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[Arde5643]

Oh ho ho... she reeks so much of Bushism.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/29/AR2008082903598.html?hpid=topnews

John Cyr, chief of the troopers' union, said he was "shocked and disappointed" at McCain's selection of Palin. "It goes well beyond the fact that she is under a cloud of ethics investigations. She's fired the only commissioner who dared to stand up and say we need to do more to make Alaska safe."

Wooten, reached at a trooper's office in Palmer, Alaska, declined to comment. Cyr said Wooten has "a spotless record" and no allegations in his file other than those filed by the governor's family.

Monegan and Cyr said that Wooten's wife had obtained a permit to hunt moose but balked when she saw the prey. She handed the gun to her husband, who killed it, Monegan and Cyr said, adding that the couple then took the moose to her parents' home, butchered it and ate some of it.

Wooten said he used the Taser on his 10-year-old stepson when the boy asked him to try it on him, Monegan and Cyr said.

The investigation into Wooten sustained the allegations regarding the moose hunt and the Taser. The drinking charge was unsustained in an initial investigation, but a police commander reversed the decision. Documents say Wooten was reprimanded and suspended. "Wooten was not a model trooper," Monegan said.

 

[Cloudy]

There is NO WAY Palin is changing anyone's mind this late in the game. Any votes McCain gets because of her were never going to Obama in the first place....

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Oh ho ho... she reeks so much of Bushism.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/29/AR2008082903598.html?hpid=topnews

I see wat you did there.

 

[mckmas8808]

Lets take a deep breath. Her investigation is certainly something that even an hour of vetting her would have revealed and raised flags if it were truely gonna be a problem.

Hey Laser I respect you because you seem to be a republican that can think rationally so don't stop now man.

She is in deep trouble. You do realize that the original story that Andrea Mitchell told her was not correct, right?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

There is NO WAY Palin is changing anyone's mind this late in the game. Any votes McCain gets because of her were never going to Obama in the first place....

Palin inclusion helps McCain win by landslide.

 

[nyong]

Then what other issues is she voting on that makes a VP selection enough to sway who she should vote for on the top of the ticket.

Iraq and the economy. My mom (and dad) want an end to outsourcing, which isn't happening anytime soon. My dad lost his engineering job to outsourcing, and probably old age, not too long ago. Palin being a mom with a son on the way to Iraq means that she understands and has a personal interest in Iraq going as smoothly as possible. Both my brother and I spent time over there. She wants a pullout, but understands it probably won't happen right away.

 

[laserbeam]

Hey Laser I respect you because you seem to be a republican that can think rationally so don't stop now man.

She is in deep trouble. You do realize that the original story that Andrea Mitchell told her was not correct, right?

I just think that the republicans aren't stupid. They aren't the brightest for sure but Palin and this investigation had to be front page of any report of vetting done. I dont subscribe to the they didnt vet her logic.

 

[Cloudy]

Palin inclusion helps McCain win by landslide.

I've said several times in this thread that he's gonna win. The fact that this race is even close after 2 terms of Bush is the sure indicator..

 

[reilo]

Why? even if you reject arguments about Obama and his level of national experience you really can't ignore that McCain's been a national figure in the press a lot longer. He's developed relationships with them, and often developed dislikes for them, but more than that he's kept them at arm's length for most of the campaign anyway. Obama's had a much more open to the press campaign and has benefited with more positive coverage. McCain has been keeping his cards close to the vest the entire time and apparently wanted the media to think some names were seriously bandied about.

I mean, honestly, could you have really seen him picking Lieberman? I don't care if the two were secretly lovers, it would have been the worst pick ever at halfway securing his base. Romney wouldn't have been much better and I don't think the two like each other enough to do it.

Yes because McCain's judgment has been extremely suspect - especially as of late. This Palin pick has the same stigma.

 

[nyong]

Well, you need some help with your writing, but thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, I'm a lazy bastard. I usually run through it once but never run it through a spell-checker or give it the time I probably should. It was crappy wording on my part and I understand the confusion. My bad.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Iraq and the economy. My mom (and dad) want an end to outsourcing, which isn't happening anytime soon. My dad lost his engineering job to outsourcing, and probably old age, not too long ago. Palin being a mom with a son on the way to Iraq means that she understands and has a personal interest in Iraq going as smoothly as possible. Both my brother and I spent time over there. She wants a pullout, but understands it probably won't happen right away.

Sorry to hear that, but I'm not sure McCain would help stop the outsourcing.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'll take centrist candidate to mean white candidate since Hillary and Obama have nearly the exact same voting record. Since when is universal health care the centrist position?

.

 

[Gaborn]

Hey Laser I respect you because you seem to be a republican that can think rationally so don't stop now man.

She is in deep trouble. You do realize that the original story that Andrea Mitchell told her was not correct, right?

Because you want her to be. It amazes me. You guys really, honestly think that McCain, as old as he is, and as wrong as he is on Iraq and so many other issues, is a fundamentally STUPID man, don't you? You think that because the media didn't hype the pick ad nauseum for days and days that McCain was panicked and this was a last minute pick. You want to believe he's desperate because that's a good sign for Obama.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I've said several times in this thread that he's gonna win. The fact that this race is even close after 2 terms of Bush is the sure indicator..

facepalm.

Reverse Konex never works.

 

[mckmas8808]

I just think that the republicans aren't stupid. They aren't the brightest for sure but Palin and this investigation had to be front page of any report of vetting done. I dont subscribe to the they didnt vet her logic.

Yeah but you do know that PoliGAF, Andrea Mitchell, and Chuck Todd thought she got the guy fired because he beat her sister.

Again you DO know that this is a lie right? Please Laser tell me you understand that the original story wasn't correct.

 

[reilo]

Iraq and the economy. My mom (and dad) want an end to outsourcing, which isn't happening anytime soon. My dad lost his engineering job to outsourcing, and probably old age, not too long ago. Palin being a mom with a son on the way to Iraq means that she understands and has a personal interest in Iraq going as smoothly as possible. Both my brother and I spent time over there. She wants a pullout, but understands it probably won't happen right away.

So your parents support a pro-free trade candidate in McCain, who, in addition to, wants to give tax breaks to those exact same companies that ship jobs overseas?

Why won't your mom vote for Obama? After all, Joe Biden's son is going to Iraq, too. Does he not have a personal interest?

I don't get it.

Obama supports a pull-out, but not immediate and one that will happen over a span of 13 months.

So, how does Palin stand for any of that you just described?

Because you want her to be. It amazes me. You guys really, honestly think that McCain, as old as he is, and as wrong as he is on Iraq and so many other issues, is a fundamentally STUPID man, don't you? You think that because the media didn't hype the pick ad nauseum for days and days that McCain was panicked and this was a last minute pick. You want to believe he's desperate because that's a good sign for Obama.

Yes, because he hasn't given me any reason to believe otherwise. Much like George W Bush hasn't given me any reason to pause and think, "oh, maybe he does have a higher IQ than I initially thought!"

 

[mckmas8808]

Because you want her to be. It amazes me. You guys really, honestly think that McCain, as old as he is, and as wrong as he is on Iraq and so many other issues, is a fundamentally STUPID man, don't you? You think that because the media didn't hype the pick ad nauseum for days and days that McCain was panicked and this was a last minute pick. You want to believe he's desperate because that's a good sign for Obama.

Investigations have proven that he picked her on Friday morning. You don't see that as being desperate?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Iraq and the economy. My mom (and dad) want an end to outsourcing, which isn't happening anytime soon. My dad lost his engineering job to outsourcing, and probably old age, not too long ago. Palin being a mom with a son on the way to Iraq means that she understands and has a personal interest in Iraq going as smoothly as possible. Both my brother and I spent time over there. She wants a pullout, but understands it probably won't happen right away.

I just don't see how Palin or Republicanism in general has anything to do with outsourcing unless she/you is willing to cite specific reasons. These same repbulicans mock tax breaks for corporations that don't outsource jobs. Biden has a son going to Iraq. Obama is the candidate that was against the war and the one who wanted to end it before Mccain did. It sounds like your mother was the type who was always going to vote for Mccain which doesn't make her an independent or swing vote.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people are pretending that this is some logical and very intelligent decision in swaying voters when that's the exact opposite of what it is. I understand that voting is a gut level reaction for a lot of people with a lot of biases both pro and con built in. I'm not even not saying that Palin won't help. I'm just saying I certainly don't see where all this enthusiasm comes from in any logical or analytical sense outside of blind optimism for people suddenly. It makes very little sense to me and I'm someone who thinks it was a good pick for him.

 

[Incognito]

I've been thinking about this pick since it was announced.

And I still don't understand what the hell John McCain was thinking. I just can't comprehend it.

 

[Gaborn]

Investigations have proven that he picked her on Friday morning. You don't see that as being desperate?

Obama "picked" Biden a day or two before it was announced. That doesn't mean neither of them vetted them before that point.

 

[CharlieDigital]

So, how does Palin stand for any of that you just described?

"No but she's hot!"

It's such a distraction to any intellectual discussion about the future of this country.

 

[nyong]

So your parents support a pro-free trade candidate in McCain, who, in addition to, wants to give tax breaks to those exact same companies that ship jobs overseas?

Why won't your mom vote for Obama? After all, Joe Biden's son is going to Iraq, too. Does he not have a personal interest?

I don't get it.

Obama supports a pull-out, but not immediate and one that will happen over a span of 13 months.

So, how does Palin stand for any of that you just described?

I don't want to put words into my mom's mouth, but I would imagine it's because she (Palin) is a mom. So she can relate to her better. Again, I'm guessing. I'll ask for clarification later in the week.

And my mom was anti-McCain partly because of his economic stance. Like I said, she's not a single-issue voter so everything taken into consideration, she's siding with McCain/Palin at this point in time.

 

[Krowley]

I'll take centrist candidate to mean white candidate since Hillary and Obama have nearly the exact same voting record. Since when is universal health care the centrist position?

That's why I put "slightly".

The real killer was the "clinging to god and guns comment".. Hillary attacked him relentlessly for that, and small town america soured on him almost instantly, and permanently. The pastor controversy hurt too, very badly. For some people it was an instant deal breaker, and there was NOTHING he could do to get them back. Both of those reflected a left wing ideology that is unsellable in smalltown america.

In addition, Hillary started running to his right late in the primary's, with the 3AM ads and various attacks. The clintons know how to appeal to that voting block. It's not just about positions, but it's more about a state of mind. You can get away with some fairly liberal positions on a lot of issues, if you can convince people that you relate to their lives and think like they do.

Racism probably does have some impact here, unfortunatley. There is nothing Obama could do about that and it's a real shame.

But anyway, if the democrats want to win, they're going to have to get some of these people to vote for them. If Obama finds a new Coalition that actually allows him to beat the republicans, I will be slightly surprised, but he has a real chance because he definitly brings new voters to the polls.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I don't want to put words into my mom's mouth, but I would imagine it's because she (Palin) is a mom. So she can relate to her better. Again, I'm guessing. I'll ask for clarification later in the week.

And my mom was anti-McCain partly because of his economic stance. Like I said, she's not a single-issue voter so everything taken into consideration, she's siding with McCain/Palin at this point in time.

Look man, it's not about "who you can relate to". It's about who's the most qualified person to lead this country out of the morass of the last 8 years of failed economic policies, failed foreign policy, and failed leadership in every respect.

 

[reilo]

That's why I put "slightly".

The real killer was the "clinging to god and guns comment".. Hillary attacked him relentlessly for that, and small town america soured on him almost instantly, and permanently. The pastor controversy hurt too, very badly. For some people it was an instant deal breaker, and there was NOTHING he could do to get them back. Both of those reflected a left wing ideology that is unsellable in smalltown america.

In addition, Hillary started running to his right late in the primary's, with the 3AM ads and various attacks. The clintons know how to appeal to that voting block. It's not just about positions, but it's more about a state of mind. You can get away with some fairly liberal positions on a lot of issues, if you can convince people that you relate to their lives and think like they do.

Racism probably does have some impact here, unfortunatley. There is nothing Obama could do about that and it's a real shame.

But anyway, if the democrats want to win, they're going to have to get some of these people to vote for them. If Obama finds a new Coalition that actually allows him to beat the republicans, I will be slightly surprised, but he has a real chance because he definitly brings new voters to the polls.

He is getting a new coalition. One that has been registering higher than their republican counterparts by the nth degree. Look it up - it's no joke.

 

[mckmas8808]

Obama "picked" Biden a day or two before it was announced. That doesn't mean neither of them vetted them before that point.

First of all he picked Biden on his Vacation trip so your day or 2 statement just right there is a complete freaking lie.

Again some of you guys don't understand how bad this investgation can really become. October 31st will be the big day for her.

Why pick a person that could be impeached 4 days before the election!?!?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Look man, it's not about "who you can relate to". It's about who's the most qualified person to lead this country out of the morass of the last 8 years of failed economic policies, failed foreign policy, and failed leadership in every respect.

See?

THIS is why people leave the thread and never come back.

 

[reilo]

See?

THIS is why people leave the thread and never come back.

Because others dare to respond to them by using logic?

 

[Gaborn]

First of all he picked Biden on his Vacation trip so your day or 2 statement just right there is a complete freaking lie.

Again some of you guys don't understand how bad this investgation can really become. October 31st will be the big day for her.

Why pick a person that could be impeached 4 days before the election!?!?

:lol :lol :lol ok, that's laying it on thick enough that I see now.

 

[nyong]

Look man, it's not about "who you can relate to". It's about who's the most qualified person to lead this country out of the morass of the last 8 years of failed economic policies, failed foreign policy, and failed leadership in every respect.

That's the way it should be, but that's not the way it actually is. I really think that Bush won the last election in large part because people could picture themselves having a beer with the guy. And McCain tried attacking Obama on experience and failed miserably. What this represents is an acknowledgement of the fact that experience isn't as important as it once was and a (wise) change in tactics.

 

[Dartastic]

But she has a vagina. That in itself is enough for many woman voters. Probably the same bitter Hillary supporters that were either refusing the vote or on the fence about Obama this next election.

Seriously. You only have to go to Hillaryis44 to see that. Ick.

READ: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/29/palin_pick_leaves_bruised_feel.html

Wow at the comments. They're really terrible.

Great, this is what my party has come to?? A damn circus I tell you! We've got a 1000 year old Mummy & it's crypt keeper ghoul of a wife, and now the beauty queen that's squirting milk all over her blouse while the Retard kid screams. Great. Call me in 4 years when I can vote for Huck again.

 

[Cloudy]

I guess I lean to the left (although I'm not a fan of some of Obama's socialist proposals lol) but I liked McCain a lot more before this election.

I actually thought I'd be cool with whoever won even though I like 90% of what Obama's about (maybe 50% for McCain) but the way this campaign is going, I was wrong.

Even for people who disagree with his politics, McCain was a respected figure but now I dunno. Watching him be a puppet of the GOP just to win at all costs is pretty pathetic. I guess it's worth it if he wins but what if he doesn't?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Seriously. You only have to go to Hillaryis44 to see that. Ick.

Hillary is 44 was never the bulk or mainstream of Hillary supporters. I wish it was a banned site on this forum like some of the gaming sites on the gaming side are. It's a GAF strawman to pretend this is what Hillary voters are like and beat up on the candidate and make crazy leaps of logic. I said that way back when.

 

[mckmas8808]

:lol :lol :lol ok, that's laying it on thick enough that I see now.

And then you laugh and never answer the question. Why guard this pick if you can't whole heartedly explain the truths?

This lady could possible be impeached days before the election and McCain is gambling his whole entire party over this unknown lady.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Because others dare to respond to them by using logic?

Shut the hell up, mama.

You're just bitter cause Pau is gonna stink it up this year to spite Kobe for stealing his Gold Medal.

 

[Gaborn]

Hillary is 44 was never the bulk or mainstream of Hillary supporters. I wish it was a banned site on this forum like some of the gaming sites on the gaming side are. It's a GAF strawman to pretend this is what Hillary voters are like and beat up on the candidate and make crazy leaps of logic. I said that way back when.

Let's say that even 10% of the crazy hillary supporters refuse to vote for Obama, half vote for McCain because of Palin and half just stay home. If even 50% of them (and I bet it'd be more of them) voted for Kerry last time, that's quite a few votes Obama would just fall behind, especially in a close election. That's what GAF doesn't like. the crazies don't need to be THAT big a number to hurt Obama a lot.

Mckmas - if you truly, honestly believe McCain didn't make damn sure that wasn't going to be even remotely an issue then you're either delusional or a McCainiac.

 

[Dartastic]

Hillary is 44 was never the bulk or mainstream of Hillary supporters. I wish it was a banned site on this forum like some of the gaming sites on the gaming side are. It's a GAF strawman to pretend this is what Hillary voters are like. I said that way back when.

Oh, I know, but at the same time there obviously is that type of crazy Hillary supporter who WILL vote for McCain/Palin because Palin is a woman, and their support for Hillary was never really about the issues; it was about her gender. It's a fact. My mother supported Hillary for a long time because of her gender alone. She eventually wised up. The thing is, Hillaryis44 just shows the lunacy better than most. It's an extreme, yes, but it definitely demonstrates a point.

 

[Cloudy]

I mean, he had met her one time before choosing her to be his VP. What the hell?

I'm not naive enough to think Biden wasn't a political pick as well but damn...

 

[Stoney Mason]

That's the way it should be, but that's not the way it actually is. I really think that Bush won the last election in large part because people could picture themselves having a beer with the guy. And McCain tried attacking Obama on experience and failed miserably. What this represents is an acknowledgement of the fact that experience isn't as important as it once was and a (wise) change in tactics.

This is a false idea imo. Bush did win 2004 on experience. The same way any incumbent does. The entire premise of that campaign was don't change horses in the middle of the stream. There is no doubt that 2008 is a change election though. And you have one candidate who is running off his maverick status from 8 years ago. The people will make that call and decide if that is maverick enough for them in 2008.

 

[CharlieDigital]

That's the way it should be, but that's not the way it actually is. I really think that Bush won the last couple elections in large part because people could picture themselves having a beer with the guy. And McCain tried attacking Obama on experience and failed miserably. What this represents is an acknowledgement of that fact and a (wise) change in tactics.

That's my point. If you, knowing this, do not hammer this point to your family and friend, then I dunno, you've failed Democracy proper and failed the United States as a citizen.

Look, I can't relate to some of the hardcore badasses that join the SEALS. But that's fine; I'd want nothing less than the most badass animal mother's to handle the most sensitive missions the US undertakes.

I can't relate to to a fireman who'll risk his life to save those of a total stranger by running into a fire. But that's fine; I want nothing less than the most courageous and selfless of men and women as firefighters.

I can't relate to guys like Obama who had all the possibilities in the world to go to wall street after graduating Harvard Law to make a name (and a fortune) for himself for some big corporation, and instead, chose to serve the poorest, most disenfranchised people.

I can't relate to Barack Obama, but I know he's smart as fuck, he's educated, he knows how to organize people, he knows how to pick talent, he knows how to bring people together to get the job done, he has the intellectual credentials to lead a nation into a future that is ever more dependent on technology, knowledge, education, and science.

I can't relate to Obama on many levels, but I get his vision of the US. I get what direction he wants to steer the US in. I understand what is at stake here. With record deficits, two ongoing wars overseas costing us billions each month, and the rise of old foes to economic and political prowess, this is no time to be voting because of looks, because of gender, because of "I can relate to x".

Fuck that. Do not be complicit in the movement to bring this country backwards. Do not do this to yourself, to your children or future children. Do not do this to your fellow Americans. We don't know if Obama can deliver on all of his promises; no man is perfect. However, McCain is a known quantity; we know what will happen if we embrace four more years of the same failed policies and same divisive politics.

Fuck that. Do not do this to America man.

 

[mckmas8808]

C'mon, McCain has actually cited her PTA work as experience.:lol

What is PTA work?

 

[Dartastic]

What is PTA work?

Parent Teacher Association. For schools. :lol

 

[laserbeam]

And then you laugh and never answer the question. Why guard this pick if you can't whole heartedly explain the truths?

This lady could possible be impeached days before the election and McCain is gambling his whole entire party over this unknown lady.

Only thing I could really say is the String pullers who run the stuff behind the scenes must feel confident enough.

I am not gonna pretend to know the whole situation up there and there is certainly somethings I question reading stuff but the Senate up there seems mostly satisfied in the level of cooperation etc from her and her staff.

The only real dissenting opinions I have found are various bloggers. She has made alot of enemies in her short time up there no doubt considering the high profile people she has exposed for corruption etc

 

[Cloudy]

C'mon, McCain has actually cited her PTA work as experience

These guys have some balls after the "no experience" crap they've been spewing for weeks.

Good grief...

 

[Stoney Mason]

Let's say that even 10% of the crazy hillary supporters refuse to vote for Obama, half vote for McCain because of Palin and half just stay home. If even 50% of them (and I bet it'd be more of them) voted for Kerry last time, that's quite a few votes Obama would just fall behind, especially in a close election. That's what GAF doesn't like. the crazies don't need to be THAT big a number to hurt Obama a lot.

This doesn't take into account all the people who are registering for Obama. It doesn't take into account swing voters. And it doesn't take into account that those numbers diffuse into an electoral campaign that comes down to about 4 or 5 states. We'll see. I'm dying to see some real poll numbers on these issues and see that electoral map suddenly sweep in a different direction.

 

[mckmas8808]

A few moments ago on Real Time, Michelle Martin (NPR) stated that Democrats are underestimating Palin. I think she's right.

Dude.....

1. She doesn't have an opinion on the Iraq war.
2. May be impeached
3. Didn't know what a Vice President did 4 weeks ago.


I mean we can do this forever.

 

[Byakuya769]

With the power of the two P's it seems now that McCain will likely win the election.


POW

and

PTA

 

[Cloudy]

Dude.....

1. She doesn't have an opinion on the Iraq war.
2. May be impeached
3. Didn't know what a Vice President did 4 weeks ago.


I mean we can do this forever.

You assume the majority of voters have a clue...

 

[Gaborn]

This doesn't take into account all the people who are registering for Obama. It doesn't take into account swing voters. And it doesn't take into account that those numbers diffuse into an electoral campaign that comes down to about 4 or 5 states. We'll see. I'm dying to see some real poll numbers on these issues and see that electoral map suddenly sweep in a different direction.

It'll be a REALLY interesting election. I realize the analysis was limitted in a lot of ways, the ways you mentioned, and of course because we have don't actually know how many hillary supporters will actually feel that way on election day.

MckMas - Sounds like you should be dancing in the aisles. Instead you're the one that sounds desperate.

 

[Dan]

Dude.....

1. She doesn't have an opinion on the Iraq war.
2. May be impeached
3. Didn't know what a Vice President did 4 weeks ago.


I mean we can do this forever.

No doubt, but arrogance and overconfidence will not win this election, and that's what Martin was talking about. Democrats underestimate her at their own peril.

Notably, while sane, rational Americans should dismiss most of what she brings to the table, we unfortunately can't assume that all swayable voters will approach the election that way.