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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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maximum360
Member
Gotta love Feingold: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=781576
Washington - If Republican John McCain needs someone to vouch for his independence, he could easily do worse than Senate colleague Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, a liberal Democrat from a key battleground state.
"I think the guy calls 'em as he sees 'em, and as president would call 'em as he sees 'em, and would make people mad all over the place because it wouldn't fit anybody's playbook," said Feingold, who teamed up with McCain to rewrite federal campaign laws.
"He would be very original," Feingold said.
Those are not exactly Democratic talking points.
In fact, while Feingold supports his fellow Democrat Barack Obama for president, he continues to express (when asked) his affection and admiration for McCain, even in ways that deviate from his party's core strategy against the Arizona Republican, which is to paint him as a clone of President Bush, and a "maverick no more."
Feingold calls McCain "very original" and a "maverick by nature." McCain's own TV ads call him the "original maverick."
"I'd rather have Obama for many, many reasons," Feingold said, citing his deep differences with McCain over foreign policy, health care and civil liberties, and his belief that Obama could be an inspirational president.
He also is critical of McCain's campaign, suggesting that its efforts to "tarnish" Obama may end up tarnishing McCain as well.
"But the notion that somehow (McCain) is going to get in there and be some kind of ideological Newt Gingrich right-winger is a joke. There's no way that he would do that," Feingold said.
Worked with both
Feingold was interviewed about the race because of his unique history with the two presumptive nominees, partnering on each man's signature legislative effort: in McCain's case, the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law of 2002; in Obama's case, the ethics and lobbying reforms of 2007.
Feingold describes both candidates as effective lawmakers who are in many ways "less ideological than I am."
"They both have the intellectual ability and the maturity to form judgments about important policy issues. I'd feel comfortable with both of them in there as president," Feingold said. "They are not people who are just preening for the cameras. They're both celebrities. (But) they're the rare breed: celebrities who are actually interested in getting things done."
Feingold credits Obama, the designated point man on the Senate ethics bill, for holding firm against "enormous pressure from within the Democratic Party" to water it down.
"He definitely has the ability to work with people of the other party, but he also, I felt, showed a willingness not to give away the store, which would have been my principal concern," said Feingold.
"I thought, 'This is going to be a guy I'm going to enjoy working with over the years, because he knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.' "
'Soul mate' on reform
But Feingold's history with McCain is much richer, especially the six-year bonding experience that was McCain-Feingold, a legislative Long March that annoyed people in both parties before it improbably passed Congress and was signed by President Bush. The two even hit the road together to drum up public support before the final Senate debate, McCain telling one New Orleans audience, "Russ and I are happy warriors."
"He's a very good legislator from my point of view, because when he gets onto something, he doesn't just want to introduce a bill, he likes to move it. And he's fearless," Feingold said of McCain, who once called the Wisconsin Democrat a "philosophical soul mate" on reform issues. (The two partnered on several other bills in addition to campaign finance.)
"People couldn't believe how long we stayed on McCain-Feingold. . . . We'd come to those press conferences (year after year) and you guys would laugh at us, I mean, literally," said Feingold, grinning.
"He's a great guy to fight an uphill battle with legislatively. He keeps his word. . . . I probably shouldn't be saying this stuff, but to be honest about it, it was one of the better professional experiences I've ever had in my life," Feingold said.
Independence at issue
Such testimonials are music to the McCain campaign, for which the path to victory depends on swing voters seeing McCain as "his own man," not an extension of the Bush presidency. The McCain campaign released a Web video last week featuring clips of Democrats over the years - Feingold, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Tom Daschle - praising McCain.
Kerry fired back by saying the McCain of 2008 is "unrecognizable from the John McCain of just a couple years ago" and has "changed overnight into a George Bush nominee with a Karl Rove campaign." The Democratic Party put out its own Web video with the tag line "Maverick No More." Obama released a TV ad asking, "The original maverick? Or just more of the same?"
The Feingold interview took place before this whole skirmish over McCain's "maverick" credentials unfolded last week. But Feingold's comments about McCain were quite different from Kerry's. While Feingold criticized the McCain camp for its attacks on Obama and voiced "some concerns" that McCain has "changed" in this campaign, he stopped far short of making the argument that McCain has morphed into a right-wing Republican Bush clone.
"He does seem much more tight and less fun than he was in the 2000 campaign. I worry for his sake - though I'm supporting his opponent - that his handlers are constraining him too much," said Feingold, who said that tightness has played into the image of McCain as a cranky "Mr. Wilson" type - a reference to the "Dennis the Menace" character who's always yelling at Dennis for running across his lawn.
"It's unfair, because McCain's a blast. He's fun to be around. He's certainly young in spirit. He's actually very young in energy," said Feingold.
Anger 'burns fast'
Age is not the only rap on McCain that Feingold suggests is unfair. Another is the notion that McCain's too temperamental to be president.
"Yes, he shows temper. But he burns fast, and he doesn't let it cloud his judgment. He would not be a loose cannon in the Oval Office," said Feingold. "It's not like he's going to pick up the red phone in a rage."
As for what kind of Republican McCain is, Feingold makes the argument, not surprisingly, that McCain's vision of where he wants to take the country is "mistaken."
But he doesn't take issue with McCain's presentation of himself as a politician with a deep independent streak.
"He is not a guy who wants to be chummy-chummy with political leaders of the party. He doesn't like that sort of constraint. He's an independent," said Feingold. "So he somehow managed to become the nominee of the Republican Party. But we all know it's not because he was somebody that was kissing up to the Republican establishment, to say the least."
Seriously, I think democrats can't help but to eat their young.
Washington - If Republican John McCain needs someone to vouch for his independence, he could easily do worse than Senate colleague Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, a liberal Democrat from a key battleground state.
"I think the guy calls 'em as he sees 'em, and as president would call 'em as he sees 'em, and would make people mad all over the place because it wouldn't fit anybody's playbook," said Feingold, who teamed up with McCain to rewrite federal campaign laws.
"He would be very original," Feingold said.
Those are not exactly Democratic talking points.
In fact, while Feingold supports his fellow Democrat Barack Obama for president, he continues to express (when asked) his affection and admiration for McCain, even in ways that deviate from his party's core strategy against the Arizona Republican, which is to paint him as a clone of President Bush, and a "maverick no more."
Feingold calls McCain "very original" and a "maverick by nature." McCain's own TV ads call him the "original maverick."
"I'd rather have Obama for many, many reasons," Feingold said, citing his deep differences with McCain over foreign policy, health care and civil liberties, and his belief that Obama could be an inspirational president.
He also is critical of McCain's campaign, suggesting that its efforts to "tarnish" Obama may end up tarnishing McCain as well.
"But the notion that somehow (McCain) is going to get in there and be some kind of ideological Newt Gingrich right-winger is a joke. There's no way that he would do that," Feingold said.
Worked with both
Feingold was interviewed about the race because of his unique history with the two presumptive nominees, partnering on each man's signature legislative effort: in McCain's case, the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law of 2002; in Obama's case, the ethics and lobbying reforms of 2007.
Feingold describes both candidates as effective lawmakers who are in many ways "less ideological than I am."
"They both have the intellectual ability and the maturity to form judgments about important policy issues. I'd feel comfortable with both of them in there as president," Feingold said. "They are not people who are just preening for the cameras. They're both celebrities. (But) they're the rare breed: celebrities who are actually interested in getting things done."
Feingold credits Obama, the designated point man on the Senate ethics bill, for holding firm against "enormous pressure from within the Democratic Party" to water it down.
"He definitely has the ability to work with people of the other party, but he also, I felt, showed a willingness not to give away the store, which would have been my principal concern," said Feingold.
"I thought, 'This is going to be a guy I'm going to enjoy working with over the years, because he knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.' "
'Soul mate' on reform
But Feingold's history with McCain is much richer, especially the six-year bonding experience that was McCain-Feingold, a legislative Long March that annoyed people in both parties before it improbably passed Congress and was signed by President Bush. The two even hit the road together to drum up public support before the final Senate debate, McCain telling one New Orleans audience, "Russ and I are happy warriors."
"He's a very good legislator from my point of view, because when he gets onto something, he doesn't just want to introduce a bill, he likes to move it. And he's fearless," Feingold said of McCain, who once called the Wisconsin Democrat a "philosophical soul mate" on reform issues. (The two partnered on several other bills in addition to campaign finance.)
"People couldn't believe how long we stayed on McCain-Feingold. . . . We'd come to those press conferences (year after year) and you guys would laugh at us, I mean, literally," said Feingold, grinning.
"He's a great guy to fight an uphill battle with legislatively. He keeps his word. . . . I probably shouldn't be saying this stuff, but to be honest about it, it was one of the better professional experiences I've ever had in my life," Feingold said.
Independence at issue
Such testimonials are music to the McCain campaign, for which the path to victory depends on swing voters seeing McCain as "his own man," not an extension of the Bush presidency. The McCain campaign released a Web video last week featuring clips of Democrats over the years - Feingold, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Tom Daschle - praising McCain.
Kerry fired back by saying the McCain of 2008 is "unrecognizable from the John McCain of just a couple years ago" and has "changed overnight into a George Bush nominee with a Karl Rove campaign." The Democratic Party put out its own Web video with the tag line "Maverick No More." Obama released a TV ad asking, "The original maverick? Or just more of the same?"
The Feingold interview took place before this whole skirmish over McCain's "maverick" credentials unfolded last week. But Feingold's comments about McCain were quite different from Kerry's. While Feingold criticized the McCain camp for its attacks on Obama and voiced "some concerns" that McCain has "changed" in this campaign, he stopped far short of making the argument that McCain has morphed into a right-wing Republican Bush clone.
"He does seem much more tight and less fun than he was in the 2000 campaign. I worry for his sake - though I'm supporting his opponent - that his handlers are constraining him too much," said Feingold, who said that tightness has played into the image of McCain as a cranky "Mr. Wilson" type - a reference to the "Dennis the Menace" character who's always yelling at Dennis for running across his lawn.
"It's unfair, because McCain's a blast. He's fun to be around. He's certainly young in spirit. He's actually very young in energy," said Feingold.
Anger 'burns fast'
Age is not the only rap on McCain that Feingold suggests is unfair. Another is the notion that McCain's too temperamental to be president.
"Yes, he shows temper. But he burns fast, and he doesn't let it cloud his judgment. He would not be a loose cannon in the Oval Office," said Feingold. "It's not like he's going to pick up the red phone in a rage."
As for what kind of Republican McCain is, Feingold makes the argument, not surprisingly, that McCain's vision of where he wants to take the country is "mistaken."
But he doesn't take issue with McCain's presentation of himself as a politician with a deep independent streak.
"He is not a guy who wants to be chummy-chummy with political leaders of the party. He doesn't like that sort of constraint. He's an independent," said Feingold. "So he somehow managed to become the nominee of the Republican Party. But we all know it's not because he was somebody that was kissing up to the Republican establishment, to say the least."
Seriously, I think democrats can't help but to eat their young.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I don't know about Biden. Sure he has the FP experience, but the man can stir up trouble when he opens his mouth.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Thomas Sowell embarrassing himself
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/the_galbraith_effect.html
I'm not questioning his economic positions/disagreements with Obama there, but the petty, childish attacks should be below him. smh
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/the_galbraith_effect.html
I'm not questioning his economic positions/disagreements with Obama there, but the petty, childish attacks should be below him. smh
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PhoenixDark said:
This article was pure shit. There are some that are still saying about Obama still talks generally and never in specfics. But what I never understand is where are these same people wen Obama talks specifics in town hall meetings?
And when the fuck did McCain become the politician of specifics? The media narrative is really deep with this one and there isn't a way to stop it.
typhonsentra
Banned
What world is Sowell living in? :lol
People complained about the Gibson debate because he pushed the issues too hard.... right. Way to change history to support your point douchebag.
He even "modifies" (Lies about) the question Gibson asked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8&feature=related (it's around 2:30)
Notice the "Typically" qualifier he put in there, it's completely missing from the actual exchange. Gibson makes a very specific claim, no uncertainty or wiggle-room like Sowell claims. "History shows...."
People complained about the Gibson debate because he pushed the issues too hard.... right. Way to change history to support your point douchebag.
He even "modifies" (Lies about) the question Gibson asked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8&feature=related (it's around 2:30)
Notice the "Typically" qualifier he put in there, it's completely missing from the actual exchange. Gibson makes a very specific claim, no uncertainty or wiggle-room like Sowell claims. "History shows...."
And it worked, than he came back and what.mckmas8808 said:
Must have been a shitty ad, becuase I'm still hearing talk about Obama being a celebrity.mckmas8808 said:
Than again, there are far more important things in the world right now that an obama ad, so maybe it was just bad timing.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
avatar299 said:
And he came back still leading. Same as ever. *shrug*
Disappeared shortly after McCain started going after Obama aggressively.tanod said:
Since politics doesn't take place in a vacuum we can not truly understand the reason for the change, nor can we truly know if a change took place. The entire idea of a narrative is a narrative itself...
polyh3dron
Banned
What is with this whole thing about Clintonistas getting mad if Obama chooses a woman as a VP candidate who is not Hillary? Why wouldn't they be proud that a woman has a chance? Isn't that sexism, or is it only sexism when it's against Hillary?Instigator said:
Why the fuck should Hillary Clinton have a monopoly on female VP candidacy and how is this not sexist?
soul creator
Member
PhoenixDark said:
that's pretty much just another "obama is popular, so that obviously means he has no substance and he's a fad" argument. If the only thing he knows about Obama are the rallies with thousands of people, then of course it'll seem that he "doesn't have substance". Why the fuck would anyone expect detailed policy discussions at those rallies? That's like going to the club and wondering why MF Doom isn't being played.
Of course he'll conveniently ignore all the town halls where Obama does talk about more "substance" (since that's a venue suited to more detailed policy explanations), 1 on 1 interviews, and all the plans he has specified on his site.
And no one was angry just because of the capital gains tax question in and of itself, but because Gibson made it seem like economic prosperity is directly tied to capital gains tax rates, or that capital gains tax rates even apply to the vast majority of people (remember the whole "people that make $200,000 a year are considered middle class thing? heh)
Also, he conveniently ignores all of the other ayers/wright/patriotism/flag pin questions that Gibson did ask, which is what people were actually annoyed about.
The Librarian
Banned
Wow.APF said:
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I was reading an article and it was saying that sometime recently, Chuck Todd was on Countdown and he basically said that McCain winning the electoral is unlikely or virtually impossible. Anyone have a link to that or can tell me what they that ran so I can look. 
Lv99 Slacker
Member
polyh3dron
Banned
Chuck Godd has spoken, therefore it is decided and we can all go home.Agent Icebeezy said:I was reading an article and it was saying that sometime recently, Chuck Todd was on Countdown and he basically said that McCain winning the electoral is unlikely or virtually impossible. Anyone have a link to that or can tell me what they that ran so I can look.
This is not sarcasm, it is fact.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/05/is-obamas-lead-in-gallup_n_117058.html?page=7tanod said:
And here we are, back at +5. All the other polls have the same 5 or 6 margin for Obama - right where it started in early June. The more things change...
Gallup was literally the only poll to show a bump. Everything else was flat.NLB2 said:
Edit: beat.
tanod said:
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Lv99 Slacker said:
You know, the funny thing about experience and them trying to pin this on Obama. He is one of the smartest politicians we've ever seen. Look at how everything gets done. They brush up on the rules available and then proceed from there. They leave no stone unturned. There will be a few books on how Obama and his campaign changed the face of presidential campaigning.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
polyh3dron said:
Yes it's sexist and the whole media has been sexist repeating and agreeing with the notion. For some reason Hillary is the only woman that can be picked.
The crazy thing is if K Seblieus was a man she would already be the nominee.
Agent Icebeezy said:I was reading an article and it was saying that sometime recently, Chuck Todd was on Countdown and he basically said that McCain winning the electoral is unlikely or virtually impossible. Anyone have a link to that or can tell me what they that ran so I can look.
I guess we can close this thread and hibernate until Nov. 4 then.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
The Librarian
Banned
Any news on voter registration in NC? Is there even a chance Obama can take this state?Agent Icebeezy said:
soul creator
Member
article mentioning voter fraud?
scorcho and Gaborn in 5...4...
scorcho and Gaborn in 5...4...
Left of center blog? They were quoting the Wall Street Journal.Gaborn said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121850477150231953.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_topbox
WALL STREET JOURNAL said:
Follow the links before you fall back on attacking the messanger. :lol
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
WOW! First Read is the shiznit.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Gaborn said:
lol wtf
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:
Yeah its very stupid. Even first read falls for the narrative.
And even if the 65+ white people did work, why only count those old people as the working class whites?
Do the 64 and younger whites NOT count now?
scorcho said:
Ok, fair enough, I maintain though the article is lazy journalism, whether they pulled it from the WSJ or anywhere else.
And just because the Brennan Center is "non-partisan" that doesn't mean they're non-partisan. James Dobson's group, Focus on the Family is a 501(c)(3) corporation, but they're not actually what I'd call non-partisan either.
BotoxAgent
Member
GhaleonEB said:
it would be awesome if this was the start of a new movement, similar to Obama's slow acquisition of superdelegates.
while the Brennan Center thrives under the tutelage of NYU Law, it's also worth noting that the only conservative think tank pushing massive voter fraud claims (ACVR) folded inauspiciously once it was realized that -
a. the EAC realized that known unknowns that can't be proven don't prove the unknown
b. ACVR was an arm of the GOP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Center_for_Voting_Rights
http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=4418
a. the EAC realized that known unknowns that can't be proven don't prove the unknown
b. ACVR was an arm of the GOP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Center_for_Voting_Rights
http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=4418
what?
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Tamanon said:
If Barack would have done that, they would have questioned his patriotism
a. one of his advisors was a paid lobbyist for Georgia. (warning! left of center publication link)Tamanon said:
b. ignorant machismo foreign policy without actual balls polls well
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