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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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C

Cheebs

Member
The Lamonster said:
:lol

McCain's a wuss. He should just concede right now.
Click to expand...
eh? It was equal rejection on both sides. Obama rejected McCain's town hall proposal and McCain rejected Obama's debate proposal. Both refuse to do eachothers appearance ideas.

The idea of these two appearing together this summer has more or less died with the dual rejection this morning.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Cheebs said:
McCain's team rejects Obama's counter proposal to his town hall meetings (Obama team's counter proposal was more debates, not town hall settings). McCain said he will continue doing the town halls by himself instead until Obama agrees to the town hall setting, which Obama's team rejected in their counter proposal.
Click to expand...

related:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/mccain-stacks-fox-news-to_n_106881.html

Tonight was the first in a much-hyped series of 'town hall' forums scheduled by John McCain's campaign, in which Barack Obama had been challenged to show up to discuss the issues directly with the GOP nominee.

Except, as Fox News reported, McCain's campaign misled the public about the nature of the event. The forum was "billed by the McCain campaign as a town hall with independent and Democratic voters," but Fox News noted at the end that the audience was actually "made up of invited guests and supporters," the Democratic National Committee said in a statement.
Click to expand...

McCain kinda tried to ambush him with plants.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Cheebs said:
eh? It was equal rejection on both sides. Obama rejected McCain's town hall proposal and McCain rejected Obama's debate proposal. Both refuse to do eachothers appearance ideas.

The idea of these two appearing together this summer has more or less died with the dual rejection this morning.
Click to expand...

But I honestly thought that the Obama team agreed to the town hall meetings.
 
U

User 10639

Member
thekad said:
Looks like McCain is allying himself with Justice Roberts and against the Constitution with that Supreme Court decision yesterday. Should be fun.
Click to expand...
Fun, but essentially meaningless. This isn't really an effective wedge issue like Roe v. Wade (or, back in the good ol' days, Miranda v. AZ.) The President already has most popular opinion against him, so I can't imagine that siding with yet another Bush policy (the man himself came out as disagreeing yesterday, surprising no one) is going to be effective for McCain.

Then again, that's probably a good thing. So yay for the McCain camp's continued policy of driving itself into the ground!
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
But I honestly thought that the Obama team agreed to the town hall meetings.
Click to expand...

They did, just not the terms McCain proposed. In fact, for all this talk about Obama not showing up at this last one, McCain's camp also shot down the town hall because it wasn't being broadcast on all networks. But then he still went through with it because FOX offered to broadcast it and his campaign could staff it with only McCain supporters.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Tamanon said:
They did, just not the terms McCain proposed. In fact, for all this talk about Obama not showing up at this last one, McCain's camp also shot down the town hall because it wasn't being broadcast on all networks. But then he still went through with it because FOX offered to broadcast it and his campaign could staff it with only McCain supporters.
Click to expand...
Bingo. It's becoming clear - or rather, MORE clear - that this was not a genuine invitation but a PR move. He's not interested in having an honest debate and negotiate the format, he wants a platform to attack Obama on.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Cheebs said:
eh? It was equal rejection on both sides. Obama rejected McCain's town hall proposal and McCain rejected Obama's debate proposal. Both refuse to do eachothers appearance ideas.

The idea of these two appearing together this summer has more or less died with the dual rejection this morning.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying the debate style takes more balls. Cushy town halls like last night are easy.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
mckmas8808 said:
But I honestly thought that the Obama team agreed to the town hall meetings.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. He said the idea was good but wanted to come up with his own proposal first. Which he did. And neither side could agree with each others proposal so the summer town hall event idea is now more or less dead
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
So basically McCain was trying to cheat? Is he scared of Obama or something?
Click to expand...

Well he is an old white guy. If there's one thing the constant parsing of exit polls has taught me, Obama scares these people!
 
Stantron

Stantron

Member
Can someone please explain to me what the fundamental difference is between a formal debate and a town hall debate? It seems to me that they both allow the candidates to talk back and forth together about the issue. Maybe it's that the town halls are less structured, but if McCain is going to attack Obama, how would the setting make any difference?
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Stantron said:
Can someone please explain to me what the fundamental difference is between a formal debate and a town hall debate? It seems to me that they both allow the candidates to talk back and forth together about the issue. Maybe it's that the town halls are less structured, but if McCain is going to attack Obama, how would the setting make any difference?
Click to expand...

In a town hall, theoretically you don't know the questions. In a debate you may not know the questions, but you have a general idea of most things that a newscaster would ask. In a town hall it could be anything.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Stantron said:
Can someone please explain to me what the fundamental difference is between a formal debate and a town hall debate? It seems to me that they both allow the candidates to talk back and forth together about the issue. Maybe it's that the town halls are less structured, but if McCain is going to attack Obama, how would the setting make any difference?
Click to expand...

In a debate a moderator would ask the questions, or most of them, and they're usually at least semi-competent journalists.

A town hall is where the audience asks the questions, which in this case would mostly be made up of McCain supporters.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Clevinger said:
In a debate a moderator would ask the questions, or most of them, and they're usually at least semi-competent journalists.

A town hall is where the audience asks the questions, which in this case would mostly be made up of McCain supporters.
Click to expand...
"Senator-Bama: I'm not questioning your patriotism, but do you believe in the American flag??"

041708americanflag.jpg


durrrrrrrrrrrr
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
OK, so apparently McCain's camp offered 1 town hall every week until the convention. The Obama camp offered back 2 to start with and the McCain camp refused. Thus it's dead.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Tamanon said:
OK, so apparently McCain's camp offered 1 town hall every week until the convention. The Obama camp offered back 2 to start with and the McCain camp refused. Thus it's now a McCain talking point making Obama look like a scared politician.
Click to expand...

Fixed.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
maynerd said:
I'm glad that people are calling McSame on his BS about Obama's tax cuts/increases.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25133125/
Click to expand...


From that article.

. Mr. Irons said that “the important thing is to look at overall impact on people” and that on this score, “the vast majority of the population, almost the entirety of the middle class, would see more from Obama than McCain.”
Click to expand...

So should Obama make this quote into a commerical Gaf?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
This is a good move. A very, very good move.

Obama Campaign Sending Their Star Iowa Organizer Into Virginia

Here's as good an indication as any that the Obama campaign is dead serious about trying to put Virginia in play.

The campaign says that they're sending Mitch Stewart, one of Obama's star organizers, into the state to serve as Virginia's state director. This is no small thing. Stewart served as Obama's Iowa caucus director, where he was in charge of the whole field effort, pulling off a major coup and helping deliver the victory that essentially put Obama on track to victory.

Stewart served as Tom Daschle's field director in 2004 and was regional director for John Edwards in Iowa in 2003.

Virginia will be a very interesting state to watch this fall.
Click to expand...
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/obama_campaign_sending_their_s.php

Iowa is solidly in Obama's column at this point. If he flips Virginia, and no other states, while holding onto the states Kerry won, he gets 272 electoral votes and wins.

mckmas8808 said:
From that article.

So should Obama make this quote into a commerical Gaf?
Click to expand...
Nice. I've seen a lot of analysis showing how Obama's tax plan stacks up to McCain's - and how McCain's portrayal of Obama's is fundamentally dishonest.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
McCain's trying to neuter Obama by forcing him into an excessive number of town hall forums that don't exactly work to Obama's advantages. Obama's better on the stump and, one would assume, the Lincoln-Douglas debates that are a bit more rhetorical.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
scorcho said:
McCain's trying to neuter Obama by forcing him into an excessive number of town hall forums that don't exactly work to Obama's advantages. Obama's better on the stump and, one would assume, the Lincoln-Douglas debates that are a bit more rhetorical.
Click to expand...

Everyone is saying McCain has the edge in this "town hall" format, but honestly, I don't see McCain having an advantage in ANY venue that involves speaking to an audience.

This may be one of the few times where Obama is going into a contest where low expectations work in his favor.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
I think, rather than the presidency, McCain is hoping for the record of "most contradictory statements made by a politician in a decade ever".
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Didn't McCain just say tht today? :lol
The internet is fast.

Is McCain trying to lose? Or is this some kind of Ali rope-a-dope trick against obama?
Click to expand...
Yeah. Here's the post I saw this in:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200055.php

In the post below I noted how John McCain is now going in for the same Social Security 'privatization' bamboozlement that President Bush did, claiming that calling his policy 'privatization' is some sort of lie or spin.

Here's video of McCain using the word himself in 2004 and then claiming it's all a bum rap just this morning. For more ins and outs of the policy and terminology issues, see the post below. To take the McCain flimflam straight up, no chaser, watch the vid ...
Click to expand...
The internet is not McCain's friend.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
theBishop said:
Everyone is saying McCain has the edge in this "town hall" format, but honestly, I don't see McCain having an advantage in ANY venue that involves speaking to an audience.

This may be one of the few times where Obama is going into a contest where low expectations work in his favor.
Click to expand...

The only reason people say that is because that's McCain best venue as far as speaking is concerned.

The MSM doesn't want to give too much praise to Obama. They want it too look a little bit more even than it actually is.

That gets more people to watch and that raises rating. If Obama was a shoe in then it would be boring and most people wouldn't even tune in day to day
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Some good news for Obamagafers.

here is the NBC/WSJ poll for 2004. Kerry never led, Bush's biggest lead was 4.

Obama is up 6. Obviously a lot can happen, but right now, Obama is looking real good.

March (Mar.6-8): Bush 46%, Kerry 43%, Nader 5%
May (May 1-3): Bush 46%, Kerry 42%, Nader 5%
June (June 25-28): Bush 45%, Kerry 44%, Nader 4%
July (July 19-21): Bush 47%, Kerry 45%, Nader 2%
August (Aug.23-25): Bush 47%, Kerry 45%, Nader 3%
September (Sept.17-19): Bush 48%, Kerry 45%, Nader 2%
Mid October (Oct.16-18): Bush 48%, Kerry 46%, Nader 2%
Late October (Oct.29-31): Bush 48%, Kerry 47%, Nader 1%
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
StoOgE said:
Some good news for Obamagafers.

here is the NBC/WSJ poll for 2004. Kerry never led, Bush's biggest lead was 4.

Obama is up 6. Obviously a lot can happen, but right now, Obama is looking real good.

March (Mar.6-8): Bush 46%, Kerry 43%, Nader 5%
May (May 1-3): Bush 46%, Kerry 42%, Nader 5%
June (June 25-28): Bush 45%, Kerry 44%, Nader 4%
July (July 19-21): Bush 47%, Kerry 45%, Nader 2%
August (Aug.23-25): Bush 47%, Kerry 45%, Nader 3%
September (Sept.17-19): Bush 48%, Kerry 45%, Nader 2%
Mid October (Oct.16-18): Bush 48%, Kerry 46%, Nader 2%
Late October (Oct.29-31): Bush 48%, Kerry 47%, Nader 1%
Click to expand...
OLD and also AWESOME
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
The Lamonster said:
OLD and also AWESOME
Click to expand...

well, its from yesterday. but it was in Dailykos's midday thread, so I figured I would post it.. but it shows how well things are going.

More importantly is the fact that democratic leaning states are starting to turn as strong dem states. meaning Obama can move his campaign director from Iowa into Virgina, doesnt have to spend time or money in WA, OR or WI.

Meanwhile, Ohio and Penn are now leaning democrat instead of being true swing states..

and several leaning republican states (NC, VA, NV) are now swing states..

and even better, several leaning republican states (NM, CO) jumped all the way over to leaning dem.

Everything is looking solid for Obama right now, very solid. McCain is going to be spending alot of time and money (that he doesnt have) trying to defend "his turf". Obama is on the offensive when it comes to the states he can focus on, and McCain is clearly in the defensive when it comes to the states he is being forced to focus on.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
Just got this e-mail from a co-worker:

I RECEIVED THIS, AND NOW I AM MORE CONFUSED THAN I WAS
> BEFORE ....
> LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THIS STRAIGHT:
>
> HIS FATHER WAS A KENYAN, MUSLIM, BLACK - WE HAVE SEEN
> PICTURES OF HIS 'AFRICAN FAMILY'
>
> HIS MOTHER IS A KANSAN, ATHEIST, WHITE -
>
> WHERE ARE THE PICTURES OF HIS KANSAN, WHITE MOTHER
> AND HIS WHITE GRANDPARENTS WHO RAISED HIM?
>
> HIS FATHER DESERTED HIS MOTHER AND HIM WHEN HE WAS VERY
> YOUNG
> AND WENT BACK TO HIS FAMILY (WHOSE FAMILY ?) IN KENYA ?
>
> HIS MOTHER MARRIED AN INDONESIAN MUSLIM AND TOOK HIM TO
> JAKARTA WHERE HE WAS SCHOOLED IN A MUSLIM SCHOOL
>
> HIS MOTHER RETURNED TO HAWAII AND HE WAS RAISED BY HIS
> WHITE KANSAN GRANDPARENTS ?WHEN ?
>
> HE LATER WENT TO THE BEST HIGH DOLLAR SCHOOLS, HOW?
>
> HE LIVES IN A $1.4 MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE THAT HE ACQUIRED
> THROUGH A DEAL WITH A WEALTHY FUND RAISER.... HOW?
>
> HE 'WORKED' AS A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST IN CHICAGO -
> HAS NEVER HELD A PRODUCTIVE JOB.
>
> THE PRESIDENCY IS NOT A CIVIL RIGHTS POST, NOR IS IT
> SUBJECT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SET ASIDES
>
> HE ENTERED POLITICS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THEN THE
> NATIONAL LEVEL,  WHERE HE HAS MINIMAL EXPERIENCE
>
> HE IS PROUD OF HIS 'AFRICAN HERITAGE'
>
> BUT IT SEEMS THAT HIS ONLY AFRICAN CONNECTION WAS THAT HIS
> AFRICAN FATHER GOT A WHITE GIRL PREGNANT AND DESERTED HER.
>
> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SPERM CARRIED A 'CULTURAL'
> GENE.
>
> WHERE IS THE PRIDE IN HIS WHITE CULTURE?
>
> HE GOES TO A 'AFROCENTRIC' CHURCH THAT HATES
> WHITES, HATES JEWS,  AND BLAMES AMERICA FOR ALL
> THE WORLD'S PERCEIVED FAULTS AND THEN REPEATEDLY COVERS
> UP FOR THE PASTOR AND THE CHURCH
>
> HE CLAIMS THAT HE COULD NOT CONFRONT HIS PASTOR 
> BUT HE WANTS US TO BELIEVE THAT HE CAN CONFRONT NORTH KOREA
> AND IRAN,
>
> YEAH, RIGHT!!!
>
> YEAH, I THINK I SEE HOW HE COULD BE A 'UNITER' AND
> BRING US TOGETHER,
>
> I THINK THE HOPE IS THAT HE HOPES NO ONE WILL PUT THE
> PIECES TOGETHER UNTIL AFTER THE 'ELECTION' .
>
> LIKE I SAID AT THE START, ' I AM CONFUSED !!!! '
>
> HOW ABOUT YOU ???
Click to expand...
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
StoOgE said:
well, its from yesterday. but it was in Dailykos's midday thread, so I figured I would post it.. but it shows how well things are going.

More importantly is the fact that democratic leaning states are starting to turn as strong dem states. meaning Obama can move his campaign director from Iowa into Virgina, doesnt have to spend time or money in WA, OR or WI.

Meanwhile, Ohio and Penn are now leaning democrat instead of being true swing states..

and several leaning republican states (NC, VA, NV) are now swing states..

and even better, several leaning republican states (NM, CO) jumped all the way over to leaning dem.

Everything is looking solid for Obama right now, very solid. McCain is going to be spending alot of time and money (that he doesnt have) trying to defend "his turf". Obama is on the offensive when it comes to the states he can focus on, and McCain is clearly in the defensive when it comes to the states he is being forced to focus on.
Click to expand...

I was thinking along those same lines this morning. States that should be safe - Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. are VERY safe with ~15% leads accross the board. States Obama needs to flip - Colorado, Iowa, Virginia, etc - are right where they need to be right now. It's a really, really good landscape.

Of course, his Gallup lead just dropped to three points. Wheee!

The Lamonster said:
Just got this e-mail from a co-worker:
Click to expand...
You know what to do. Send him a certain website - and copy everyone on the chain.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
GhaleonEB said:
You know what to do. Send him a certain website - and copy everyone on the chain.
Click to expand...
I certainly would - except he likes Obama and was just fwd'ing me what one of his relatives sent him. I suggested he respond and link to the smears site - hopefully he will.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
GhaleonEB said:
Of course, his Gallup lead just dropped to three points. Wheee!
.
Click to expand...

There are reasons MSM dont quote daily tracking, especially now that its a three day tracking poll. Didnt it show him up HUGE a few days ago? I would be happier if he had a jumbo lead, but Im not worried.

Survey USA and Rass is where I put my faith, I think the robopolls are actually much much better than the humans. More calls are maid and the computer cant "influence" (or fake) results.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
StoOgE said:
There are reasons MSM dont quote daily tracking, especially now that its a three day tracking poll. Didnt it show him up HUGE a few days ago? I would be happier if he had a jumbo lead, but Im not worried.

Survey USA and Rass is where I put my faith, I think the robopolls are actually much much better than the humans. More calls are maid and the computer cant "influence" (or fake) results.
Click to expand...
And the tracking polls bounce around on the news of the day. He spiked right after Clinton endorsed and he got the nomination locked up. And just had two bad news cycles on the Jim Johnson fiasco. If anything, it's interesting to watch it float along with the news cycles, but nothing to get worked up about either way.
 
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