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[JABEE]

If you forced an adult to eat, or to go to certain places or to do a number of things parents typically make kids do you would be charged too. Children arent adults. This argument was always dumb and always will be

You are in custody of the child though. They have to eat in order to live and survive. If you are the caretaker for an elderly person it is the same way. You take certain responsibilities. I don't think one of those responsibilities is hitting the person you are caring for.

I understand that children need to be taught things by their parents, but there is no evidence that spanking or hitting actually works. Also, we as a society used to tolerate many forms of abuse to women, children, animals, handicapped people. We told people that wasn't cool and made efforts to curb it.

The only reason spanking kids isn't widely condemned in this country is that we have some feeling that we get to decide to do what we want with our "property." It's still cool to think that children are property and not a living creature/person worthy of respect.

 

[braves01]

goodparent.org Evidence favoring the use of disciplinary spanking

 

[Mighty Chin]

Your anecdote is meaningless against of a mountain of real data and research.

Last time I checked I'm real. Let me check again.

Yup still real.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

People who were spanked and are ok with it how often would you say you were spanked? Say per month? I've always wondered.

People keep acting like parents that spank use that as their only form of discipline. I was spanked maybe a couple times a year.

 

[Jarmel]

Are people who are okay with spanking also okay with other adults and authority figures doing it too? I mean after all, it's just a positive disciplinary reinforcement right? So should teachers, coaches, Zachary Quinto, ect...also be allowed to rap your child across the butt if they are misbehaving?

Not speaking as a parent but if I trusted that the individual was spanking my child for clear reasons that they identified to the child, and only after other avenues had been attempted.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Almost seems like someone had a talk with the Pope and told him it's time to fall back in line.

 

[Raptomex]

I would never hit a child. Violence should never be the answer.

 

[Run]

So you would only spank children if they want to join street gangs? Not for any other reason?

Yep. Only reason I was ever spanked. Didn't want spankings? Don't hang out with those gang bangers.

 

[Volimar]

I'd like to share that my mother, a young woman who emmigrated from the middle east to the United States would have me turn my palms up and hit them with wooden slats. I love my mother, and I think she thought she was doing the right thing, but this is some ignorant, repugnant shit, especially when I was, at this point, a child perfectly capable of reason.

I think this is an important post. I feel like a lot of people push back against criticisms of physical punishment because they do not want to fault their parents, whom they love. It is okay to admit that they may have thought they were doing the right thing but that we now accept that there is a better way.

 

[Business]

I received some as a child and to be honest I think it made me good.

 

[Kinitari]

Never trust popular reporting on the pope; that is the reason so many of you seem confused on his basic doctrines and statements in these threads. In any case, at least judge the remarks in direct translation and in full (paragraph bolded):



(source)

If you've raised an unruly toddler you must know that a light slap on the hand or arm is sometimes the best way to communicate that an action is off limits. There is also a whole history of cultural responses to this; I recall several articles in which individuals from other communities (black, lower class, etc) stuck up for their sometimes more physical and bodily mode of communicating between family members, something misperceived by many overly concerned white and upper class groups as violence, rather than a more embodied kind of communication without the carefully circumscribed distances and modes of speaking that belong only to the latter demographics.

Uh, that's the same thing I read in the OP. It doesn't make what he said suddenly agreeable.

It's been shown repeatedly, like a lot, that it's not only entirely possible to raise a child without ever so much as gently tapping them, this sort of parenting is significantly better for a child.

It should be encouraged that parents find beauty in... You know... Not hitting their kids. Non violence and all that.


If you want to say that your current kid, or future kid is gonna be one of those kids that absolutely needs physical punishment, I'm gonna have trouble believing that.

 

[Easy_D]

Last time I checked I'm real. Let me check again.

Yup still real.

A single person doesn't hold any kind of statistical value. That doesn't make your experience any less true of course, but it's impossible to generalise from it.

 

[Siegcram]

I present to you myself

As evidence that illiteracy is still a problem?

 

[Lautaro]

Haha that's what you get for thinking a teocrat is "dope".

 

[Mighty Chin]

Are people who are okay with spanking also okay with other adults and authority figures doing it too? I mean after all, it's just a positive disciplinary reinforcement right? So should teachers, coaches, Zachary Quinto, ect...also be allowed to rap your child across the butt if they are misbehaving?

They could try, it wouldn't end well for them though.

 

[daniels]

accuse parents that have their kids circumsised of genital mutilation.

i have bad news for you

 

[Gintamen]

I present to you myself

What about non-anecdotal do you not understand?

 

[void666]

He is right.

Gaf is so PC. Child abuse? C'mon...

My parents spanked me when i was a kid a few times. And i deserved it. Sometimes words are not enough.
Of course there are limits. A friend's father used to spank him for stupid reasons, with a wire and then proceed to lock him in a dark room for hours. This is abuse.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Almost seems like someone had a talk with the Pope and told him it's time to fall back in line.

Lol what

He is right.

Gaf is so PC. Child abuse? C'mon...

My parents spanked me when i was a kid a few times. And i deserved it. Sometimes words are not enough.
Of course there are limits. A friend's father used to spank him for stupid reasons, with a wire and then proceed to lock him in a dark room for hours. This is abuse.

You didn't deserve it.

 

[Nocebo]

It's slightly upsetting that some of you are comparing mild spanking to child abuse, and it's very insulting to those that have lived through the real thing.

I'm not even keen on spanking itself, but this is just cheapening what the term means.

Alright. Quantify what "mild spanking" is in such a way that it can't be considered subjective. You can also attempt to argue that the world "mild" isn't incredibly subjective.

 

[Lindbergh]

Big deal! When I was a pup, we got spanked by Popes till the cows came home. Benedict IX spanked me on three nonconsecutive occasions.

 

[Crantius_Colto]

Well in a lot of places it is abnormal. Literally EVERYONE were I'm from was spanked.

It's the opposite here. I don't think any closer friend I have ever got spanked. I know their parents and they're all firmly againt corporeal punishment in any way. Talking to my colleagues, spanking is a no-go for every one of them.
Edit: Yeah, it's anecdotal. But I alwys got the impression that everyone agreed on that here in Germany and that it's rightfully banned. The reactions commonly are "lol, it wasn't banned until 2000? Unbelieavable."

I was never spanked as a child (cuz that's illegal), but I knew that I should respect my parents and try my damndest not to disappoint them.
Knowing that you'd done something wrong was punishment in itself for me as a kid :lol. Usually got let off the hook because I was just drowning in remorse.

That's more like it. A good scolding was the worst that could happen to me as a child. Which was really awful every time as I'm in strong need of harmony. My mother not being happy with me was punishment enough. There were several levels ranging from being disappointed to not talking to me or being downright angry. And, yes, every time I ended up feeling utter remorse.

 

[nasax]

Last time I checked I'm real. Let me check again.

Yup still real.

Apparently you can't use what you learned growing up, even if it worked, because there's a group of people that don't agree with your views.

 

[poppabk]

You seriously can't figure out some way to teach your children basic things in a way that doesn't involve corporal punishment? How about some critical thinking or doing a Google search before you strike, or is that too much to ask?

Its not corporal punishment, anymore than yelling 'stop' is verbal punishment. Its not supposed to punish but to provide a slight shock to emphasize the danger that something poses, because they can't comprehend the real danger.
For the record I haven't spanked either of my kids, the most I have done is slapped them on the back of the hand when they were reaching for something potentially dangerous. I wasn't spanked as a child either.

 

[Gintamen]

goodparent.org Evidence favoring the use of disciplinary spanking

. Roberts MW & Powers SW. Adjusting chair timeout enforcement procedures for oppositional children. Behavioral Therapy. 1990;21:257-271.

[ii]. Bean AW & Roberts MW. The effect of timeout release contingencies on changes in child noncompliance. J Abn Child Psych. 1981;9:95-105

[iii]. Day DE & Roberts MW. An analysis of the physical punishment component of a parent training program. J Abn Child Psychol. 1983;11:141-152.

[iv]. Forehand RL & McMahon RJ. Helping the noncompliant child. 1981;pp 79-80. New York:Guilford Press.

[v] Guarendi R. Back to the Family. 1990;215-222. New York: Simon & Schuster.

[vi] Tennant FS, Jr., Detels R, & Clark V. Some childhood antecedents of drug and alcohol abuse. American Journal of Epidemiology. 1975;102:377-385.

Eh, those are outdated studies, when spanking was pretty much "normal".

 

[Mighty Chin]

A single person doesn't hold any kind of statistical value. That doesn't make your experience any less true of course, but it's impossible to generalise from it.

I'm sure others in this thread could present themselves as well.

 

[Frog-fu]

I would never hit a child. Violence should never be the answer.

And cheaters never prosper.

 

[Prime crotch]

Why lol?

Not even the most crass belt weilding father would defend spanking a freakin baby. For not wanting to post anedoctal evidence yours sure didn't help matters

 

[Coffee Dog]

I received some as a child and to be honest I think it made me good.

I'm sorry you think that, but there's no reason to think it did.

 

[Josh7289]

Last time I checked I'm real. Let me check again.

Yup still real.

It's great for you that you're fine.

But when it comes to recommendations and public policy, individual anecdotes are insignificant. The only thing that matters is comprehensive research, and the research has found that hitting children is bad.

 

[Alienous]

He's gone all "If I can't be the best, I sure as hell can be the worst" in recent times.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I am against illegalising spanking, but I don't think it should be encouraged. My dad spanked me a few times only and...I deserved it. I was a little brat at times. My dad is one of the gentlest people I know, and I know back in his day kids were beaten for the slightest transgression. The other extreme, which I think was awful. I think there is a difference between using discipline and spanking with intention to harm. These are two different things. While the studies listed above do show that spanking can actually excerbate aggressiveness, there is nothing to say it is in and of itself a primary factor in making children into aggressive adults. There are so many other factors to consider: family context; peer group relations; social-economic status; genetic disposition, etc.

In general, I am not in favour of spanking. In fact I think it should be discouraged. However, I don't think in this instance it is the state's place to fully prohibit. It is a perfect world law for an imperfect world and inappropriate given the diversity of types of character in this world and what works for parenting. Hell, it is common amongst other mammals for mum or dad to give a child a cough if the child is being very irritating, and the child doesnt seem to hold a particular grudge when I have viewed the occurence. I hold to the opinion however that it is not just the type of offence that is significant, but the way it is administered, the extent to which it is undertaken, and the intention behind it.

 

[daniels]

They could try, it wouldn't end well for them though.

this kinda says it all doesnt it?? You would not allow anyone else be it teacher, doctor or whatever to spank you child because you know it is wrong.
But as long as it is you that does the wrong thing and not somebody else its ok for you because in your mind you are always right even if you do something wrong.

 

[Kyoufu]

Physical assault is wrong, more so against children.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Apparently you can't use what you learned growing up, even if it worked, because there's a group of people that don't agree with your views.

I'm sorry am I supposed to create a consensus?

 

[JABEE]

I think this is an important post. I feel like a lot of people push back against criticisms of physical punishment because they do not want to fault their parents, whom they love. It is okay to admit that they may have thought they were doing the right thing but that we now accept that there is a better way.

Exactly. Children used to be forced to work in coal mines and factories to support their families, but we realized as a society that we shouldn't allow parents to make that decision.

There are so many examples of these medieval punishments being curbed or diminished over the years, but people still hang onto spanking their children or using a switch on their kids.

 

[gofreak]

Whatever the merits and demerits of physical discipline of kids, I wouldn't take childcare advice from the catholic church.

On the topic itself though, I don't agree with smacking personally. For others, my biggest fear about 'authorities' giving any license to physical discipline is that a non-negligible number of people may not know how to wield that license responsibly, and people who defer to physical discipline too readily might take succor from comments like this.

Also, catholic institutions have a terrible track record of sadistic corporal punishment. Its leader has little business giving any commentary around ANY level of physical discipline.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Some kids need a good smack. Some kids it's the only thing that keeps their ass in line.

It shouldn't be the first thing used to discipline. But I think the threat of catching that ass whoopin' as a child prevented me from doing some pretty shitty things...

With that said I'm not sure if I'm going to hit my kids. But I'm not closing my mind off to the idea. It depends.

 

[Mighty Chin]

this kinda says it all doesnt it?? You would not allow anyone else be it teacher, doctor or whatever to spank you child because you know it is wrong. But as long as it is you that does the wrong thing and not somebody else its ok for you because in your mind you are always right even if you do something wrong.

The raising of the child is my responsibility not theirs.

 

[braves01]

Eh, those are outdated studies, when spanking was pretty much "normal".

A couple were updated. One was followed-up in 2012, another is from 2005. I admit not the freshest research out there, but old doesn't always necessarily mean outdated.

 

[ampere]

Pope gonna pope.

I admit I was slightly fooled he was different from the other popes for awhile, but lately he's been on the archaic philosophy train. Oh well.

 

[Nocebo]

I received some as a child and to be honest I think it made me good.

Of course it did. Because why else would your parent, the person who is supposed to care the most for you and your well being cause you pain?

Spoiler

lol stockholm syndrome?

 

[nasax]

I'm sorry am I supposed to create a consensus?

Take a poll next time bro, if it passes then you can voice your opinion and experiences.

 

[Business]

I'm sorry you think that, but there's no reason to think it did.

I'm sorry.

Of course it did. Because why else would your parent, the person who is supposed to care the most for you and your well being cause you pain?

Spoiler

lol stockholm syndrome?

In the middle of your lols the difference between getting spanked and beat up completely flew over your head.

 

[Effect]

Spanking is abuse?

.

It always bothers me when people try to act like it is abuse. I keep wondering if they really think that (and need the differences explained to them) or if they purposefully trying to muddy things by pushing that thought.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I'm sure if the police started beating people for improperly parking, parking would drastically improve.

As long as it's effective, we should employ it without question!

 

[John_B]

You can discipline your children without using physical force. It doesn't take a scientist to understand that controlling someone through fear of physical pain is not healthy for them.

We can train dogs without beating them, it should be possible to discipline children without hitting them.

Some light spanking might not be the end of the world for kids, but keeping that form of discipline alive by accepting any part of it, does not help us to get rid of it.

Also look up sites like WHO or unicef and see how big a problem that child abuse is everywhere. One key step to solve this issue is for parents to learn a non-violent way of disciplining their children and not just apply what their own parents knew.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Of course it did. Because why else would your parent, the person who is supposed to care the most for you and your well being cause you pain?

Spoiler

lol stockholm syndrome?

I ask myself the same thing all the time when I think about all those Sundays and Wednesdays when my parents forced me to go to church.

 

[Easy_D]

I'm sure others in this thread could present themselves as well.

Sure. But we can't prove anything like that. There's no way to know whether you'd ended up the same way with or without it. You'd need a sizable sample of kids that you'd follow from their childhood up to adulthood.

You'd need two groups, one with children that are spanked, and one that isn't (the control group). You need to compare the two using similar demographics. You can't just grab 20 dudes who all say "Yeah I turned out better because I was spanked" because it literally does not prove a single thing.

It's not scientific.

 

[Gintamen]

Some kids need a good smack. Some kids it's the only thing that keeps their ass in line.

The whole problem is that they even let the child get so spoiled that he though it was okay to act like that to begin with. This surely wasn't the first time the kid did act out in a angry way. Same problem with those "gang member" arguments. If you are already part of a "wild" gang, much must have already been done wrong in the upbringing of the child/teenager.