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PoliGAF Thread of Republican's Turn at Conventions (Palin VP - READ OP)

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Gaborn said:
Blue Jihad - Just because some straight couples have shit up the institution of marriage does not mean gay couples don't want the dignity and recognition it DOES hold for many people. People often dream about getting married throughout their childhood, it STILL has power to many people, and it's still an important concept.

Look, I support gay marriage but this isn't how you argue for it. You need to avoid using phrases like "dignity of marriage." "_______ of marriage" is why people were able to punch so many holes in the Republican anti-gay marriage propaganda. Because on the national, visible, large scale, there is no sanctity of marriage, and there is no dignity of marriage.

We have continually televised bitter divorce proceedings. McCain even divorced his first wife, even after she'd waited for him for years. John Edwards cheated on his wife. Palin's daughter getting married because of the pregnancy cheapens the notion of marriage.

What you need to be arguing from is the "separate but equal" platform. That's your strongest case for this, because this is a matter of civil rights. Just as "separate but equal" was deemed unconstitutional previously, it can be deemed unconstitutional now under largely the same argument.

And further, the parallels are extraordinary. The same argument being made to invalidate gay marriage was the same argument made to invalidate interracial marriages earlier in the 20th century.

Ignore the notion of "_______ of marriage." It's a nebulous phrase that means nothing and it's incredibly difficult to draw real-world examples for it.

Paralleling the civil rights movement or African-Americans, on the other hand? It's a historical basis. It's a concrete comparison. It's a relevant comparison. And it's a clear comparison.
 

TDG

Banned
Xisiqomelir said:
Except you really can't make this case because Palinwreck has been 100% about scandals since she's only done a serious job for 1 yr + change. Our girl Kate is on her second term already, after serving in state legislature since the 80s.
Sebelius is still fairly unknown, being Gov. of Kansas is still not really anything important, and her exploits have gone un-noticed. And again, part of it is the media being caught with their pants down... they don't like that. They would've done epic digging on Sebelius (and probably Clark, for that matter.)
 

GhaleonEB

Member
VanMardigan said:
So Obama's speech was seen by 40 million? How many will McCain get? Also, what were Biden's numbers, and will Palin eclipse that?

I think it'll be very interesting to see how Palin affects viewership.
Your post inspired me. So I did some quick googling on the viewers for each night:

ConventionViewers.jpg


Will update each day. Should be fun.
 
Gaborn said:
wow, smear machine cometh! seriously, have you never heard of Lawrence v. Texas? If they decide laws currently against gays are constitutional that's maintaining the status quo on gay rights which is a lot less harmful than "moving forward" into a dead end of 95% equality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Decision
The Supreme Court voted 6-3 to strike down the Texas law, with five of the justices holding that it violated due process guarantees, and a sixth justice, Sandra Day O'Connor, finding that it violated equal protection guarantees. The majority opinion, which overrules Bowers v. Hardwick, covers similar laws in 12 other states. Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion; Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer joined.


McCain said he would have never nominated Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/

Yes, and I am also very familiar with Bowers v. Hardwick. The Texas case where the justices that McCain likes said it was legal for Texas to outlaw sodomy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowers_v._hardwick#Decision
The majority opinion by Justice White was joined by Chief Justice Burger and Justices Lewis F. Powell, Jr., William H. Rehnquist and Sandra Day O'Connor. Justice Powell and Chief Justice Burger also wrote separate concurring opinions. Justices William J. Brennan, Thurgood Marshall and John Paul Stevens joined Justice Blackmun's dissenting opinion. In addition, Justice Stevens wrote his own dissenting opinion, which was joined by Justices Brennan and Marshall.


Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Really?

Things will not be status quo . . . they will move backwards.
 

3rdman

Member
I was going to suggest making a drinking game from all the people of color we see at the RNC, but I'm afraid I'd stay sober. :(
 

Iksenpets

Banned
tanod said:
As mayor of her small town of 6,700 people, she hired a lobbying firm to lobby Congress and received $27 million dollars in funding. After her tenure as mayor, she then left the town with $20 million dollars in debt and she was almost recalled while in office. Also, said our fighting in Iraq is a mission from God.


Wow. I'm still waiting for the revelation that she took frequent vacations in the Alaskan wilderness to hunt Eskimo. I think that's the only way she could fall any further at this point.
 

Gaborn

Member
The Blue Jihad said:
Look, I support gay marriage but this isn't how you argue for it. You need to avoid using phrases like "dignity of marriage." "_______ of marriage" is why people were able to punch so many holes in the Republican anti-gay marriage propaganda. Because on the national, visible, large scale, there is no sanctity of marriage, and there is no dignity of marriage.

We have continually televised bitter divorce proceedings. McCain even divorced his first wife, even after she'd waited for him for years. John Edwards cheated on his wife. Palin's daughter getting married because of the pregnancy cheapens the notion of marriage.

What you need to be arguing from is the "separate but equal" platform. That's your strongest case for this, because this is a matter of civil rights. Just as "separate but equal" was deemed unconstitutional previously, it can be deemed unconstitutional now under largely the same argument.

And further, the parallels are extraordinary. The same argument being made to invalidate gay marriage was the same argument made to invalidate interracial marriages earlier in the 20th century.

Ignore the notion of "_______ of marriage." It's a nebulous phrase that means nothing and it's incredibly difficult to draw real-world examples for it.

Paralleling the civil rights movement or African-Americans, on the other hand? It's a historical basis. It's a concrete comparison. It's a relevant comparison. And it's a clear comparison.

I think they're both concrete. The reason I'm arguing the dignity of marriage angle is Obama accepts the equality angle... up to the point that it actually becomes equality. I admit I usually stress the separate but equal angle though, but Obama's rhetoric that essentially argues it's ok to give gays MOST of what married couples have is the most pressing and dangerous angle and the clearest, if not the best angle to address that is to allow people to think what the word "marriage" means and the difference between the word, and the word civil unions. That, incidentally, is why I used the analogy if some racist state redefined minority marriages to civil unions everyone would rightfully scream bloody murder.... because 95% is NOT equality, it's separate but unequal bigotry.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
GhaleonEB said:
Your post inspired me. So I did some quick googling on the viewers for each night:

ConventionViewers.jpg


Will update each day. Should be fun.

Awesome, I'll look forward to that. I love how the speaker for the GOP on the first night was Gustav. :lol He got better press than Palin, though.

The DNC NEVER looked like this, even at 7:30.

So are you suggesting there's more excitement on the Democratic side this year?
 
LOL at part of Lieberman's speech for tonight. I can't believe he is at the RNC and backing McCain. He's pure evil, looking for unlimited power!

14755__palpatine02_l.jpg
 

HylianTom

Banned
speculawyer said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Decision
The Supreme Court voted 6-3 to strike down the Texas law, with five of the justices holding that it violated due process guarantees, and a sixth justice, Sandra Day O'Connor, finding that it violated equal protection guarantees. The majority opinion, which overrules Bowers v. Hardwick, covers similar laws in 12 other states. Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion; Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer joined.


McCain said he would have never nominated Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/

Yes, and I am also very familiar with Bowers v. Hardwick. The Texas case where the justices that McCain likes said it was legal for Texas to outlaw sodomy.


Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Really?

Things will not be status quo . . . they will move backwards.

Thank you! Obama will be gone in 4 or 8 years; his appointees will be there for decades.
 

Tamanon

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
lol CNN.

"Why did McCain want Lieberman"
"Joe Lieberman is his heart"

Someone get a Brokeback Mountain 'shop up quick.

And I thought it was bad when Lieberman bragged about checkin' McCain's bearings.:lol
 
Washington Post:

Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings also reveal her involvement in another failed startup -- a marketing business which was to go by the name Rouge Cou, which evidently is a literal French translation of "red neck." On the 2005 form, Palin describes the firm as one for which she secured a license but did not conduct any business.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
HylianTom said:
Thank you! Obama will be gone in 4 or 8 years; his appointees will be there for decades.

How many appointees will Obama realistically be able to.....um.........appoint? Assuming no one croaks, of course.
 

Tamanon

Banned
VanMardigan said:
How many appointees will Obama realistically be able to.....um.........appoint? Assuming no one croaks, of course.

Well, there are projected to be at least 2 openings. Both already liberal judges.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
laserbeam said:
90% of the seats are full. This is a hockey stadium they are in so the seating arrangements are very different
What? :lol Don't give me that shit about the seating being different for a "hockey stadium".
 
Gary Whitta said:
Washington Post:
Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings also reveal her involvement in another failed startup -- a marketing business which was to go by the name Rouge Cou, which evidently is a literal French translation of "red neck." On the 2005 form, Palin describes the firm as one for which she secured a license but did not conduct any business.
:lol

Failed businesses, redneck, Christian fundamentalist . . . . she's like Bush with a bush who lives in the bush.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
VanMardigan said:
How many appointees will Obama realistically be able to.....um.........appoint? Assuming no one croaks, of course.


I believe three of the justices are approaching retiring and/or dying age. So up to three is the figure commonly thrown around for the next president to be able to appoint, given that no one suddenly retires or gets hit by a bus.
 
So they're showing a video with pics of the constitution in it. (lol lieberman and mlk)

Wasn't that thing just a piece of paper?

and lol at the pic of dubya on ground zero with the megaphone.
 

Gaborn

Member
speculawyer said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Decision
The Supreme Court voted 6-3 to strike down the Texas law, with five of the justices holding that it violated due process guarantees, and a sixth justice, Sandra Day O'Connor, finding that it violated equal protection guarantees. The majority opinion, which overrules Bowers v. Hardwick, covers similar laws in 12 other states. Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion; Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer joined.


McCain said he would have never nominated Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/

Yes, and I am also very familiar with Bowers v. Hardwick. The Texas case where the justices that McCain likes said it was legal for Texas to outlaw sodomy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowers_v._hardwick#Decision
The majority opinion by Justice White was joined by Chief Justice Burger and Justices Lewis F. Powell, Jr., William H. Rehnquist and Sandra Day O'Connor. Justice Powell and Chief Justice Burger also wrote separate concurring opinions. Justices William J. Brennan, Thurgood Marshall and John Paul Stevens joined Justice Blackmun's dissenting opinion. In addition, Justice Stevens wrote his own dissenting opinion, which was joined by Justices Brennan and Marshall.


Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Really?

Things will not be status quo . . . they will move backwards.

Sure, but once a court ruling has been issued it's much harder to ignore stare decisis, even if you ideologically disagree with the decision, and of course lower courts have to uphold the supreme court's decision so it's harder for a case on the merits of a different law to reach the Supreme court. I think it's important to remember also just because some laws WILL be constitutional does not suggest they will be passed. When the court's decision was reached in Lawrence a majority of the public supported a right to engage in consensual sodomy and a minority of states restricted bans on gay sex exclusively to gay couples (wasn't it like 6-7 that specifically banned gay sex for gay couples but allowed it for straight couples?) Since then of course the public has moved even further in the direction of allowing consensual sodomy to be legal.
 

gkryhewy

Member
bishoptl said:
What? :lol Don't give me that shit about the seating being different for a "hockey stadium".

To be fair, in many US hockey arenas, empty is precisely the configuration observed.

EFF YOU GARY BETTMAN
 

Barrett2

Member
-Kees- said:
Glenn Beck is a pathetic piece of shit. Why this creature has a job on TV astounds me.


Glenn Beck is a Mormon... so his political views shouldn't be too surprising. Angry Republican... most are.
 

lexdysia

Banned
Now Keith is pointing out every governor NBC interviews and saying they were a "serious consideration" for vice president. :lol
 

Novid

Banned
gkrykewy said:
To be fair, in many US hockey arenas, empty is precisely the configuration observed.

EFF YOU GARY BETTMAN

Meanwhile, 10,000 people are waiting for Dr Paul's speach. Media Coverage outside of CNN and C-Span 2, *BUZZ* Ohh...nooooo...sorrrry.../alextrbeck
 
King_Slender said:
Lower approval rating than Bush...I'm just saying...

Democratic candidates for congress outpoll Republican ones on a generic ballot in current polling. They might be blaming Congress, but they are blaming the Congressional GOP for backing President 28% rather than Democrats.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
It's got to be hard for the Obama campaign to sit back and watch this trainwreck happen. It's like 2006 all over again.
 
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