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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
That's it. If you don't vote for Obama now, you're a loser. Jeff Bridges was straight up ballin' in The Contender, and anything less than picking him as a great fictional president is a crime!
Instigator
Banned
tanod said:
And Bayh is a ridiculous last name.
Kayne and Sebellius by default. Odds are on the former since the Clintonistas would complain about the latter.
The Librarian
Banned
Yep.Instigator said:
Father_Brain
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I can't believe that so many people here seem to either be unaware of this or think it wouldn't be a big deal. Picking Bayh as VP would hugely undermine Obama's message on foreign policy.
Father_Brain
Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
In case you didn't read the article GhaleonEB linked to, Bayh didn't just vote for the war; he co-chaired a neoconservative pro-war organization with none other than McCain and Lieberman.
Lv99 Slacker
Member
Cheebs said:And unlike say the gov. of ohio and PA Bayh more or less kept his mouth shut about attacking Obama. No weird moments for anti-Obama ads from him.
Bayh IMO is his best possible choice.
Lots of experience
From red state
White blue-collar support
Former Hillary guy to help with unity
Never is off message
Young, good looking guy makes a good picture with Obama
Both he and Obama would be a mid-west ticket with most swing states in the mid-west this helps
Only drawback is he isn't that charismatic, but Obama is so charismatic and affable it really is not something Obama needs (unlike Kerry who needed the friendly charisma of Edwards to make up for his aloofness)
AUDIO: Rachel Maddow and John Nichols, Washington correspondent for the magazine, The Nation, on why Evan Bayh would make a terrible VP pick
I read it. It's worth noting that Bayh has said that if he knew what he knows now, he wouldn't have done the things he did.Father_Brain said:
Besides, I thought everyone was so happy that Obama was going to bring different perspectives to his cabinet, that he was going to end the closed-mindedness in Washington, and reach across the aisle. It sure sounds as if some of you are having second thoughts about this?
Instigator
Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
A politically convenient thing to say for a Democrat.
PhoenixDark
Banned
As a snotty nosed kid I was able to look up enough info that convinced me the war was bullshit. I imagine senators and congressmen had far better resources than my google, Antiwar.com, Commondreams.org, NY Times, etc bookmark list
That being said I don't think someone who supported the war should automatically be disqualified from the VP. I didn't know about that Bayh/McCain committee; that seems to really be a negative, more so than the simple "bububbu he supported teh war too" spiels right wing radio would start if Bayh was chosen.
So...no Bayh
You guys would dismiss Biden as well, on this premise?
That being said I don't think someone who supported the war should automatically be disqualified from the VP. I didn't know about that Bayh/McCain committee; that seems to really be a negative, more so than the simple "bububbu he supported teh war too" spiels right wing radio would start if Bayh was chosen.
So...no Bayh
You guys would dismiss Biden as well, on this premise?
typhonsentra
Banned
I kinda dislike Obama's pop culture responses because they're so obviously not things him or his family care that much about. Even when asked about hip-hop he skirts the question and points out how "Eclectic" his tastes are. Lame.
Instigator
Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
Then Bayh is one of three things:
1. A hawkish Democrat 'regretting' his vote because of the current national climate and to boost his chances for the VP slot. Given the right circumstances, he'd still make the same vote again and again.
2. A vascillating politician with no core, taking positions and voting according to what he feels is best for his career.
3. A tool.
Father_Brain
Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I don't think so either, but if Obama does so, it shouldn't be someone like Bayh who went well beyond voting for the AUMF in 2002, and should be someone who has clearly and unequivocally apologized for supporting it.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
PhoenixDark said:
While a great attack dog with more than sufficient FP experience, I'd dismiss him on the premise that he's equally liable to saying something stupid as he is to saying something helpful. And I always get the "too much baggage" vibe from him for some reason.
PhoenixDark
Banned
typhonsentra said:
To be fair we've known for awhile that he's a big fan of Chicago area MCs like Common and Kanye West; I'd imagine he skirts the questions because of the potential media shitstorm that could occur ("Obama iPod includes racist rapper Common, conspiracy monger West"). Interestingly when a politician admits to liking acts like the Rolling Stones you don't hear anything about them supporting "drug use promoting music." It's a double standard. Right wing radio tried to start shit over Obama saying he liked Jay-Z (99 Problems...omg Obama supports misogyny) :/
speculawyer
Member
That hair-cut alone should disqualify him. He looks like he's 12. :lol
prodystopian
Member
tanod said:
Experience = bad.
I know what you meant, but that just looks stupid in print.
I think the war vote runs deeper than that. Obama has essentially set this up a de facto litmus test for his veep.the disgruntled gamer said:
1) Obama has repeatedly said that his correct judgment on Iraq before the war and all through it demonstrates his readiness to be President.
2) Obama used that argument against Clinton, Edwards and McCain due to their votes for the Iraq war.
3) Obama has said that in his veep, he is looking for someone with the right judgment to run the country on day 1 if something happens to himself.
I don't see how Obama can exempt his veep from the same evaluation he is applying to hiimself and to the other candidates. It would be hypocritical and undermine a key difference Obama has with McCain. And in the case of Bayh, as the Times said, he wasn't just wrong, he was aggressively wrong.
I'm all for a diverse cabinet, but I believe that anyone who endorsed or voted for the Iraq war has no business running the country. We've lost too much to put someone who supported it in that kind of power.the disgruntled gamer said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So basically there isnt any good dems to be VP with Obama. Thanks GAF I cant wait to live with McCain as my fucking president for 4 stupid ass years.
mckmas8808 said:
Shaping the narrative is not the same thing as coming up with the latest attack ad or being talked about on cable news shows, although cable news shows and attack ads are mechanisms for expressing a narrative.
A narrative is an organizational scheme expressed in story form and is the central mechanism through which ideologies are expressed and absorbed. Various political groups have different narratives which attempt to legitimize their ideology by linking causes with effects through a story form.
Both McCain and Obama will attempt to control the narrative in regards to their own lives, the political situation which the US is in today, and their individual political histories.
President Bush showed a great job of shaping the political narrative of the nation four years ago by forcing the campaign to be about gay marriage and national security rather than the war in Iraq, while his supporters, such as the Swift Boat Vets for Truth created a new narrative that portrayed John Kerry as a self-serving traitor as opposed to a war hero.
McCain and his supporters attempt to portray him as a war hero who places the well being of America above partisan politics while portraying Obama as a shallow celebrity who is way out of his league running for POTUS with socialist tendencies and a desire to weaken the US militarily. Obama is trying to portray himself as a new type of politician who will fix American foreign relations and usher in a new era of American exceptionalism. While his supporters are trying to portray John McCain as Bush 44 who will bring economic ruin the America.
So far it seems as if McCain's narrative is resonating more with the voting population as evidenced by his climb in poll numbers.
Who can shape the political narrative (i.e. which issues are important for this election and who can best influence those issues) will probably not be seen until much closer to the election.
The Librarian
Banned
Um. Kaine and Sebelius.mckmas8808 said:
Father_Brain
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I'd prefer someone who's consistently opposed the Iraq war, but as I said above, I wouldn't be too bothered by a VP pick who voted for the AUMF and subsequently gave an unequivocal apology for it, as Edwards did. A Hillary-esque "if I had known then what I know now" doesn't cut it, though.
But of course, Bayh went well beyond supporting the AUMF and into a full-fledged embrace of neoconservative ideology. Regardless of what he says now, he'd be a terrible choice as VP.
maximum360
Member
maynerd said:
Rachel's not bad but I don't agree with her on some occasions. She can at times be a liberal purist who sees no value in compromise.
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/u...1218538293-UpvPCeifnjf/obEOBBbmbQ&oref=slogin
What we do in Iraq now should be the bigger issue than who supported the policy in the beginning. I think both are important questions but I don't think it should be the ultimate litmus test. People make mistakes. But I think there's a difference between being wrong about something - hell, even dead wrong about something - and being aggressively wrong about something as the article says. sigh :/
I don't like Edwards at all, but for instance his apology over voting for the war seemed honest enough, and really separated him from say Hillary who still refuses to apologize/admit her fault. The Atlantic piece points out how she felt apologizing would make her seem weak, but to me it signifies leadership: when someone can man up and admit a mistake, vowing to learn from it, there's really no downside.
What we do in Iraq now should be the bigger issue than who supported the policy in the beginning. I think both are important questions but I don't think it should be the ultimate litmus test. People make mistakes. But I think there's a difference between being wrong about something - hell, even dead wrong about something - and being aggressively wrong about something as the article says. sigh :/
I don't like Edwards at all, but for instance his apology over voting for the war seemed honest enough, and really separated him from say Hillary who still refuses to apologize/admit her fault. The Atlantic piece points out how she felt apologizing would make her seem weak, but to me it signifies leadership: when someone can man up and admit a mistake, vowing to learn from it, there's really no downside.
maximum360
Member
Dax01 said:
Maybe the former, but definitely not the latter.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dax01 said:
GAF written off Kaine because he is too inexpirenced and has a fucked up haircut.
GAF has wrote off Sebelius because she is a woman.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
NLB2 said:
Just to let you know, McCain has fallen in the poll numbers within the last week.
PhoenixDark
Banned
mckmas8808 said:
But his wife looks like Bayh so it evens out
And at the same time, one poll came out with the "likely voters" favoring McCain by 4. The fall in Gallup and that poll (also by Gallup) led to the perception that some kind of bubble had burst. Really, it was noise and nothing has changed at the national level since Obama got the nomination.tanod said:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
Father_Brain
Banned
APF said:
Unfortunately, you're right. I suspect that his pick will be aimed at appeasing the type of people in the Beltway who considered his FISA reversal "moving to the center."
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