Pope Francis says it is OK to smack children if their ‘dignity is maintained’

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My mom threw shoes at me when I was a kid
sometimes wooden spoons
sometimes my own toys
I turned out alright.


I definitely didn't touch hot stoves or did anything stupid like any other kids.
 
Volimar said:
Different punishments work with different kids. Before I officially took over raising my nephew my sister tried spanking him. It just escalated his emotions and caused him to be more destructive. My problem with spanking is not the concept, but rather the execution and often long term repurcussions. Far too many parents spank out of anger or frustration. The spanking becomes a release for the parent rather than a means of correcting bad behavior. And I think using things like paddles and belts or worse is assault plain and simple. The long term fear and resentment that the child then can develop for the one who disciplined them just does not outweigh any short term adjustment to his or her behavior. To say nothing about how it might skew that child's attitudes regarding violence.
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Pretty much this.

I think it's okay to spank a child, but it should be a conscience decision that is made after the child has shown no signs of correcting after other methods of correction. To smash a kid out of frustration or instinctual reaction is only going to do more harm.
 
daniels said:
.... you are not allowed to spank an adult .. an adult that can defend himself .
But you should be allowed to spank your childen that are defensless have not fully developed, have no common sense and have only you as protection,teacher and person to look up to.
But you should be allowed to spank them ... because??? what? you had a bad day? children are annoying?
If you do what you defend to adults you have troube with the law,money maybe even freedom.. But defensles children hell yeah!! open season.
and btw that you compare beatings to taking away some playstation or grounding says everything anyway.
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Because you can reason with an adult and adults are responsible for their own actions. You can explain to an adult not to run into the street or drink bleach. It isn't always possible to do the same with a child.
I mean you explained it in your own post.
 
nasax said:
Spanking?! That's physical assault to some people here.
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Idk man, if you lost your kids for spanking them where I'm from there would have to be a mass exodus of kids to another state. I actually don't know anyone who wasn't spanked IRL and all of my friends who are parents still spank their kids.
 
rooflapimp said:
It seems it's usually either British, Americans or people from third world countries that tend to hit their children.
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Anglo-Saxon models of politics = Developing World models (hence why US has no maternity/sick leave and the UK is privatizing its NHS).

No coincidence there then.
 
PhantomHound said:
Lol, someone is not a parent.
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Aside from the fact that "LOL YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A PARENT" is the laziest argument you can make, kids that young can absolutely understand.

Our son knows to stop 2 feet from the top of the stairs and wait for one of us to carry him down. We accomplished this by repetition. Letting him get close to the edge (supervised of course), then moving him back and firmly saying no.

Same with the stove. We'll hold him up and say "hot!" and put our hands up. Whenever he even sees fire (stove, fireplace, etc...) he does it.

We're very fortunate that he responds so well to this type of teaching. I'm not saying it's the solution for everyone. But parenting doesn't boil down to "spanking or bust."

You DO NOT have to be a parent to participate in this discussion or have a valid opinion.
 
I am no parent, but both me and my brother (he was the rascal) were raised in a loving and peaceful household.
I would be deeply ashamed if I could not accomplish what my parents did, raising my children without violence or even the threat of it.

I can't believe some of the discussions here, if you leave bruises and marks that is when you've gone to far? disgusting and shameful.
 
Prime crotch said:
Cause kids only know what they experience, you either let them touch the stove and get burned or you gotta reinforce how off limits it is.
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Sooo...how do people in countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany or South Sudan successfully raise their children?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#Where_outlawed

39 countries have already proven that corporal punishment serves no purpose. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that? Shouldn't parents around the world appreciate this?

I'm sure most parents don't exactly enjoy hurting their children.
At least I hope so. If I felt obliged to use corporal punishment on my children in order to be a good dad, and somebody convinced me that I don't need to do that anymore, I'd be fucking glad!
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Aside from the fact that "LOL YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A PARENT" is the laziest argument you can make, kids that young can absolutely understand.

Our son knows to stop 2 feet from the top of the stairs and wait for one of us to carry him down. We accomplished this by repetition. Letting him get close to the edge (supervised of course), then moving him back and firmly saying no.

Same with the stove. We'll hold him up and say "hot!" and put our hands up. Whenever he even sees fire (stove, fireplace, etc...) he does it.

We're very fortunate that he responds so well to this type of teaching. I'm not saying it's the solution for everyone. But parenting doesn't boil down to "spanking or bust."

You DO NOT have to be a parent to participate in this discussion or have a valid opinion.
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Yes, see you're a parent.

I'm not a parent anyway... muhaha, my own argument is destroyed.
 
I hate the idea of corporal punishment in schools. And I don't think I'll ever spank a kid for misbehaving.

However, there was this one time when I was with my toddler cousin (2 or 3) and he was a bad apple. He'd try to run away for snots and giggles; so this one time, as I was chasing him, I slapped the back of his calf. He cried but at least he never ran away again. So there's that... Am I a monster?

Sometimes you deal with a rotten toddler; but some people can't draw the line in slapping their hand away from something (junk food, something dangerous, etc), and terrifying them into discipline, which is just wrong.
 
poppabk said:
Because you can reason with an adult and adults are responsible for their own actions. You can explain to an adult not to drink bleach. It isn't always possible to do the same with a child.
I mean you explained it in your own post.
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You seriously can't figure out some way to teach your children basic things in a way that doesn't involve corporal punishment? How about some critical thinking or doing a Google search before you strike, or is that too much to ask?
 
There isn't anything wrong with spanking your kids. If you spank your kids and it leaves a mark then went to far.

Some kids just need to be spanked.
 
I've never had a child psych professor that was pro spanking, most were very clear that physical punishment was not the way to go about things. Children are small and defenseless and should be treated like human beings instead of a physical outlet for frustration. Many parents hit their kids to make them feel better, instead of a teaching tool for the kids. Use your words instead of your hands, kids are smarter than many give them credit for.
 
John Kowalski said:
Officially the worst pope ever.
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I did a google search, check this out; http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/the-8-most-evil-popes-in-history/



Nr 4;

Pope-Benedict-IX.jpg


"In 1032 Benedict IX became the youngest pope to ever take the papal seat, with some accounts stating he was only 11 or 12 years old at the time of his promotion to the papacy, although official records state he was closer to 20. Instead of opting for the role of merciful child-ruler, Benedict IX modelled himself more after Game of Thrones’ Joffrey Baratheon - in other words, he was a kind of a dick. Later Popes such as Victor III described his reign so: “His life as a pope was so vile, so foul, so execrable, that I shudder to think of it.” Considering his competition, that says quite a bit. He was said to have hosted all-male orgies in the Lateran palace and freely raped men, women, children and animals. Benedict IX also holds the distinction of being the only man to sell the papacy, which he later regretted and took back by force. He later abdicated the papacy and was excommunicated, dying as a normal - but unreasonably rich - man."
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Moff said:
I am no parent, but both me and my brother (he was the rascal) were raised in a loving and peaceful household.
I would be deeply ashamed if I could not accomplish what my parents did, raising my children without violence or even the threat of it.

I can't believe some of the discussions here, if you leave bruises and marks that is when you've gone to far? disgusting and shameful.
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right now you are something like a unicorn in here lol
looks like for most people in here its not conceivable of growing up without spankings and maybe it is even somewhat abnormal to them lol
 
silvermember said:
There isn't anything wrong with spanking your kids. If you spank your kids and it leaves a mark then went to far.

Some kids just need to be spanked.
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Yeah, I was spanked as a kid (very infrequently), but it wasn't so much a slap as it was a hard tap. Kind of like spraying a cat with water when it does something bad. It's hardly traumatising.
 
I got spanked and I feel like it didn't impact me negatively in any way. In some ways it made me know that was the last result of punishment and I never wanted to misbehave to the point where I got a spanking. I wasn't always successful lol.
 
pashmilla said:
Yeah, I was spanked as a kid (very infrequently), but it wasn't so much a slap as it was a hard tap. Kind of like spraying a cat with water when it does something bad. It's hardly traumatising.
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Pretty sure that's animal abuse.
 
I was never spanked as a child (cuz that's illegal), but I knew that I should respect my parents and try my damndest not to disappoint them.
Knowing that you'd done something wrong was punishment in itself for me as a kid :lol. Usually got let off the hook because I was just drowning in remorse.

Ikuu said:
Pretty sure that's animal abuse.
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Not really. Cat's don't have a deathly fear of water, it's just surprises them and catches them off guard. In a slightly unpleasant way. They generally avoid water because it messes up all their hard work with keeping their fur all nice and tidy. Some cats straight up love water though, like mine, he likes to shower, he even begs for it :lol.


Edit: Anyway, regarding the Pope's statement, there is a line where spanking crosses over into abuse and that line was drawn before you even touch the child to begin with so.. I mean he's pretty progressive for an old christian fart, but he's still old, he was raised like a millennium ago.
 
Never trust popular reporting on the pope; that is the reason so many of you seem confused on his basic doctrines and statements in these threads. In any case, at least judge the remarks in direct translation and in full (paragraph bolded):

Dear Brothers and Sisters, Good morning!

Today I would like to develop the second part of my reflection on the figure of the father in the family. Last time I spoke about the danger of “absent” fathers, today I would like to look instead at the positive aspect. Even St Joseph was tempted to leave Mary, when he discovered that she was pregnant; but the Angel of the Lord intervened and revealed to him God’s plan and his mission as foster father; and Joseph, a just man, “took his wife” (Mt 1:24) and became the father of the family of Nazareth.

Every family needs a father. Today we shall reflect on the value of his role, and I would like to begin with a few expressions that we find in the Book of Proverbs, words that a father addresses to his own son, and it reads like this: “My son, if your heart is wise, my heart too will be glad. My soul will rejoice when your lips speak what is right” (Pr 23:15-16). Nothing could better express the pride and emotion a father feels when he understands that he has handed down to his child what really matters in life, that is, a wise heart. This father does not say: “I am proud of you because you are the same as me, because you repeat the things I say and do”. No, he does not say anything so simple to him. He says something much more important, which we can understand in this way: “I will be happy every time I see you act with wisdom, and I will be moved every time that I hear you speak with rectitude. This is what I wanted to leave to you, that this one thing become yours: the attitude to feel and act, to speak and judge with wisdom and rectitude. And that you might be like this, I taught you the things you didn’t know, I corrected the errors you didn’t see. I made you feel a profound and at the same time discrete affection, which maybe you did not fully recognize when you were young and unsure. I gave you a testimony of rigour and steadfastness that perhaps you didn’t understand, when you would have liked only complicity and protection. I had first to test myself in the wisdom of my heart, be vigilant of my excesses of sentiment and resentment, in order to carry the weight of the inevitable misunderstandings, to find the right words to make myself understood.” Now, continues the father, “I see that you strive to be this way with your own children, and with everyone, and it moves me. I am happy to be your father”. This is what a wise father, a mature father, says. A father knows all too well what it costs to hand down this heritage: how close, how gentle and how firm to be. But what consolation and what recompense he receives when the children honour this legacy! It is a joy that rewards all the toil, that overcomes every misunderstanding and heals every wound.

The first need, then, is precisely this: that a father be present in the family. That he be close to his wife, to share everything, joy and sorrow, hope and hardship. And that he be close to his children as they grow: when they play and when they strive, when they are carefree and when they are distressed, when they are talkative and when they are silent, when they are daring and when they are afraid, when they take a wrong step and when they find their path again; a father who is always present. To say “present” is not to say “controlling”! Fathers who are too controlling cancel out their children, they don't let them develop.

The Gospel speaks to us about the exemplarity of the Father who is in Heaven — who alone, Jesus says, can be truly called the “good Father” (cf. Mk 10:18). Everyone knows that extraordinary parable of the “prodigal son”, or better yet of the “merciful father”, which we find in the Gospel of Luke in chapter 15 (cf. 15:11-32). What dignity and what tenderness there is in the expectation of that father, who stands at the door of the house waiting for his son to return! Fathers must be patient. Often there is nothing else to do but wait; pray and wait with patience, gentleness, magnanimity and mercy.

A good father knows how to wait and knows how to forgive from the depths of his heart. Certainly, he also knows how to correct with firmness: he is not a weak father, submissive and sentimental. The father who knows how to correct without humiliating is the one who knows how to protect without sparing himself. Once I heard a father at a meeting on marriage say: “Sometimes I have to strike the children lightly... but never in the face so as not to humiliate them”. How beautiful! He has a sense of dignity. He must punish, but he does it in a just way, and moves on.

If, then, there is someone who can fully explain the prayer of the “Our Father”, taught by Jesus, it is the one who lives out paternity in the first person. Without the grace that comes from the Father who is in Heaven, fathers loose courage, and abandon camp. But children need to find a father waiting for them when they come home after failing. They will do everything not to admit it, not to show it, but they need it; and not to find it opens wounds in them that are difficult to heal.

The Church, our mother, is committed to supporting with all her strength the good and generous presence of fathers in families, for they are the irreplaceable guardians and mediators of faith in goodness, of faith in justice and in God’s protection, like St Joseph.
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(source)

If you've raised an unruly toddler you must know that a light slap on the hand or arm is sometimes the best way to communicate that an action is off limits. There is also a whole history of cultural responses to this; I recall several articles in which individuals from other communities (black, lower class, etc) stuck up for their sometimes more physical and bodily mode of communicating between family members, something misperceived by many overly concerned white and upper class groups as violence, rather than a more embodied kind of communication without the carefully circumscribed distances and modes of speaking that belong only to the latter demographics.
 
daniels said:
right now you are something like a unicorn in here lol
looks like for most people in here its not conceivable of growing up without spankings and maybe it is even somewhat abnormal to them lol
Click to expand...

Well in a lot of places it is abnormal. Literally EVERYONE were I'm from was spanked.
 
pashmilla said:
Yeah, I was spanked as a kid (very infrequently), but it wasn't so much a slap as it was a hard tap. Kind of like spraying a cat with water when it does something bad. It's hardly traumatising.
Click to expand...

Children are not animals; it is possible to use verbal communication with them even though they are young.
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Aside from the fact that "LOL YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A PARENT" is the laziest argument you can make, kids that young can absolutely understand.

Our son knows to stop 2 feet from the top of the stairs and wait for one of us to carry him down. We accomplished this by repetition. Letting him get close to the edge (supervised of course), then moving him back and firmly saying no.

Same with the stove. We'll hold him up and say "hot!" and put our hands up. Whenever he even sees fire (stove, fireplace, etc...) he does it.

We're very fortunate that he responds so well to this type of teaching. I'm not saying it's the solution for everyone. But parenting doesn't boil down to "spanking or bust."

You DO NOT have to be a parent to participate in this discussion or have a valid opinion.
Click to expand...

That is great. It looks like you lucked out into a kid that does not have to do things the hard way. How old is he? When I read things like this it reminds me that it took ages to get my kid to stop biting the cat...
 
rooflapimp said:
Children are not animals; it is possible to use verbal communication with them even though they are young.
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Like I said, it was infrequent (literally perhaps two or three times in my life) and only when I was refusing to understand that my actions had been wrong. I personally wouldn't spank my children, though.
 
hachi said:
A good father knows how to wait and knows how to forgive from the depths of his heart. Certainly, he also knows how to correct with firmness: he is not a weak father, submissive and sentimental. The father who knows how to correct without humiliating is the one who knows how to protect without sparing himself. Once I heard a father at a meeting on marriage say: “Sometimes I have to strike the children lightly... but never in the face so as not to humiliate them”. How beautiful! He has a sense of dignity. He must punish, but he does it in a just way, and moves on.
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What a monster! Glad to see GAF knee jerk again and have a witch hunt.
 
Volimar said:
That is great. It looks like you lucked out into a kid that does not have to do things the hard way. How old is he? When I read things like this it reminds me that it took ages to get my kid to stop biting the cat...
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He's 16 months old now, but he knew about the stairs thing since he started walking at around 11 or 12 months.
 
Y'know what. Everyone saying spanking is child abuse... yall are absolutely right. You've shown me the light.

Let's throw all those millions of parents in jail for spanking their child. They're fucking scum, let them rot in prison for the rest of their life.
 
Spanking and hitting children is from the time where people in the developed world thought that giving a prisoner lashes actually was a effective method of rehabilitation.

People still for some reason like those folksy, righteous ways of delivering "justice."

There isn't widespread acceptance of spanking or hitting dogs, but it's cool to hit children, because they are still considered to be property for you to exert control over.

No one should hit or abuse their dog, child, wife, brother etc. Spanking doesn't help anything. It's an outlet for your own frustration and a way to bring balance to your world. It makes the spanker feel that they have some kind of control. That's the result of spanking. It's a self-centered action that soothes the spanker and scars the victim.
 
hachi said:
Never trust popular reporting on the pope; that is the reason so many of you seem confused on his basic doctrines and statements in these threads. In any case, at least judge the remarks in direct translation and in full (paragraph bolded):



(source)

If you've raised an unruly toddler you must know that a light slap on the hand or arm is sometimes the best way to communicate that an action is off limits. There is also a whole history of cultural responses to this; I recall several articles in which individuals from other communities (black, lower class, etc) stuck up for their sometimes more physical and bodily mode of communicating between family members, something misperceived by many overly concerned white and upper class groups as violence, rather than a more embodied kind of communication without the carefully circumscribed distances and modes of speaking that belong only to the latter demographics.
Click to expand...

/End Thread
 
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