anexanhume
Member
Good points, those.
The thing with Fish bullying that seemed odd was that he said W crashed the wedding and wasn't wanted. Is this a sign he's socially inept, or wash Fish essentially victim blaming? I don't think we'll ever know.
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Polytron Hacked?
- Thread starter Hato-kun
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Good points, those.
The thing with Fish bullying that seemed odd was that he said W crashed the wedding and wasn't wanted. Is this a sign he's socially inept, or wash Fish essentially victim blaming? I don't think we'll ever know.
There's a lot of double standard in this whole situation, I am afraid of posting what a think just because I will probably get ban, but it seems that if your opinion is not in favor of the developers or Zoey you have to be silenced.
This is not about sexism at all, there are proof that this is way beyond that, but anyway keep ignoring facts.
This is not about sexism at all, there are proof that this is way beyond that, but anyway keep ignoring facts.
Keyser Soze
Member
This is a weird first thing to open up this thread and read
I believe this is what made people angry at him.
While the hack is a totally disproportionate response (and deeply immoral and highly illegal), seeing this tweet by Fish makes me shake my head.
Does he have mental problems? Who in their right mind would react this way?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well... it's certainly clear where you came from (and will likely be going back to very soon...)
If you're civil in debating your opinion, you'll be fine. If you want to willingly go against the TOS, you'll get a ban.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Dragonborn
Member
It's a common double standard when it comes to sexual harassment. Add to that Phil Fish's abrasive attitude and that's what you get as a response.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
It feels very weird, since it seems like they even know each other from the tweets. It's a little disturbing to be honest, especially knowing Ouren's history here as a stand up guy.
He is known to have bipolar disorder.
We also don't truly know what happened to trigger that response, AFAIK.
iNvid02
Member
tell us how you really feel, you get banned if you violate the tos, so just dont?
Responses like this are actually pretty typical of Fish. He's a tremendously ugly person and he loves it.
Well that escalated quickly. Enjoy the new tag.
That's not true at all.
You don't have to like Phil or Zoey, or think the games they make or their opinions are good. However, if you say they deserve to be hacked and have their lives destroyed, yes might get banned for that. Because honestly that would be a hateful thing to say.
What facts are people supposedly ignoring?
My guess is that he's already up to his neck in bullshit aimed at him and Zoe, he interpreted Ouren's tweet as throwing fuel on the fire, and lashed out.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Steve's posts did cover my thoughts pretty well, so I won't delve into this while juggling cooking, a W8 tablet with no text prediction and a few rums. I will say though, that I've been both the target of sexual harassment in the workplace and wrongfully accused of it. It's not something I think should be treated lightly, and I'm sensitive to Wozniak's concerns about damaging his career by rubbing important people the wrong way. However, I also don't see how it's really relevant in a discussion about Polytron being hacked for their founder's SJW tendencies.
Even if Fish is a massive turd (and I personally tend to feel that he kinda is) he and his colleagues did not bring this on themselves. Shitty people did something shitty.
Even if Fish is a massive turd (and I personally tend to feel that he kinda is) he and his colleagues did not bring this on themselves. Shitty people did something shitty.
EDIT: I guess this thread is about Polytron being hacked. It's hard to discuss certain things (since it seems like this story is always evolving and going beyond its initial intention). But I don't want to veer too far off the track here.
I will just say, I find this thing very conflicting. I see possible actions that are very troubling, and that I feel the public should know about. But I also don't know how you determine that, or even investigate it, when all this spawns from a personal/private matter being leaked online. The whole thing is a fuckin mess. Still, I hope Wozniak comes forward if he was really harassed, and tells his story. No victim should have to stay quiet. And the gaming industry should not allow community bullying to keep actions like this hidden. That is disgusting, and hypocritical.
I will just say, I find this thing very conflicting. I see possible actions that are very troubling, and that I feel the public should know about. But I also don't know how you determine that, or even investigate it, when all this spawns from a personal/private matter being leaked online. The whole thing is a fuckin mess. Still, I hope Wozniak comes forward if he was really harassed, and tells his story. No victim should have to stay quiet. And the gaming industry should not allow community bullying to keep actions like this hidden. That is disgusting, and hypocritical.
Methamatics101
Member
I believe this is what made people angry at him.
I think twitter Phil Fish and real life Phil Fish are almost totally different.
A bit like Kamiya.
But Kamiya Twitter IS Kamiya!
Like Jim Sterling, TotalBiscuit and many other people there.
To be honest, people get loud and noisy in the internet (expecially if they're famous) but In my opinion people like Kamiya and Phil probably are like this in real life too.
Maybe we're never going to see them in this light but It would be weird if they're just playing 'a role' on twitter.
I'm sure there are people in other communities who wish that were true about the moderation policies on GAF. Doesn't make it true, though. Sorry.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I saw your post pre-edit fwiw, and I agree with you. Sexual harassment is not a trivial issue regardless of the gender of who is doing it. My attitude about it here is just that people keep using Phil's general dickhead behaviour to excuse this hacking, which has also hurt other people who aren't Phil. I tend to sit on the "two wrongs != one right" camp from an ideological pov, is all.
You can pretty much say anything you want on GAF without getting trouble. However, I've found that if you hold an opinion that goes against the mold, especially with a controversial issue like this, you have to word and articulate your posts extremely carefully as to not get in trouble. But it doesn't work the other way around.
For example, if I made a post simply saying "Zoe Quinn has done nothing wrong at all and she's a good person" I probably wouldn't get punished. However, if I made a post simply saying "I'm against what Zoe Quinn has done and don't consider her a good person," I would probably be punished and face backlash. Both are low quality posts, don't contribute to the discussion, and should be punished against. But I sincerely doubt anything would arise from the first example.
CastleBravo
Member
This thread moves so fast so I don't know if it has been linked to yet, but over at KnowYourMeme (found it while Googling to try to figure out what the heck this is all about) there's kind of a summary of everything. For someone who had no idea what any of this was/is about, I guess it's a good way to sort of bring yourself up to speed:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy
Yeah I just edited it, because I myself don't know how the fuck this stuff is supposed to be looked into. *shrugs*.
I just feel bad for anyone that is a victim.
AuthenticM
Member
I believe this is what made people angry at him.
I doubt he'd have said this if it was a woman who was accusing someone he knows of sexually harassing her.
Dragonborn
Member
Probably because he would have basically been crucified if he said that to a woman. The response to such a thing would be something else. I get scared just thinking about it (as in scared for him in that hypothetical situation)
I think it's weird how others in the industry retweeted this. So this terrible response (bullying) is given support.
Almost all of that is proven to be bullshit. Please don't post that as some sort of objective analysis of the situation.
I read his signoff as "If being a gaffer is wrong I don't want to be right"
hodayathink
Member
The actual problem is that the arguments that the "this isn't about sexism" people tend to make are either completely wrong (nepotism in games journalism) or have no real proof behind them (the FYC game jam, the Youtube DMCA takedown, the "fake doxxing", etc.). Thus the posts get backlash because they're bringing up things that that have already been talked about pages ago and aren't really as relevant or as unassailable as they like to think they are.
Zomba13
Member
Pretty much. It's in reference to a certain sad sub-reddit where they just shit on Neogaf and it's posters.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ah, pardon me, then. I know nothing about Reddit and its community.
I just figured the "Fagger" part came from 4chan.
Japanmanx3
Member
Superior Sarcasm or textbook account suicide....
pantsonhead
Member
I really feel bad for Quinn (sexual harassment allegations aside) and the rest of Polytron, but I'm having a hard time digging up any sympathy for Fish.
Where can I find the proof against that Game Jam thing?
Sarcasm. He was referencing some stuff from earlier, that's all.
Dragonborn
Member
You can't. The only thing that's been proven false is that she slept with those guys for positive press (a nonsensical accusation). Her abusing her ex, being a cheater, sexually harassing Wozniak, messing and doxxing that game jam thing, abusing the DMCA system, and all of the other stuff is still up in the air. There's proof supporting some of it, but little or none proving it false. At least, from what I've been following. The DMCA thing could be faked by someone else, everything else, who knows. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed the proof.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
People did the exact same thing to excuse/justify/pardon the vitriol aimed at Fish during the Marcus Beer incident. I find it fascinating that people are so quickly taking Fish's side in this situation.
Japanmanx3
Member
Noted. This thread, nay, this week has been so weird and tense and confusing smh.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Nope.
His behavior definitely played into the hands of the people who were looking to explode this out further though. Whatever may or may not have happened, that is likely to haunt him and her for a long time just because of the implication that they're trying to silence a victim of sexual harassment.
Pretty much how I see it. The question then is, how is any of this relevant to gaming? The industry? I guess as an activist, there is some very questionable actions of Quinn (if the allegations were true). People support her, and give her money based on what she sells and preaches. Her reputation as someone able to speak on certain matters, is called into question if some of these allegations are true. Not saying any of the allegations are true btw. But if they were, that is of concern. But I'm not sure how that entirely relates to the industry.
The only thing I have major issue with, is the possibility of a small community in the industry protecting each other (ie. the Wozniak stuff really bothers me). I don't like how they reacted. But on the other hand, these are just individuals that are friends. Not sure how we can extend that to the gaming community of the whole. So yeah. *shrugs*
Kamiya is really humble in real life, a tad shy even. You'd never guess it's the same guy looking at his twitter
Sorry, what I meant by bullshit was "there is no evidence to support the majority of the claims in that link that are treated as fact". A lot of that stuff would be impossible to prove one way or another, but people sure rushed to assume that it was all 100% true because it supported the narrative that Zoe is an industry destroying monster.
I believe this is what made people angry at him.
If I remember the whole exchange correctly Phil first post says "You're no friend of mine!" Maybe it was Phil's wedding, perhaps? And he was pissed that Wozniak took the liberty to disclose his allegedly harassment by Zoe at his own wedding purporting to be his friend, and where it seems he wasn't invited to be in the first place.
blitzcloud
Banned
it seems like the rabbit hole has no end. my sympathies to phil fish, even if all I read from him was twitter rant. he probably didnt deserve such a harsh attack... and more people were affected by this.
about zoe, well... i dont like how she handled things in the past, but everything that happened these days... it's disproportionate to say the least
about zoe, well... i dont like how she handled things in the past, but everything that happened these days... it's disproportionate to say the least
paolo11
Member
Kamiya is really humble in real life, a tad shy even. You'd never guess it's the same guy looking at his twitter
Yeah, he seems soft spoken. I guess he just likes to have fun in Twitter.
Isn't Phil Fish a cool guy in real life anyway? I know he was frank about the Japanese games comment but he seems to be cool.
Dragonborn
Member
I don't think it really does. It just means she's just an awful person (if true) just like everyone else involved in this whole thing. The whole screwing over Game Jam thing is pretty big if true though, that's the one thing that might be important. At most she looses all credibility, as do others who've been involved, but otherwise it really has no effect. Feel bad for Wozniak though, I mean, I don't see why'd he lie about it
One thing I hadn't considered is, this whole debacle could be a setback to women's issues in gaming. It's brushed a lot of people the wrong way and re-energized the opponents. People will be even more stubborn in their believes because of this (as in, they'll point back to stuff like this). But I don't know enough to say whether this will happen or not.
I believe every word of this because the same thing has happened and still happens with my cousin. No one ever believes her, they think anything that's happening was her own doing and that's she's drama queen. I remember once she had a stalker, no one really believed her but I did. It was a dark and scary time and I can't imagine what could have happened if I wasn't around or hadn't believed her.
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