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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Kildace

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
It is disingenuous. However, like bitter-gate, I think what's unfortunate here is not that he said it, but because he can't really elaborate on that point. It could have been phrased better, but I agree with him. It would be great if he could articulate it, but unfortunately it's too controversial, so all he can do is walk away whistling hoping that people forget about it.

Oh I agree, I also agree with his point. What he should have said however was that he was referencing all the viral e-mails and the state RNC delegations. Not McCain or his campaign.

I thought this too, but now that I think about it more, he could've possibly been referring to the AGE of past presidents.

Not with the "funny name" comment.

I'm actually quite disappointed with the campaign's answer. I think it does betray some arrogance that they cannot concede a point and spin it any other way than the way they did.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
siamesedreamer said:
Link

Absolutely pathetic...clearly he was referring to race. He was race baiting because McCain won't.
i dunno. i may be alone here, but i think you're the last person on this forum who should opine on race or race baiting.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Dax01 said:
Will you go to Pakistan?

Pakistan is a sovereign nation, you see.
148.gif
 

Cheebs

Member
Guys you realize that blue screen for McCain is not at a McCain event? McCain surrounds himself by people at his own events now. The Urban group thing set this up, Obama will be speaking in front of that same blue stage on saturday.
 

ShOcKwAvE

Member
Cheebs said:
Uh what? JFK is on our money and he was younger than Obama. (As was Teddy Roosevelt, Bill Clinton....etc)

Uh what? The bills people normally think of when talking about money are $1, $5, $10 and $20. That's Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton and Jackson. They're all considered "older" than Obama, even if their ages were slightly similar. It's about the perception of old presidents on money.
 

gcubed

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Yeah, that was terrifying. I think of it as a preview of where a John McCain presidency would take us.

Also, have you heard? John McCain is proud of that commercial.

i would be too, the production values are clearly much better then the "Both Ways Barack" commercial... which looked like a 5th grader made it
 

maynerd

Banned
gcubed said:
i would be too, the production values are clearly much better then the "Both Ways Barack" commercial... which looked like a 5th grader made it

I don't think a 5th grader knows how to use betamax.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
mckmas8808 said:
WTF!? So now being in shape is a negative thing for Obama?


Um, it's a tongue in cheek article. Almost satirical. The sheer number of amusing foodstuffs mentioned should be a giveaway.
 
Wal-Mart Warns of Democratic Win

From front page headline in The Wall Street Journal this morning:
Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is mobilizing its store managers and department supervisors around the country to warn that if Democrats win power in November, they'll likely change federal law to make it easier for workers to unionize companies -- including Wal-Mart.

In recent weeks, thousands of Wal-Mart store managers and department heads have been summoned to mandatory meetings at which the retailer stresses the downside for workers if stores were to be unionized.

According to about a dozen Wal-Mart employees who attended such meetings in seven states, Wal-Mart executives claim that employees at unionized stores would have to pay hefty union dues while getting nothing in return, and may have to go on strike without compensation. Also, unionization could mean fewer jobs as labor costs rise.

The actions by Wal-Mart -- the nation's largest private employer -- reflect a growing concern among big business that a reinvigorated labor movement could reverse years of declining union membership. That could lead to higher payroll and health costs for companies already being hurt by rising fuel and commodities costs and the tough economic climate.

The Wal-Mart human-resources managers who run the meetings don't specifically tell attendees how to vote in November's election, but make it clear that voting for Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama would be tantamount to inviting unions in, according to Wal-Mart employees who attended gatherings in Maryland, Missouri and other states.

"The meeting leader said, 'I am not telling you how to vote, but if the Democrats win, this bill will pass and you won't have a vote on whether you want a union,'" said a Wal-Mart customer-service supervisor from Missouri. "I am not a stupid person. They were telling me how to vote," she said.
Link to entire article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121755649066303381.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news (subscription)
 

JayDubya

Banned
Seems like a fair concern. If Wal-Mart doesn't want to work with unions, why should it have to. That seems to be Mandark's perpetual fall-back point, that these companies elected to contract with union labor in the first place.

He's kind of right; if you're dumb enough to sign away authority to reward merit and lots of other authority to some extra-administrative body like a union, you pretty much deserve them.

Legislation that would force private entities like Wal-Mart to contract with labor unions are simply unconscionable. But I'm sure I'll see some jack-ass defending them, just the same.
 
Now this is rich. See an article from Rick Davis:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/

The anatomy of a smear campaign

By Richard H. Davis | March 21, 2004

Every presidential campaign has its share of hard-ball political tactics, but nothing is more discomforting than a smear campaign. The deeply personal, usually anonymous allegations that make up a smear campaign are aimed at a candidate's most precious asset: his reputation. The reason this blackest of the dark arts is likely to continue is simple: It often works.

The premise of any smear campaign rests on a central truth of politics: Most of us will vote for a candidate we like and respect, even if we don't agree with him on every issue. But if you can cripple a voter's basic trust in a candidate, you can probably turn his vote. The idea is to find some piece of personal information that is tawdry enough to raise doubts, repelling a candidate's natural supporters.

All campaigns do extensive research into their opponent's voting record and personal life. This so-called "oppo research" involves searching databases, combing through press clips, and asking questions of people who know (and preferably dislike) your opponent. It's not hard to turn up something a candidate would rather not see on the front page of The Boston Globe.

It's not necessary, however, for a smear to be true to be effective. The most effective smears are based on a kernel of truth and applied in a way that exploits a candidate's political weakness.

Having run Senator John McCain's campaign for president, I can recount a textbook example of a smear made against McCain in South Carolina during the 2000 presidential primary. We had just swept into the state from New Hampshire, where we had racked up a shocking, 19-point win over the heavily favored George W. Bush. What followed was a primary campaign that would make history for its negativity.

In South Carolina, Bush Republicans were facing an opponent who was popular for his straight talk and Vietnam war record. They knew that if McCain won in South Carolina, he would likely win the nomination. With few substantive differences between Bush and McCain, the campaign was bound to turn personal. The situation was ripe for a smear.

It didn't take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa's orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign.

Some aspects of this smear were hardly so subtle. Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand sent an e-mail to "fellow South Carolinians" stating that McCain had "chosen to sire children without marriage." It didn't take long for mainstream media to carry the charge. CNN interviewed Hand and put him on the spot: "Professor, you say that this man had children out of wedlock. He did not have children out of wedlock." Hand replied, "Wait a minute, that's a universal negative. Can you prove that there aren't any?"

Campaigns have various ways of dealing with smears. They can refute the lies, or they can ignore them and run the risk of the smear spreading. But "if you're responding, you're losing." Rebutting tawdry attacks focuses public attention on them, and prevents the campaign from talking issues.

We chose to address the attacks by trying to get the media to focus on the dishonesty of the allegations and to find out who was making them. We also pledged to raise the level of debate by refusing to run any further negative ads -- a promise we kept, though it probably cost us the race. We never did find out who perpetrated these smears, but they worked: We lost South Carolina by a wide margin.

The only way to stop the expected mud-slinging in 2004 is for both President Bush and Senator Kerry to publicly order their supporters not to go there. But if they do, their behavior would be the exception, not the rule.

Richard H. Davis is president of the Reform Institute and a partner in Davis Manafort, a political consulting firm. He was a fellow at Harvard's Institute of Politics in 2002. He was campaign manager for John McCain in 2000 and has worked in every presidential campaign since 1980.
Every presidential campaign has its share of hard-ball political tactics, but nothing is more discomforting than a smear campaign. The deeply personal, usually anonymous allegations that make up a smear campaign are aimed at a candidate's most precious asset: his reputation. The reason this blackest of the dark arts is likely to continue is simple: It often works.

The premise of any smear campaign rests on a central truth of politics: Most of us will vote for a candidate we like and respect, even if we don't agree with him on every issue. But if you can cripple a voter's basic trust in a candidate, you can probably turn his vote. The idea is to find some piece of personal information that is tawdry enough to raise doubts, repelling a candidate's natural supporters.

All campaigns do extensive research into their opponent's voting record and personal life. This so-called "oppo research" involves searching databases, combing through press clips, and asking questions of people who know (and preferably dislike) your opponent. It's not hard to turn up something a candidate would rather not see on the front page of The Boston Globe.

It's not necessary, however, for a smear to be true to be effective. The most effective smears are based on a kernel of truth and applied in a way that exploits a candidate's political weakness.

Having run Senator John McCain's campaign for president, I can recount a textbook example of a smear made against McCain in South Carolina during the 2000 presidential primary. We had just swept into the state from New Hampshire, where we had racked up a shocking, 19-point win over the heavily favored George W. Bush. What followed was a primary campaign that would make history for its negativity.

In South Carolina, Bush Republicans were facing an opponent who was popular for his straight talk and Vietnam war record. They knew that if McCain won in South Carolina, he would likely win the nomination. With few substantive differences between Bush and McCain, the campaign was bound to turn personal. The situation was ripe for a smear.

It didn't take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa's orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign.

Some aspects of this smear were hardly so subtle. Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand sent an e-mail to "fellow South Carolinians" stating that McCain had "chosen to sire children without marriage." It didn't take long for mainstream media to carry the charge. CNN interviewed Hand and put him on the spot: "Professor, you say that this man had children out of wedlock. He did not have children out of wedlock." Hand replied, "Wait a minute, that's a universal negative. Can you prove that there aren't any?"

Campaigns have various ways of dealing with smears. They can refute the lies, or they can ignore them and run the risk of the smear spreading. But "if you're responding, you're losing." Rebutting tawdry attacks focuses public attention on them, and prevents the campaign from talking issues.

We chose to address the attacks by trying to get the media to focus on the dishonesty of the allegations and to find out who was making them. We also pledged to raise the level of debate by refusing to run any further negative ads -- a promise we kept, though it probably cost us the race. We never did find out who perpetrated these smears, but they worked: We lost South Carolina by a wide margin.

The only way to stop the expected mud-slinging in 2004 is for both President Bush and Senator Kerry to publicly order their supporters not to go there. But if they do, their behavior would be the exception, not the rule.

Richard H. Davis is president of the Reform Institute and a partner in Davis Manafort, a political consulting firm. He was a fellow at Harvard's Institute of Politics in 2002. He was campaign manager for John McCain in 2000 and has worked in every presidential campaign since 1980.

And this is from The Reform Institute's "about us" page:

http://www.reforminstitute.org/about/about.aspx

Our Unique, Independent Voice

The health of a free society can be measured by the willingness of ordinary people to take an active role in the nation’s democratic institutions and the extent by which elected officials conduct the government’s business with transparency and accountability. What began as a campaign finance reform organization has grown into a multi-issue think tank that champions the national interest by formulating and advocating meaningful reform in vital areas of public policy, including campaign finance and election reform, energy and climate stewardship, homeland security, immigration reform and economic policy.

The Institute is a nonprofit, nonpartisan, 501(c)(3) educational organization dedicated to advancing a solutions-based reform agenda. The Institute recognizes that resolving the most intractable problems confronting our society will require fundamental reform to the core of our democratic system. Such an agenda includes promoting open and fair elections, reducing the influence of special interests in our politics, and encouraging a political discourse that rises above blatant partisanship.

The Reform Institute was founded in 2001 in direct response to the millions of Americans who, during the 2000 presidential campaign, expressed profound disillusionment with corrupt fundraising activities and the political “closed shop.” The initial bipartisan Honorary Chairs of the Advisory Committee were Senator John McCain (R-AZ) and former Senator Bob Kerry (D-NE). After Senator McCain resigned his position in 2005, former Congressman and former Fortune 500 CEO Amo Houghton of New York served as President.

The Institute represents a unique, independent voice in the constellation of nonprofit organizations. As a nonpartisan public policy group, the Institute conducts objective research and analysis on critical issues and promotes a reform agenda that restores Americans’ faith in government and the political process. The Institute brings together a broad base of reformers from all ideological spectrums, including business leaders, policy experts, as well as retired and current elected officials and, most importantly, average Americans who are tired of politics as usual.

Building on a Strong Foundation

The Institute, working to reestablish the essential connection between citizens and their government, strives to renew the American tradition of meaningful, active citizen participation in the nation’s civic life, and to restore integrity and effectiveness to our government and the electoral process.

The Institute began its work toward reform during the 2001-2002 Congressional debate on a historic effort to end the corrupting scourge of “soft money” – vast, unregulated contributions from corporations and labor unions. The Institute also sought to end soft money funding of sham “issue ads”— the thinly veiled, largely anonymous attack ads that plague the airwaves near election time. This epic legislative battle was the catalyst behind the creation of the 37-member coalition known as Americans for Reform, which worked to raise awareness about soft money and conducted a large-scale campaign to educate the public about problems in our system of campaign finance.

Throughout the last six years, the Institute has built a presence in the states, working to educate policy makers and opinion leaders about values-based policy reforms that strengthen the people’s confidence in government.

Advancing the Reform Agenda

Since Congress passed the initiatives in the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA), also known as McCain-Feingold, the Reform Institute has moved into new territory. Within campaign finance reform, we are working for proper implementation of BCRA by the Federal Election Commission (FEC), promoting restructuring of the troubled FEC itself, and calling for fair reform of 527 political organizations. The Institute has also expanded our policy expertise into other critical areas affected by the decline of bipartisanship and corrosion in our democratic institutions. This includes providing bipartisan leadership in the area of thoughtful energy policy and climate stewardship, innovative means of protecting the homeland, balanced solutions to the challenges faced by current immigration policies, and promoting opportunity and competitiveness in our economy.

The Institute works at the state level as well to implement key election reforms that will help open up the political process. This includes promoting open primaries, fair redistricting, public campaign funding, lowering barriers to voter registration, facilitating ballot access, and encouraging an independent judiciary.

The Reform Institute is proud to play a pivotal role in many policy areas on both the national and state level. Using our unique, nonpartisan position, the Institute successfully serves as a moderator between various stakeholders to accomplish vital reforms that put our nation’s interests first.


The cruel irony of this all should be great fodder for First Read, Politico, or HuffPo.
 
Now this is rich...

John McCain's latest TV ad tags Barack Obama as "the biggest celebrity in the world" and includes images of Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.

"Is he ready to lead?" asks the voiceover.

Then, today, Politico quotes a McCain adviser dropping in a reference to Obama's celebrity-like response to an attack.
"This is a typically superfluous response from Barack Obama. Like most celebrities, he reacts to fair criticism with a mix of fussiness and hysteria," says McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds, before trying to link the attack back to offshore drilling.
I wonder, did they think through this meme?

After all, John McCain is a constant guest on "The Daily Show" and other celebrity talk shows. We've all seen him...for years and years.

In fact, as recently as July 11, 2008, John McCain's own website included this line from an article about one of his 2007 appearances on David Letterman:
"A political celebrity, McCain is considered a top contender for the nomination."
That's from the google cache. The original article has been scrubbed.

google cache
blog post
 

Rur0ni

Member
Dax01 said:
080801DailyUpdateGraph1_plmrtfc.gif


God... damn...
It'll be fine. State Polling and the Electoral College says so. I don't even bother with national shit anymore. The only two states of concern are Michigan and Ohio.

I believe in 538.
 

TDG

Banned
Trying to make someone being popular seem like a bad thing is dumb. The fact that people are actually believing that it's a bad thing that Obama's popular... it tells me bad thing about the intelligence of Americans.

I guess pretty much anything, when portrayed in a negative light, can seem bad now.

"Barack Obama believes in free Ice Cream for all... he must not be right for America." -McCain ad

"Well gee, I heard that Obama wants to give everyone free Ice Cream. I'm not sure if I can trust a guy like that." -Dumb Americans
 
the disgruntled gamer said:
Trying to make someone being popular seem like a bad thing is dumb. The fact that people are actually believing that it's a bad thing that Obama's popular... it tells me bad thing about the intelligence of Americans.

I guess pretty much anything, when portrayed in a negative light, can seem bad now.

"Barack Obama believes in free Ice Cream for all... he must not be right for America." -McCain ad

"Well gee, I heard that Obama wants to give everyone free Ice Cream. I'm not sure if I can trust a guy like that." -Dumb Americans
This. Never underestimate the Republicans' ability to spin anything and everything their opponent does into a negative, and then never underestimate the sheer stupidity of their base to drink the fucking kool aid.

If Obama manages to get elected, I will be proud of my country for the first time in MY adult life, since Bush has been prez since I was 18.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
If Wal Mart isn't actively fighting to subvert the US government, they deserve whatever labor regulations they get.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Rur0ni said:
It'll be fine. State Polling and the Electoral College says so. I don't even bother with national shit anymore. The only two states of concern are Michigan and Ohio.

I believe in 538.
Yeah, the gallup has been bouncing up and down this entire time. It's a data point, but just one. I get a kick out of the weight people put on it, though.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/07/todays-polls-pm-edition-731.html

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/obama-outperforming-kerry-among-nearly.html

For balance.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
siamesedreamer said:
Link

Absolutely pathetic...clearly he was referring to race. He was race baiting because McCain won't.
The next post I see from you regarding race baiting will be your last, you hypocrite.
 
JayDubya said:
Seems like a fair concern. If Wal-Mart doesn't want to work with unions, why should it have to. That seems to be Mandark's perpetual fall-back point, that these companies elected to contract with union labor in the first place.

He's kind of right; if you're dumb enough to sign away authority to reward merit and lots of other authority to some extra-administrative body like a union, you pretty much deserve them.

Legislation that would force private entities like Wal-Mart to contract with labor unions are simply unconscionable. But I'm sure I'll see some jack-ass defending them, just the same.
If this union is created there's most likely a reason for it...
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The Lamonster said:
Yup. Obama was talking about race and it's foolish for Burton to claim he wasn't.

Also thought it was stupid for them to so harshly and immediately condemn Ludacris' song.

Ludacris was a dumbass for saying what he said being that he wants Obama to be president.

You can't call Hillary a bitch or say McCain should be paralyzed in the middle of the campaign.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Ludacris was a dumbass for saying what he said being that he wants Obama to be president.

You can't call Hillary a bitch or say McCain should be paralyzed in the middle of the campaign.
Yep... Luda made himself the new Father Pfleger... GAF would have b& him.
 
Rur0ni said:
It'll be fine. State Polling and the Electoral College says so. I don't even bother with national shit anymore. The only two states of concern are Michigan and Ohio.

I believe in 538.
I follow Electoral-vote.com, which currently has Obama at 316 and McCain at 198 electoral votes, respectively, with 24 ties.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
JayDubya said:
Seems like a fair concern. If Wal-Mart doesn't want to work with unions, why should it have to.

It goes beyond that though. Wal-Mart has been known to illegally fire employees that attempt to start a union, and they have extensive anti-union surveillance programs intended to keep employees from ever starting one. They'll even close down whole stores if their workers attempt to unionize.
 

Cheebs

Member
Gexecuter said:
After seeing that gallup poll with carter and reagan i think the national gallup poll is pretty useless, we should focus on the states polls.
No, its not that they are useless period, they are useless till after the conventions. Things change a TON following the conventions
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Steve Youngblood said:
It is disingenuous. However, like bitter-gate, I think what's unfortunate here is not that he said it, but because he can't really elaborate on that point. It could have been phrased better, but I agree with him. It would be great if he could articulate it, but unfortunately it's too controversial, so all he can do is walk away whistling hoping that people forget about it.


i think its fucked that hillary was allowed to refer to her femininity.. but obama cant refer to his ethnicity. how dare that black man bring race into this!!!!!!
 

JayDubya

Banned
ZealousD said:
It goes beyond that though. Wal-Mart has been known to illegally fire employees that attempt to start a union, and they have extensive anti-union surveillance programs intended to keep employees from ever starting one. They'll even close down whole stores if their workers attempt to unionize.

So... they're pro-active and smart about fighting unions? Kay.
 

gcubed

Member
JayDubya said:
Seems like a fair concern. If Wal-Mart doesn't want to work with unions, why should it have to. That seems to be Mandark's perpetual fall-back point, that these companies elected to contract with union labor in the first place.

He's kind of right; if you're dumb enough to sign away authority to reward merit and lots of other authority to some extra-administrative body like a union, you pretty much deserve them.

Legislation that would force private entities like Wal-Mart to contract with labor unions are simply unconscionable. But I'm sure I'll see some jack-ass defending them, just the same.

i find it rare that i agree with JayDubya, but i 100% agree on this... and IMO there is no way you can defend it.
 

bill0527

Member
I wonder what percentage of people claiming they are going to vote for Obama, really have no intention of voting for Obama and will go the other way once they're in the privacy of the voting booth.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
bill0527 said:
I wonder what percentage of people claiming they are going to vote for Obama, really have no intention of voting for Obama and will go the other way once they're in the privacy of the voting booth.

There was a recent study which showed the Bradley Effect is no longer operative.

It's not like they have a huge amount of data to work with, but still.
 

Diablos

Member
Dax01 said:
080801DailyUpdateGraph1_plmrtfc.gif


God... damn...
Oh boy, a tie!

If the Britney and Paris video contributed to that, then Americans will fall for anything. There's no campaign strategy that can save people from falling for that shit, even though if Obama loses people would claim otherwise.

Also, if Britney sues McCain - :lol
Finally, she does something worthy of our respect!
 
bill0527 said:
I wonder what percentage of people claiming they are going to vote for Obama, really have no intention of voting for Obama and will go the other way once they're in the privacy of the voting booth.
I wonder what percentage of people claiming they are going to vote for McCain, really have no intention of voting for McCain and will go the other way once they're in the privacy of the voting booth.
 
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