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PoliGAF Thread of Republican's Turn at Conventions (Palin VP - READ OP)

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Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
syllogism said:
Something Awful raised $6000+ since Giuliani started speaking so it seems likely Obama had a good night on the donation front
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:lol Nice. I wonder if old people went to their computers and donated after Obama's speech.
 
G

GrapeApes

Member
lexdysia said:
Sen. Amy Klobuchar was just on MSNBC and she called out McCain's record very well, laying out how this sounds like more of the same from the McCain campaign.

Joe responded saying Palin is an everyday person, she's raised a family, etc.
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So far she's the only one who pointed out the lack of substance. I don't care if she's a mom, I want to hear something.

Joe's got a major hard on for Palin and Mika got's a wide on for her.
 
L

lexdysia

Banned
Also, as has been said here before, the Republicans appeal to the fearful nature of people.

Democrats believe in hope. The Republicans have mocked Obama for using that word but in the process I feel they are mocking the American people in the process.
 
L

Lemonz

Member
30utmyp.jpg
 
T

theBishop

Banned
I did some unscientific polling of PSN users who play Call of Duty 4 last night. Basically "What did you think of the speech tonight".

By far the most common response was "I'd like to throw one in her butt."

Somebody call Gallup!
 
T

theBishop

Banned
infiniteloop said:
I've been saving my Obama donation for McCain's speech .. I'll probably do it right at the end.
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I swore off donations after Obama voted for the FISA amendment. But the RNC is seriously tempting me.
 
D

Do The Mario

Unconfirmed Member
Superblatt said:
But, there are not lots of people with Constitutional Law degrees from Harvard. Is there anything at all that sets her apart from Joe-Shmo? I thought our world leaders are supposed to be the cream of the crop . I thought we've already seen what happens when they're not.
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Just to correct, there is no such thing as a constitutional law degree, Con Law is a standard part of all law courses. Obama has a Juris Doctor (JD) in law which is like a post graduate law degree (well it changes depending on the country).
 
I

Incognito

Troll
lexdysia said:
The Republicans have mocked Obama for using that word but in the process I feel they are mocking the American people in the process.
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That's been their whole strategy with the "celebrity," "messiah," and "the one" nonsense. They are not really criticisms of him -- they are aimed squarely at his supporters to try and suppress their voice. To get them to sit down and shut up. To make them embarrassed about their support for Obama.

It will not work. Whenever Obama is attacked on a scale like this, his supporters come through in spades. Remember the night in New Hampshire?
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Incognito said:
That's been their whole strategy with the "celebrity," "messiah," and "the one" nonsense. They are not really criticisms of him -- they are aimed squarely at his supporters to try and suppress their voice. To get them to sit down and shut up. To make them embarrassed about their support for Obama.

It will not work. Whenever Obama is attacked on a scale like this, his supporters come through in spades. Remember the night in New Hampshire?
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No, what happened?
 
M

mrmyth

Member
jmdajr said:
:lol
jolly good one

yeah I cant say either party give me exactly what I want. oh well.
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Sadly, he's right. Dems let themselves get painted as little bitches because a Dem fighting back in America is considered 'radical'. Pubbies get to be the default tough guys, so they use that power to tyr and get away with shit that makes any objective person bug their eyes out.

Try switching some of the shit we've heard from Palin over to the Obama campaign. Pubs have been attacking Michelle's patriotism because on one comment. Imagine if she actually joined a sececionist(sp?) group like Todd Palin. Or if Obama's 17-year-old daughter was pregnant. Or if Obama had his BIL fired during a custody battle. Or if asked for 197 milllion in earmarks for a town of 6400. Any one of these would kill his campaign.
 
G

gcubed

Member
VanMardigan said:
Far left gaf is still riled up from last night? Damn.




Me either. I wish it wasn't all about extremes.



What's that?
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classical conservative i would venture to guess is what a real conservative is, which i consider myself. Small government, free market, fiscal responsibility... which the currently form of the republican party most definitely is not
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Incognito said:
That's been their whole strategy with the "celebrity," "messiah," and "the one" nonsense. They are not really criticisms of him -- they are aimed squarely at his supporters to try and suppress their voice. To get them to sit down and shut up. To make them embarrassed about their support for Obama.

It will not work. Whenever Obama is attacked on a scale like this, his supporters come through in spades. Remember the night in New Hampshire?
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Hey, you read the Axelrod email too?
 
Xisiqomelir

Xisiqomelir

Member
Morning all. I edited my Palin fact-check post to include the later post with the categorizations, and added cross-index marks. Now when discussing Sarah's lies, you can refer to them by number!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12660544&postcount=11023

Okay, I can't believe I actually have to do this, but some of you are driving me insane with the "SHOW ME THE LIES SHE DIDNT LIE HAHAHA OBAMA GOT OWNED" retardation. Here are all the Palin lies and bullshit I could find in the NPR transcript in bold. Filler will be [/striked]

EDIT 9/4/08: Throwing in one of my posts from a little later in the thread to distinguish between plain untruths and vaguely fact-related prevarications.

To categorize, the plain lies are:

L1-Track Palin going to Iraq on Sept 11, 2008
L2-Palin's non-dealing with lobbyists
L3-Palin's opposition to federal earmarks
L4-Palin's opposition to the bridge to nowhere
L5-Obama not sponsoring IL state senate legislation
L6-Obama never using the word "victory"
L7-Obama raising taxes on the majority of the population
L8-Obama reducing American military strength
L9-Obama opposing increased energy production


and the dissemblings/equivocations/slanders are:

D1-Denigration of community organizers
D2-Bittergate
D3-"Media attack"
D4-Touting the balanced AK state budget, where she's only been governor 20 mo, when we have the example of the $20M Wasilla deficit after 6 years of her mayorship
D5-Imminent victory in Iraq
D6-Implying meetings without preconditions is naturally followed by total supplication
D7-Obama allowing terrorists to evade capture

Mr. Chairman, delegates, and fellow citizens: I am honored to be considered for the nomination for vice president of the United States.

I accept the call to help our nominee for president to serve and defend America.

I accept the challenge of a tough fight in this election against confident opponents at a crucial hour for our country.

And I accept the privilege of serving with a man who has come through much harder missions ... and met far graver challenges and knows how tough fights are won — the next president of the United States, John S. McCain.

It was just a year ago when all the experts in Washington counted out our nominee because he refused to hedge his commitment to the security of the country he loves.

With their usual certitude, they told us that all was lost — there was no hope for this candidate who said that he would rather lose an election than see his country lose a war.

But the pollsters and pundits overlooked just one thing when they wrote him off.

They overlooked the caliber of the man himself — the determination, resolve, and sheer guts of Sen. John McCain. The voters knew better.

And maybe that's because they realize there is a time for politics and a time for leadership ... a time to campaign and a time to put our country first.

Our nominee for president is a true profile in courage, and people like that are hard to come by.

He's a man who wore the uniform of this country for 22 years and refused to break faith with those troops in Iraq who have now brought victory within sight.

And as the mother of one of those troops, that is exactly the kind of man I want as commander in chief. I'm just one of many moms who'll say an extra prayer each night for our sons and daughters going into harm's way.

Our son Track is 19.

And one week from tomorrow — Sept. 11 — he'll deploy to Iraq (L1) with the Army infantry in the service of his country.
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He's going to Kuwait first

My nephew Kasey also enlisted and serves on a carrier in the Persian Gulf.

My family is proud of both of them and of all the fine men and women serving the country in uniform. Track is the eldest of our five children.

In our family, it's two boys and three girls in between — my strong and kind-hearted daughters, Bristol, Willow and Piper.

And in April, my husband, Todd, and I welcomed our littlest one into the world, a perfectly beautiful baby boy named Trig. From the inside, no family ever seems typical.

That's how it is with us.

Our family has the same ups and downs as any other — the same challenges and the same joys.

Sometimes even the greatest joys bring challenge.

And children with special needs inspire a special love.

To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters.

I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House. Todd is a story all by himself.

He's a lifelong commercial fisherman ... a production operator in the oil fields of Alaska's North Slope ... a proud member of the United Steel Workers Union ... and world champion snow machine racer.

Throw in his Yup'ik Eskimo ancestry, and it all makes for quite a package.

We met in high school, and two decades and five children later he's still my guy. My mom and dad both worked at the elementary school in our small town.

And among the many things I owe them is one simple lesson: that this is America, and every woman can walk through every door of opportunity.

My parents are here tonight, and I am so proud to be the daughter of Chuck and Sally Heath. Long ago, a young farmer and haberdasher from Missouri followed an unlikely path to the vice presidency.

A writer observed: "We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty, sincerity, and dignity." I know just the kind of people that writer had in mind when he praised Harry Truman.

I grew up with those people.

They are the ones who do some of the hardest work in America who grow our food, run our factories and fight our wars.

They love their country, in good times and bad, and they're always proud of America. I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town.

I was just your average hockey mom and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids' public education better.

When I ran for City Council, I didn't need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too.

Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown.

And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves.

I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities. (D1) I might add that in small towns, we don't quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren't listening.
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I think we all know this one by now

We tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco.(D2)
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What is this, a Pelosi dig? Obama does not change his message for venue. Obama does not denigrate voters.

As for my running mate, you can be certain that wherever he goes, and whoever is listening, John McCain is the same man. I'm not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I've learned quickly, these past few days, that if you're not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.(D3)
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This falls under "bullshit", rather than "lie". Here, the Republican nominee for VPOTUS complains of being asked questions about her background.

But here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinion. I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country. Americans expect us to go to Washington for the right reasons, and not just to mingle with the right people.

Politics isn't just a game of clashing parties and competing interests.

The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.

No one expects us to agree on everything.

But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and ... a servant's heart.

I pledge to all Americans that I will carry myself in this spirit as vice president of the United States. This was the spirit that brought me to the governor's office, when I took on the old politics as usual in Juneau ... when I stood up to the special interests, the lobbyists, big oil companies, and the good-ol' boys network.(L2)
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Read all about Palin's relationship with Ted Stevens/Jack Abramoff lobbyist Steven Silver here

Sudden and relentless reform never sits well with entrenched interests and power brokers. That's why true reform is so hard to achieve.

But with the support of the citizens of Alaska, we shook things up.

And in short order we put the government of our state back on the side of the people.

I came to office promising major ethics reform, to end the culture of self-dealing. And today, that ethics reform is the law.

While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for.

That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay.

I also drive myself to work.

And I thought we could muddle through without the governor's personal chef — although I've got to admit that sometimes my kids sure miss her. I came to office promising to control spending — by request if possible and by veto if necessary.


Sen. McCain also promises to use the power of veto in defense of the public interest — and as a chief executive, I can assure you it works.

Our state budget is under control.(D4)
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But the Wasilla budget ended up $20M in the red. Palin was Wasilla mayor for 6 years, she's only had 20 months to tear into the AK budget.

We have a surplus.

And I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending: nearly half a billion dollars in vetoes.

I suspended the state fuel tax and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress.(L3)
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Palin received $27M of federal money as mayor of Wasilla, and requested $198M as Gov of AK.

http://wcco.com/politics/reality.check.governor.2.808822.html

I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere.
(L4)
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palin-nowhere.jpg

If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves. When oil and gas prices went up dramatically, and filled up the state treasury, I sent a large share of that revenue back where it belonged — directly to the people of Alaska.

And despite fierce opposition from oil company lobbyists, who kind of liked things the way they were, we broke their monopoly on power and resources.

As governor, I insisted on competition and basic fairness to end their control of our state and return it to the people.

I fought to bring about the largest private-sector infrastructure project in North American history.

And when that deal was struck, we began a nearly 40 billion-dollar natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence.

That pipeline, when the last section is laid and its valves are opened, will lead America one step farther away from dependence on dangerous foreign powers that do not have our interests at heart.

The stakes for our nation could not be higher.

When a hurricane strikes in the Gulf of Mexico, this country should not be so dependent on imported oil that we are forced to draw from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

And families cannot throw away more and more of their paychecks on gas and heating oil.

With Russia wanting to control a vital pipeline in the Caucasus, and to divide and intimidate our European allies by using energy as a weapon, we cannot leave ourselves at the mercy of foreign suppliers.

To confront the threat that Iran might seek to cut off nearly a fifth of world energy supplies ... or that terrorists might strike again at the Abqaiq facility in Saudi Arabia ... or that Venezuela might shut off its oil deliveries ... we Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas.

And take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: We've got lots of both.

Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems — as if we all didn't know that already.

But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all.

Starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more pipelines ... build more nuclear plants ... create jobs with clean coal ... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal and other alternative sources.

We need American energy resources, brought to you by American ingenuity, and produced by American workers. I've noticed a pattern with our opponent.

Maybe you have, too.

We've all heard his dramatic speeches before devoted followers.

And there is much to like and admire about our opponent.

But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state Senate.(L5)
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King_slender proves he has a use to this forum by carrying his tag

This is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting and never use the word "victory" except when he's talking about his own campaign.(L6)
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Obama is committed to capturing bin Laden (unlike...George W. Bush), and has spoken of "victory against al-Qaida" on multiple public occasions.

But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed ... when the roar of the crowd fades away ... when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot — what exactly is our opponent's plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger ... take more of your money(L7)
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tax_chart_2.gif


... give you more orders from Washington ... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world(L8). America needs more energy ... our opponent is against producing it.(L9)
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http://www.barackobama.com/issues/defense/

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

Victory in Iraq is finally in sight(D5) ... he wants to forfeit.
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:lol :lol :lol

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay ... he wants to meet them without preconditions.(D6)
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Dissembling rather than outright lying here. The implication is that Obama will pander and bend over backwards for rogue states. The reality (repeated multiple times), is that Obama will use diplomacy as a first resort, and save military intervention as a last resort.

Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America ... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights?(D7) Government is too big ... he wants to grow it.
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I'd just class this as "bullshit".

Congress spends too much ... he promises more.

Taxes are too high ... he wants to raise them. His tax increases are the fine print in his economic plan, and let me be specific.

The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes (L7)... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars(L7). My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business — like millions of others who run small businesses.
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See above.

How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up? Or maybe you're trying to keep your job at a plant in Michigan or Ohio ... or create jobs with clean coal from Pennsylvania or West Virginia ... or keep a small farm in the family right here in Minnesota.

How are you going to be better off if our opponent adds a massive tax burden to the American economy? Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election.

In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers.

And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change.

They're the ones whose names appear on laws and landmark reforms, not just on buttons and banners, or on self-designed presidential seals.

Among politicians, there is the idealism of high-flown speechmaking, in which crowds are stirringly summoned to support great things.

And then there is the idealism of those leaders, like John McCain, who actually do great things. They're the ones who are good for more than talk ... the ones we have always been able to count on to serve and defend America. Sen. McCain's record of actual achievement and reform helps explain why so many special interests, lobbyists and comfortable committee chairmen in Congress have fought the prospect of a McCain presidency — from the primary election of 2000 to this very day.

Our nominee doesn't run with the Washington herd.

He's a man who's there to serve his country, and not just his party.

A leader who's not looking for a fight, but is not afraid of one either. Harry Reid, the majority leader of the current do-nothing Senate, not long ago summed up his feelings about our nominee.

He said, quote, "I can't stand John McCain." Ladies and gentlemen, perhaps no accolade we hear this week is better proof that we've chosen the right man. Clearly what the majority leader was driving at is that he can't stand up to John McCain. That is only one more reason to take the maverick of the Senate and put him in the White House. My fellow citizens, the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of "personal discovery." This world of threats and dangers is not just a community, and it doesn't just need an organizer.

And though both Sen. Obama and Sen. Biden have been going on lately about how they are always, quote, "fighting for you," let us face the matter squarely.

There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you ... in places where winning means survival and defeat means death ... and that man is John McCain. In our day, politicians have readily shared much lesser tales of adversity than the nightmare world in which this man, and others equally brave, served and suffered for their country.

It's a long way from the fear and pain and squalor of a 6-by-4 cell in Hanoi to the Oval Office.

But if Sen. McCain is elected president, that is the journey he will have made.

It's the journey of an upright and honorable man — the kind of fellow whose name you will find on war memorials in small towns across this country, only he was among those who came home.

To the most powerful office on Earth, he would bring the compassion that comes from having once been powerless ... the wisdom that comes even to the captives, by the grace of God ... the special confidence of those who have seen evil, and seen how evil is overcome. A fellow prisoner of war, a man named Tom Moe of Lancaster, Ohio, recalls looking through a pinhole in his cell door as Lt. Cmdr. John McCain was led down the hallway, by the guards, day after day.

As the story is told, "When McCain shuffled back from torturous interrogations, he would turn toward Moe's door and flash a grin and thumbs up" — as if to say, "We're going to pull through this." My fellow Americans, that is the kind of man America needs to see us through these next four years.

For a season, a gifted speaker can inspire with his words.

For a lifetime, John McCain has inspired with his deeds.

If character is the measure in this election ... and hope the theme ... and change the goal we share, then I ask you to join our cause. Join our cause and help America elect a great man as the next president of the United States.

Thank you all, and may God bless America."
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B

bionic77

Member
theBishop said:
I worry about the fate of this country when the choice is effectively between milquetoasty moderate liberals, and corporate shills exploiting "traditional values".

There's no debate whatsoever in this country. Democrats are mostly pussies and Republicans are mostly insane. I'd like to see a real debate about gun ownership for instance. I think it's an important issue. Unfortunately, Republicans use it as a cultural wedge issue, and Democrats are mainly concerned with lowering crime. They're rarely challenged on grounds of civil liberties.

How can a representative democracy function when there's no real debate?

Then there's the media outlets who railroad everyone with their own styles and agendas. Even if politicians were reasonable, the majority of people wouldn't know because the media outlets will tell whatever story sells advertising.
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I 100% agree with you. The debate has become so incredibly stupid and amazingly people are falling for it and the media perpetuates it.

I mean I don't give a shit that Palin has 5 kids or was the mayor of some hick town. That is really irrelevant to me and I don't see how Obama having a degree from Harvard is a negative. I really don't care who McCain is married to, how many houses he had, or what his war record is. That is all irrelevant to me. I want to know what they are going to do as President and if they accomplish it.

I am open minded and wouldn't mind voting for a Republican if they hadn't already fucked up everything over the last 8 years. They turned a surplus into a huge deficit and started an unnecessary war. That is enough for me to want a change. I won't get the change I want (balanced budget, smaller military, healthcare reform and cost control), but more of the same clearly isn't the answer either.
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
theBishop said:
I worry about the fate of this country when the choice is effectively between milquetoasty moderate liberals, and corporate shills exploiting "traditional values".

There's no debate whatsoever in this country. Democrats are mostly pussies and Republicans are mostly insane. I'd like to see a real debate about gun ownership for instance. I think it's an important issue. Unfortunately, Republicans use it as a cultural wedge issue, and Democrats are mainly concerned with lowering crime. They're rarely challenged on grounds of civil liberties.

How can a representative democracy function when there's no real debate?

Then there's the media outlets who railroad everyone with their own styles and agendas. Even if politicians were reasonable, the majority of people wouldn't know because the media outlets will tell whatever story sells advertising.
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After last night, you should realize why real debate has essentially become impossible an infeasible. I mean, how do you debate with what you saw last night? Really, how? Last night's speeches collectively lowered the discourse in such a painful and depressing way. I mean, haven't you heard? Travelling abroad is now bad and unpatriotic. Obama brought back European cooties with him. Democrats were called out for not mentioning 9/11 during their convention. The very idea of discussing rights of a detainee makes you a terrorist sympathiser and somebody to be spit at. Obama has nuanced and thought out views on a variety of subjects, realizing that there's alot of grey areas and compromises need to be made to attain the 'right' solution. But with the tactic of these fucknuts to deliver false, hyperbolic, sensational, and fear-mongering drivel appealing to the lowest common denominator- basically making the country stupider, and less receptive to ANY kind of debate.

You know the saying- You can never argue with a fool,. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Yesterday proved that. There was nothing 'debatable' about what was said, because it was all calculated bullshit. We shall see just how receptive Americans still are to this- to being treated with contempt and thought of as fools.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
worldrunover said:
Dems really towing that "don't make waves, talk about the issues!" line. How'd that work for Kerry again?

Four years is so long ago... but just look at the keynote speakers: Barack Obama vs. Zell Miller. They do this stuff because it works.
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Yeah, I kinda agree. I'm hoping they're just holding back for a few days to avoid looking like they're piling on (with all the recent 'gates).
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Incognito said:
?
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t's now clear that John McCain's campaign has decided that desperate lies and personal attacks -- on Barack Obama and on you -- are the only way they can earn a third term for the Bush policies that McCain has supported more than 90 percent of the time.
But you can send a crystal clear message.
Enough is enough. Make your voice heard loud and clear by making a donation right now:
https://donate.barackobama.com/fightback
Thank you for joining more than 2 million ordinary Americans who refuse to be silenced.

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
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It seemed to line up with your post about McCain going after Obama supporters and trying to silence them.

I don't know about you, but I get David Plouffe emails. You must be really plugged in.
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Yeah, my bad, it was Plouffe
 
B

Barrett2

Member
gcubed said:
classical conservative i would venture to guess is what a real conservative is, which i consider myself. Small government, free market, fiscal responsibility... which the currently form of the republican party most definitely is not
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This. By Classical Conservative I basically mean Classical Liberalism, which is the technical term, though nobody uses that phrase any more because people are too stupid to know what it means.

Basically, smaller government, fiscal responsibility, primacy of personal property rights, etc. Ironically, Bill Clinton's Presidency was probably most in-line with this philosophy compared to most recent presidents.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
gkrykewy said:
Yeah, I kinda agree. I'm hoping they're just holding back for a few days to avoid looking like they're piling on (with all the recent 'gates).
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I thought Obama did a good job of vigorously attacking his opponents on substantive issues during his acceptance speech. The Democrats definitely milked the "McCain has zomg 1 bajillion houses!" shtick (too far imo), but ultimately that comes back to a substantive discussion about McCain's economic policy.

When Sarah Palin attacks Obama for having Greek pillars behind him, what is that? Tort reform?
 
Z

Zabka

Member
gkrykewy said:
Yeah, I kinda agree. I'm hoping they're just holding back for a few days to avoid looking like they're piling on (with all the recent 'gates).
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I think they'll let the media go to work on Palin. From watching Biden this morning, I think he's going to talk her up so that she won't be going into the VP debate as an underdog who can claim victory just because she wasn't embarassed.

Unless he takes a big dip in the polls, the Obama/Biden camp will stick to trying to shape the debate narrative.
 
H

Huzah

Member
Well hopefully when Obama wins, it gives the GOP the kick in the ass it needs to question wtf it's trying to go with its party. It took Bill Clinton to get Newt fired up, but to bad Obama a lot more left leaning than good old Bill and combined a democratic congress alot of damage could be done that need to be repaired.
 
L

lexdysia

Banned
How can Palin say that Obama just wants to "read [the detainees] their rights"?

I'm sure the Vietnamese did not read McCain his rights, subjecting him to all sorts of terrible things.

What a despicable line of "reasoning."
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Zabka said:
I think they'll let the media go to work on Palin. From watching Biden this morning, I think he's going to talk her up so that she won't be going into the VP debate as an underdog who can claim victory just because she wasn't embarassed.

Unless he takes a big dip in the polls, the Obama/Biden camp will stick to trying to shape the debate narrative.
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I agree this is a big factor. Thus far, the nuances of the post-Palin polls have been playing right into Obama's hands. Unless that changes following her speech, there's not really a need to bloody their hands.
 
S

syllogism

Member
Huzah said:
Well hopefully when Obama wins, it gives the GOP the kick in the ass it needs to question wtf it's trying to go with its party. It took Bill Clinton to get Newt fired up, but to bad Obama a lot more left leaning than good old Bill and combined a democratic congress alot of damage could be done that need to be repaired.
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Sadly nothing is going to change with Palin as the star of the party
 
G

GuessWho

Member
Obama will win, he HAS too.

btw, anybody have that pic of some british journal the day after bush got reelected. It went something like how can 300 million people be so dumb.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Kolgar said:
Good job, Palin. I think there was a LOT of pressure on her and she did surprisingly well in front of a national audience.

That said, it was a speech, not an interview, and tougher days lie ahead for her. Especially since she came out swinging; she's pretty much made herself fair game now.

Whatever your feelings about the woman, her speech sure made for great television. Bravo! I haven't enjoyed politics like this in, well, ever.
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I can agree with this. She did fine. Lots and lots of red meat and zingers. Lightweight stuff. She does seem a little vacant, even when trying to sound stern, and she's still completely wrong on the issues that matter so yeah, at least she didn't fuck up her speech.
 
M

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
capslock said:
I think this is a problematic argument for Obama to make, that running his campaign is somehow his experience, I mean, in a way, it makes sense, but it leaves him open to mocking from the other side. He should just stick to the argument of judgement vs. experience, especially if that Palin is so experienced, then she should be on top of the ticket instead of John McCain.
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Experience and judgment are closely related. Experience can lead to judgment. The opposite isn't true, of course, since experience only comes with time, and experience is useless unless there is judgment. I haven't really heard Obama make that case, at least stridently, but I think that he can at least say that his campaign proves he has the necessary requirements, that by coming this far, he proved that he has built what it takes. That is something that requires time and a little experimentation. That he keeps getting better and better at it is a stroke in his favor.

Incognito said:
That's been their whole strategy with the "celebrity," "messiah," and "the one" nonsense. They are not really criticisms of him -- they are aimed squarely at his supporters to try and suppress their voice. To get them to sit down and shut up. To make them embarrassed about their support for Obama.

It will not work. Whenever Obama is attacked on a scale like this, his supporters come through in spades. Remember the night in New Hampshire?
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That actually sounds apt, but I think that they do drive away some voters. People still want someone who's relatable. George Bush ran on that quite well, where as Kerry seemed emotionally distant. A celebrity seems out of touch, and a messiah is divisive and bates the populace into destroying him. By painting the established base as fanatical, it separates outsiders who will look at the base and won't get it. Perhaps they think that they can silence people. But the easiest way to get people to speak up is to attack their convictions. I would say that it does appear that Obama has certainly built up a fanbase, but I think that Obama is also very easy to relate to when he speaks and you get to know him. Going after Obama the community organizer doesn't help.
 
K

Kildace

Member
MrPing1000 said:
Oh ffs I can't watch the daily show online from the Uk anymore. I could yesterday, wtf :/
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Still works in France, you scared me, my daily routine when I come home is watching the previous day's Daily Show and Colbert Report ...
 
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