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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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T

Tamanon

Banned
The Lamonster said:
I read that Obama doesn't give his kids Christmas presents. Is this true?
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No, they don't give their kids birthday presents because they pay for slumber parties. The kids still get Christmas presents:p
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Mandark said:
1) "more out of party loyalty than hypocritical pandering"? I don't see the difference between the two.

2) McCain always voted to support Bush's version of the war in the Senate. Always. If Bush and Rumsfeld were screwing up an occupation and getting people killed for it, that wasn't enough to change McCain's unconditional backing of them when it was time to be counted.

3) The surge isn't the main force behind the current dip in violence in Iraq. Do not make me explain this to you.

3a) Last time I remember you talking about Iraq, it was praising Hillary for "not giving the base red meat" and saying you felt better about "her people" handling the situation, while not giving any details about strategy or even which of her people you meant.

I get a creeping feeling that you have no idea what you're talking about vis Iraq, and as a result you tend to hand out brownie points for seriousness to people who seem to buck their party on the subject.
Click to expand...

I never said the surge was the main force behind lower violence; I doubt you're denying it's impact.

With respect to Hillary you're right, at the time I supported her positions mainly because (at the time) they didn't include any "let's gtfo of there" rhetoric. I don't think we'll be out of Iraq in 16 months, nor do I think it's a good idea. That being said at least Obama has said the 16 month timeline is not set in stone and will take the situation on the ground into account.

Voting for Bush's war was the most logical choice for McCain at the time. He would have had very little clout or ability to change things if he was being a totally destabilizing force in the senate. I'm not saying he hasn't been trying to have things both ways to a certain extent but why do people act like McCain changing his position on Iraq is a horrible thing
 
M

maynerd

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
With respect to Hillary you're right, at the time I supported her positions mainly because (at the time) they didn't include any "let's gtfo of there" rhetoric.
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She's been saying let's get out of Iraq as quick as possible for some time now.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
OK, so McCain camp attacks the Obama camp for having a transition team today, and then McCain says in an interview tonight that he himself has a transition team he's using!

Dude really doesn't understand the spokesman idea.

Lamonster: Here's where that whole "presents" thing comes from.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20214569,00.html

PEOPLE: Someone told me today that you don't do birthday presents.
Michelle: No, because we spend hundreds of dollars on a birthday party and movie tickets and pizza and popcorn ...
Barack: That sleepover is enough. We want to teach some limits to them. And their friends bring over presents.
Michelle: They get so much stuff that it just becomes numbing. Malia believes there is still a Santa Claus even though she's a little wary because some of her friends are non-believers. But Malia says, "Ma, I know there is a Santa because there's no way you'd buy me all that stuff." [Laughing]

So what does a slumber party at the Obama house look like?
Barack: They're pretty noisy.
Michelle: The older they get, they just talk a lot. But they're at the age where they're pretty self-sufficient. [For Malia's birthday] we're going to go swimming, see Wall-E, make pizzas, have sundaes.
Barack: I usually go for the swim but this time I want to go to the movie just because Wall-E has gotten great reviews. I find actually that children's movies are the best movies these days. But I'll probably, after that, peel off until the cake.
Michelle: [Laughs] "Peel off."
Click to expand...
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
1) I am SO denying its impact. Oh yeah.

2) Explain why the US shouldn't leave Iraq, plz. Please reference specifics, rather than blah blah destabilize blah blah.

3) McCain voted for the war and repeatedly voted to fund the war without ever attaching a single condition to his vote. Unwavering loyalty doesn't get you clout.

4) It's not that McCain's changed his position. It's that he's trying to take credit for opposition that he never really provided.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'm not saying he hasn't been trying to have things both ways to a certain extent but why do people act like McCain changing his position on Iraq is a horrible thing
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It's because the repugs would scream bloody f'n murder if Obama had changed his position. Hell, they're calling him a flip flop even when he hasn't changed it while McCain actually IS flip flopping on numerous issues daily and nothing is mentioned in the MSM about it.
 
B

Blablurn

Member
obamafest-9856137-mfbh,templateId=renderScaled,property=Bild,height=225.jpg
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Re: McCain position on Iraq -
You both concentrate on minor details instead of the big picture here; he supported one of the biggest blunders in American history and he still does.
Anyone who still holds the position that invading Iraq was a good idea is automatically disqualified for a leadership position in my book.
 
Z

Zonar

Member
Chichikov said:
Re: McCain position on Iraq -
You both concentration on minor details instead of the big picture here; he supported one of the biggest blunders in American history and he still does.
Anyone who still holds the position that invading Iraq was a good idea is automatically disqualified for a leadership position in my book.
Click to expand...
this
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Chichikov said:
Re: McCain position on Iraq -
You both concentration on minor details instead of the big picture here; he supported one of the biggest blunders in American history and he still does.
Anyone who still holds the position that invading Iraq was a good idea is automatically disqualified for a leadership position in my book.
Click to expand...
This is kind of obvious though.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
maynerd said:
She's been saying let's get out of Iraq as quick as possible for some time now.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I soured on her was her change on Iraq, which was a dumb attempt to steal the activist/left part of the primary voting block from...the guy who never supported the war. It didn't work and here we are today

btw when does teh speech start? do i have time to take a shower?
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Looking at all of this and his popularity across the world, the entire world is going to hate us if Obama isn't elected. It truly does seem that way.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
it's a smart move to completely gloss over Iraq right now -

This is the moment when we must renew our resolve to rout the terrorists who threaten our security in Afghanistan, and the traffickers who sell drugs on your streets.
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now whether more countries will look past the morass in Iraq and throw more resources into Afghanistan remains to be seen.

edit: also love his ode to de-nuclearization, although i'm really starting to question where he stands vis-a-vis free-trade and unregulated markets.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Tamanon said:
Yup, France tomorrow afternoon, London afterward.
Click to expand...

Cool. I'm looking forward to see how the UK media react to his visit. Carla Bruni set the standard high for state visits :lol
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
scorcho said:
edit: also love his ode to de-nuclearization, although i'm really starting to question where he stands vis-a-vis free-trade and unregulated markets.
Click to expand...

Free trade is good but fair trade is much more important.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Mandark said:
1) I am SO denying its impact. Oh yeah.

2) Explain why the US shouldn't leave Iraq, plz. Please reference specifics, rather than blah blah destabilize blah blah.

3) McCain voted for the war and repeatedly voted to fund the war without ever attaching a single condition to his vote. Unwavering loyalty doesn't get you clout.

4) It's not that McCain's changed his position. It's that he's trying to take credit for opposition that he never really provided.
Click to expand...

2) blah blah blah destabilization should suffice. I agree with a timeline, but please explain to me (with blah blah blah or specifics) how leaving a country with such a weak governance and lack of any ability to protect/police itself is a good idea.

I've produced more than enough links showing McCain attempting to change Bush's Iraq policy. How is that not evidence of opposition. As I said, voting against the war (not the initial vote that started the conflict) wouldn't achieve anything, just as voting against funding the war achieves nothing in the long term.
 
Y

Yaweee

Member
tanod said:
Free trade is good but fair trade is much more important.
Click to expand...

'Fair trade' is socialism, as it sets arbitrary benchmarks for how much people 'should' get paid well above what they would be willing to work for. By arbitrarily inflating wages like that, you deny that work to people willing to do it for less.

Markets opened too, and the spread of information and technology reduced barriers to opportunity and prosperity.
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Though I'm still probably going to to vote for Barr, you can't deny that Obama understands the basic need for free markets.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
it's a smart move to completely gloss over Iraq right now -

now whether more countries will look past the morass in Iraq and throw more resources into Afghanistan remains to be seen.

edit: also love his ode to de-nuclearization, although i'm really starting to question where he stands vis-a-vis free-trade and unregulated markets.
Click to expand...

Obama interview with the Wall Street Journal. Over a month old now, but pretty good.

I think Obama's position on free trade is roughly the same as the shifting consensus among center-left economists. People like Paul Krugman and Brad DeLong who were very pro-NAFTA back in the day are now looking at the empirical data and saying things haven't worked out like they thought.

Dani Rodrik's blog is a good place for discussion of stuff like that, and developmental economics.
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
Yaweee said:
'Fair trade' is socialism, as it sets arbitrary benchmarks for how much people 'should' get paid well above what they would be willing to work for. By arbitrarily inflating wages like that, you deny that work to people willing to do it for less.
Click to expand...

Fair trade =/ Equal trade
 
B

besada

Banned
It will be nice having a President that doesn't sound like a fucking idiot. Even if he were every bit as venal and obnoxious, he'd still sound better.
 
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