Pope Francis says it is OK to smack children if their ‘dignity is maintained’

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PhantomHound said:
Y'know what. Everyone saying spanking is child abuse... yall are absolutely right. You've shown me the light.

Let's throw all those millions of parents in jail for spanking their child. They're fucking scum, let them rot in prison for the rest of their life.
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While we are at it, we should toss all the parents who forced their children to attend church services. Child abuse and all, fucking scum parents.
 
richardhawk said:
Shoutouts to all my dudes raised by immigrant parents laughing at this thread. I see you.
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Shoutouts to the people who were accustomed to ignorant parenting through physical and psychological abuse and are therefore indifferent to its continuance and advocation by the papacy.
 
Gintamen said:
What exaggeration? It's done to inflict pain and/or fear.
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Since when is a slight tap to the butt or a flick to the wrist anything of what you're saying? Everything isn't getting a belt to leave marks on the body. That's the exaggeration I'm talking about.
 
I shudder to think about what pro spanking people do to discipline their pets.
If their rabbit or hamster poops where they're not allowed to or nibbles at some cables do they just slap them across the head or something? Maybe flick them on the nose?
 
HiredN00bs said:
Shoutouts to the people who were accustomed to ignorant parenting through physical and psychological abuse and are therefore indifferent to its continuance and advocation by the papacy.
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HiredN00bs
09:41 AM
 
Slight tap on the butt

All parents execute this masterfully accurate precision strike that produces no discernable physical or psychological damage and most effectively accomplishes their end goal of letting the kid know who's boss and what happens if they forget it.
 
ItIsOkBro said:
so is grounding.
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So what? You won't see me promoting that either.

HiredN00bs said:
Slight tap on the butt

All parents execute this masterfully accurate precision strike that produces no discernable physical or psychological damage and most effectively accomplishes their end goal of letting the kid know who's boss and what happens if they forget it.
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Ouch that wording... you meant parent or nurturer, not boss.
 
I grew up in Nigeria and was spanked by teachers, now that was bad. Some of the teachers clearly had fun using those canes. I doubt I'll ever spank my kids like I was there are easier ways to punish, but I won't know for sure till I have them.
 
Nocebo said:
I shudder to think about what pro spanking people do to discipline their pets.
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I don't beat my dog. But I will beat my kids.

"What is abuse?" I bet if I sneezed on my kid in public I'd get child services called on. Americans.
 
BeatResetsTheWorld said:
If you forced an adult to eat, or to go to certain places or to do a number of things parents typically make kids do you would be charged too. Children arent adults. This argument was always dumb and always will be
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Yeah, so next time my kids don't want to go to grandmas house and I force them too.. is it kidnapping?

That argument isn't productive, you're right.

Spanking a child isn't child abuse, and to suggest it is crazy.
 
hachi said:
Never trust popular reporting on the pope; that is the reason so many of you seem confused on his basic doctrines and statements in these threads. In any case, at least judge the remarks in direct translation and in full (paragraph bolded):



(source)

If you've raised an unruly toddler you must know that a light slap on the hand or arm is sometimes the best way to communicate that an action is off limits. There is also a whole history of cultural responses to this; I recall several articles in which individuals from other communities (black, lower class, etc) stuck up for their sometimes more physical and bodily mode of communicating between family members, something misperceived by many overly concerned white and upper class groups as violence, rather than a more embodied kind of communication without the carefully circumscribed distances and modes of speaking that belong only to the latter demographics.
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Yeah that translation really doesn't come off as anything other than "As long as you don't punch 'em in the face it's OK. Spank away parents! Also men can't be soft and sensitive kthxbai"
 
HiredN00bs said:
Shoutouts to the people who were accustomed to ignorant parenting through physical and psychological abuse and are therefore indifferent to its continuance and advocation by the papacy.
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LOL. You serious fam? I would be in fucking jail if my parents didn't beat my ass. Child abuse and smacking your kid for being a shit bag aren't the same thing. Keep thinking that though.
 
rooflapimp said:
Children are not animals; it is possible to use verbal communication with them even though they are young.
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But by that definition then it is also possible that the child being able to understand your verbal instruction just plainly decides to ignore them right?
Since people here makes the parallel with adults = children so no spanking then we must admit that children are capable of going against the wishes of their parents if they want to.
What's a suitable answer to that kind of behavior?

Again most people saying spanking is fine are not saying that it should be used if unnecessary. I've seen children react properly to verbal sermon only, some not so much that's all.
 
Instead of saying "lol people in this thread," how about those who are okay with spanking provide some non-anecdotal evidence on its effectiveness?

Like this from Cornell.

Cornell Study said:
Spanking is Ineffective

Most parents who spank their children believe that spanking will teach kids what is wrong (when they get spanked) and what is right (the absence of a spank). However, researchers find that children learn in more complex ways and need to internalize the reasons behind appropriate behavior, without the threat of physical punishment (Grusec & Goodnow, 1994, Hoffman, 1983).

Time-outs yield same short-term compliance as spanking.

One study analyzed the difference between spanking and time-outs, when asking children to comply with 30 various commands from their mothers (Roberts & Powers, 1990). The researchers found that when baseline differences were taken into account, spanking was not more effective than time-outs (Gershoff & Grogan-Kaylor, 2013).

Long-term compliance: spanking is not effective.

To study if spanking encourages long-term compliance, researchers examined the development and evidence of conscience or guilt, obedience to commands, and resistance
to temptation (Gershoff, 2013). The results reveal that spanking is associated with evidence of conscience; however more spanking is associated with less compliance over time (Gershoff, 2002; Gershoff & Grogan-Kaylor, 2013).

Spanking increases child aggression.

Many parents report that they are most likely to spank after a child behaves aggressively (Holden, Coleman, & Schmidt, 1995). However after reviewing 27 relevant studies, the results all point to the finding that spanking is associated with more child aggression, not less (Gershoff, 2002). These findings, however, raise more questions: Do children who are more aggressive encourage parents to spank? and, Does
spanking promote aggression in children, or do more aggressive children get spanked? In response to these questions, researchers conducted several longitudinal studies and measured baseline aggression levels for each child. These studies found that while more aggressive children were spanked more frequently, spanking increased their aggression levels, even when controlling
for baseline aggression (Lee, Altschul, & Gershoff, 2013).

Spanking sends mixed messages.

Children cannot learn through spanking alone why their behavior was incorrect (Hoffman, 1983). In fact, spanking teaches children to behave only when the threat of physical punishment is
present. Once the threat of physical punishment is gone they have no reason to behave appropriately (Hoffman, 1983). Furthermore, it can be very frightening and confusing for a child to be hit by a parent who they also love and depend on. One research study found that children report feelings of fear, anger, and sadness after being spanked (Dobbs, Smith, & Taylor, 2006). Even if parents also take time to explain the internal reasons why a child should behave, the feelings children experience after being spanked make it difficult to internalize their parent’s explanation (Grusec & Goodnow, 1994).
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I imagine the people using loaded terms like "assault" to describe spanking are the same as the people who accuse parents that have their kids circumsised of genital mutilation. It's a pathetic way of depicting the oppossing side of the argument as barbaric and really doesn't invite much of a response aside from outright dismissal, i.e. it's counterproductive to discourse. So perhaps we should with that? I dunno, just an idea.

I reckon most, if not all but a few, in favour of phyiscal disciplinary action aren't talking about taking their day out on their kid or foregoing any dialogue whatsoever and just getting to asskicking, because that's not parenting. It's not parenting if there isn't a reason why, if there isn't a lesson to be taught for your child to learn.
 
Never trust popular reporting on the pope; that is the reason so many of you seem confused on his basic doctrines and statements in these threads. In any case, at least judge the remarks in direct translation and in full (paragraph bolded):
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Some of ya'll are waaaaaay too quick to jump aboard the outrage bandwagon before doing some basic research. How many thousands of times have we been burned by sensationalist click-bait headlines?
 
I'd like to share that my mother, a young woman who emmigrated from the middle east to the United States would have me turn my palms up and hit them with wooden slats. I love my mother, and I think she thought she was doing the right thing, but this is some ignorant, repugnant shit, especially when I was, at this point, a child perfectly capable of reason.

But the onus is not on the parent to be clever or devise ways to teach their children how to be civilized human beings that solve interpersonal conflict with non-violence. No, the onus is on the child to take their beatings from their primary authority figure.
 
Are people who are okay with spanking also okay with other adults and authority figures doing it too? I mean after all, it's just a positive disciplinary reinforcement right? So should teachers, coaches, Zachary Quinto, ect...also be allowed to rap your child across the butt if they are misbehaving?
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Instead of saying "lol people in this thread," how about those who are okay with spanking provide some non-anecdotal evidence on its effectiveness?
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Let's be fair here, all your evidence has been anecdotal as well. If you have a Pew Research spanking study, go ahead and link it, preferably without the passive aggressiveness that you just exhibited.
 
braves01 said:
What do you promote?
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Talking, the only real answer.

Me and my brother never got physically punished or were deprivation of freedom.

_

Where does this even start? You behaved badly, only got an C/D/E/F? Can a school grade be enough to start some kind of punishment?
 
Frog-fu said:
I imagine the people using loaded terms like "assault" to describe spanking are the same as the people who accuse parents that have their kids circumsised of genital mutilation.
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The unnecessary circumcision of an infant is genital mutilation.

I'm glad that people are able to justify the mutilation of their child's genitals to themselves too.

Whatever they need to do to sleep at night.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
Are people who are okay with spanking also okay with other adults and authority figures doing it too? I mean after all, it's just a positive disciplinary reinforcement right? So should teachers, coaches, Zachary Quinto, ect...also be allowed to rap your child across the butt if they are misbehaving?
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Teacher, sure.
Just a tap on a hand or pinch. I'm fine with that.
At least that's what happen to me. I still respect the teacher that did that to me, no hard feeling.
 
People who were spanked and are ok with it how often would you say you were spanked? Say per month? I've always wondered.
 
It's slightly upsetting that some of you are comparing mild spanking to child abuse, and it's very insulting to those that have lived through the real thing.

I'm not even keen on spanking itself, but this is just cheapening what the term means.
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Why lol?
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You think a 16 month old baby would try to join a gang?

Epicine said:
It's slightly upsetting that some of you are comparing mild spanking to child abuse, and it's very insulting to those that have lived through the real thing.

I'm not even keen on spanking itself, but this is just cheapening what the term means.
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Eh, the line has to be drawn somewhere, might as well keep it on the safe side. I'm sure no one here intends to insult or diminish the experiences of victims of systematic abuse.
 
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