maximum360
Member
Cheebs said:
Fineman's okay. I just hate the fact that he pushes the "Obama is arrogant" argument every time he's on the air.
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PoliGAF Thread of Republican's Turn at Conventions (Palin VP - READ OP)
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Fineman's okay. I just hate the fact that he pushes the "Obama is arrogant" argument every time he's on the air.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I don't think the we can really have a really meaningful argument about a VP's worth while in office until we actually see them in office. In a post-Cheney American politics, we will probably see the VP take a greater role in things no matter who gets elected. Now, if we're talking about the reality of a VP moving up to fill in for the President in the case that it's necessary, I don't think there's much argument on why it does actually matter who seems fit for that possibility. We are not in a 'caretaker' President cycle...no coasting is going to be acceptable here.
theviolenthero
Member
For those that don't have HBO like me, Bill Mahers show yesterday has been up-loaded to youtube.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
MightyHedgehog said:
I think, and rightfully so, this isn't a question about the value of a VP, but the nature and process of a Presidential candidate's decision making.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
hitokage, you're overusing and misusing the term cognitive dissonance.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#26462525Cheebs said:
No, I'm not. People are being forced to rationalize their support for the republican ticket against the new information of McCain's pick for vice-president, and would rather jump through mental hoops like "she's a mother of five, that's experience enough!" than admit their support is less justified in any way and insist she's a perfect candidate.PantherLotus said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
Certainly, and the quality of that decision is directly reflected in the perceived quality of the pick...in the perceived quality of the VP as a working position and not just some hat-trick political stunt that only works until elected. It's both and I think Obama picked well. Earlier, someone, I think, correctly pointed out Obama picked mostly based on how to better achieve his goals once in office, while McCain picked based on how to better his chances to get elected.BenjaminBirdie said:
isnt the national guard supposed to be doing this? how much of the guard from these areas is in iraq?
http://www.legitgov.org/blackwater_mercenary_call_for_gustav.html
http://www.legitgov.org/blackwater_mercenary_call_for_gustav.html
maximum360
Member
The democratic convention in a minute: http://www.236.com/video/2008/watch_the_democratic_conventio_8594.php
Stoney Mason
Banned
PantherLotus said:
1.) Experience along with judgement in whatever vague sense is the #1 priority for why you should select John Mccain according to his campaign theme.
2.) For the position that might need to take over for President (and not mentioning that he would be the oldest president ever elected) he tapped someone with very little experience in general and no deep foreign policy.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Hitokage said:
Okay, I guess. I didn't get what internal conflict they were overcoming, but that makes sense. Either way, you're overusing it when there are plenty of other terms like:
groupthink
doublethink
bullshitting
lying
etc
Smiles and Cries
Member
looters am shot by trigger happy ninjas news at 11basik said:
60 Minutes Interview w/ Obama and Biden
Obama says Biden is ready to step in and be president.
He also says McCain's vice presidential choice is an "up and coming public servant."
Obama says Biden is ready to step in and be president.
He also says McCain's vice presidential choice is an "up and coming public servant."
Not saying this carries a lot of weight or anything, but it is interesting to note that when McCain and Palin came to Washigton, PA today... there was no Hillary love. Palin gave thanks to Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton for paving the way. As soon as "Hillary Clinton" came out of her mouth, the whole place started booing. In a Hillary county in a swing state where McCain thinks he can scoop up some bitter Hillarycrats. Just sayin'.
Obama, you're being too nice... what if Palin starts to impress a lot of people and his campaign has to start being critical of her?lexdysia said:
maximum360
Member
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Hitokage said:
and they all apply
Wow. The rally in Dublin, Ohio was really awesome. Absolutely huge crowd. Filled a pretty large high school arena including 75% of the field.
Obama's speech was mostly stump + a few of the saying he threw together for the Thursday. Biden's speech was very solid too, citing multiple foreign policy examples where Obama's position opposed McCain was later validated by later facts. Biden got into a really good flow with the chorus line "John McCain was wrong, Barack Obama was right!"
Overally, they've really put together a tight message against McCain. He's citing a lot of specific policy proposals, but was very clear in stating opposition to McCain. Overall, this machine is way better oiled for attacks then it was a week ago.
Obama's speech was mostly stump + a few of the saying he threw together for the Thursday. Biden's speech was very solid too, citing multiple foreign policy examples where Obama's position opposed McCain was later validated by later facts. Biden got into a really good flow with the chorus line "John McCain was wrong, Barack Obama was right!"
Overally, they've really put together a tight message against McCain. He's citing a lot of specific policy proposals, but was very clear in stating opposition to McCain. Overall, this machine is way better oiled for attacks then it was a week ago.
Stoney Mason
Banned
maximum360 said:
Epic win.
No, lying is when you know the truth but consciously decide to make statements to the contrary. Groupthink is when your faction has an unhealthy influence on your decisions, which is closer but not really the same thing.PantherLotus said:
However, you may be close with doublethink, which is a way of resolving cognitive dissonance that accepts and compartmentalizes both contradicting pieces of information, but my post mentioned those who resolve it by denying her lack of experience rather than accepting it.
typhonsentra
Banned
That's beautiful.maximum360 said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Diablos said:
Amen. McCain's campaign took a big revamp and he wound up benefiting greatly. It's good to see Obama adapting without resorting to blatant lies. Biden really adds some balls to the ticket. McCain is looking rather vulnerable right now: perfect time to strike.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Juice said:
Yeah 19,000 people were there with you today. That's more than you said had tickets.
NullPointer
Member
Diablos said:
I dunno. Palin seems like the kind of choice that will implode on its own. I don't see a need for Dems to go on the offense and break out the pitchforks.
Once Republicans settle into their safe little "the world is a dangerous place filled with terrorists, rogue regimes, and thawing cold war conflicts", 24 hour all-fear-all-the-time cycle, people will see this all in a different light - and not one that's beneficial to the Republican ticket.
In this age of Global Wars on Terror, government continuity is a lot closer to peoples minds than it has been in a while.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
In my opinion, the CNN specials on McCain and Obama are much better than the ones FOXNEWS did.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Then you hit her on her policies and that's an easy target since she represents not only McCain's own shared views with the unpopular outgoing Bush administration, but also the social conservatives/religious right. If anything, I think McCain's choice of Palin makes it even easier to fight through simple compare and contrast. No Dem has to get nasty when McCain made it easier to paint his position as effectively more of the same. All of the bulletpoints about Palin can be worked over by Dems simply because she, like McCain, represents the same old shit that's thrown away all of the progress made in the Clinton years. If they do it right, it shouldn't be difficult to discredit the reformer image McCain needs to have in order to win. Just hammering based on the record should be good enough.Diablos said:
Agreed, but just remember: Her numbers are about as bad as what Dan Quayle had. Did that stop him from becoming VP for four years? Nope.NullPointer said:
That doesn't take a whole lot of effort, and it still doesn't exclude CNN from having one of the worst years of political coverage I have ever seen.UltimaKilo said:
Yes, but this is assuming she continues to poll poorly. She could very well get a legitimate convention bounce if she gives a compelling speech and continues to campaign hard. Obama might be better off keeping the more brutal cards close to his chest, but he shouldn't forget about them.MightyHedgehog said:
Remember the only thing that a VP needs to do on the ticket is "Do no harm", so you don't care about how much she impresses or what her personal life is, you just make the case that McCain now represents risk, in judgement, temperament, and unwillingness to change. In trying to take some silly play for the female vote, McCain made his ticket the risky one, or at least negated any risk people associated with Obama.
Diablos: Bush41 could've nominated a potted plant for VP and still won off Reagan's coattails and against Dukakis.
Diablos: Bush41 could've nominated a potted plant for VP and still won off Reagan's coattails and against Dukakis.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Diablos said:
Have you seen them both?
Stoney Mason
Banned
Diablos said:
As I said earlier its not so simple as just pounding her. Especially from the lips of Obama. She doesn't have much of a record to go after for one and the fact that she is a historic women for GOP politics does carry some weight. It can also very easily backfire. I thought he played it perfectly. She has to say something and start backing up Mccain's opinions before you start attacking so its substanative attacks and it's not just knee jerk attacks.
Anyone read this yet?
http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2008/08/inside-an-rnc-r.html
It seems the police are detaining those who are going to protest at the RNC convention.
The GOP is getting really desperate, and I don't think I want to know what they would do on November to suppress voter turnout.
http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2008/08/inside-an-rnc-r.html
It seems the police are detaining those who are going to protest at the RNC convention.
The GOP is getting really desperate, and I don't think I want to know what they would do on November to suppress voter turnout.
Your right. The Obama Campaign even admitted they had been working on gathering a ton of material on pawlenty and Romney. When Palin was announced they could hardly find anything.Stoney Mason said:
She is not easy to dig up dirt on. At least on topics they want to attack. Going after the kid stuff will be a big no no and They arent gonna attack her for a tax on oil companies while saying she is best friend with big oil.
NullPointer
Member
Stoney Mason said:
This.
I think the Obama campaign is letting this thing sink in a little - giving it some time to breathe. I really do think this choice was so blatantly manipulative that McCain/Palin will dig their own hole soon enough.
Once again, I long for the damn debates to start. We NEED to see all of these characters on the same stage, responding to questions and to each other.
All of this pomp and circumstance is just an overly long prelude.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
NullPointer said:
Oh it's going to implode alright.
"Palin booed for mentioning Hillary Clinton"
So, recovery = the only other sentences she's been briefed on.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/351293/palin_on_ron_paul_right_on_
Ironic thing to say, although she seems to kinda be idealogically opposed to Paul.
Ironic thing to say, although she seems to kinda be idealogically opposed to Paul.
The Librarian
Banned
It's Fox News...UltimaKilo said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
Most polling doesn't mean shit, IMO. They may serve as a somewhat decent indicator of a general feeling for a moment, but it's fleeting and ultimately not something to base attack opportunities off of. I don't think a more forceful message is ever off the table, but I do think that with almost two months before election day and the debates still yet to come, the plan should be to escalate the core message and not darken it. Just amplifying the differences between the two choices will be successful enough while waiting for McCain/Palin to expose a weakness in their own attack. A serious counter-punch or two is definitely in the cards from Obama/Biden before election day.Diablos said:
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
obama's handling of the palin thing is smart politics.
attacking the ridiculousness of it would just heat things up, show that he feels threatened and insinuate that maybe mccain has a chance now, that sort of thing.
this way, like somebody said, the palin thing will implode on itself. very smart. shows why i could never be a politician or a campaigner because i'd attack right away out of impulse
attacking the ridiculousness of it would just heat things up, show that he feels threatened and insinuate that maybe mccain has a chance now, that sort of thing.
this way, like somebody said, the palin thing will implode on itself. very smart. shows why i could never be a politician or a campaigner because i'd attack right away out of impulse
Arde5643 said:
Small world. The blog is by Lindsay Beyerstein, daughter of Barry Beyerstein, Professor at Simon Fraser U. here in Vancouver who passed away last year.
He taught a wonderful psych class where I was a student (though I wasn't a Psych major) about human cognitive errors which delves into everything from belief in ghosts to faith healing.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Tamanon said:
Paul is the type of Republican some Republicans (use to)like to give lip service to because he embodies most of their ideals. The fact that the actual party though is so far away their actual professed ideals is always the problem and when they actually achieve any prominence they tend to disavow or quantify any such praise.
Kuncinich functions roughly the same way on the left.
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