-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF Thread of Republican's Turn at Conventions (Palin VP - READ OP)
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
- Status
King_Slender
Banned
worldrunover said:
It's a baiting strategy - they want to get Obama to start talking about being a community organizer so the American people will say "What, this is a community organizer and he wants to be President???"
And by the morning talking points, looks like they are falling for the bait. Here's the thing - the only community organizers I know of are primarily in big city, black communities - who were already going to vote for Obama anyway. All they are doing is wasting time on votes they already have.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Oh yeah, that long list of community organizers you know. You certainly strike me as the sort who would be a real authority on the matter. Tell us more.King_Slender said:
:lol
CharlieDigital
Banned
The Daily Show is fucking awesome.
The cognitive dissonance is astounding. A-FUCKING-STOUNDING.
How do they live like this?
The cognitive dissonance is astounding. A-FUCKING-STOUNDING.
How do they live like this?
King_Slender said:
Kinda like McCain cutting his message off at the knees to win states he's already won. You raise a fair point on the baiting strategy, but the obama campaign has demonstrated that they're rather sophisticated in their strategies, and unlikely to fall into a tit for tat.
Joe Biden was on CNN this morning, and he certainly didn't fall for it.
King_Slender
Banned
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I've lived in Chicago - I know what they do. There isn't a SINGLE community organizer who is not a Democrat, so why bother focussing on it? Oh that's right, it was MEAN - WAH!:lol
ratcliffja
Member
So pretty much everybody at MSNBC are saying that Palin will be president and that her speech pretty much sealed McCain's victory. That's rather sickening.
gkrykewy said:
Exactly. Palin was picked as a complement to his independent mantra, but with fundie cred... But now, after the week of scandal, people are seeing her as just another fundie wack-job. The base loves it, everyone else will see through it. This might have worked 8 years ago, but the fundie movement has lost a lot of momentum, and is definitely not a winning strategy in terms of McCain broadening his appeal.
King_Slender said:
Because if Palin wants to compare her tenure as a borrowing, tax-raising, book-censoring, loyalty-testing, earmark-seeking, lobbyist-hiring mayor of Wassila to Obama's community organizing (when he turned down an offer for a higher paying job to give back to the community), she won't come out on top in the eyes of the general public.
Superblatt
Member
Huzah said:
That says something kind of sad though about the Republican base, doesn't it? After all, she represents the same old divisive politics or hardcore right wing America. And, to make it worse, it appears she is stimulating the base due entirely to her social agenda -- not her stances on important issues like healthcare, jobs, the war and energy.
I don't care that she's a mom. That's great -- there are a LOTS of great moms out there.
I don't care that she has a baby with downs. That's great -- there are LOTS of babys out there with downs.
I don't care that she's a hockey or soccer mom.
But, there are not lots of people with Constitutional Law degrees from Harvard. Is there anything at all that sets her apart from Joe-Shmo? I thought our world leaders are supposed to be the cream of the crop . I thought we've already seen what happens when they're not...
I DO care what her policy positions are, and am honestly still lost after last night's "Obama sucks" speech. Is that really what the Republican's think will win them this election? Because at this point, it's definitely not helping them move over independent voters in swing states.
I also DO care that she only has a B.S. in Journalism from a school in Idaho. Obama has a Constitutional Law Degree from fucking Harvard. HARVARD! Can we stop this debate already? It's getting ridiculous.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
ratcliffja said:
IF you are watching Morning Joe, then you are watching the GOP leg of their coverage.
King_Slender
Banned
gkrykewy said:
I don't know about Colorado, but I live in Michigan and my parents grew up in Eastern Pennsylvania. These three states are made up of a LOT of white, middle to lowere class families who, take it for the truth that it is, grew up during a time that was still fairly bigoted. They might be union guys and typically vote for pro-union candidates, but I know a LOT of auto-workers (Dad retired from Ford, brother is in the UAW) and these are not guys that are going to go and pull the lever for a black guy.
Sorry, it's racist, but it's the truth.
King_Slender
Banned
ratcliffja said:
At least Chris Matthews knows the political game and sees the brilliance of her speech and had to check Olberman on his partisanship last night when he wondered why she would throw away the 'community organizer' vote. :lol
CharlieDigital
Banned
Superblatt said:
You can't cure stupid, unfortunately.
Time and again we've shown the hypocrisy and lies thrown out there by the Republicans and yet there are people who still cannot see the light.
Some people you just can't change them. They're so entrenched in ideology that logic doesn't work.
King_Slender said:
Yes, there are a certain number of racist votes he'll never get, but that has nothing to do with Palin.
Biden has locked up PA for Obama.
EDIT: Although, I have noticed a number of Obama TV spots here in Philly over the last week, after not seeing any for awhile. Could be a regular rotation though.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
King_Slender said:
There's barely *anybody* in Chicago who isn't a democrat. Not all community organizers are here, though.
Superblatt said:
I totally agree. I am working on a law degree from a non-Ivy League school, and its tough. I don't think people fully appreciate how insanely impressive it is to be the Editor in Chief of the Harvard Law Review.
Plus, the fact that Obama turned down $250,000 per-year jobs upon graduation, instead returning to Chicago to be a community organizer in poor neighborhoods... that is a level of humility and public service we rarely hear about... But apparently we are supposed to throw it all away because the REAL public service is either being a hick mayor, or a POW!
It sickens me.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
ratcliffja said:
That's not what they said. Scarbs is right. She has the best chance to be the first woman president. She will definitely run in the next election, and has a good chance to win. They never said she won McCain the election.
Superblatt
Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, they're wrong on that too because if she runs, so will Hilary. If you think the Palin/Biden debate is going to be good, just imagine that one.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Superblatt said:
Well, four years is a long time.
MaddenNFL64
Member
You talking about the conservative boogeyman, the 'librul' media, or Daily KOS, Media Matters etc.?
Because the mainstream media won't give a shit. Just fodder for the 24 hour news cycle.
Because the mainstream media won't give a shit. Just fodder for the 24 hour news cycle.
Did anyone else feel their brain twist watching the coverage last night?
I'm not going to lie and say I'm not a liberal/progressive. I am. However, I also like to think of myself as fair-minded. I'm willing to have the "small government, free market" debate with people.
But watching the coverage last night, I really feel like I'm looking at a completely different universe. A set of people living in a different world working with a different set of facts. When "reduce our dependency on oil" becomes "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" becomes "drill here, drill now", I'm left totally speechless. There is clearly no argument that will sway someone this far off track.
For people so opposed to "moral relativity", they certainly cling to a relative view of reality.
Either that, or they are just lying on a massive scale.
I'm not going to lie and say I'm not a liberal/progressive. I am. However, I also like to think of myself as fair-minded. I'm willing to have the "small government, free market" debate with people.
But watching the coverage last night, I really feel like I'm looking at a completely different universe. A set of people living in a different world working with a different set of facts. When "reduce our dependency on oil" becomes "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" becomes "drill here, drill now", I'm left totally speechless. There is clearly no argument that will sway someone this far off track.
For people so opposed to "moral relativity", they certainly cling to a relative view of reality.
Either that, or they are just lying on a massive scale.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I know I'm LTTP, but I was seriously about to throw my remote at the TV. My head started to hurt on the hypocrisy and lies from the woman. The woman claims to go against big oil, yet she vetoed against solar and wind power due to her husband's oil connections. She's a reformer? Fought against unethical issues? Yeah, why did you fire the whole state Agriculture and Conservation board and filled them with your cronies that ended up losing MORE money?
Taxes. HOLY SHIT. Slander like that should be ILLEGAL. Yes, illegal. I don't care if it sounds asinine. After Obama repeatedly said he will cut taxes on 95% of working families.
Eff her.
Taxes. HOLY SHIT. Slander like that should be ILLEGAL. Yes, illegal. I don't care if it sounds asinine. After Obama repeatedly said he will cut taxes on 95% of working families.
Eff her.
Good job, Palin. I think there was a LOT of pressure on her and she did surprisingly well in front of a national audience.
That said, it was a speech, not an interview, and tougher days lie ahead for her. Especially since she came out swinging; she's pretty much made herself fair game now.
Whatever your feelings about the woman, her speech sure made for great television. Bravo! I haven't enjoyed politics like this in, well, ever.
That said, it was a speech, not an interview, and tougher days lie ahead for her. Especially since she came out swinging; she's pretty much made herself fair game now.
Whatever your feelings about the woman, her speech sure made for great television. Bravo! I haven't enjoyed politics like this in, well, ever.
theBishop said:
I am a classical conservative, and last nights speeches made me want to vomit. The conservative movement in the US is dead, as far as I am concerned. What I saw last night was a bunch of cheap, manipulative bullshit. Even highly intelligent & qualified people like Romney are reduced to sounding like douchebag bumber-sticker generators. It saddens me that this is what the conservative movement has been reduced to, a low-brow sideshow.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
That's not an argument that Palin should be making. Obama at least tried to answer it in a cogent manner, and I think he's at least validated in going after that part of her career since she isn't that far removed from it herself. Not only did Palin ignore most of Obama's career, but she made a really bad joke at the one thing she was attacking, effectively dismissing it. There are things to attack Obama on. This wasn't it. The Republican party is always good at turning weakness into some sort of weird strength, but they look so disingenuous in the process. Not only do they trump their strengths, but they make up for their weaknesses with absurdity, becoming apologists in the process. Of course Democrats do that all the time. I just hope that the person running for President aspires for more.Huzah said:
People let this happen, however, by propagating an atmosphere where weakness is not tolerated. To admit weakness is to admit that you're not fit to run for office...or something. And so it leads to apologists who can't admit the obvious. This is one reason I like Obama. His response isn't to ignore the truth or cover the truth up. But he doesn't lay his failings out there as if they are a weakness. When I debate, I won't give the point to the other person when I know that there are issues that my perspective cannot cure. There are always issue. Neither is it proper to forget them or act like they are actually strengths. The most important part of any debate is to make a better case. Do I have weaknesses? Sure. But as an aggregate my case is so much better than yours. That's what you should be saying in an argument. Does Obama have as much experience as McCain? No. So you argue that Obama will make the better decisions, rendering his weakness irrelevant. In a way it admits the weakness but doesn't make it a weakness for the candidate.
Of course that assumes that you have a strong case to begin with. This Palin thing is starting to make me wonder. If she was picked to simply play partisan hardball, then it's the sort of thing that makes me disillusioned with the entire party. And I have absolutely no problem with voting Republican myself if I think that's the more qualified candidate.
Mgoblue201 said:
I think this is a problematic argument for Obama to make, that running his campaign is somehow his experience, I mean, in a way, it makes sense, but it leaves him open to mocking from the other side. He should just stick to the argument of judgement vs. experience, especially if that Palin is so experienced, then she should be on top of the ticket instead of John McCain.
Interesting pre-speech polling (from AFP by way of Kos):
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g10yMHTRWB1ghQ8OLKEKxdHvWiQQ
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g10yMHTRWB1ghQ8OLKEKxdHvWiQQ
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Is CNN trying to say something?
worldrunover
Member
As McCain's advisor said, this election isn't about the issues, it's about personalities; and Palin's speech proved that last night.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar was just on MSNBC and she called out McCain's record very well, laying out how this sounds like more of the same from the McCain campaign.
She brought up how Palin and the other RNC speakers didn't address middle-class workers, everyday people.
Joe responded saying Palin is an everyday person, she's raised a family, etc.
The Republican line seems to be based on her character and personality rather than her record or McCain's. But if the liberal media calls them out on bringing the family into the spotlight it's the gender/sexism card.
Obama/Biden relate to working families and women by talking about issues and how to change the country through the enactment of policy.
McCain/Palin relate to them by making this appealing to the emotions of women voters.
I really don't see how independent, moderate voters, who by their nature weigh both sides carefully up until election day are going to be convinced.
Palin's record will always be there. Obama's policy will always be there, as it's been on his website in the PDF documentation.
The question is, will the country be willing to read through the PDFs (or know they are there), or will they say "I don't read very often and I don't care if the next ticket includes someone who has no issues banning books."
I hope America is smarter than that.
Note: When I said appealing to the emotions of women voters, I meant independent women voters. The Republican women are obviously energized and I did not mean to belittle them at all.
She brought up how Palin and the other RNC speakers didn't address middle-class workers, everyday people.
Joe responded saying Palin is an everyday person, she's raised a family, etc.
The Republican line seems to be based on her character and personality rather than her record or McCain's. But if the liberal media calls them out on bringing the family into the spotlight it's the gender/sexism card.
Obama/Biden relate to working families and women by talking about issues and how to change the country through the enactment of policy.
McCain/Palin relate to them by making this appealing to the emotions of women voters.
I really don't see how independent, moderate voters, who by their nature weigh both sides carefully up until election day are going to be convinced.
Palin's record will always be there. Obama's policy will always be there, as it's been on his website in the PDF documentation.
The question is, will the country be willing to read through the PDFs (or know they are there), or will they say "I don't read very often and I don't care if the next ticket includes someone who has no issues banning books."
I hope America is smarter than that.
Note: When I said appealing to the emotions of women voters, I meant independent women voters. The Republican women are obviously energized and I did not mean to belittle them at all.
Instigator
Banned
gamerecks said:
Is CNN trying to say something?
Sieg h...
lawblob said:
I worry about the fate of this country when the choice is effectively between milquetoasty moderate liberals, and corporate shills exploiting "traditional values".
There's no debate whatsoever in this country. Democrats are mostly pussies and Republicans are mostly insane. I'd like to see a real debate about gun ownership for instance. I think it's an important issue. Unfortunately, Republicans use it as a cultural wedge issue, and Democrats are mainly concerned with lowering crime. They're rarely challenged on grounds of civil liberties.
How can a representative democracy function when there's no real debate?
Then there's the media outlets who railroad everyone with their own styles and agendas. Even if politicians were reasonable, the majority of people wouldn't know because the media outlets will tell whatever story sells advertising.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked