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[typhonsentra]

No shit...

Obama says "I don't accept money from lobbyists", reporters find a few examples that got through. Obama then proceeds to give the money back.

Now if anyone's even involved in his campaign that's a lobbyists that makes him a liar too?

 

[Tamanon]

I wll say this though, Biden would still be leagues better than Evan Bayh as a pick. While Bayh might match the "change" message, he's just an awful idealogical fit.

 

[Odrion]

How would having Biden as veep turn the democratics into a successful attack machine?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

How would having Biden as veep turn the democratics into a successful attack machine?

I guess with the experience angle.

 

[Cheebs]

How would having Biden as veep turn the democratics into a successful attack machine?

Joe Biden is considered one of the best attack dogs in the senate. When they have to do hearings with potential judges or army generals...etc Biden tends to be the toughest and hardest hitting guy every time.

 

[TDG]

I think it's time to start asking some serious questions about how the "change and hope" message is doing. Let's face it, that's a good primary message, but the general election is about assuring people, making them feel safe, etc.

Considering just about ever poll shows that the lack of experience is Obama's biggest problem, and that Iraq is not a big issue, it seems like blind stupidity (and being okay with losing the election) to not want someone like Biden or Bayh to be the running mate based on their experience and Iraq war vote.

 

[Tamanon]

I get Odrion's point. There's not a cadre of Obama surrogates out there with the same talking points about McCain. It's all disparate, scatter-shot. The Republican surrogates are all on one unified message. I think it's just because it's before the conventions so they haven't really announced the messaging campaign, but the GOP does have a better plan of surrogacy.

 

[APF]

Is Biden really Obama's choice to represent the future of America? VP picks aren't "right-hand men," they're, "this is the guy who should take up the reigns when my eight years are up."

 

[Cheebs]

Is Biden really Obama's choice to represent the future of America? VP picks aren't "right-hand men," they're, "this is the guy who should take up the reigns when my eight years are up."

Dick Cheney seemed to have changed that image somewhat. Bush picked Cheney because Bush didn't have much experience and wanted to reassure people, Biden is the same type of thing.

 

[maximum360]

It's also funny that the pundits were all obsessing over Obama not taking public financing declaring that it's unfair for Obama to have the financial advantage and making the point that 527s will not take part in this election. Now that McCain is outspending Obama due to the RNC's big pockets and McCain's decent haul, it's all quiet.

 

[Odrion]

We still need you to believe McCain is going to win Cheebs.

Joe Biden is considered one of the best attack dogs in the senate. When they have to do hearings with potential judges or army generals...etc Biden tends to be the toughest and hardest hitting guy every time.

Some cool speeches on youtube are not going to help the Democrats paint McCain as a bad leader.

 

[APF]

Dick Cheney seemed to have changed that image somewhat. Bush picked Cheney because Bush didn't have much experience and wanted to reassure people, Biden is the same type of thing.

This also only works because Cheney didn't want to be President, something you can't say about Biden.

 

[polyh3dron]

If the audience wasn't so friendly to McCain, it would have looked like Sony E3 2006.

RIIIDGE RACER = Follow Bin Laden to the gatez of HELL

Giant Enemy Crabs = Cross in the sand lol

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Joe Biden is considered one of the best attack dogs in the senate. When they have to do hearings with potential judges or army generals...etc Biden tends to be the toughest and hardest hitting guy every time.

Biden seems to talk first, think later

Not good for a close race like this... any little slip up and your ass is out!

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensm...mas_judgment_not_his_patriotism.html#comments

McCain, in prepared remarks for a New Mexico event, keeps hammering the surge, and responds directly to Obama's charge that he was questioning the Illinois Senator's patriotism:

Yesterday, Senator Obama got a little testy on this issue. He said that I am questioning his patriotism. Let me be clear: I am not questioning his patriotism; I am questioning his judgment. Senator Obama has made it clear that he values withdrawal from Iraq above victory in Iraq, even today with victory in sight. Over and over again, he has advocated unconditional withdrawal – regardless of the facts on the ground. And he voted against funding for troops in combat, after saying it would be wrong to do so. He has made these decisions not because he doesn't love America, but because he doesn't seem to understand the consequences of an American defeat in Iraq, how it would risk a wider war and threaten the security of American families. I am going to end this war, but when I bring our troops home, they will come home with honor and victory, leaving Iraq secured as a democratic ally in the Arab heartland.

Obama was referring to Mccain's charge that he "would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign."

His campaign also circulated Joe Lieberman's charge that the race is between "one candidate, John McCain, who has always put the country first, worked across party lines to get things done, and one candidate who has not.’’

I dunno, it's annoying to see people actually eat up that you can say "I am not challenging my opponent's patriotism!" and then say "My opponent would put himself before his country!"

Oh yeah, and it seems that the whole preaching of running a clean and upbeat campaign and then doing the exact opposite hasn't hurt McCain in the press, so myabe Obama can afford to lower the dosage of Hopium.

 

[speculawyer]

It's also funny that the pundits were all obsessing over Obama not taking public financing declaring that it's unfair for Obama to have the financial advantage and making the point that 527s will not take part in this election. Now that McCain is outspending Obama due to the RNC's big pockets and McCain's decent haul, it's all quiet.

Very true. Not only that, but this new concept of combining the party's cash with the presidential candidate's cash has made a total mockery out of campaign finance laws. (Hey, wasn't that one of your big issues, Mr. Flip McCain?)

The campaign finance laws limit contributions to presidential candidates to some $2400 (I don't remember the exact number). The theory is that if you are able give lots more, you are basically bribing the candidate so the candidate will then implement your agenda. Well, now individual donors can effectively donate something like $30,000 (Again, I don't know the exact number) to the candidate by giving like $2400 to the candidate directly and $26,000 to the party (which will spend it on the prez candidate).

So even though it appears that Obama leads in fund raising, McCain is actually doing just as well. McCain just has lots of zillionaires that are donating $30,000 each (or more like $60,000 as a married couple).

 

[Kildace]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensm...mas_judgment_not_his_patriotism.html#comments

I dunno, it's annoying to see people actually eat up that you can say "I am not challenging my opponent's patriotism!" and then say "My opponent would put himself before his country!"

The guy who voted in favour of the Iraq war tells Obama that he has bad judgement. I can't believe that he's going to get away with that.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I've gotten the impression the Obama campaign really doesn't like him much. It makes sense. Clark is a Clintonista. Obama only deals with Clintonista's when he has too. Bayh was like the ONLY one he really seemed to grow to like. But Bayh really wasn't that excited of a Clinton supporter, he was kinda passive during the whole thing.

I'd rather lose with someone I like then to win with someone I couldn't govern with.

 

[Tamanon]

I'd rather lose with someone I like then to win with someone I couldn't govern with.

Eh, I dunno, I'd rather win then get in a war with Iran/Russia. Any other year, I'm with ya.

 

[TDG]

I'd rather lose with someone I like then to win with someone I couldn't govern with.

That's a really, really silly attitude.

 

[JayDubya]

The campaign finance laws limit contributions to presidential candidates to some $2400.

Those laws are bullshit, by the way.

Of course, McCain supported them. :lol

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

That's a really, really silly attitude.

You don't get it do you?.... nothing will be accomplish either way.. but one will waste your life for 4 years.

 

[Drek]

Zogby has a history of outrageous poll fuckups. McCain up by 5 nationally probably makes sense but I doubt he's ahead of Obama on the economy. That being said it really seems like the GOP in general is killing the democrats on drilling, and people are responding. The "gas holiday" bullshit died pretty fast but this is still dominating attention, and swing states are buying in. Obama's lead in Ohio is gone, McCain has widened his Indiana lead, he's tied things up in Virginia, and things are pretty damn tight in Colorado.

Zogby was on Potus '08 on XM today (he's on at least once a week with Waltherman).

The poll with a 5 point gap is "likely voters". A method of discounting young and minority voters because their turnouts typically don't hold up.

At this point though this is a major misnomer. It was a huge part of why many of Zogby's primary polls were very off, as Obama gets minority and youth turnout at an exceptional rate.

I can't help but think the democratic party is somehow involved in this new wave of polling presentations. Nearly all are "likely voters" which are weighted against two of Obama's biggest bases, and unlike several months ago they are now not accompanied with the actual national numbers or even the outright caveat of "likely voters" attached, instead you have to read the fine print to get that info.

Why would they do that? Because it is very hard for Obama to preach the "Change" message when he's a favorite. If McCain becomes the "front runner" again he can re-energize his support base from the primaries, expand it, and bring the "Change" push back with full force right when it matters most.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Eh, I dunno, I'd rather win then get in a war with Iran/Russia.

Yea right! :lol

 

[scorcho]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

This, of course, is not the whole story. Invoking pragmatism doesn’t help the average voter much; ideology, though it often gets a bad name, matters, because it offers insight into how a candidate might actually behave as president. I have spent much of this year trying to get a handle on what is sometimes called Obamanomics and have come away thinking that Obama does have an economic ideology. It’s just not a completely familiar one. Depending on how you look at it, he is both more left-wing and more right-wing than many people realize.

is it usual for the NYT to pimp its featured magazine piece on Wednesday? it's timed just perfectly in light of the Zogby poll.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Zogby was on Potus '08 on XM today (he's on at least once a week with Waltherman).

The poll with a 5 point gap is "likely voters". A method of discounting young and minority voters because their turnouts typically don't hold up.

Ah. Should be heavily discounted then.

 

[jobber]

ugh

Mark Warner fuckin sucks

Why is he even at this meeting

 

[TDG]

You don't get it do you?.... nothing will be accomplish either way.. but one will waste your life for 4 years.

It's a silly premise anyway... what exactly tells you that Obama won't be able to govern with anybody but Sebelius? And have you listened to any of Obama's speeches? He WANTS a veep who can disagree with him, and who won't just be a yes man.

 

[Fatalah]

More and more I believe that Hillary needs to be chosen as the VP. She is the necessary choice to strengthen Obama's cause in smalltown America.

I just read that Leiberman is going to be speaking at the GOP convention.

Ya need Hillary dude, ya need her.

 

[Eric P]

speaking of obama and the economy

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html?pagewanted=print

How Obama Reconciles Dueling Views on Economy

 

[schuelma]

Giuliani keynoting the GOP convention


Sounds like the GOP will be trying to repeat the 04 convention.

 

[kkaabboomm]

Giuliani keynoting the GOP convention


Sounds like the GOP will be trying to repeat the 04 convention.

Mr. Noun, Verb & 9/11? sweetness! I was hoping he'd come back and get in the prime spotlight again, because honestly, he was one of my favorites. His complete inability to win or gain traction despite his universal name recognition always impressed me, as well as his ability to blow through $55 million and the love of the entire FOX network for 3rd place in Florida. Truly a top-notch campaigner, manager of his campaign, leader, and all around good guy to spotlight again

 

[mrmyth]

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones had an aneuryism.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g5atlJ9I4IGbTPQB-hNQA0uwlyPQD92M4GMG9

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

It's a silly premise anyway... what exactly tells you that Obama won't be able to govern with anybody but Sebelius? yes man.

Who said anything about Sebelius? your reading too much into it knucklehead.

And have you listened to any of Obama's speeches? He WANTS a veep who can disagree with him, and who won't just be a yes man.

Which describes a lot of people including Sebelius. She wasn't given America top Governor by agreeing with everything, lol

 

[schuelma]

Mr. Noun, Verb & 9/11? sweetness! I was hoping he'd come back and get in the prime spotlight again, because honestly, he was one of my favorites. His complete inability to win or gain traction despite his universal name recognition always impressed me, as well as his ability to blow through $55 million and the love of the entire FOX network for 3rd place in Florida. Truly a top-notch campaigner, manager of his campaign, leader, and all around good guy to spotlight again

Err...He was extremely effective in 04 and I would expect him to hit a similiar note this time around. Dems better hit McCain hard next week....

 

[Cheebs]

You don't get it do you?.... nothing will be accomplish either way.. but one will waste your life for 4 years.

How the hell does picking Biden mean Obama can't get anything done with a democratic senate and house backing him up?

You rather losing if you don't get the VP you want is absurd. Sometimes I think you like Selebius more than Obama. You praise and talk about her way more than Obama.

 

[Guileless]

You do realize that the reason it's "wishy-washy" is that EVEN THE POPE WON'T SAY WHEN LIFE BEGINS.

If that's not a sign that a Presidential candidate should really be able to say when life begins, I don't know what is.:lol

That's wrong. The official position of the Catholic Church is that life begins at conception and embryos have the same moral status as any other human person.

And what is your source that Illinois already had a law on the books? The information I have seen is that the state's attorney general released an official opinion that there was no law preventing hospitals from witholding treatment from babies who were born alive during an attempted abortion and allowing them to die, which made the law necessary in the first place.

 

[TDG]

Who said anything about Sebelius? your reading too much into it knucklehead.

Which describes a lot of people including Sebelius. She wasn't given America top Governor by agreeing with everything, lol

You still haven't explained how picking Biden will prevent Obama from being able to govern and accomplish anything...

 

[kkaabboomm]

Err...He was extremely effective in 04 and I would expect him to hit a similiar note this time around. Dems better hit McCain hard next week....

As was the entire GOP. The Iraq war was still 'new', the GOP was in charge of everything, they were quite bullish, etc/etc/etc. Since then, Giuliani has run for president and his public perception has changed drastically from "The Mayor of the US/Strength in a Time of Crisis" to "he got third in Floridia? huh, who knew?". That's the point I'm making, the GOP may be trying to repeat their 04 convention with their choice of speakers, but in this one specific case his national standing (and party standing for that matter) has been drastically altered from 04.

 

[speculawyer]

Those laws are bullshit, by the way.

Of course, McCain supported them. :lol

You don't think there should be some limits on preventing bribery?

I think your world would quickly devolve into a new feudal system.

 

[Cheebs]

You still haven't explained how picking Biden will prevent Obama from being able to govern and accomplish anything...

It makes no sense, Biden agrees with Obama on nearly every single issue I can think of. Both Biden and Obama are liberal leaning democrats, its just Biden has far more experience. How Biden will somehow prevent Obama from doing things makes no sense.

 

[thekad]

You don't think there should be some limits on preventing bribery?

I think your world would quickly devolve into a new feudal system.

You think he cares. :lol

 

[Frank the Great]

Interesting thought: Was Obama's recent decline in polls planned?

Think about it. McCain even admits that he performs best when in the underdog position. Obama took a week-long vacation, basically didn't say much about the Georgia crisis, and let McCain hammer him while he was gone.

Further, the next two weeks will be Obamamania, what with the VP announcement and the convention and all that.

Could the Obama campaign knowingly have taken a fall in the polls, knowing that he would make a roaring comeback soon? It will only make the "bounce" at the end of the convention even bigger, and at a time when the party is supposed to feel unified and fired up about the general, a bigger bounce is always better. Also, this prevents McCain from going into his convention as the clear underdog.

The release of all these polls focusing on "likely voters" heavily skewed against Obama's demographics reinforces this idea, assuming the O campaign has something to do with the release of these numbers ;-)

Just a thought.

 

[schuelma]

As was the entire GOP. The Iraq war was still 'new', the GOP was in charge of everything, they were quite bullish, etc/etc/etc. Since then, Giuliani has run for president and his public perception has changed drastically from "The Mayor of the US/Strength in a Time of Crisis" to "he got third in Floridia? huh, who knew?". That's the point I'm making, the GOP may be trying to repeat their 04 convention with their choice of speakers, but in this one specific case his national standing (and party standing for that matter) has been drastically altered from 04.

I agree his stature might have been reduced since then, but he'll still be effective at hitting the notes that McCain wants him to hit. While a lot has certainly changed, polls still show a national security gap, and Guiliani will be trying to exploit that.

 

[JayDubya]

You don't think there should be some limits on preventing bribery?

I think your world would quickly devolve into a new feudal system.

Bribes are one thing.

Donations to a cause you agree with is another, and ultimately, it's their money to give to whom they want, and there's no obligation of anyone who takes the donation to listen to the person giving it.

 

[Cheebs]

This also only works because Cheney didn't want to be President, something you can't say about Biden.

Biden will be 73 in 8 years, I highly doubt if Obama won two terms Biden would run at that age.

 

[TDG]

It makes no sense, Biden agrees with Obama on nearly every single issue I can think of. Both Biden and Obama are liberal leaning democrats, its just Biden has far more experience. How Biden will somehow prevent Obama from doing things makes no sense.

Exactly. I'm not really sure what DEM is trying to say here.

 

[Frank the Great]

You don't think there should be some limits on preventing bribery?

I think your world would quickly devolve into a new feudal system.

The entire point of a completely unregulated free market is to make the rich richer while keeping the poor poor. Where have you been, this is what libertarians want.

 

[Cheebs]

Exactly. I'm not really sure what DEM is trying to say here.

It confuses me as well. He has said it multiple times. It's like he rather lose if he can't get Selebius. It's like the PUMA of VP's lol

 

[Clevinger]

Oh yeah, and it seems that the whole preaching of running a clean and upbeat campaign and then doing the exact opposite hasn't hurt McCain in the press, so myabe Obama can afford to lower the dosage of Hopium.

I'm sorry, but Obama wasn't a POW.