro-women's issues.:lol

Define "woman's issues"

Door2Dawn - Absolutely, I was just making the point that Obama's state of mind about PUMA matters a lot less than PUMA's state of mind.

 

[BobLoblaw]

I'm thinking the VP debate may just be a blood bath. Of course feminists will automatically look at it as if Biden would be "bullying" her. Boo hoo. Why don't we just have gender wars and get it over with? :lol

 

[Cheebs]

I conclude either this will be INSANELY helpful to McCain or it will blowup in his face. I can't see this being a "do no harm" pick like Biden that has no effect on the race poll wise.

It will either lead him to winning, or lead him to losing badly.

I can't see this working out at all in the do no harm mold. It was a hail marry, but it's going to land on either extremes, not the middle.

Reagan did win the women vote when Mondale picked Ferarararrorororo, but Mondale would never have beat Reagan no matter the pick so I don't think that is comparable.

On November 5th we will look back at this day as either the day McCain began to win this race, or the day McCain made a major failure that lead to Obama running away with this thing.

 

[speculawyer]

Fixed. Heard he was abusive.

I don't know whether that is true or not, but even if true it is an abuse of her power to push to fire the guy. The police department have their own systems of dealing with these things and if she uses her power to affect her sister's situation then she is abusing her power.

This is about Palin's behavior, not the Trooper.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Andrew Sullivan:





Pretty much what I was thinking.

They are all very good points from an independant's perspective. Obama and the team just need to talk them up over the next week.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

He's just saying keep religion talk out of politics. Chill.

speculawyer responds to everything I say in all the OP threads...I think his dream is to get me banned

 

[Tamanon]

Define "woman's issues"

Well equal pay for one.

 

[Yaweee]

how the fuck is she going to raise a kid with down syndrome while campaigning and possibly winning VP. thats a little, just a little fucked up.

Having a child with a disability shouldn't keep you from doing anything else with your life. She probably has some hired help.

 

[speculawyer]

He's just saying keep religion talk out of politics. Chill.

The is America . . . religion is politics.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Define "woman's issues"

Door2Dawn - Absolutely, I was just making the point that Obama's state of mind about PUMA matters a lot less than PUMA's state of mind.

Equal pay? The womens right to choose?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

They are all very good points from an independant's perspective. Obama and the team just need to talk them up over the next week.

And independents are the 13% who will decide the election.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I'm late to the news, so I'm freaking out a little. This is such a shake up, I don't think any of us were expecting this. This could be a brilliant move by saying to both Republicans and Democrats that he is going to bring "change". Now, this may shake the base so much it may make them puke, she is younger than Obama. Either way, this is a crazy choice that is going to bring in a lot of women and Hillary supporters. The Clintons are laughing their asses off today while preparing her banners for 2012.

:lol

 

[speculawyer]

speculawyer responds to everything I say in all the OP threads...I think his dream is to get me banned

If I respond to everything you say then you must say a lot of stupid things. :lol

 

[Shiggie]

The is America . . . religion is politics.

/.

 

[schuelma]

And independents are the 13% who will decide the election.

I really don't think Andrew Sullivan is the best barometer of an independant mind.

 

[Cheebs]

I think we'll be seeing hillary on the trail and in interviews far more than we would as of yesterday.

 

[Gaborn]

Well equal pay for one.

Equal pay is a misleading statistic. Many women are leaving the workforce for a time (weeks, months, a year or two) to care for children. Some men as well, but more women than men. Most child birth occurs relatively young (mid twenties to early thirties) and that's prime time for a young active go getter to be promoted and to receive higher pay. I think I don't think most businesses are actively discriminating against women, I think for the most part women are paid less than men because they left during a key time and it doesn't make sense to promote someone on paid leave.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

God I would rather take Obama for 8 years than Hillary for 4. If McCain wins he better carry it for 8 and not give Hilary a chance in 2012.

 

[Cheebs]

I think we'll be seeing hillary on the trail and in interviews far more than we would as of yesterday.

 

[Cheebs]

I think we'll be seeing hillary on the trail and in interviews far more than we would as of yesterday.

 

[gkryhewy]

I'm late to the news, so I'm freaking out a little. This is such a shake up, I don't think any of us were expecting this. This could be a brilliant move by saying to both Republicans and Democrats that he is going to bring "change". Now, this may shake the base so much it may make them puke, she is younger than Obama. Either way, this is a crazy choice that is going to bring in a lot of women and Hillary supporters. The Clintons are laughing their asses off today while preparing her banners for 2012.

Jesus christ, dude. Please hand in your intern card.

 

[DY_nasty]

Palin looks good...

Maybe too good.

 

[Branduil]

Define "woman's issues"

"Abortions for some, miniature American flags for everyone else."

 

[lexdysia]

Why does Biden change the score for Obama, yet Palin doesn't do the same for McCain?

The real answer: He doesn't; people rarely vote for VP, but they might if it's a historic pick, like it would be for Palin.

Biden isn't a historic pick, he is a practical pick to engage in tough diplomacy and provide foreign policy guidance for Obama.

Palin doesn't have that record on foreign policy or judgment in general. She's a politically-motivated appointment who agrees with Bush-Cheney, just as McCain does.

Obama is a vetted nominee for president who provides true policy changes.

 

[Gaborn]

Door 2 Dawn - Abortion is an issue that divides women just as it divides men. You can't say the liberal position is inherently the "woman's" position. It's A woman's position.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I think he's actually in it now :\

this is true

things got interesting

I hope it does not get as bad for Obama as the Primaries though

 

[Azrael]

I would have love to have seen McCain's pick if Obama went with Hillary as Veep. Something tells me it would have been different.

Definitely would have picked a white man if Obama chose a woman. In that event, McCain wouldn't have gained votes from women by picking one. OTOH, he would have gotten both bigots who won't vote for a black man and bigots who won't vote for a woman by picking a white male. McCain had a huge advantage in picking his VP second.

Obama/Clinton would have been the dream ticket, had Clinton respected that there are certain lines you don't cross in a primary in attacking your rivals and praising the nominee of the opposition party. It should have been Obama/Clinton, but it's not Obama's fault that it's not. It's Clinton's.

 

[Ghost]

I don't know whether that is true or not, but even if true it is an abuse of her power to push to fire the guy. The police department have their own systems of dealing with these things and if she uses her power to affect her sister's situation then she is abusing her power.

This is about Palin's behavior, not the Trooper.

"We don't need another vice-president who thinks the rules don't apply to them" blah blah, it's an easy sell.

 

[speculawyer]

yea your right, it is totally similar:lol

Yeah, it is totally different. It just leaps out as totally different:

God please keep out the Jews. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the blacks. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the homos. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the atheists. they arnt yet welcome in politics.

God please keep out the moo-slims. they arnt yet welcome in politics

God please keep out the mexicans. they arnt yet welcome in politics

by the way did you ever think it might be a joke???

Yeah that history of anti-athiesm posts you have and the lack of a smiley really makes one think it was obviously a joke.

 

[Tamanon]

I really don't think Andrew Sullivan is the best barometer of an independant mind.

I dunno, he's pretty conservative. He voted for Bush after all.:lol

 

[pxleyes]

So what is Palin's record on the war on terror? Did she fight the good fight against those rogue polar bears? Maybe those vampires during those 30 days of night?

 

[ToyMachine228]

I think we'll be seeing hillary on the trail and in interviews far more than we would as of yesterday.

Seriously, Hillary needs to be the attack dog against Palin, Biden can attack McCain, and Obama can set the stage for where he wants to take the country. That's a plan for victory in an election.