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[reilo]

Exactly.



It's not that he's wealthy that matters, it's that he's so out of touch with even his own wealth. How can he run an entire country if he is so absent minded about his own finances and assets?

The excuse "well technically it's Cindy McCain's wealth" is ineffective because if he feels that he cannot penetrate financial discussion in his own home, that is even more damning.

When he said "it's Cindy McCain's wealth" the thing that sprang to mind was: "It's our tax money you will be fucking with jackass! How are you supposed to manage OUR finances if you cannot manage your own?!"

 

[mckmas8808]

Exactly.



It's not that he's wealthy that matters, it's that he's so out of touch with even his own wealth. How can he run an entire country if he is so absent minded about his own finances and assets?

The excuse "well technically it's Cindy McCain's wealth" is ineffective because if he feels that he cannot penetrate financial discussion in his own home, that is even more damning.

He doesn't even know what kind of car he has.

 

[worldrunover]

He doesn't even know what kind of car he has.

Model T?

 

[TDG]

It's happened before. PoliGAF has a legendary short-term memory. It doesn't matter how many times you agree with them, it's always the one time you disagree that counts.

No kidding.

 

[User 7575]

I believe it was the first democrat candidate debate in which Biden was the only participant to say as president he would put troops in Darfur. I was saying Biden-Obama since day one, so this is pretty good.

 

[Verano]

It's happened before. PoliGAF has a legendary short-term memory. It doesn't matter how many times you agree with them, it's always the one time you disagree that counts.

Well Ami if you didn't come off as cynical, PoliGAF wouldn't be treating you like Pat Buchanan.

 

[Amir0x]

Well Ami if you didn't come off as cynical, PoliGAF wouldn't be treating you like Pat Buchanan.

If you believe cynicism is the problem, again... welcome to the internet.

However I can promise you it is not cynicism that guides my thoughts here.

 

[APF]

Did it really take one sentence for you guys to switch from, "being elite is good I want the elite to lead me," to, "being elite is bad elites are out of touch with everyday people" smh

 

[worldrunover]

Did it really take one sentence for you guys to switch from, "being elite is good I want the elite to lead me," to, "being elite is bad elites are out of touch with everyday people" smh

Are you saying there's no different from being intellectually elite and socially elite?

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

the whole elitism thing is stupid. everybody in office is elite.

but since republicans are going to make it an issue... may as well point out that their guy is the richest, probably at least of of touch with the peoples

 

[Verano]

If you believe cynicism is the problem, again... welcome to the internet.

However I can promise you it is not cynicism that guides my thoughts here.

It's an assumption not a fact.

Ok since that's cleared that up, what drives your thoughts?
Help me understand your position better.

 

[Amir0x]

It's an assumption not a fact.

Ok since that's cleared that up, what drives your thoughts?
Help me understand your position better.

The only thing that ever guides my thoughts in terms of politics is what is going to be best for the country, so I know that is what will inadvertently effect me at some point. It's the sort of selfish desire to have my life be a little more comfortable.

Now this is a disconnected way of saying that these choices are serious and even the VP has some small yet measurable chance of impacting my life, if he were to say influence an Obama viewpoint negatively or to become president and become a bad one.

So. In short... what drives my thoughts? The fact that I don't really like Biden, because we disagree on a lot of what I feel is best and he has said a number of pretty insensitive things which allow me to question just how deep these feelings go. The ladder is a negligible issue if I agreed with his policies, and we do agree on a few of course. The ones we disagree on just happen to be a bit more important to me.

 

[mckmas8808]

Did it really take one sentence for you guys to switch from, "being elite is good I want the elite to lead me," to, "being elite is bad elites are out of touch with everyday people" smh

Really it wouldn't even be a problem had McCain and his people not try to make Obama look like an elist. When in truth McCain is the one closer to be an elist.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Did it really take one sentence for you guys to switch from, "being elite is good I want the elite to lead me," to, "being elite is bad elites are out of touch with everyday people" smh

Elite education != Privilidged Elite.

The latter is problematic, and what McCains people tries to twist Obama's education into... by framing it as the word Elite, where as the reality is the kind of 'elite' that is problematic is much more embodied by McCain than Obama or nearly anybody else in washington.

 

[APF]

the whole elitism thing is stupid. everybody in office is elite.

but since republicans are going to make it an issue... may as well point out that their guy is the richest, probably at least of of touch with the peoples

I think there's literally nothing that's a valid argument in any of this however, in terms of how they will lead or what their policies are. You can have good policies while having no clue what a Walmart is, and bad policies while living on unemployment. So the only point is to make frivolous and distracting political jabs, hoping the sophistry sticks long enough to sew doubt in some mythical undecided voter's mind--which hey I can't really argue with, but I find the immediate flip flopping nauseating.


Edit: So by talking about arugula folks were attacking Obama's education? By latching on to Obama's "bitter" comments, folks were attacking Obama's education?

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

A little off-topic, but I can't help but notice (after watching HBO's Big Love DVDs) that actor Bruce Dern (of old John Wayne fame) looks exactly like McCain.

 

[AniHawk]

So by talking about arugula folks were attacking Obama's education?

Didn't they immediately call him a professor right after that? Arugula-eating, pointy-headed professor or something.

 

[Mandark]

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/equivocation.html

 

[APF]

Didn't they immediately call him a professor right after that? Arugula-eating, pointy-headed professor or something.

A McCain spokesman just this week said something about Obama being "pointy-headed," in response to Obama's attacks against McCain's houses.


Edit: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/redherring.html

 

[Verano]

The only thing that ever guides my thoughts in terms of politics is what is going to be best for the country, so I know that is what will inadvertently effect me at some point. It's the sort of selfish desire to have my life be a little more comfortable.

Now this is a disconnected way of saying that these choices are serious and even the VP has some small yet measurable chance of impacting my life, if he were to say influence an Obama viewpoint negatively or to become president and become a bad one.

So. In short... what drives my thoughts? The fact that I don't really like Biden, because we disagree on a lot of what I feel is best and he has said a number of pretty insensitive things which allow me to question just how deep these feelings go. The ladder is a negligible issue if I agreed with his policies, and we do agree on a few of course. The ones we disagree on just happen to be a bit more important to me.

So everything has to have a causal effect on you personally right? Something that you could benefit in the long run?

Answering the bold:
Yeah, i just saw the vid where he would support McCain instead of Obama. Im not sure about other issues you disagree with since I haven't followed Biden closely as you do regarding his policies, but which important issues that you disagree that affect you the most?

 

[AniHawk]

A McCain spokesman just this week said something about Obama being "pointy-headed," in response to Obama's attacks against McCain's houses.

Yeah, found it.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/mccain_camp_responds_on_houses.php

Also, Rogers made sure to play the anti-intellectual card: "In terms of who's an elitist, I think people have made a judgment that John McCain is not an arugula-eating, pointy headed professor-type based on his life story."

There was probably an arugula-eating story that I missed during the primaries or in the last few months, I guess.

 

[Insertia]

:lol

Now this position has moved from being sort of pathetic to hilarious and clearly an attempt at parody.

As if the reason for my disagreement is for some sort of discordance in a GAF forum, rather than logical and educated disappointment about a choice that can impact the country. As if, even worse, these negative thoughts should be restrained or censored in favor of blatant, unabashed dick sucking merely because the "atmosphere" may be impacted!

Sorry, that's not how it works in PoliGAF, that's now how it works on GAF, and it's not how it works in any thread or forum or place of discussion. Welcome to the real world

...

If only you didn't have that fancy red stroke around your name

 

[APF]

Yeah, found it.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/mccain_camp_responds_on_houses.php



There was probably an arugula-eating story that I missed during the primaries or in the last few months, I guess.

<<
“You can come and help me load hogs in the morning,” he said.

“You can tell that I’m dressed for it,” replied Mr. Obama, casually dressed in slacks and a pressed shirt.

Again, the crowd applauded and laughed. One line that landed a little flat, though, was when Mr. Obama sympathetically noted that farmers have not seen an increase in prices for their crops, despite a rise in prices at the supermarket.

“Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?” the senator said. “I mean, they’re charging a lot of money for this stuff.”

The state of Iowa, for all of its vast food production, does not have a Whole Foods, a leading natural and organic foods market. The closest? Omaha, Minneapolis or Kansas City.

Mr. Obama, perhaps sensing a lack of reaction from the crowd, moved along to the next topic. After all, he never claimed to be a farming expert.

>>

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/obamas-down-on-the-farm/

 

[TDG]

I think there's literally nothing that's a valid argument in any of this however, in terms of how they will lead or what their policies are. You can have good policies while having no clue what a Walmart is, and bad policies while living on unemployment. So the only point is to make frivolous and distracting political jabs, hoping the sophistry sticks long enough to sew doubt in some mythical undecided voter's mind--which hey I can't really argue with, but I find the immediate flip flopping nauseating.

I think it's fair to say that when McCain claims to understand what everyday americans are going through economically, he really probably doesn't, considering how much money he has and how many houses he owns. That doesn't strike me as a particularly unfair charge: John McCain is out of touch with the economic troubles of mainstream americans.

As for the flip flopping, what do you expect? People want x to win, so attacks against x are unfair in their minds, and attacks by x are great.

 

[AniHawk]

<<
“You can come and help me load hogs in the morning,” he said.

“You can tell that I’m dressed for it,” replied Mr. Obama, casually dressed in slacks and a pressed shirt.

Again, the crowd applauded and laughed. One line that landed a little flat, though, was when Mr. Obama sympathetically noted that farmers have not seen an increase in prices for their crops, despite a rise in prices at the supermarket.

“Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?” the senator said. “I mean, they’re charging a lot of money for this stuff.”

The state of Iowa, for all of its vast food production, does not have a Whole Foods, a leading natural and organic foods market. The closest? Omaha, Minneapolis or Kansas City.

Mr. Obama, perhaps sensing a lack of reaction from the crowd, moved along to the next topic. After all, he never claimed to be a farming expert.

>>

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/obamas-down-on-the-farm/

Wow. That was a year ago? No wonder why I didn't hear about it.

 

[APF]

Wow. That was a year ago? No wonder why I didn't hear about it.

Yeah, I mean politics didn't even exist back then so I don't know what he was even doing talking to those guys in the first place.

TDG: I didn't say it was unfair, just meaningless and, given the context, hypocritical.

 

[Amir0x]

...

If only you didn't have that fancy red stroke around your name

Achievement Unlocked: Looking like a nancy and avoiding the argument.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Anyone donating to get the Obama/Biden car magnet?

 

[reilo]

Achievement Unlocked: Looking like a nancy and avoiding the argument.

You're a poo-poo head!

 

[TDG]

TDG: I didn't say it was unfair, just meaningless and, given the context, hypocritical.

Well yeah, it's hypocritical and fairly meaningless (just because McCain hasn't been there, done that, when it comes to economic troubles doesn't mean he won't be able to help the economy), but that's just politics, sadly. A fair, rational campaign about the issues is just out of the question at this point, unfortunately.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Achievement Unlocked: Looking like a nancy and avoiding the argument.

people with glass houses....

but which important issues that you disagree that affect you the most?

 

[Karma Kramer]

Does anyone have a link to that video with that guy that explains Obama's tax plans?

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Well yeah, it's hypocritical and fairly meaningless (just because McCain hasn't been there, done that, when it comes to economic troubles doesn't mean he won't be able to help the economy), but that's just politics, sadly. A fair, rational campaign about the issues is just out of the question at this point, unfortunately.

You're only ever going to be able to win about 10% of the country on issues anyway... if that at all.

 

[Amir0x]

My house is made out of the unbreakable diamond-like strength of a POW defense, not glass.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

This event today really solidified my feelings that Obama/Biden should be the winning ticket come November. I just don't see how McCain can compete with the message Obama and Biden sent today.

I was at work all day, do you happen to have a link to a video of the event?

 

[Amir0x]

I was at work all day, do you happen to have a link to a video of the event?

Part I
Part II

 

[thekad]

So how has the media reacted?

 

[DopeyFish]

I was at work all day, do you happen to have a link to a video of the event?

http://thisweekwithbarackobama.blogspot.com/2008/08/barack-obama-and-joe-biden-speeches.html

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Part I
Part II

http://thisweekwithbarackobama.blogspot.com/2008/08/barack-obama-and-joe-biden-speeches.html

Thank you both very much.

EDIT: Watching it, now. Obama's biography of Biden is very touching.

 

[Lemonz]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/23/1285720.aspx

On the Democratic side, it was a collective "phew." As the days got nearer for the pick, it was hard to find a Democrat -- even savvy Clintonites -- who weren't hoping it would be Biden. Only the most strident Hillary supporters appear to be upset this morning. On the GOP side, the sound you heard was disappointed silence. Of everyone on the short list, the candidate many Republicans least wanted to see Obama pick was Biden. Sure, they've already trotted out their talking points. And the McCain camp even produced a rapid-response TV ad highlighting some unkind words Biden said about Obama during the primaries. (We assume this now means McCain won’t be picking Romney, right? And doesn't the McCain ad actually send the message to swing voters that Obama's willing to surround himself with critics?) But there are too many intellectual conservatives (see David Brooks) who believe Biden's the most qualified guy Obama could have realistically picked.

 

[Mandark]

It is hereby decreed that any discussion of "elitism" in political leaders be prefaced by a clarification of how the word is being used.

 

[Insertia]

Achievement Unlocked: Looking like a nancy and avoiding the argument.

I could, and it would be fun, just not worth my time responding.

Don't give yourself any credit. You don't deserve it.

 

[The Librarian]

You're a poo-poo head!

Uh-oh.

Spoiler

At least you didn't say pee-pee head.

 

[Tim-E]

Uh-oh.

Spoiler

At least you didn't say pee-pee head.

Poo-poo head is way worse. Unless, by pee-pee you mean penis head and not urine head.

 

[Amir0x]

I could, and it would be fun, just not worth my time responding.

Don't give yourself any credit. You don't deserve it.

I apparently should give myself credit, since the best you can muster up is some amusingly transparent attempt to act like the comment was "beneath" you, instead of a scathing indictment of your ridiculous act to quiet dissension.

 

[The Librarian]

Poo-poo head is way worse. Unless, by pee-pee you mean penis head and not urine head.

I don't know man, pee-pee is a lot harder to clean up if you make a mess of it (unless we are talking diarrhea, but then he didn't say diarrhea head), and therefore is worse.

The hell are we talking about? :lol

Anyway, so we are not going to see Biden speak again until the convention?

 

[Hootie]

This guy on MSNBC is such a tool.

 

[Tim-E]

I don't know man, pee-pee is a lot harder to clean up if you make a mess of it (unless we are talking diarrhea, but then he didn't say diarrhea head), and therefore is worse.

The hell are we talking about? :lol

Anyway, so we are not going to see Biden speak again until the convention?

:lol

I don't know. Does Obama have anything scheduled over the next few days before Thursday?

 

[Tamanon]

Obama has several campaign stops on the way to Denver before Thursday, looks like Biden will be doing different campaign stops in the buildup.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

"Ladies and gentlemen, your kitchen table is like mine..."

That whole bit was excellent, excellent writing. That's imagery that Americans will relate to.