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[Agent Icebeezy]

It's like we're all waiting for the punchline.

I know, I said this earlier.

i think many of you are underestimating how stupid people can be.

i think it's a brilliant pick, politically. seriously, people are idiots. they'll see her with those 7 kids and her strong christian values and put that above any petulant thing such as foreign relations and economy and what have you

I dunno, the press about this has largely been bad. It seems like the media is going to do anything they can to bring her up. She is going to be vetted by the media. That isn't the vetting you want done.

 

[Stoney Mason]

sarah palin is going to make admiral stockdale's 1992 debate performance look like an oracle of wisdom in comparison.

Ya know looking at it objectively there is a real possibility she could bomb but in this modern age of debates being expectation games I have a feeling a lot of GAF will be disappointed. Especially perhaps at the VP debate although I think even the presidential debate is likely to have the same dynamic. Modern presidential debates are two guys talking and hitting their talking points. It's not really an exercise in real debating or on the fly thinking. If she is properly prepared and doesn't do something incredibly stupid people (the media) will consider it a tie.

 

[mckmas8808]

i think many of you are underestimating how stupid people can be.

i think it's a brilliant pick, politically. seriously, people are idiots. they'll see her with those 7 kids and her strong christian values and put that above any petulant thing such as foreign relations and economy and what have you

Naw people aren't this stupid. Polls have already been released and they don't look good.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Naw people aren't this stupid. Polls have already been released and they don't look good.

Every Repub i've talked to is convinced this just locked up the election (can't really ever explain why, but still). People on the fence though....yea, this is a huge turn off. I do hope those polls keep trending well in favor of Obama through Nov. though. This could be the snowball rolling downhill for him.

 

[SoulPlaya]

in some weird way, I kinda feel sorry for Palin. She seems like a nice enough woman...but...her? Is McCain going for the pity vote or something? :lol

Honestly, I feel the same way. I feel bad for her cause now so many people hate her, from what I've researched about her and from what I've seen about her, though, seems like a genuinely nice person.

 

[maximum360]

i think many of you are underestimating how stupid people can be.

i think it's a brilliant pick, politically. seriously, people are idiots. they'll see her with those 7 kids and her strong christian values and put that above any petulant thing such as foreign relations and economy and what have you

I never underestimate the 'stuck on stupid' portions of our country. A McCain/Palin win would best exemplify that. I've always said that Obama will have an uphill climb all the way to the election.

Maybe this will be the way the press normalizes itself again after handling McCain with kid gloves for the last several month. Palin will instead by the sacrificial lamb as the press tries to double down on its 'objective assessment' of the candidate in an effort to right their previous delinquencies. (Yeah right.)

McCain's choice was due a serious lack of judgement on his part. This knocks him of the pedestal the press constructed for him since he can't pull the "I'm the one with good judgement" card anymore. It just opens him up to so much more criticism.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

in some weird way, I kinda feel sorry for Palin. She seems like a nice enough woman...but...her? Is McCain going for the pity vote or something? :lol

I don't. She lacks just enough wisdom/judgment of her own to somehow believe that she's qualified to take over and be President if/when it's needed. She didn't have to accept. That's how I feel about it.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I don't recall there being any sort of dirt being drug up on Biden when he was nominated - is it just PoliGAF's way, or do Biden's follies really not measure up to hers in anyway?

 

[bishoptl]

? The MSM went straight to the 'clean black candidate' quote Biden made regarding Obama. They also brought up his penchant for speaking from the hip, but that first one was the standout..."why'd he pick this guy who would say such a racially charged statement?"

Definitely no free pass there.

 

[maximum360]

Ya know looking at it objectively there is a real possibility she could bomb but in this modern age of debates being expectation games I have a feeling a lot of GAF will be disappointed. Especially perhaps at the VP debate although I think even the presidential debate is likely to have the same dynamic. Modern presidential debates are two guys talking and hitting their talking points. It's not really an exercise in real debating or on the fly thinking. If she is properly prepared and doesn't do something incredibly stupid people (the media) will consider it a tie.

Comparing Palin to Biden on the issue of qualifications is really a joke. But, tv talking heads never cease to amaze me. After the Saddleback forum, where McCain gave one word, stump speech answers and ancedotes for every question, the press ate it up and declared him the winner. Nothing surprises me these days in that regard. She could do terrible and they can spin it how they want to. They do a good enough job of telling us what opinion we should have anyway.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

? The MSM went straight to the 'clean black candidate' quote Biden made regarding Obama. They also brought up his penchant for speaking from the hip, but that first one was the standout..."why'd he pick this guy who would say such a racially charged statement?"

Definitely no free pass there.

alright, just checking in on that subject in case of future arguments with family.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I don't recall there being any sort of dirt being drug up on Biden when he was nominated - is it just PoliGAF's way, or do Biden's follies really not measure up to hers in anyway?

IMO biden is the most qualified person in america to be president, despite some foibles here and there (voting for the iraq war and plagarizing campaign speeches are two of them).

but i've been a big admirer of his for years, so my opinion is blatently biased

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I don't recall there being any sort of dirt being drug up on Biden when he was nominated - is it just PoliGAF's way, or do Biden's follies really not measure up to hers in anyway?

She's the new flavor.

Biden is an open book.

 

[maximum360]

? The MSM went straight to the 'clean black candidate' quote Biden made regarding Obama. They also brought up his penchant for speaking from the hip, but that first one was the standout..."why'd he pick this guy who would say such a racially charged statement?"

Definitely no free pass there.

That died pretty quickly though and just wasn't a big deal to begin with. The press were intent on building up any drama they could before and during the convention and failed miserably.

 

[Mandark]

sarah palin is going to make admiral stockdale's 1992 debate performance look like an oracle of wisdom in comparison.

No way.

Televised political debates reward candidates who hew to their talking points and are unafraid to make completely disingenuous statements. All of Stockdale's problems were compounded by his attempts to answer the questions honestly on the spot.

Palin's going to get prepped like crazy and her blithe conservative ignorance will carry her through. You just have to sound confident and say things that make some intuitive sense to ~50% of the electorate.

That said, Biden should tear her up and I'm mostly worried about a post-debate "he bullied her" spin.

 

[Stoney Mason]

No way.

Televised political debates reward candidates who hew to their talking points and are unafraid to make completely disingenuous statements. All of Stockdale's problems were compounded by his attempts to answer the questions honestly on the spot.

Palin's going to get prepped like crazy and her blithe conservative ignorance will carry her through. You just have to sound confident and say things that make some intuitive sense to ~50% of the electorate.

That said, Biden should tear her up and I'm mostly worried about a post-debate "he bullied her" spin.

Lockbox!

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

biden should shoot from the "wise grandpa" angle

 

[bishoptl]

That died pretty quickly though and just wasn't a big deal to begin with. The press were intent on building up any drama they could before and during the convention and failed miserably.

Understood. I was just addressing the question as to whether or not anything was brought up regarding Biden.

 

[Mandark]

Lockbox!

I bet Al Gore was yelling "See! I told ya so! Lock goddam box!" at the TV when Bush was pushing SS privatization in '05.

But the important thing to remember from that debate is how it was reported. The biggest story was Gore rolling his eyes and sighing, which only got traction after the GOP sent out copies of a compilation tape to the newsmedia.

 

[maximum360]

No way.

Televised political debates reward candidates who hew to their talking points and are unafraid to make completely disingenuous statements. All of Stockdale's problems were compounded by his attempts to answer the questions honestly on the spot.

Palin's going to get prepped like crazy and her blithe conservative ignorance will carry her through. You just have to sound confident and say things that make some intuitive sense to ~50% of the electorate.

That said, Biden should tear her up and I'm mostly worried about a post-debate "he bullied her" spin.

This is spot on and the reason why McCain was praised at the Saddleback forum. The press decides in advance that if you have to think to answer a question instead of just spewing talking points, that's a loss. After 8 years of Bush you'd think that mindset would change but alas, no.

 

[Macam]

I don't recall there being any sort of dirt being drug up on Biden when he was nominated - is it just PoliGAF's way, or do Biden's follies really not measure up to hers in anyway?

Mandark pointed out his strong role with some unfavorable credit legislation, there was the issue of plagiarism accusations during his first presidential run, and then there are the handful of comments where Biden will occasionally put his foot in his mouth, as he did the day he announced his candidacy last year. For someone who's been in the Senate for nearly three decades and as a vice presidential nominee, his shortcomings are barely worth mentioning against Palin's. She pales in comparison.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I bet Al Gore was yelling "See! I told ya so! Lock goddam box!" at the TV when Bush was pushing SS privatization in '05.

But the important thing to remember from that debate is how it was reported. The biggest story was Gore rolling his eyes and sighing, which only got traction after the GOP sent out copies of a compilation tape to the newsmedia.

It's also the perfect example of how the more knowledgeable guy doesn't always "win" these debates.

 

[Mandark]

Just to add to this, given McCain's choice of people with whom he surrounds himself with, I have even less confidence that he'd be much better than Bush. Lindsey Graham may support his position on Iraq, but he's also wrong on just about everything pertaining to foreign affairs. Advisors like Phil Gramm and Randy Scheunemann are part of the very problem McCain rails against and only helps to bring back memories of the whole Keating affair. Not to mention putting out Carly Fiorina, who more or less ran HP into the ground, and Meg Whitman, who lead eBay for a number of years, as surrogates hardly inspires confidence. His choice of Palin pretty much fits the mold of his other crappy personnel choices.

Yep.

It's not like there are explicit quid pro quo deals happening between lobbyist-advisors and candidates but he's basically living in an echo chamber full of capitalist hawks who are very well compensated for their connections.

Hell, look at Otto Reich. Guy's been involved in pretty much every underhanded Republican scheme in South America and he winds up as a McCain advisor as well as head of a lobbying firm which got $60,000 from a McCain bundler.

Seems to me that McCain hasn't given much thought to how influence peddling actually works in Washington. He's pretty loud about his own moral infallibility though.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Man, Gustav is nuts. No one will give a shit about the RNC I think.

 

[ZealousD]

That said, Biden should tear her up and I'm mostly worried about a post-debate "he bullied her" spin.

Sadly this is true.

But there's also an extremely reasonable counter. She could actually end up being the President of the United States. If she can't handle the heat from a single senator, how is she going to handle a dictator?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It really isn't looking too great for him, is it? I still think I'm entrenched in the "I'm going to wait and see how this plays" for a week or two before I fully give in to the notion that McCain has made his worst mistake yet. Still, it's really not looking that great as far as I can tell, even when I try to be non-partisan and look at both the pros and the cons.

I'm still just scratching my head about this pick.

I'm starting to think a couple of things about this pick now.

Before the VP pick, we heard that Rove was informing McCain not to go with Lieberman as the pick (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=0725B138-18FE-70B2-A8C1D776948E7AF6) despite reports that McCain had all but picked him up to Sunday. Then we have guys like Pawlenty, Romney, and presumably Huckabee being incensed at the Palin pick from McCain only after the fact.

I honestly believe Palin was a Rove idea from start to finish. I think he saw that McCain was all but fucked for the presidency, torpedoed Lieberman because he would be the clincher, and got McCain to go with the super conservative vagina having running mate to shave independent female votes and bolster the conservative base that hates McCain. Considering McCain's campaign measures and tactics leading up to the pick, I cannot say I buy this being his decision alone.

 

[The Chosen One]

I just find it funny that one of the main reasons for Palin getting picked was to appeal to women and Hilary supporters. Yet so far, it's actually men who view Palin more favorably and more Hilary supporters have been pushed toward Obama because of this pick. If this trend holds (or worsens) then this pick would have definitely been a disaster.

The media seemed giddy at first but once they fully absorbed Palin being the VP many of them are going more less, "WTF was McCain thinking?"

Palin in just her second speech got booed when mentioning Hilary Clinton.

The RNC speakers are having to totally rewrite their speeches.

The experience attack (which was the strongest) is now completely nullified.

Many in the media are also mocking his "Country First" slogan. It's not just Dems.

So far this doesn't seem to have been a good gamble by McCain.

The base seems to be charging up but he needed to have cross-over appeal to win this election. I think she really needs to over-perform in her speech and the debate. Just scrapping over the low bar won't be enough it seems.

 

[basik]

http://blip.tv/file/1214523

Gov. Sarah Palin's director of boards and commissions, Frank Bailey, calls a trooper station to complain about Trooper Mike Wooten, Palin's ex-brother-in-law.

somebody post this audio on youtube please...I dunno how. theres a link at the bottom to d/l the mp3. I dont think its on youtube yet so whoever posts it first could get tons of hits.

 

[soul creator]

Barney Smith for prez

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Barney Smith for prez

Wow, nice job Barney. I missed that part.

 

[ViperVisor]

Barney Smith for prez

I was listening to my local community black radio show on Friday here in Indiana and he was joking about how perfect this dude was to rep a Midwest regular guy.

 

[soul creator]

awwwwwww

(i've been bored and browsing his site recently. I've forgotten how detailed it is)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

Fiscal
Year Year Ending National Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

Where's the magical surplus?

Wow... I know this is from many pages ago, but it was too stupid not to comment on.

Do you know what the difference between a Deficit and a Debt is? Look it up.

As you can see, from 1994 onwards, the National Debt was drastically reduced and the United States was almost out of debt until Georgie-boy took office.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Now please Republicans. If this happens. Give us a show.

Daily in Denver was awesome.

I may not agree with you guys... ever. But I do love to watch a speech mocked. Obama is my candidate. If only because he's not lowering the discourse in this election. It helps that he inspires so many.

This country needs him to survive. He won't just wave a magic wand and fix all of this crap left behind by the incompetence in the White House today. But he may, just may, get this country to start talking to one another like adults again.

Not all Republicans are idiots, just like not all Democrats are idiots. Each side does have valid ideas, but these good ideas get buried in a wave of partisan shit.

The man is too smart to not see the frivolous waste in the system today. A Republican ideal that's rarely exploited by their hierarchy. A good idea. Within reason of course.

True government waste. Cleaning and fixing of planes that haven't been used since the 50's. Social programs are necessary in America today. My grandmother and mother couldn't survive without some assistance. Both damn near crippled living month to month in the heart of Kansas.

Those programs should be sacrosanct in any modern civilized society. But waste abounds in other areas. One very big drain is Iraq.

I'm ranting... but hey at least it made sense, and had no mention of anything being inserted into my rectum.

 

[Farmboy]

One of my favorite drawbacks of the Palin choice, aside from the mocking of Country First and the inexperience factor (though the Repubs will still attack Obama for his; consistency doesn't matter to them) is that she's served to further highlight McCain's age and health. If Obama had gained votes for everytime a pundit has mentioned that Palin 'could be president because McCain is a 72-year-old cancer survivor', then the Dems have the election in the bag.

 

[Ventrue]

Wow... I know this is from many pages ago, but it was too stupid not to comment on.

Do you know what the difference between a Deficit and a Debt is? Look it up.

As you can see, from 1994 onwards, the National Debt was drastically reduced and the United States was almost out of debt until Georgie-boy took office.

I don't know, I'm not sure if you're reading it correctly:


Fiscal Year | Year Ending | National Debt | Deficit
FY1993 | 09/30/1993 | $4.411488 trillion | (Blank)
FY1994 | 09/30/1994 | $4.692749 trillion | $281.26 billion
FY1995 | 09/29/1995 | $4.973982 trillion | $281.23 billion
FY1996 | 09/30/1996 | $5.224810 trillion | $250.83 billion
FY1997 | 09/30/1997 | $5.413146 trillion | $188.34 billion
FY1998 | 09/30/1998 | $5.526193 trillion | $113.05 billion
FY1999 | 09/30/1999 | $5.656270 trillion | $130.08 billion
FY2000 | 09/29/2000 | $5.674178 trillion | $17.91 billion
FY2001 | 09/28/2001 | $5.807463 trillion | $133.29 billion

Note that I can't actually find this specific table on the site linked, so I'm not sure if these numbers are accurate/where they are coming from?

However, according to these figures, you can see that the Debt grew from $4.4 trillion in 1993 to $5.6 trillion in 2000. The deficit was $281 billion for the year of 1994 and $17 billion for the year of 2000. The deficit shrank, but there was no surplus and national debt grew.

 

[crisdecuba]

Wow... I know this is from many pages ago, but it was too stupid not to comment on.

Do you know what the difference between a Deficit and a Debt is? Look it up.

As you can see, from 1994 onwards, the National Debt was drastically reduced and the United States was almost out of debt until Georgie-boy took office.

Not quite - the deficit was reduced, not the debt.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

God I fucked it up in my own post lol. I need to get to sleep.:lol

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Yea, I don't see a surplus, buy maybe there was a taxcut, or something.

Either way, the trade debt went up 4 trillion under Bush, and the budget is a joke.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Has anyone mentioned this yet?

http://community.livejournal.com/randompictures/4261359.html?nc=11

"Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better."

(Sorry if someone has, big thread.)

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Has anyone mentioned this yet?

http://community.livejournal.com/randompictures/4261359.html?nc=11

"Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better."

(Sorry if someone has, big thread.)

they should find the Father this news wont died... thats a pretty ugly rumour

 

[ViperVisor]

omg rite

It was decided some pages back we would drop the speculation here, for now.

 

[Ventrue]

Apart from the fact that is the same category of malicious rumour sent at McCain in 2000, may I point out that a 45 year-old woman is far more likely to have a child with Down's Syndrome than a younger woman, and thus the child's condition is strong evidence that this rumour is bullshit?

 

[Amir0x]

There is certainly many oddities regarding this whole pregnancy business, but as Hitokage said we will drop the speculation until someone does the hard work for everyone - otherwise it just smells like nasty attempts to smear her, like many do with the "secret muslim" shtick.

 

[Mandark]

I don't know, I'm not sure if you're reading it correctly:
However, according to these figures, you can see that the Debt grew from $4.4 trillion in 1993 to $5.6 trillion in 2000. The deficit was $281 billion for the year of 1994 and $17 billion for the year of 2000. The deficit shrank, but there was no surplus and national debt grew.

You're right in labeling the columns but there was a surplus.

These figures are different from pretty much any other official source you can find and I think it's because of a weird accounting decision on their part. It looks like they're counting the SS surplus as a government deficit because it involves one agency issuing bonds to another.

Nobody disputed that there was a surplus at the end of the Clinton years. The debates about the SS lockbox and the Bush tax cuts were framed as what to do with that surplus.

 

[maximum360]

A poster on another forum had a good point. For 18 months, we've had the media obsess over the questions, "Who is Barack Obama". Will they say that of Sara Plain for the next two months? (I know she's not black so that should fast track her into "sharing our American values" classification by the media pretty quickly.) I give Obama credit though. He put up with a lot of the media's crap for the last two years as they repeated republican talking points ad nauseum.

 

[sprsk]

If it's not her's that's pretty crazy, I seriously doubt it though and I hope no one spreads that nasty rumor.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Ah, okay. Sorry about that.

I doubt it's true anyway, but is quite an amusing rumor.

 

[The Orange]

The rumour won't die down, though. Everyone's searching for more proof, there's a couple of sites on digg that have done "research", this one isn't going away until they 100% prove it's wrong..

 

[besada]

Has anyone mentioned this yet?

http://community.livejournal.com/randompictures/4261359.html?nc=11

"Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better."

(Sorry if someone has, big thread.)

Yes, and it's sad to see Democrats focusing on her womb instead of her qualifications. This is every bit as sleazy as the Bush whisper campaign about McCain's "half-black" baby, Clinton's "rape baby", and Obama being a Muslim.

Makes me a little ashamed to share a side with these douchebags.