Support NeoGAF

[UltimaKilo]

People thought this would happen in 2004.

Saddam Hussein was caught in late 2003, is that close enough?

EDIT: Plus, just about a month or so President Bush sent more American and British Special forces for one final push on Bin Laden. Obviously he is looking towards a legacy, but it could go either way politically.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yup, that was it. I've been trying to catch up on this thread each night after PAX and it's gotten big fast so I couldn't remember who said what. That hit me as the most astute and succinct analysis of the veep selections.

 

[Tamanon]

I know this may sound cynical and a long shot, but what if President Bush (now that he is making one final push to get Bin-Laden) has a press conference on October 20th and announces: "Osama Bin Laden has been captured/killed"?

Spoiler

this is a question someone asked me yesterday which I had no answer to.

No clue, I don't see how it would change much. On one hand it'd be an empty victory for the War on Terror, on the other hand by that time McCain will be in full-on Bush denial mode.

 

[reilo]

Saddam Hussein was caught in late 2003, is that close enough?

Hillary Clinton was the front-runner a year ago.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I know this may sound cynical and a long shot, but what if President Bush (now that he is making one final push to get Bin-Laden) has a press conference on October 20th and announces: "Osama Bin Laden has been captured/killed"?

This is a long shot by all accounts

1. Bin Laden (if alive) is in Pakistan and we have had a firm commitment to not enter Pakistani territory.
2. Pakistan is in the middle of a political implosion. The current government doesn't have the will or the power to help with any last minute gimme wins for Bush.

 

[Yaweee]

People thought this would happen in 2004.

And 2002, and 2006.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Because obviously McCain is above using politics to determine who should serve in really important positions in government.

It's a reach to say that McCain would govern as ineptly as Bush. Promoting bad policies yes, but his competence is a matter of conjecture.

Again, what I am saying is that I don't like the weak rationale for Gustav being an anti-McCain talking point.

 

[UltimaKilo]

No clue, I don't see how it would change much. On one hand it'd be an empty victory for the War on Terror, on the other hand by that time McCain will be in full-on Bush denial mode.

I doubt he will be completely shunning Bush, he just can't. I think he would love to after all the things the Bush 2000 campaign said about him and his adopted daughter, but it would be political suicide.

 

[maximum360]

I can't remember who it was, but someone here said Obama picked someone to help him govern, while McCain picked someone to help him get elected. I thought that really nailed the essence of their respective decision making processes.

This is where irony comes into play. Rove said that Obama would choose someone to help him get elected (like Kaine or Bayh). Basically it would be a choice for pure political gain as either of them would probably help Obama carry that state in Nov. It'll be interesting to hear what backpedaling Rove does this week since Obama picked someone to help him govern while McCain made the rash choice and picked someone (he thinks) that will help him win.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

bush in mid-summer stepped up military operations to in hopes bin laden was captured before his term was up, but right away the border restrictions were so clusterfucked nothing really came out of it. it's probably still going on right now though.

 

[Tamanon]

This is where irony comes into play. Rove said that Obama would choose someone to help him get elected (like Kaine or Bayh). Basically it would be a choice for pure political gain as either of them would probably help Obama carry that state in Nov. It'll be interesting to hear what backpedaling Rove does this week since Obama picked someone to help him govern while McCain made the rash choice and picked someone (he thinks) that will help him win.

You mean....this awesome Rove quote?

"With all due respect, again, to Governor Kaine, he's been a governor for three years. He's been able, but undistinguished. I don't think people could really name a big, important thing that he's done. He was mayor of the 105th-largest city in America. And, again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it's smaller than Chula Vista, California, Aurora, Colorado, Mesa or Gilbert, Arizona, North Las Vegas, or Henderson, Nevada. It's not a big town. If he were to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice, where he's said, 'You know what? I'm really not first and foremost concerned with, is this person capable of being president of the United States? What I'm concerned about is, can he bring me the electoral votes of the state of Virginia, the 13 electoral votes in Virginia?'"

Good lord! That could almost be used to describe.....hrm.....

 

[UltimaKilo]

Hillary Clinton was the front-runner a year ago.

Point well taken.

This is a long shot by all accounts

1. Bin Laden (if alive) is in Pakistan and we have had a firm commitment to not enter Pakistani territory.
2. Pakistan is in the middle of a political implosion. The current government doesn't have the will or the power to help with any last minute gimme wins for Bush.

But let's say he is alive, and the special forces "work in the shadows" and somehow get him without collapsing the Pakistani government, what political implications would this have? It could actually help either candidate, but of course it would simply be a Bush victory.

 

[Mandark]

It's a reach to say that McCain would govern as ineptly as Bush. Promoting bad policies yes, but his competence is a matter of conjecture.

Again, what I am saying is that I don't like the weak rationale for Gustav being an anti-McCain talking point.

McCain doesn't have a reputation as a details guy or someone with enough familiarity with most domestic issues to know when someone's bullshitting him.

Other than a couple pet issues like campaign finance or earmarks I don't see McCain outperforming Bush by big margins.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

It'll be interesting to hear what backpedaling Rove does this week since Obama picked someone to help him govern while McCain made the rash choice and picked someone (he thinks) that will help him win.

he already did on hannity and colmes lastnight. he pulled the "b-b-but shes got gubernatorial experience" card, which i'm sure they'll all be doing from here on out.

 

[Tamanon]

Point well taken.



But let's say he is alive, and the special forces "work in the shadows" and somehow get him without collapsing the Pakistani government, what political implications would this have? It could actually help either candidate, but of course it would simply be a Bush victory.

If it was due to a covert strike in Pakistan then it'd be an Obama win, because he was lambasted by McCain and Clinton both for suggesting surgical strikes of covert or military forces into Pakistan

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I know this may sound cynical and a long shot, but what if President Bush (now that he is making one final push to get Bin-Laden) has a press conference on October 20th and announces: "Osama Bin Laden has been captured/killed"?

Spoiler

this is a question someone asked me yesterday which I had no answer to.

BREAKING NEWS!

Osama bin Laden found hiding in Alaska

Spoiler

(near Russia)

, thanks to intel from Sarah Palin.

 

[electricpirate]

You mean....this awesome Rove quote?



Good lord! That could almost be used to describe.....hrm.....

Holy crap, I hope someone throws that up in his face.

Though, in Palin's defense, her eyebrows didn't take a seat at the table.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Where is the adopted McCain?

 

[Tamanon]

Where is the adopted McCain?

She's never in any pictures. Meghan's the only one they parade around.

 

[UltimaKilo]

If it was due to a covert strike in Pakistan then it'd be an Obama win, because he was lambasted by McCain and Clinton both for suggesting surgical strikes of covert or military forces into Pakistan

The way I see it as an Obama victory is if McCain distances himself too much with the President and then the President delivers Bin Laden. Of course I don't think it would be an air strike because then that would be admitting to invading Pakistan and the government would likely collapse.

 

[VanMardigan]

Hillary Clinton was the front-runner a year ago.

And Rudy Guliani too, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Arde5643]

Quite interesting - a collection of the current media (newspaper) backlash towards Palin:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/the-backlash-cometh-msm-opeds.php

A couple of choice quotes:

She is younger and less experienced than the first-term Illinois senator, and brings an ethical shadow to the ticket. Just 20 months ago, she was mayor of Wasia, Alaska, a town of 6,500 where the biggest issue is controlling growth and the biggest annual worry is whether there will be enough snow for the Iditarod dog-mushing race… Palin’s lack of experience flies in the face of GOP charges that Obama is not ready to be commander in chief. McCain himself has said he was determined to avoid a pick like Dan Quayle, the little-known Indiana senator George H.W. Bush put on his ticket in 1988 in a choice that proved embarrassing…But, as McCain suggested himself, his 72nd birthday is a reminder that age and experience matter.

Palin doesn’t exactly scream “experience,” which is McCain’s main argument against Obama. For a decade she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which has a population of approximately 8,471, which the Obama campaign says is less than 1/20th the size of his former state senate district. Palin has been governor for two years. Some might argue that in terms of experience she makes Obama look like Robert Byrd. In July, Palin told CNBC’s Larry Kudlow that “as for that VP talk all the time, I tell ya, I still can’t answer that question until, until somebody answers for me ‘What it is exactly that the vice president does every day?”

 

[UltimaKilo]

She's never in any pictures. Meghan's the only one they parade around.

I was actually able to meet her once at a private fund raiser. I didn't have a full conversation with her or anything, but I did have a drink near her and was able to make a couple of comments, and she is pretty. I wanted to hit on her, but thought it too crowded. I later saw her again, but was unable to talk to her. I'll see if I can find some pics on my phone...

 

[harSon]

She's never in any pictures. Meghan's the only one they parade around.

I'm not sure if it was her choice to be completely absent from the campaign? (I really doubt it...) but I'd find it pretty damn insulting if that weren't the reason.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

this right here is the reason palin was picked: to make a nice photo-op. and i'm not being hyperbolic. its right there in plain view.

 

[maximum360]

Where is the adopted McCain?

She doesn't have that Stepford look. It's almost as if she doesn't exist.

Hmmmm....

 

[mckmas8808]

This is where irony comes into play. Rove said that Obama would choose someone to help him get elected (like Kaine or Bayh). Basically it would be a choice for pure political gain as either of them would probably help Obama carry that state in Nov. It'll be interesting to hear what backpedaling Rove does this week since Obama picked someone to help him govern while McCain made the rash choice and picked someone (he thinks) that will help him win.

This is what you are talking about Maximum360.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4qEynSx19E

With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he's been a governor for THREE years, he's been able but undistinguished. I don't think people could really name a BIG, important thing that he's done. He was MAYOR of the 105th largest city in America.

And again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it's smaller than Chula Vista, California; Aurora, Colorado; Mesa or Gilbert, Arizona; north Las Vegas or Henderson, Nevada. It's not a big town. So if he were to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice where he said, `You know what? I'm really not, first and foremost, concerned with: Is This Person Capable of Being President of the United States?

Rove argues that Kaine's mayorship of Richmond (pop. 200,000+) is insignificant and that his 3 years as Governor of Virginia (pop. 7,712,091, GDP $383 million) has been "indistinguisahable."

If Rove was intellectually consistent, wouldn't that mean Palin's mayorship of Wasilla (pop. 8,000+) and 20 MONTHS(!) as Alaska governor (pop. 683,478, GDP $44.5 million) makes her even LESS qualified than Kaine?

Obviously, Palin is less qualified. Try this: Close your eyes and imagine Sarah Palin sitting at a table with Vladimir Putin. Can you see her? No? OK. Try it with someone else. Close your eyes and imagine her sitting at a table with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Can you see her? No? Me neither. All right, let's try it with Joe Biden now. No problem. We can see him. Palin as President is an impossibility for America...She's not ready.

Yeah so Karl whatcha think about Sarah?

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bza63nnqiKA

Sarah Palin as a sportscaster. WOO EIGHTIES HAIR!

 

[stressboy]

People thought this would happen in 2004.

2004 only brought us a lot of orange alerts. Strange how they all went away.

 

[laserbeam]

I'm not sure if it was her choice to be completely absent from the campaign? (I really doubt it...) but I'd find it pretty damn insulting if that weren't the reason.

Probably has to do with just how sleazy politics got in 2000 regarding her. They said some real shitty things about the girl and her spot in the family.

McCain: As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

No, but she's going through a crash course on this now, I'm sure. If this ticket makes it to the White House, she'll eventually learn everything she needs to learn. Obama has learned a ton since he started running, and the closer he got to the Dem nomination, the more he had to pick up. His background isn't economics or healthcare, but he's now considered an expert on these things. Half of this stuff is who you surround yourself with in terms of advisers. I'm sure Palin will now be surrounded by top-level GOP advisers and will have at least decent knowledge of all the major issues by the time the debates come around. Unless she's a total idiot, and I don't think she is.

This isn't all that inspiring as a defense. So, in the midst of campaigning, governing, and being a mother of five, she's got a little over a month (assuming that she doesn't get grilled in any interviews before the VP debate) to transform from being someone who admittedly didn't have an opinion on the Iraq war to being a true expert on domestic and foreign affairs? And you don't think this is a problem?

This isn't some History 101 course where an all-nighter might allow her to ace the big final. This stuff is deeply complicated and convoluted. People who are supposed to have known their stuff from years of experience have walked away looking like morons when they were in over their heads on a topic that they really didn't know enough about.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Bah, the only picture I have on my phone and you can't even see her... :lol

 

[AniHawk]

Probably has to do with just how sleazy politics got in 2000 regarding her. They said some real shitty things about the girl and her spot in the family.

McCain: As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

I think the specific wording was, "If you knew McCain fathered an illegitimate black child, would you be more or less likely to vote for him?" It was a smear campaign disguised as a phone survey in states like Tennessee. It was pure bullshit like you said. I dunno why he chooses to leave her out whenever the family gets together now though.

 

[deadbeef]

This isn't all that inspiring as a defense. So, in the midst of campaigning, governing, and being a mother of five, she's got a little over a month (assuming that she doesn't get grilled in any interviews before the VP debate) to transform from being someone who admittedly didn't have an opinion on the Iraq war to being a true expert on domestic and foreign affairs? And you don't think this is a problem?

This isn't some History 101 course where an all-nighter might allow her to ace the big final. This stuff is deeply complicated and convoluted. People who are supposed to have known their stuff from years of experience have walked away looking like morons when they were in over their heads on a topic that they really didn't know enough about.

A precedent has been set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMewf_LWfQo

 

[maximum360]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/06/mccain_obama_absolutely_qualif.html

McCain: Obama 'Absolutely' Qualified to Be President

By Zachary A. Goldfarb
Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, said Sunday that the leader for the Democratic nomination, Sen. Barack Obama, would be "absolutely" qualified to be president, should the voters elect him. But, he said, "I believe that my talent and my background and my experience, which has led to my judgment, ... qualifies me more."

I think the RNC make bulk orders of stationary bikes for the GOP camp. They will surely put some serious practice time in with all the backpedaling they're doing this week. The experience argument is now a running joke. You know how bad the pick was when Republicans surrogates are spinning wildly, tv talking heads look bewildered, some republican strategists look confused, and journalists articles on the topic are over-the-top in mocking the choice.

 

[mckmas8808]

This isn't all that inspiring as a defense. So, in the midst of campaigning, governing, and being a mother of five, she's got a little over a month (assuming that she doesn't get grilled in any interviews before the VP debate) to transform from being someone who admittedly didn't have an opinion on the Iraq war to being a true expert on domestic and foreign affairs? And you don't think this is a problem?

This isn't some History 101 course where an all-nighter might allow her to ace the big final. This stuff is deeply complicated and convoluted. People who are supposed to have known their stuff from years of experience have walked away looking like morons when they were in over their heads on a topic that they really didn't know enough about.

And she has to learn all of this while staying on message.

 

[Door2Dawn]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/06/mccain_obama_absolutely_qualif.html



I think the RNC make bulk orders of stationary bikes for the GOP camp. They will surely put some serious practice time in with all the backpedaling they're doing this week. The experience argument is now a running joke. You know how bad the pick was when Republicans surrogates are spinning wildly, tv talking heads look bewildered, some republican strategists look confused, and journalists articles on the topic are over-the-top in mocking the choice.

Well thanks Mr. McCain.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/06/mccain_obama_absolutely_qualif.html



I think the RNC make bulk orders of stationary bikes for the GOP camp. They will surely put some serious practice time in with all the backpedaling they're doing this week. The experience argument is now a running joke. You know how bad the pick was when Republicans surrogates are spinning wildly, tv talking heads look bewildered, some republican strategists look confused, and journalists articles on the topic are over-the-top in mocking the choice.

WHAT THE F*CK!?!

How.....just how.......bu.b.b.b.b.b......how can he back pedal that fast?

 

[kkaabboomm]

WHAT THE F*CK!?!

How.....just how.......bu.b.b.b.b.b......how can he back pedal that fast?

Sarah Palin says "hello"

 

[Arde5643]

Holy shit this is fast - in just a day after the annnouncement, McCain himself is now destroying his party's best attack on Obama and he does the deed himself for bonus points.

:lol :lol

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/17/novak.cia/index.html

WTF? McCain actually accused the CIA of working against Bush's reelection?

Moreover, McCain told me this week, "with CIA leaks intended to harm the re-election campaign of the president of the United States, it is not only dysfunctional but a rogue organization."

Following a mandate from the president for what McCain advised, Goss is cleaning house. The reaction from the old boys confirms those harsh adjectives of "dysfunctional" and "rogue."

 

[GhaleonEB]

Sarah Palin says "hello"

And after how many months of experience >>> judgement? They basically just hit reset on their campaign. All that stuff about Obama before? Nevermind!

 

[mckmas8808]

Sarah Palin says "hello"

See RepubGAF!! This is why Palin was a bad choice. Now McCain has to trash all those commercials that they have of Obama about him not being ready to lead. :lol

 

[Macam]

McCain doesn't have a reputation as a details guy or someone with enough familiarity with most domestic issues to know when someone's bullshitting him.

Other than a couple pet issues like campaign finance or earmarks I don't see McCain outperforming Bush by big margins.

Just to add to this, given McCain's choice of people with whom he surrounds himself with, I have even less confidence that he'd be much better than Bush. Lindsey Graham may support his position on Iraq, but he's also wrong on just about everything pertaining to foreign affairs. Advisors like Phil Gramm and Randy Scheunemann are part of the very problem McCain rails against and only helps to bring back memories of the whole Keating affair. Not to mention putting out Carly Fiorina, who more or less ran HP into the ground, and Meg Whitman, who lead eBay for a number of years, as surrogates hardly inspires confidence. His choice of Palin pretty much fits the mold of his other crappy personnel choices.

 

[AniHawk]

WHAT THE F*CK!?!

How.....just how.......bu.b.b.b.b.b......how can he back pedal that fast?

"I've made a huge mistake."

 

[Propagandhim]

A precedent has been set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMewf_LWfQo

It takes him 8 hours to fly home. It takes him 8 hours to fly home.
It takes him 8 hours to fly home. It takes him 8 hours to fly home.
It takes him 8 hours to fly home. It takes him 8 hours to fly home.
It takes him 8 hours to fly home. It takes him 8 hours to fly home.

 

[Talka]

You know how Sarah Palin grew up in Alaska?

John McCain is 23 years older than Alaska.

 

[giga]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/06/mccain_obama_absolutely_qualif.html



I think the RNC make bulk orders of stationary bikes for the GOP camp. They will surely put some serious practice time in with all the backpedaling they're doing this week. The experience argument is now a running joke. You know how bad the pick was when Republicans surrogates are spinning wildly, tv talking heads look bewildered, some republican strategists look confused, and journalists articles on the topic are over-the-top in mocking the choice.

 

[mckmas8808]

And after how many months of experience >>> judgement? They basically just hit reset on their campaign. All that stuff about Obama before? Nevermind!

This is really dangerous because how does the RNC respond to this? How do they attack Obama now that experience is off the table thanks to McCain?

What do the surrogates say on cable TV?

 

[Tamanon]

No, you see it's all been a brilliant plan by McCain this entire time!

He's constantly said "But is he ready to lead?" on his commercials, now he just answered the question. "Yes, yes he is"