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[Thunder Monkey]

Hahaha!

Ami get's a lot of crap again.

You just piss off a lot of people don't ya man?

I agree with you on all points. I'm still more then ok with the ticket, but you better believe I'm not ecstatic about his choice. Biden has had his hands in too many "iffy" things for me to be completely ok with him. But I still want to see Barack elected, so that drowns out any of my larger issues with Biden.

And hey, at the very least we can expect to get more then a few funny sound bites out of the guy.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Absolutely not. It's simply disingenuous to pretend earlier in the thread you didn't understand what I was saying - in some lame attempt to act like it was somehow outrageous - and then latch onto someone who made an argument in your place.

If you call someone's posts out, you should always have a reason and be able to articulate it. It is intellectually dishonest to act nonplussed about a statement and then fail to respond with reasons why, and later on fist pump when someone isn't lazy and does your "job" for you.

Fine, I am lazy.

 

[Clevinger]

Remember the relatively new AP Washington Bureau Chief who was courted by the McCain campaign for a senior advisory role, and now writes articles recycling right-wing talking points against Obama and for McCain (the newest being the Joe Biden pick)?

If not, here's some stuff of his:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/fournier_to_rove_keep_up_the_fight.php
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080317/ap_ca/on_deadline_arrogance_2
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080823/ap_on_el_ge/veepstakes_analysis

Well, there's an email campaign going on against him you can join in on if you wish to:

http://action.firedoglake.com/page/speakout/fournier

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Now that I think about it, didn't we hear this way back when Obama first clinched? That the Clinton camp was refusing to open up their library records for vetting?

It was known that she wasn't going to be chosen a long time ago. They threw the gauntlet eons ago that they knew the Clintons wouldn't cross. Up the records on the Clinton library. They made that demand knowing damn well the Clintons wouldn't comply.

 

[Amir0x]

Hahaha!

Ami get's a lot of crap again.

You just piss off a lot of people don't ya man?

I agree with you on all points. I'm still more then ok with the ticket, but you better believe I'm not ecstatic about his choice. Biden has had his hands in too many "iffy" things for me to be completely ok with him. But I still want to see Barack elected, so that drowns out any of my larger issues with Biden.

And hey, at the very least we can expect to get more then a few funny sound bites out of the guy.

It's impossible not to anger people in political discussions when you go against the curve. I know this, I'm simply not afraid to go against the curve if it's my genuine belief it is wrong.

Just so we are clear here:

If you think Biden is a good choice, that's fine. Nobody is saying my opinion is more right than yours. I am simply providing my opinion and we can have a very nice back and forth to really debate the ins-and-outs of this choice.

I am a little surprised though that there were people who didn't beat around the bush and outright stated that they didn't want any negativity on their happy parade. Even for PoliGAF that surprised me a little :lol

 

[maximum360]

Absolutely not. It's simply disingenuous to pretend earlier in the thread you didn't understand what I was saying - in some lame attempt to act like it was somehow outrageous - and then latch onto someone who made an argument in your place.

If you call someone's posts out, you should always have a reason and be able to articulate it. It is intellectually dishonest to act nonplussed about a statement and then fail to respond with reasons why, and later on fist pump when someone isn't lazy and does your "job" for you.



It's not like he's a "retard." His IQ is stated to be slightly above average, actually.

They must have really lowered the bar. Bush is an idiot, period, and seems to have the attention span of a two year old.

 

[soul creator]

isn't obama himself a "washington insider"? the man's a state senator

it's not like he's the incumbent chairman of the colgate cavity patrol

reading this after the Biden root canal story made me laugh

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's impossible not to anger people in political discussions when you go against the curve. I know this, I'm simply not afraid to go against the curve if it's my genuine belief it is wrong.

Just so we are clear here:

If you think Biden is a good choice, that's fine. Nobody is saying my opinion is more right than yours. I am simply providing my opinion and we can have a very nice back and forth to really debate the ins-and-outs of this choice.

Exactly.:lol

I am a little surprised though that there were people who didn't beat around the bush and outright stated that they didn't want any negativity on their happy parade. Even for PoliGAF that surprised me a little :lol

:lol

Really?

Wow, guys. Be hyped all you want, but please never try to stifle dissenting opinions. It just leads down a trail of badness. Ask preHitler Germany.

 

[Amir0x]

They must have really lowered the bar. Bush is an idiot, period, and seems to have the attention span of a two year old.

Well don't let facts get in your way, I was only discussing what his I.Q. was

Really?

Oh absolutely. Like I said, i actually thought they were joking until someone repeated it and then demanded I took this position as some reaction of outrage at others being happy :lol

I was like 'oh...oh wow.'

 

[PhoenixDark]

Amir0x: name the top 3 choices you would have preferred.

 

[FitzOfRage]

Exactly.:lol



:lol

Really?

Wow, guys. Be hyped all you want, but please never try to stifle dissenting opinions. It just leads down a trail of badness. Ask preHitler Germany.

Is that really who we have to ask to get a sense of this situation...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Amir0x: name the top 3 choices you would have preferred.

Can I play too?

1. Kathleen Sebelius
2. Wesley Clark
3. Bill Richardson

I can survive with Biden, but I can't deny a certain degree of disappointment at the politically "safe" choice of Biden.

I'd have preferred the double "change" ticket of Obama/Sebelius, but if he was to go the politically safe route of someone to offset his perceived faults I'd have preferred the equally ballsy Clark, or Richardson.

Is that really who we have to ask to get a sense of this situation...

Come up with a better joke then!

Fuck!

 

[besada]

The idea that someone without extensive Washington experience would do a good job as VP just sort of baffles me. The job of VP, among other things, is the act as President of the U.S. Senate.

Why would someone who didn't know how the Senate really worked be a benefit to the position? What you want, at a practical level, in a VP is someone who knows the ins and outs of the Senate like the back of his hand, someone who can work both sides of the aisle, and someone willing to bend back arms until he gets what the President wants.

LBJ, for all his failings, was one of the most effective VPs in history. He was notorious for his ability to get the Senate to move in his direction.

There's not another candidate for VP out there that meets this fundamental criteria as well as Biden does, as far as I can tell. I like quite a few of the other potential candidates, but none of them had anything like Biden's level of experience of getting in the trenches and getting shit done. Half of them have no experience dealing with the Senate at all (Clark, Kaine, Sebelius), and the rest have less than Biden.

Like Ami, I think an ability to do the actual job is more important than an ability to get the job, but I haven't seen a decent argument yet that anyone is better prepared for the position than Biden. Most of the picks are people who should be running for President next time there's a chance, and historically the VP spot is a bad place from which to make that leap.

And I'm not worried about Biden's more conservative stances on some issues, because the VP-President relationship (barring Cheney-Bush) generally doesn't flow in that direction. The VP enacts the will of the POTUS, not the other way around. I think Obama is perfectly capable of standing up to Biden ideologically. It's not as if he's a weak-egoed wilting flower.

 

[Insertia]

I apparently should give myself credit, since the best you can muster up is some amusingly transparent attempt to act like the comment was "beneath" you, instead of a scathing indictment of your ridiculous act to quiet dissension.

Sorry, there's no act here little guy.

It really is 'quite dissension' with a bit a belittling sprinkled on top for personal entertainment.

So, again give yourself the cred you deserve. None.

edit- oh, and to keep it political in some context:
Bill Richardson on MSNBC now!

 

[The Librarian]

Richardson on Hardball now.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Richardson on Hardball now.

Badass motha.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I haven't seen a decent argument yet that anyone is better prepared for the position than Biden.

.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Can someone tell me about the DE senate seat? Will it be safe, or will it be picked up by the enemy?

 

[thefro]

Can someone tell me about the DE senate seat? Will it be safe, or will it be picked up by the enemy?

Biden's still running for the Senate seat and the Delaware Gov is a Dem.

Biden's son who's the Attorney General of Delaware might get appointed to the seat.

 

[Tamanon]

Can someone tell me about the DE senate seat? Will it be safe, or will it be picked up by the enemy?

I honestly can't even think of a way a Republican grabs that seat.

 

[soul creator]

I dunno guys, I think I'm gonna write in Barack America for my vote

 

[APF]

It's not like he's a "retard." His IQ is stated to be slightly above Kerry's, actually.

Fixed to reflect test scores.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Biden's still running for the Senate seat and the Delaware Gov is a Dem.

Biden's son who's the Attorney General of Delaware might get appointed to the seat.

I honestly can't even think of a way a Republican grabs that seat.

It's all good then. Plan Supermajority is still on track.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The idea that someone without extensive Washington experience would do a good job as VP just sort of baffles me. The job of VP, among other things, is the act as President of the U.S. Senate.

Why would someone who didn't know how the Senate really worked be a benefit to the position? What you want, at a practical level, in a VP is someone who knows the ins and outs of the Senate like the back of his hand, someone who can work both sides of the aisle, and someone willing to bend back arms until he gets what the President wants.

LBJ, for all his failings, was one of the most effective VPs in history. He was notorious for his ability to get the Senate to move in his direction.

There's not another candidate for VP out there that meets this fundamental criteria as well as Biden does, as far as I can tell. I like quite a few of the other potential candidates, but none of them had anything like Biden's level of experience of getting in the trenches and getting shit done. Half of them have no experience dealing with the Senate at all (Clark, Kaine, Sebelius), and the rest have less than Biden.

Like Ami, I think an ability to do the actual job is more important than an ability to get the job, but I haven't seen a decent argument yet that anyone is better prepared for the position than Biden. Most of the picks are people who should be running for President next time there's a chance, and historically the VP spot is a bad place from which to make that leap.

And I'm not worried about Biden's more conservative stances on some issues, because the VP-President relationship (barring Cheney-Bush) generally doesn't flow in that direction. The VP enacts the will of the POTUS, not the other way around. I think Obama is perfectly capable of standing up to Biden ideologically. It's not as if he's a weak-egoed wilting flower.

QFMFT

Biden is well respected on both sides of the aisle, he knows the job, etc. Sebelius would be a duck out of water

 

[Hitokage]

 

[maximum360]

I heard Matthews asked Andrea Mitchelle and Chris Silizza (sp???) if CNN and Fox News are shedding crocodile tears for Hillary just to play the "Republican script.". Did anyone catch this?

 

[Tamanon]

Plus, Biden kinda got TONS of recent street cred when the Georgian president REQUESTED him come take a look at things.

 

[kkaabboomm]

Biden's still running for the Senate seat and the Delaware Gov is a Dem.

Biden's son who's the Attorney General of Delaware might get appointed to the seat.

i thought he was being deployed to iraq, and the military didn't care he was AG and wouldn't care if he's a US senator, he's a JAG...

 

[TDG]

Sebelius would be a duck out of water

Absolutely. I honestly think (and I'm not trying to insult anyone's opinion here) that a lot of people were only asking for her because other GAFers posted a lot of pictures of her/really wanted her, and they just went with the GAF flow.

 

[Bulla564]

Yessss please!! I was starting to believe McCain could pull it off recently. I need peace of mind.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Absolutely. I honestly think (and I'm not trying to insult anyone's opinion here) that a lot of people were only asking for her because other GAFers posted a lot of pictures of her/really wanted her, and they just went with the GAF flow.

They probably felt a Sebelius pick would best throw bleach in Hillary's eye, as Raekwon would say

 

[Hitokage]

They probably felt a Sebelius pick would best throw bleach in Hillary's eye, as Raekwon would say

Nah, I knew when Obama mentioned wanting somebody who was independent and not just a "yes" person that Deus Ex Machina's hopes were about to be crushed.

 

[worldrunover]

The idea that someone without extensive Washington experience would do a good job as VP just sort of baffles me. The job of VP, among other things, is the act as President of the U.S. Senate.

Why would someone who didn't know how the Senate really worked be a benefit to the position? What you want, at a practical level, in a VP is someone who knows the ins and outs of the Senate like the back of his hand, someone who can work both sides of the aisle, and someone willing to bend back arms until he gets what the President wants.

LBJ, for all his failings, was one of the most effective VPs in history. He was notorious for his ability to get the Senate to move in his direction.

There's not another candidate for VP out there that meets this fundamental criteria as well as Biden does, as far as I can tell. I like quite a few of the other potential candidates, but none of them had anything like Biden's level of experience of getting in the trenches and getting shit done. Half of them have no experience dealing with the Senate at all (Clark, Kaine, Sebelius), and the rest have less than Biden.

Like Ami, I think an ability to do the actual job is more important than an ability to get the job, but I haven't seen a decent argument yet that anyone is better prepared for the position than Biden. Most of the picks are people who should be running for President next time there's a chance, and historically the VP spot is a bad place from which to make that leap.

And I'm not worried about Biden's more conservative stances on some issues, because the VP-President relationship (barring Cheney-Bush) generally doesn't flow in that direction. The VP enacts the will of the POTUS, not the other way around. I think Obama is perfectly capable of standing up to Biden ideologically. It's not as if he's a weak-egoed wilting flower.

THIS. I don't know if it was expected that Obama's entire cabinet (if he wins) would involve people with no knowledge of Washington and just had to wing it for a while. Having a "Washington Insider" does in no way damage the change message.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Nah, I knew when Obama mentioned wanting somebody who was independent and not just a "yes" person that Deus Ex Machina's hopes were about to be crushed.

As did I.

Didn't mean I couldn't dream. :'(

 

[The Librarian]

THIS. I don't know if it was expected that Obama's entire cabinet (if he wins) would involve people with no knowledge of Washington and just had to wing it for a while. Having a "Washington Insider" does in no way damage the change message.

Tell it to this guy who is on MSNBC right now.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Tell it to this guy who is on MSNBC right now.

As it's been said, Obama could have had the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ as his running mate, and the pundits would second guess, the GOP would be running attack ads and it would hurt Obama with the evangelical vote.

It's all part of the plan.

 

[laserbeam]

Politico is saying Colin Powell is at McCains ranch in Sedona being courted for VP

 

[Tamanon]

Politico is saying Colin Powell is at McCains ranch in Sedona being courted for VP

:lol That'll happen.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Politico is saying Colin Powell is at McCains ranch in Sedona being courted for VP

Colin isn't going to stand in Obama's way.

 

[worldrunover]

Politico is saying Colin Powell is at McCains ranch in Sedona being courted for VP

I don't think Powell would do it...

 

[Alcander]

Politico is saying Colin Powell is at McCains ranch in Sedona being courted for VP

Extremely unlikely that he would accept...

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Absolutely. I honestly think (and I'm not trying to insult anyone's opinion here) that a lot of people were only asking for her because other GAFers posted a lot of pictures of her/really wanted her, and they just went with the GAF flow.

This is really selling us short, man. Lots of PoliGAFfers have the power of independent thought :lol

The main reason why our girl Kate was always my personal #1 pick is that she was the perfect double-down on Change We Can Believe In, since she's not part of the Washington system, but there were plenty of other reasons as well. She'd have squashed all the silly "sexist" nonsense no matter how much PUMAPAC and HI44.org yowled. She has solid executive cred. She's a staunch liberal. She's on record as saying Iraq would be a stupid move.

Like I said this morning, I still feel she would have been the best choice for Obama, one final reason being that she makes a great Hildeblocker for 2016 when the man will hit his term limits. As an Indian, I'm not exactly enthused about Mr. Bud Bud Ding Ding £2.99, but at least he's no Lieberman.

Spoiler

ok, maybe the GILF thing was a SMALL part of it

 

[Tamanon]

Plus, Colin Powell is pro-choice, I don't think McCain would double down on no economic experience *AND* piss off evangelicals.

 

[worldrunover]

Sebelius would not have met either of Ami's famous criteria. For the first one, there's no way she's more ready or prepared to be president than Biden. No. Way. For the second one, she'd be a woman who's not Hillary, and a foreign policy novice in an election where the battles (so far) are being fought there.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://www.politico.com/playbook/

The officials say Sen. Barack OBAMA’s choice of Sen. Joe Biden finished off any remaining chance for youthful Minnesota Gov. Tim PAWLENTY to be on the GOP ticket. “Can you imagine what Biden would do to Pawlenty in the debate?” asked one top Republican. “It would just be sad.”

 

[GhaleonEB]

Plus, Colin Powell is pro-choice, I don't think McCain would double down on no economic experience *AND* piss off evangelicals.

And IIRC, Powell said he wasn't planning to endorse, much less join in running with, either candidate.

 

[Door2Dawn]

http://www.politico.com/playbook/

So Romney then.

 

[Tamanon]

And IIRC, Powell said he wasn't planning to endorse, much less join in running with, either candidate.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure the only reason the McCain camp even invited him over was just to try and grab SOME press.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Sebelius would not have met either of Ami's famous criteria. For the first one, there's no way she's more ready or prepared to be president than Biden. No. Way. For the second one, she'd be a woman who's not Hillary, and a foreign policy novice in an election where the battles (so far) are being fought there.

I love Ami, but Obama could run with a baby Seamonkey and win this election.

 

[laserbeam]

http://www.politico.com/playbook/

The officials say Sen. Barack OBAMA’s choice of Sen. Joe Biden finished off any remaining chance for youthful Minnesota Gov. Tim PAWLENTY to be on the GOP ticket. “Can you imagine what Biden would do to Pawlenty in the debate?” asked one top Republican. “It would just be sad.”

Yeah the Biden pick is certainly gonna limit the list of who will be looked at now. Should be interesting to see who they feel can go toe to toe with biden