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[Cheebs]

Maybe he doesn't fit the "Change" image, but how hard do you think the GOP can actually push that meme? They're entire angle is that Obama is an unknown, what will they say? Admit that Obama picked someone with more experience than their own guy?

Exactly. The fact the media will be saying that Biden has been in the senate LONGER than McCain helps more than it hurts, easily.

 

[UltimaKilo]

McCain has looked better than you thought? Are you referring to polling numbers? I'm just asking for clarification, because surely you're not referring to his skills as a campaigner, are you?

As a campaigner, he certainly is boring when he gives speeches, unlike Obama. The Republicans lack the "great campaigner" that Bush was with McCain.

However, while Obama is great at formal speeches, McCain's strong suit is his casual interviews where he is simple and to the point, like he was during the forum.

The debates will be interesting, neither candidate is very good at debating, which is yet another reason the VP choice will be important and why I like Clinton over Biden for Obama. McCain, I'd probably go Romney just to make sure McCain quells the notion of being a liberal.

 

[maximum360]

Nice. Lieberman to speak at the GOP convention.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/20/joe-lieberman-will-speak_n_120067.html

The guy is scum.

 

[Cheebs]

I think Biden is probably a bad idea, seeing how Obama is all about "change" and Biden brings little of that. However, Biden does bring in the experience that Obama lacks which makes you think why it isn't Biden running as President and Obama at VP.

I think if things were different, Clinton would have been the perfect choice. However, the long personal primary killed any chance of that. Edwards would have seemed like a plausible choice before we found out about his affair.

If I were advising the candidates I'd probably tell them this:

Obama - Biden, Bayh
McCain - Romney, Powell

Then again, I'm not advising the candidates and I'm sure the people that are currently, surpass my knowledge.

Powell would never accept McCain's offer. He seems to vastly favor Obama in his rhetoric. Powell seems to be very anti-Iraq War since he left the white house.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Nice. Lieberman to speak at the GOP convention.

He must have been promised a cabinet position should McCain win because he will be expelled from Democrat activities because of this.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

However, while Obama is great at formal speeches, McCain's strong suit is his casual interviews where he is simple and to the point, like he was during the forum.

But again, I'm inclined to believe that most of this praise for his casual, impromptu candidness is just as a fond remembrance of his presidential bid during the 2000 primaries. Now, THAT guy seemed like a maverick. That guy was loved by the media.

McCain '08 seems to have completely embraced the notion that this election is about Obama. I really haven't seen anything resembling a coherent message out of McCain in the last month, aside from the stuff that attacks Obama. I don't think that the Warren event really changes things, as again, it showcased far less his on-the-spot quick thinking, and more his ability to deliver a canned message that resonated with a particular crowd.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Maybe he doesn't fit the "Change" image, but how hard do you think the GOP can actually push that meme?

It doesn't have anything to do with the GOP pushing a meme. Rather, it negates Obama's attacks on McCain. How can he attack McCain for being a career politician (aka part of the problem) when his own right hand man has been in Washington a decade longer?

 

[pxleyes]

It doesn't have anything to do with the GOP pushing a meme. Rather, it negates Obama's attacks on McCain. How can he attack McCain for being a career politician (aka part of the problem) when his own right hand man has been in Washington a decade longer?

Quite easily when his right hand man (or woman) has more integrity in their little pinky than McCain has in his entire campaign.

 

[Tamanon]

It doesn't have anything to do with the GOP pushing a meme. Rather, it negates Obama's attacks on McCain. How can he attack McCain for being a career politician (aka part of the problem) when his own right hand man has been in Washington a decade longer?

Eh, by doing the same thing he's been doing, by attacking him for being the WRONG policies over the years. He actually hasn't really attacked McCain too much for being a career politician in the past month or so, just for being more Bush.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Powell would never accept McCain's offer. He seems to vastly favor Obama in his rhetoric. Powell seems to be very anti-Iraq War since he left the white house.

I would never says "never" to that idea. Powell might be sore, but a shot at VP is not something you turn down. Then again, McCain did turn down the VP ticket from Kerry, even though he was sour with Bush.

I think that even if McCain asked Hillary Clinton, she would entertain the notion! :lol

It's possible, but unlikely.

 

[Deku]

Powell would never accept McCain's offer. He seems to vastly favor Obama in his rhetoric. Powell seems to be very anti-Iraq War since he left the white house.

Powell was the Secretary of State and worked in the State Department, not the white house.

and yes, of course he is unhappy with being used and having his reputation flushed down the drain by the Iraq debacle. he said as much in subsequent interviews after his departure from state.

 

[maximum360]

He looked pretty good at the Warren event I thought. Better than I thought he would look. I still think its a lot more likely that Obama comes across a lot better, but McCain has shown a bit of life lately IMO.

Most analysis of the event was pretty stupid in my opinion. If you want to rate the event on who gave a better stump speech response to almost all questions then McCain easily won. McCain totally pandered to the audience with short stump speech answers and he is hailed as being "teh winnar".

McCain's answer to the question regarding dealing with evil: "Defeat it." Crowd goes into an uproar and reporters/pundits are awestruck. Thinking Americans go "huh?".

 

[Xisiqomelir]

I'm not cenk, but this is my take on it:

Political "news" shows are focused on how the politics of the day will be seen by voters, and what effect it will have on "the game" of politics - a "game" played mostly by the network news stations. They rarely, if ever, discuss whether or not what politicians say is true. For example, take the faith forum at Saddleback. Even though most pundits offhandedly acknowledged that McCain spent most of his answers dodging questions and reverting to stump speech mode, they still declared him the winner based on his use of quick soundbites (that the media uses to sell stories) and the crowd reaction. They are also spending this entire weak foaming at the mouth, trying desperately to leak Obama's VP and undermine his announcement process before his supporters get the text. In fact, one of the main reasons Obama fell out of favor with the cable news networks is because he HASN'T been playing their game, hasn't trusted them. It's all just a game to these politics newscasters.

Sports news, I wager, just reports what happens and the sportscasters actually go into whether a guy played good or not, whether a coach made good decisions, whether a trade was well done or retarded. They form opinions based on the "facts on the ground" and not how OTHER people should view the facts.

This is the problem with the 24 hour "news" networks. They have discussed the game of politics so much that they have become the game.

This is a completely solid post. I give it much love.

I also totally agree with the part about the newsworks QQing because Obama isn't "doing things the accepted way". It's very reminiscent of how the computer press shuns Apple and the gaming press shuns Nintendo despite their rampant successes.

 

[PhoenixDark]

A new Public Policy Polling survey in Missouri shows Sen. John McCain with a ten point lead over Sen. Barack Obama, 50% to 40%.

McCain had a three point lead last month.

Key findings: "The key to McCain's rise is nearly doubling his lead among white voters. He now has a 56-35 advantage with them, up from 50-39 in July. Obama is still dominating among black voters but it's nearly impossible for him to win in Missouri without keeping his deficit with whites in single digits."

Furthermore, McCain "is doing a better job of keeping voters in his party with him than Obama is. He is up 87-9 among Republicans while Obama has a smaller 78-15 lead with Democrats."

The new GWU Battleground poll shows Sen. John McCain just edging Sen. Barack Obama, 40% to 39%.

http://politicalwire.com/

McCain has turned the tide but perhaps at the wrong moment. The VP choices/conventions should conclude with Obama back in the lead. That being said McCain has definitely turned this into a race: Ohio, Virginia, Florida and Colorado are either tied or leaning his way now.

 

[teruterubozu]

It'll be a sad day when people vote for who they're less sick of. Man, did that celebrity-bash ad campaign really work?

 

[Cheebs]

I would never says "never" to that idea. Powell might be sore, but a shot at VP is not something you turn down. Then again, McCain did turn down the VP ticket from Kerry, even though he was sour with Bush.

I think that even if McCain asked Hillary Clinton, she would entertain the notion! :lol

It's possible, but unlikely.

I dont think Powell could ever bring himself to run against Obama. He said he talks to Obama about once every two weeks and in 2007 he said he gives Obama informal opinion and advice on foreign policy. It'd make no sense for him to suddenly attack someone he obviously wants to win and tries to help.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

It'll be a sad day when people vote for who they're less sick of. Man, did that celebrity-bash ad campaign really work?

Well, it did have an impact. The important question, though, is will that narrative carry on through November?

 

[TheKingsCrown]

http://politicalwire.com/

McCain has turned the tide but perhaps at the wrong moment. The VP choices/conventions should conclude with Obama back in the lead. That being said McCain has definitely turned this into a race: Ohio, Virginia, Florida and Colorado are either tied or leaning his way now.

That's because

1. he is advertising the hell out of things
2. Obama isn't hammering home the contrasts in Mccain's message
3. The media isn't doing a thing about the contrasts in Mccain's message either.

Welcome to America

 

[UltimaKilo]

But again, I'm inclined to believe that most of this praise for his casual, impromptu candidness is just as a fond remembrance of his presidential bid during the 2000 primaries. Now, THAT guy seemed like a maverick. That guy was loved by the media.

McCain '08 seems to have completely embraced the notion that this election is about Obama. I really haven't seen anything resembling a coherent message out of McCain in the last month, aside from the stuff that attacks Obama. I don't think that the Warren event really changes things, as again, it showcased far less his on-the-spot quick thinking, and more his ability to deliver a canned message that resonated with a particular crowd.

I agree with this to some extent. You have to remember that McCain is no longer the long-shot, and Obama is the new thing. He had to soften his stance as a Maverick and try to patch things up with the President in order to get the hard conservative votes, just as Obama has had to move to the center to get the independent vote.

 

[maximum360]

http://politicalwire.com/

McCain has turned the tide but perhaps at the wrong moment. The VP choices/conventions should conclude with Obama back in the lead. That being said McCain has definitely turned this into a race: Ohio, Virginia, Florida and Colorado are either tied or leaning his way now.

Democrats fall in love (or out), while Republicans fall in line. Not much has changed.

 

[typhonsentra]

Eh, by doing the same thing he's been doing, by attacking him for being the WRONG policies over the years. He actually hasn't really attacked McCain too much for being a career politician in the past month or so, just for being more Bush.

Exactly. In contrast the only two angles McCain seems to push are:

1.) He's inexperienced.
2.) He's a celebrity.

Picking Biden would largely negate his main strategy. And of course Biden comes with some baggage, they all would. Sebelius is a weak orator, Richardson is a womanizer, Edwards is a womanizer, Bayh is too conservative, Hillary is... a lot of things.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I dont think Powell could ever bring himself to run against Obama. He said he talks to Obama about once every two weeks and in 2007 he said he gives Obama informal opinion and advice on foreign policy. It'd make no sense for him to suddenly attack someone he obviously wants to win and tries to help.

Powell is a Republican, has a friendship of decades with McCain, but friends say he has felt excluded from McCain's foreign policy operation and was impressed when Obama called on him in June. Powell also met around the same time with McCain.

 

[Tamanon]

Powell is a Republican, has a friendship of decades with McCain, but friends say he has felt excluded from McCain's foreign policy operation and was impressed when Obama called on him in June. Powell also met around the same time with McCain.

If Powell was going to hitch his boat to a Republican, it certainly wouldn't be McCain. He represents the foreign policy of the neocons with the fiscal liberalism. Basically he's the polar opposite of Bush41, who's probably the closest idealogically to Powell.

 

[NLB2]

It'll be a sad day when people vote for who they're less sick of. Man, did that celebrity-bash ad campaign really work?

Yes.

It was part of a campaign to shape Obama as an empty suit who could give good speeches but doesn't know a thing about policy.

Obama did no favors for himself with his wishy-washy "above my pay grade" (like he's ever had a pay grade) answers at Saddleback where he played right into the narrative McCain has been creating about Obama.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

So are you saying the legislation didn't try to define the fetus as a person?

I know this is several pages old, and may have been responded to already, but because this seems to have come up again, after I already linked to the actual bill in question, I'll say it again.

No, the bill did not define the fetus as a person. The bill (which you can read here *) is specifically limited to humans after they have been extracted from the mother. By definition, a fetus is in utero, once extracted it's no longer a fetus. It also specifies "completely extracted," so it doesn't apply to the "partial-birth" technique, where the fetus is mostly extracted, but then aborted before the head is extracted.

Now, I know Sen. Obama and other commentators say it defined the fetus as a person, but even after reading the transcript of Sen. Obama's comments against the bill, I can figure out how he comes to that conclusion.

* I linked to the 2001 bill's status page so that you can access all of the info regarding it, click on "Full Text" to get the actual text of the bill. It's pretty short, only 28 lines. It was also introduced virtually identically in 2002 and 2003 (the committee the Sen. Obama chaired blocked an amendment that would definitively address the fetus as a person issue.) It passed in 2005, and to date, I am unaware of any attempt to use it to define the fetus as a person.

I wouldn't really place TOO much weight in Jill Stanek's words, considering that she's a big-time pro-life shill.

Should we not place TOO much weight in Joseph Wilson's word, considering that he's a big-time Valerie Plame shill?

But seriously, you're right... to an extent. Activists are passionate. They're going to give you their best arguments. Which is why you look to the record. In this case, the record, to me, doesn't support Sen. Obama's claim that the bill would've undermined Roe v. Wade. Considering he blocked an amendment that would've brought the bill in line with the federal version, the record, to me, also doesn't support Sen. Obama's claim that he would've supported the bill if only it was in line with the federal version.

(Also, technically, Stanek (and Wilson, and most activists) aren't shills by definition since they wear their affiliations of their sleeves.)

No criminal proceedings were ever even begun according to this "travesty" she claims occurred.

I think that was her point, it happened legally. Also, far as I am aware, no one connected to the story disputes Stanek's claims.

 

[PhoenixDark]

That's because

1. he is advertising the hell out of things
2. Obama isn't hammering home the contrasts in Mccain's message
3. The media isn't doing a thing about the contrasts in Mccain's message either.

Welcome to America

In other words Obama is struggling trying to find a viable message while McCain hammers home his own. The high road is nice and all but it doesn't seem to be working at all; this isn't January, Americans now see Obama has another politician. I'm not saying he should smear McCain, but these weak slaps are getting old. I realize it's real early but the current trends SHOULD have been able to propel Obama through the summer. He's staggered into the fall and only seems to gain bumps when he pulls tricks out his sleeve, like the overseas trip. After the convention there will be no more headline grabbers for him. It'll be debates and mud fights. If Obama loses I definitely think we'll look back and target August as the beginning of the end.

 

[Tamanon]

I know this is several pages old, and may have been responded to already, but because this seems to have come up again, after I already linked to the actual bill in question, I'll say it again.

No, the bill did not define the fetus as a person. The bill (which you can read here *) is specifically limited to humans after they have been extracted from the mother. By definition, a fetus is in utero, once extracted it's no longer a fetus. It also specifies "completely extracted," so it doesn't apply to the "partial-birth" technique, where the fetus is mostly extracted, but then aborted before the head is extracted.

Now, I know Sen. Obama and other commentators say it defined the fetus as a person, but even after reading the transcript of Sen. Obama's comments against the bill, I can figure out how he comes to that conclusion.

* I linked to the 2001 bill's status page so that you can access all of the info regarding it, click on "Full Text" to get the actual text of the bill. It's pretty short, only 28 lines. It was also introduced virtually identically in 2002 and 2003 (the committee the Sen. Obama chaired blocked an amendment that would definitively address the fetus as a person issue.) It passed in 2005, and to date, I am unaware of any attempt to use it to define the fetus as a person.


Should we not place TOO much weight in Joseph Wilson's word, considering that he's a big-time Valerie Plame shill?

But seriously, you're right... to an extent. Activists are passionate. They're going to give you their best arguments. Which is why you look to the record. In this case, the record, to me, doesn't support Sen. Obama's claim that the bill would've undermined Roe v. Wade. Considering he blocked an amendment that would've brought the bill in line with the federal version, the record, to me, also doesn't support Sen. Obama's claim that he would've supported the bill if only it was in line with the federal version.

(Also, technically, Stanek (and Wilson, and most activists) aren't shills by definition since they wear their affiliations of their sleeves.)


I think that was her point, it happened legally. Also, far as I am aware, no one connected to the story disputes Stanek's claims.

Squirrel: It wasn't legal, that's the point. There was already a law on the books saying that what she claims to have witnessed was illegal. The reason I bring up Stanek's activism is that she's actively paying for billboards in Africa that state that condom use will kill you. That immediately throws anything she says into wingnut territory.

 

[teruterubozu]

Yes.

It was part of a campaign to shape Obama as an empty suit who could give good speeches but doesn't know a thing about policy.

Obama did no favors for himself with his wishy-washy "above my pay grade" (like he's ever had a pay grade) answers at Saddleback where he played right into the narrative McCain has been creating about Obama.

If anything it was even simpler (thus more accommodating to the simpleton mindset) - as in "aren't you sick of seeing Obama like Paris, Lohan and Spears?"

 

[UltimaKilo]

If Powell was going to hitch his boat to a Republican, it certainly wouldn't be McCain. He represents the foreign policy of the neocons with the fiscal liberalism. Basically he's the polar opposite of Bush41, who's probably the closest idealogically to Powell.

Well, he could do more as VP than sitting on the sidelines. I'm just entertaining the notion. McCain / Powell could have flaws too, too much foreign & military experience and lacking on economic experience, hence Romney-the likely choice.

Lieberman is very much a long shot as well, though will likely have a spot in a McCain administration.

 

[Tamanon]

Yes.

It was part of a campaign to shape Obama as an empty suit who could give good speeches but doesn't know a thing about policy.

Obama did no favors for himself with his wishy-washy "above my pay grade" (like he's ever had a pay grade) answers at Saddleback where he played right into the narrative McCain has been creating about Obama.

You do realize that the reason it's "wishy-washy" is that EVEN THE POPE WON'T SAY WHEN LIFE BEGINS.

If that's not a sign that a Presidential candidate should really be able to say when life begins, I don't know what is.:lol

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Well, it did have an impact. The important question, though, is will that narrative carry on through November?

pretty much. Mccain's shooting his load early.

 

[UltimaKilo]

WTF? CNN is reporting that Gen. Wes Clark is being snubbed from the convention? Anyone have any news on this?

 

[siamesedreamer]

Eh, by doing the same thing he's been doing, by attacking him for being the WRONG policies over the years. He actually hasn't really attacked McCain too much for being a career politician in the past month or so, just for being more Bush.

I see an add at least twice a night where he starts off with something like "McCain has been in Washington 26 years". Don't know the name of it. Maybe someone can find it on Youtube or something.

 

[JayDubya]

You do realize that the reason it's "wishy-washy" is that EVEN THE POPE WON'T SAY WHEN LIFE BEGINS.

Then the pope is retarded. Biological science has a clear answer.

Also, couple Stanek's story with Paul's residency horror story and the picture is pretty clear about where the "pro-choice" states' morality lies. Unwanted means not not human, not even after birth.

 

[Lemonz]

Obama townhall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1

 

[UltimaKilo]

Then the pope is retarded. Biological science has a clear answer.

The Pope is a master pianist! Take it back! :lol

The Pope should hold an open concerto at the Vatican, starring himself.

 

[maynerd]

Yes.

It was part of a campaign to shape Obama as an empty suit who could give good speeches but doesn't know a thing about policy.

Obama did no favors for himself with his wishy-washy "above my pay grade" (like he's ever had a pay grade) answers at Saddleback where he played right into the narrative McCain has been creating about Obama.

Too bad that campaign is built on lies.

 

[Cheebs]

WTF? CNN is reporting that Gen. Wes Clark is being snubbed from the convention? Anyone have any news on this?

Kinda old. Last week Clark said he was not invited to the convention.

 

[Tamanon]

WTF? CNN is reporting that Gen. Wes Clark is being snubbed from the convention? Anyone have any news on this?

Someone from Clark's office told a reporter that Clark wasn't going to be there and said "there's no reason for it". Nobody else has said anything to that effect, unless it's new.

 

[Cheebs]

Someone from Clark's office told a reporter that Clark wasn't going to be there and said "there's no reason for it". Nobody else has said anything to that effect, unless it's new.

His son posted on DailyKos saying his dad was not vetted and wont be at the convention.

 

[UltimaKilo]

But is Gen. Clark campaigning for Obama?

 

[Tamanon]

But is Gen. Clark campaigning for Obama?

I don't think he ever was, he's appeared generally as a Democratic strategist, not as a surrogate. It's weird.

 

[Cheebs]

I don't think he ever was, he's appeared generally as a Democratic strategist, not as a surrogate. It's weird.

I've gotten the impression the Obama campaign really doesn't like him much. It makes sense. Clark is a Clintonista. Obama only deals with Clintonista's when he has too. Bayh was like the ONLY one he really seemed to grow to like. But Bayh really wasn't that excited of a Clinton supporter, he was kinda passive during the whole thing.

 

[Tamanon]

Then the pope is retarded. Biological science has a clear answer.

Also, couple Stanek's story with Paul's residency horror story and the picture is pretty clear about where the "pro-choice" states' morality lies. Unwanted means not not human, not even after birth.

Here's the main reason I don't buy Stanek's story.

"Faithful condom users die"

 

[siamesedreamer]

Too bad that campaign is built on lies.

No shit...

 

[Cheebs]

I am watching Mark Warner's intro speech at the Obama townhall right now, Warner is damn good. He'll give a great speech at the convention.

 

[maynerd]

No shit...

Not sure what that has to do with those celebrity commercials, but ok.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Veep Sheet: Kaine and Obama meet tonight

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080820/pl_politico/12659

After a day of campaigning in Virginia, Barack Obama is overnighting in Richmond tonight as the guest of Gov. Tim Kaine, Politico has learned from Old Dominion sources.

So, is it a consolation prize for the young veep hopeful, or a warmup act for one of the biggest buddy acts in presidential history?

According to Newsweek's Howard Fineman, the prospects will know soon: They've been asked where they can be reached tomorrow afternoon.

With the political press corps on hair-trigger alert, Bill Burton, the Obama campaign's puckish national press secretary, sent reporters an e-mail Wednesday morning with the subject line, "Vice Presidential ..."

argh..

 

[Tamanon]

LOL, Bill Burton is title-trolling the press now.

 

[Cheebs]

Veep Sheet: Kaine and Obama meet tonight

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080820/pl_politico/12659

argh..

It could be to tell him he isnt it. THe top 3 will all get spoken to personally by Obama Todd says.