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[deadbeef]

You're reading it wrong.

He said: "The experience argument that the McCain camp has been using is now invalid"

What you heard: "Obama having more experience then the opponents VP is nothing to get excited about".

It is interesting. He's abandoned the experience argument completely and leveled the playing field. Obama, with little experience and Biden with 200 years of experience. McCain has 500 years of experience, and Palin has little experience. It's like a clean slate.

 

[Novid]

Surprising how dominant CNN was to me.

I noticed at gaf that during the last day of the convention, CNN was playing it close to the vest, not too much bullshit but it wasnt PBS. They got rewarded big time.

Not suprising, the two people bitching like a typical cat fight blew this one big time. When CBS News beats you on the last day with just 1 hour 23 min of covrage you need to change up some shit big time.

 

[Stoney Mason]

oh she was picked because purely she was a chick....

She is only the most Popular governor in the United States, who has taken on both dems and republicans, a union member, NRA member, and domestic energy advocate. The repubicans were unmotivated, and now they are going to be an excited and unified voting block. She governs one of the most energy important states in the US. She has the conservatives jumping, and has the Hillary message boards jumping ship to McCain. It's a risk, but the risk has the highest upside of the Republican candidates.

Biden: "I served with Hillary Clinton: I knew Hillary Clinton; Hillary Clinton was a friend of mine. Governor, you're no Hillary Clinton."

This needs to happen.

 

[Arde5643]

this is the other important line of attack that the mccain campaign has to use

"At least we have our ticket in the right order, with the experienced guy on top, and the student waiting in the wings"

The thing is, the inexperience shtick was already used against Obama in the primaries, and not only that, he's done his world tour shtick so that story is not only stale, but harder to use for ratings.

If McCain camp tries to do that, the Dems will bring up all of Palin's accomplishments and attack on that.

I think that will be a very bad attack by McCain. Will he do it? Well, so far he's shown he's got very bad judgment with his VP pick, so who knows?

It is interesting. He's abandoned the experience argument completely and leveled the playing field. Obama, with little experience and Biden with 200 years of experience. McCain has 500 years of experience, and Palin has little experience. It's like a clean slate.

Yep - and it was McCain camp's most and constant effective attack of all. Obama had to use the world tour to try to change that inexperience attack.
And now with this pick, he squandered it all away and even made any experience attack worthless and even worse, dangerous for him.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I noticed at gaf that during the last day of the convention, CNN was playing it close to the vest, not too much bullshit but it wasnt PBS. They got rewarded big time.

Not suprising, the two people bitching like a typical cat fight blew this one big time. When CBS News beats you on the last day with just 1 hour 23 min of covrage you need to change up some shit big time.

Oh I agree. I prefer PBS but If I was going to watch on the cable networks I would pick CNN. It's a good sign that the most moderate channel got the best ratings although I wonder if Fox will pull ahead at the RNC.

 

[Cheebs]

This is the gamble I think that failed to pay off most:

A female VP pick does not at all feel fresh and historic after a grueling 18 month campaign with a female candidate for president. Which was not the case in 1984.

 

[Raistlin]

It is interesting. He's abandoned the experience argument completely and leveled the playing field. Obama, with little experience and Biden with 200 years of experience. McCain has 500 years of experience, and Palin has little experience. It's like a clean slate.

I wouldn't say its really levels the playing field entirely, but it certainly huts the argument.


A very ... interesting ... choice. I actually like what I've read involving some of the things she did in Alaska (mostly regarding cutting out a lot of bureaucracy - something most republicans have forgotten how to do), its not like a VP really ends up with any power anyway, so I doubt anything would come of it.



On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

 

[Karma Kramer]

I kinda feel bad for her, cause she is going to cost McCain the election.

 

[RubxQub]

On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

Yes...yes you are.

 

[Jak140]

Stupid Analogy #7

Yes When the Sega Saturn did a surprise launch on May 5, 1995 during E3, the Gaming media was pissed. Gamepro or Gameplayers was so mad, they mentioned in one sentence in the middle of the mag that "Sega had launched the Saturn and it was for sale" And Gamepro gave crappy ratings to Sega games for the next 10 years. (behave with this last sentence!)

So essentially you agree that McCain really fucked the pooch with this VP choice?

 

[Arde5643]

A very ... interesting ... choice. I actually like what I've read involving some of the things she did in Alaska (mostly regarding cutting out a lot of bureaucracy - something most republicans have forgotten how to do), its not like a VP really ends up with any power anyway, so I doubt anything would come of it.

I think most of the argument here is because we're scared of what will happen if McCain somehow kicks the bucket, and she has to be president.

On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

You mean VPILF, amirite?

 

[Krowley]

THe problem is McCain is 72 and has had cancer FOUR times. He can't have a student in the wings.

That's obviously the way the dems will come back, but it will depend on which ad has the most impact, and what americans think of her as she gets more exposure.

Is she going to be a hit? Are people going to grow more comfortable with her on a personal level? will they trust her on a gut level? How well will she do in the debate?

I'll tell you this. There are going to be very low expectations going into that VP debate, and according to everyhing I've heard on the news today, she was an excellent debater in that governers race in alaska. There is actual video of it on cspan, but I only watched a few minutes.

If she somehow holds her own against Joe Biden, that will silence a lot of critics. It doesn't seem likley, but she's a woman (which could make biden look like a bully), and she's got a blunt and honest style that may make her seem better than she is.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

No you're not the only one (she was a former beauty pageant contestant).

That does nothing to suggest she should be VP.

 

[Hazmat]

On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

Absolutely not. She's Tina Fey with a dash of Dr. Melfi from The Sopranos. Definite appeal.

 

[SEGA SAMMY]

This is the gamble I think that failed to pay off most:

A female VP pick does not at all feel fresh and historic after a grueling 18 month campaign with a female candidate for president. Which was not the case in 1984.

Hmmm...I should copy/paste the dozens of pages this morning from the Hillary forums where forumers now are pledging for Palin!

 

[Drek]

I know nothing about that, but I've read similar stuff all over the net today and heard it on the news. She has an impressive record, even if you don't believe it's sufficient to deserve this office. She has been good at her various jobs.

Well shit man, I'm pretty good at my job. Should I be made Energy Czar?

I don't think this will help McCain win the election at all. State polling data, which by and large checks the McCain box for the whole tepid GOP base Palin will supposedly energize, has Obama winning the election as it stands today.

McCain needs to flip Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Colorado without losing Ohio, Virginia (currently tied), Florida, or North Carolina.

Is there any reason to think Palin would make any of those states flip? Her friendship with Pat Buchanan isn't going to help McCain hang onto a tenuous Florida lead either.

He picked her because he thought "shit, I'll bring in the women vote with a split tail VP, not like I care who the president is after I die". Too bad she's a pro-life creationist who is basically going to only harden the Clinton's resolve to help Obama and bring their voters home to the democratic party.

The real blow here though is to the GOP long term. Palin could've been a legitimate candidate given a couple full terms as governor, maybe followed by a year in the senate or so. Instead they're attaching her to a dead man walking ticket that is going to taint her name.

McCain has just screwed his party out of another legitimate reformation candidate down the road. Got an awful lot of eggs in those Jindal and Corsi baskets now.

 

[laserbeam]

I wouldn't say its really levels the playing field entirely, but it certainly huts the argument.


A very ... interesting ... choice. I actually like what I've read involving some of the things she did in Alaska (mostly regarding cutting out a lot of bureaucracy - something most republicans have forgotten how to do), its not like a VP really ends up with any power anyway, so I doubt anything would come of it.



On a random side note ... am I the only one that thinks she's actually kind of hot, in a librarian, MILF sort of way?

I think most have come to like the naughty librarian bit

Her record on reform I really like. I mean she didnt hold back on anyone. She went after the chairman of the Alaskan Republican party for being corrupt. I think it speaks to her character she didnt abort the kid with down syndrom either.

I dont agree with her on the creationism and such but I think given more time to grow in Politics she could become formidable.

 

[Arde5643]

I'll tell you this. There are going to be very low expectations going into that VP debate, and according to everyhing I've heard on the news today, she was an excellent debater in that governers race in alaska. There is actual video of it on cspan, but I only watched a few minutes.

If she somehow holds her own against Joe Biden, that will silence a lot of critics. It doesn't seem likley, but she's a woman, and she's got a blunt and honest style that may make her seem better than she is.

I think these few days before the convention and her speech at the convention will determine if the media will actually take her seriously or label her as the "trophy pick" forever.

I don't think the media will wait after the debate before trying to label her something to the public.

 

[RubxQub]

Hmmm...I should copy/paste the dozens of pages this morning from the Hillary forums where forumers now are pledging for Palin!

You really enjoy proclaiming the voices as a few as the voices of America.

Alaskan approval ratings? HillaryClinton.com forum posts?

Do you really think these things matter in something as big as a Presidential election?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Hmmm...I should copy/paste the dozens of pages this morning from the Hillary forums where forumers now are pledging for Palin!

sigh

 

[Novid]

Oh I agree. I prefer PBS but If I was going to watch on the cable networks I would pick CNN. It's a good sign that the most moderate channel got the best ratings although I wonder if Fox will pull ahead at the RNC.

If they lose again like they did last night, and CBS beats them again - then Moonves is gonna have a three some with 1 million of the 40 million dollars he spent on Couric on the bed sheets. :lol

Fox News are so fucking idiotic, trying to play that Gravias game. MSNBC was just jiving like crazy. There should be BITCHING up in West 43rd of epic porprotions but NOOOO.

Im kinda shocked Oriley advoids these things. He is there star regardless.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Hmmm...I should copy/paste the dozens of pages this morning from the Hillary forums where forumers now are pledging for Palin!

I would love for you to post a logical reasoned post from anybody who actively, aggressively supported Hillary Clinton and would vote for a candidate who is the polar opposite of her on nearly every single issue.

Internet. Serious Business jpeg.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I think most have come to like the naughty librarian bit

Her record on reform I really like. I mean she didnt hold back on anyone. She went after the chairman of the Alaskan Republican party for being corrupt. I think it speaks to her character she didnt abort the kid with down syndrom either.

I dont agree with her on the creationism and such but I think given more time to grow in Politics she could become formidable.

Well, to be fair, one could argue it speaks to her character to pursue a high risk preganancy in her 40s...

Just saying...

 

[typhonsentra]

Just to kinda be fair to Palin, when Teddy Roosevelt was made VP he didn't have much experience either.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Biden: "I served with Hillary Clinton: I knew Hillary Clinton; Hillary Clinton was a friend of mine. Governor, you're no Hillary Clinton."

This needs to happen.

I bet Obama's speech writers/wordsmiths are trying to create something like that.

I'm going to bed. On a final note, perhaps we should congratulate John McCain - not for handling Obama the election, or proving his lack of judgment, or anything like that. This election season started out with more than 20 people running for president, and John McCain managed to choose a vice president with less experience or "qualifications" than every single one of them. That's not maverick status: that's MacGyver status

 

[Arde5643]

Well, to be fair, one could argue it speaks to her character to pursue a high risk preganancy in her 40s...

Just saying...

Nah, that doesn't make sense - if a father can pursue an ambitious goal and leave the children to be cared by the mother, why not a mother as well?

 

[RubxQub]

Well, to be fair, one could argue it speaks to her character to pursue a high risk preganancy in her 40s...

Just saying...

Wow. I didn't realize how high the %'s of this actually was.

Risk of Birth Defects

The risk of having a baby with chromosomal disorders increase as a woman grows older. The most common of these disorders is Down syndrome, a combination of mental retardation and physical abnormalities caused by the presence of an extra chromosome. At age 25, a woman has about a 1-in-1,250 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome; at age 30, a 1-in-1,000 chance; at age 35, a 1-in-400 chance; at age 40, a 1-in-100 chance; and at 45, a 1-in-30 chance.

 

[Arde5643]

This election season started out with more than 20 people running for president, and John McCain managed to choose a vice president with less experience or "qualifications" than every single one of them. That's not maverick status: that's LolWUT? status

Fixed.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Nah, that doesn't make sense - if a father can pursue an ambitious goal and leave the children to be cared by the mother, why not a mother as well?

Did...you...even...read...my...post?

 

[Matt]

It is interesting. He's abandoned the experience argument completely and leveled the playing field. Obama, with little experience and Biden with 200 years of experience. McCain has 500 years of experience, and Palin has little experience. It's like a clean slate.

Just to be clear, Biden has a hell of a lot more "experience" then McCain.

 

[Novid]

This is the gamble I think that failed to pay off most:

A female VP pick does not at all feel fresh and historic after a grueling 18 month campaign with a female candidate for president. Which was not the case in 1984.

If Cindy McCain has guts, she and her daughters would be choking some fools up in GOP Headquarters. She seems to give a damn about her husband and there just waiting for him to die! Hes no spring chicken, but it seems the Evanglicals are so fucking corrupt, and so fucking high on trying to save souls before judgment day, they gonna damn McCain in hopes they are able to give advice to Palin if the worst ever happens.

 

[deadbeef]

Nah, that doesn't make sense - if a father can pursue an ambitious goal and leave the children to be cared by the mother, why not a mother as well?

This is the real X-Factor that a female candidate gives you. This same formula can be applied in multiple situations and from multiple angles.

 

[Mandark]

Biden: "I served with Hillary Clinton: I knew Hillary Clinton; Hillary Clinton was a friend of mine. Governor, you're no Hillary Clinton."

This needs to happen.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is way ahead of you.

 

[Gaborn]

Well, to be fair, one could argue it speaks to her character to pursue a high risk preganancy in her 40s...

Just saying...

In pretty much the same way a married father (I used a male only because women are technically not allowed in combat at the moment) enlists in the military even though it's particularly dangerous with our foolish interventionism?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Yes like Obama not wanting to sit two states of voters for Clinton.

You know, when you have to choose to follow rules or not, it's usually best to follow them...especially when you agreed to do so knowing what could happen. Besides, they're fully seated now. It would not have changed the outcome of the primary.

Still though, I've never subscribed to believing your political opponents are simply using poor judgment because they didn't vote for your guy.

I don't believe people have poor judgment because they simply disagree or have another point of view, only that things were starting to unravel publicly for the administration well before the election and yet it still did not move the needle. I don't care for the whole 'no one votes out a President while at war' bullshit. That only allows four more years of direction-less, immoral, and illegal 'police action' to continue unabated.

And, in retrospect, it's far easier to say the choice was based on poor judgment now having seen the consequences...with maybe a decade or more to further suffer economically and otherwise because of it. That year, Americans failed to really pay attention and take accountability for their country's direction by not giving a vote of no confidence. If McCain takes this year's election, it will be far worse and we deserve no pity. Fool me once...fool me twice...the fool can be fooled thrice.

 

[SEGA SAMMY]

You really enjoy proclaiming the voices as a few as the voices of America.

Alaskan approval ratings? HillaryClinton.com forum posts?

Do you really think these things matter in something as big as a Presidential election?

these posts are the types of water cooler chatter that can be used to gauge public opinion. If all of the workers are talking at the water cooler are talking about republicans two days after the historic DNC, it could be trouble.

 

[deadbeef]

Just to be clear, Biden has a hell of a lot more "experience" then McCain.

True, fair enough.

 

[Diablos]

Palin says she has 13 years "in elected office". She has a JOURNALISM degree (not saying that's awful, but that's it for VP)? :lol Meanwhile Obama has a solid law background, and has a combined 10+ years experience in the Illinois state senate and US senate. Part of Palin's 13 years in "elected office" includes the PTA. :lol

Last ditch effort confirmed.

What's interesting to note here is that Biden was a brilliant pick. If you rip on Obama for having no experience, or at the very least lacking in foreign policy, he will always have Biden as his #2. The man has a ton of experience overall.

McCain is old, could very well die while in office, and even though he has political experience, his #2 has none. Obama has more experience than Palin. Combined, Obama and Biden have more than McCain and Palin.

If McCain tries to attack Obama because of his experience it'll surely come back to bite him in the ass now that he's once again seriously contradicted himself for the billionth time.

 

[Krowley]

I would love for you to post a logical reasoned post from anybody who actively, aggressively supported Hillary Clinton and would vote for a candidate who is the polar opposite of her on nearly single issue.

Internet. Serious Business jpeg.

A lot of conservative democrats in swing states voted for hillary clinton because she wasn't Barack Obama, not because of her views. A variety of things during the primary quickly made him into the candidate of the hollywood left.. That's the way he was percieved in those areas.

These are Reagan Democrats and they aren't that resistant to voting for a republican, especially one with a rural, working class appeal and a record of reform. The idea of a small town mayor turned governer doesn't turn them off either, it just makes them feel closer to her.

The only real problem is the way mccain made the pick, assuming the story about very little vetting is true. That's what will really bite him in the ass, along with the media's general vitriol.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

I think it speaks to her character she didnt abort the kid with down syndrom either.

It would've been a bit damning if she did, considering her absolute stance against abortion.

But that's a pretty stupid strawman you've got going there... are you suggesting pro-choice people would've definetly aborted a disabled baby?

 

[RubxQub]

these posts are the types of water cooler chatter that can be used to gauge public opinion. If all of the workers are talking at the water cooler are talking about republicans two days after the historic DNC, it could be trouble.

You are going to HillaryClinton forum posters to try and gauge public reaction. This is a mistake.

If you're trying to gauge a more realistic public reaction, you should try and expand your searching.

Trying to gauge public opinion on abortion at www.WeAreSuperCatholicAllTheWay.com isn't exactly a realistic POV.

 

[Dan]

Palin, March '07:

Alaska Business Monthly: We've lost a lot of Alaska's military members to the war in Iraq. How do you feel about sending more troops into battle, as President Bush is suggesting?

Palin: I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq. I heard on the news about the new deployments, and while I support our president, Condoleezza Rice and the administration, I want to know that we have an exit plan in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe. Every life lost is such a tragedy.

Wow. I didn't realize how high the %'s of this actually was.

Shiiiit. I wouldn't even be considering having a baby with those stats. If you really need one, or in this case a fifth, adopt.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is way ahead of you.

You need a crowd with the whole "Oh no he didn’t" roar though to get the full effect like Bentsen did though

 

[Krowley]

I think these few days before the convention and her speech at the convention will determine if the media will actually take her seriously or label her as the "trophy pick" forever.

I agree with that to some extent, but the debate can turn things around in a hurry. The more they underestimate her before the debate, the more powerful a solid performance could be. Biden is formidable, and that only adds to the narrative. It's a way to salvage the pick if things go sour for her.

 

[Gaborn]

I don't believe people have poor judgment because they simply disagree or have another point of view, only that things were starting to unravel publicly for the administration well before the election and yet it still did not move the needle. I don't care for the whole 'no one votes out a President while at war' bullshit. That only allows four more years of direction-less, immoral, and illegal 'police action' to continue unabated.

And, in retrospect, it's far easier to say the choice was based on poor judgment now having seen the consequences...with maybe a decade or more to further suffer economically and otherwise because of it. That year, Americans failed to really pay attention and take accountability for their country's direction by giving a vote of no confidence. If McCain takes this year's election, it will be far worse and we deserve no pity. Fool me once...fool me twice...the fool can be fooled thrice.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the reason that Kerry lost in '04 (aside from the fact he was a dry, unemotional candidate well defined by the GOP attack machine) was that Bush pushed the narrative of finishing the job pretty well, he made it seem like switching presidents would be changing course on the war and "losing" in Iraq (even though we should've never gone in). In other words, he controlled the more powerful and compelling narrative to the American psyche, people voted for him to show that he could get us out of the mess he made.

 

[Macam]

Seriously though - at this point who WOULDN'T know I'm gay? I thought I was... pretty obvious actually.

The only thing I knew you were gay for was Ron Paul. News to me.

In other news, the new Bill Moyers' Journal episode is pretty interesting, as always.

 

[Novid]

Just to kinda be fair to Palin, when Teddy Roosevelt was made VP he didn't have much experience either.

Teddy Roosevelt was a big time diffrent case than Palin. BIG time. Like mega war hero- Governor of New York, when they could only serve 1 2 year terms! DUDE created his own party because they screwed him over! He was a bad ass and was the only true Progressive before they got taken over... MUCH diffrent case.

 

[reilo]

A lot of conservative democrats in swing states voted for hillary clinton because she wasn't Barack Obama, not because of her views. A variety of things during the primary quickly made him into the candidate of the hollywood left.. That's the way he was percieved in those areas.

These are Reagan Democrats and they aren't that resistant to voting for a republican, especially one with a rural, working class appeal and a record of reform. The idea of a small town mayor turned governer doesn't turn them off either, it just makes them feel closer to her.

The only real problem is the way mccain made the pick, assuming the story about very little vetting is true. That's what will really bite him in the ass, along with the media general vitriol.

Reagan Democrats voted for Reagan because he was RONALD FUCKING REAGAN. Many people did because they viewed him as a centrist and moderate.

John McCain, is no Ronald Reagan, and any Reagan Democrat with worth a sense in their mind will never ever see him as one, and especially not vote for him. A female George W Bush won't help convince Reagan Democrats that McCain is the incarnation of Reagan they would vote for.

 

[adamsappel]

Unlike most of other gay GAFfers, Gaborn doesn't leave a bread crumb of pink triangles with his posts.

He explained the genesis of his username a bit ago (anime? manga? JRPG?), but am I alone in previously thinking his name was supposed to mean "born gay"?

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

He explained the genesis of his username a bit ago (anime? manga? JRPG?), but am I alone in previously thinking his name was supposed to mean "born gay"?

Right.... just like Shittake Mushrooms are actually us taking shit out of the ground.