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POPGAF |OT3| Geo Da Silva > nails on chalkboard > Taylor Swift

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D

DMeisterJ

Banned
Second said:
Y'all can try, but the Beyhive and Navy won't be dragging each other.

Rihanna is currently slaying all the faves, and Bey will be taking it over next year. No one can deny this.

But let me say this: Beyonce can't be compared to Rihanna when it comes to status. Bey is a legend and an icon. Something Rih has yet to achieve...
Click to expand...

Exactly. The can try to turn us against each other, but the BeyHive and NAVY are all here for the success of the Carter-Knowles'. No matter who is better, Bey, Jay, and Blue Ivy all line their pockets, and Rih gets her allowance.
 
B

botty

Banned
Hopefully in time people in here will appreciate the flawless work that is "B'day." There is nothing to skip, and every song is just as interesting and fresh as the one before it. It should also come as no surprise that Beyonce's most entertaining tour, "The Beyonce Experience," came during the B'day era.

While my days of stanning Beyonce are over, I will always believe in the artist Beyonce used to be.
ec20fb7f.gif
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
godelsmetric said:
You think that's it? You think Stevie Wonder gets invited to headline the Pyramid stage just because he sings well? OK.
Click to expand...

Thats not what I said at all.............

What I said is that Rih's inconsistency could keep her OFF it. I know if I was organizing a large live music event Rihanna isn't the first person I would think of for a headliner.

Comparing Stevie Wonder doesn't make much sense either....lets not pretend he doesn't get special status
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
4 is an artistic leap beyond her previous work though.

What is it with Fighters getting pressed whenever someone tries something fresh and forward thinking? Solange, Frank Ocean, Beyoncé, Azealia.

Is it all because when Xtina tried the result was Bionic?

Wafflecakes said:
Thats not what I said at all.............

What I said is that Rih's inconsistency could keep her OFF it. I know if I was organizing a large live music event Rihanna isn't the first person I would think of for a headliner.
Click to expand...
I think more than just her weak live performances is keeping Rih off that stage.

[edit]As for Stevie Wonder...yeah he gets special status. Which is my point. Those artists all share things in common.
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
Rihanna has more radio capital right now but radio capital is fickle. That's on a much lower level than someone who reaches an untouchable status to the point where radio performance isn't even part of the conversation anymore.

I think of it like Apple. They were selling iPods consistently well from 2003 to 2006, and while company was hugely popular and well-recognized, they weren't taken for granted as pop cultural heavyweights that demanded respect in a conversation. They were simply making successful products over and over.

After the iPhone and iPad came out, they've reached a golden metric that's so much higher than any current company has reached that a product flop was simply a strange anomaly. It wasn't something that people worried would "ruin" the company; it's so far up in the skies that little failures here and there are simply seen as "par for the course." That's how I'd define Beyonce right now. There were hardly any news stories saying "Beyonce's album a failure, what does that mean for her career?" because its performance was no longer a qualifier for her success. She's already so high up that it doesn't matter anymore.

Rihanna's still at the early stage. She's consistently been selling products and she's getting more and more popular in the process, but she could easily get phased out with a few wrong moves. A lot more easily than someone like Beyonce at least.
 
M

moulels

Member
Thanks gurls, I'm gonna get Dangerously in Love and be educated :D

Beyonc-Gifs-beyonce-27650180-293-184.gif


OMG she did Rhythm Heaven commercial I remember! I love ha now ;__;
 
D

DMeisterJ

Banned
Soulscribe said:
Rihanna has more radio capital right now but radio capital is fickle. That's on a much lower level than someone who reaches an untouchable status to the point where radio performance isn't even part of the conversation anymore.

I think of it like Apple. They were selling iPods consistently well from 2003 to 2006, and while company was hugely popular and well-recognized, they weren't taken for granted as pop cultural heavyweights that demanded respect in a conversation. They were simply making successful products over and over.

After the iPhone and iPad came out, they've reached a golden metric that's so much higher than any current company has reached that a product flop was simply a strange anomaly. It wasn't something that people worried would "ruin" the company; it's so far up in the skies that little failures here and there are simply seen as "par for the course." That's how I'd define Beyonce right now. There were hardly any news stories saying "Beyonce's album a failure, what does that mean for her career?" because its performance was no longer a qualifier for her success. She's already so high up that it doesn't matter anymore.

Rihanna's still at the early stage. She's consistently been selling products and she's getting more and more popular in the process, but she could easily get phased out with a few wrong moves. A lot more easily than someone like Beyonce at least.
Click to expand...

The Illuminati doesn't make wrong moves, especially not multiple wrong moves.
 
B

botty

Banned
godelsmetric said:
4 is an artistic leap beyond her previous work though.

What is it with Fighters getting pressed whenever someone tries something fresh and forward thinking? Solange, Frank Ocean, Beyoncé, Azealia.
Click to expand...

How can you call anything Beyonce and Azealia does fresh and forward thinking? It's all stolen from other people, eras, and then repackaged.

Solange does interesting things at times, and Frank Ocean's music is just terrible. And why do you keep saying "Fighters" when two of the four Fighters in here stan for Beyonce?
 
M

Mau ®

Member
Soulscribe said:
Rihanna's still at the early stage. She's consistently been selling products and she's getting more and more popular in the process, but she could easily get phased out with a few wrong moves. A lot more easily than someone like Beyonce at least.
Click to expand...

And she could also go on to become someone on a bigger level, no?

I mean why if she makes some mistakes she's over but she continues to make rights it goes unnoticed and its just "luck"?

I think its a bit unfair. I've never said she's a legend because she aint. But anyone who says she's not a powerful force that COULD go on to become a pop icon if she continues to be this consistent would be wrong too IMO.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
Would any of you even see it for Solange if she weren't Creole Christ's sister? Because although I like a selection of hers here and there, I've never been able to sit through a whole album, and I'm saying that as a huge fan of her Mod-soul genre she's trying to fit in.
 
A

Artemisia

Banned
botty said:
How can you call anything Beyonce and Azealia does fresh and forward thinking? It's all stolen from other people, eras, and then repackaged.

Solange does interesting things at times, and Frank Ocean's music is just terrible. And why do you keep saying "Fighters" when two of the four Fighters in here stan for Beyonce?
Click to expand...

How was the production on 4 not fresh? The album sounded nothing like what had been released in the past few years, or at the time.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
The Abominable Snowman said:
Would any of you even see it for Solange if she weren't Creole Christ's sister? Because although I like a selection of hers here and there, I've never been able to sit through a whole album, and I'm saying that as a huge fan of her Mod-soul genre she's trying to fit in.
Click to expand...

I haven't even listened to her previous work, but True is a BOP.
 
R

royalan

Member
godelsmetric said:
4 is an artistic leap beyond her previous work though.

What is it with Fighters getting pressed whenever someone tries something fresh and forward thinking? Solange, Frank Ocean, Beyoncé, Azealia.

Is it all because when Xtina tried the result was Bionic?


I think more than just her weak live performances is keeping Rih off that stage.

[edit]As for Stevie Wonder...yeah he gets special status. Which is my point. Those artists all share things in common.
Click to expand...

Nice try. But Xtina had her artistic album back when Bey was singing about complete and utter subservience to men.

I can do for you what Martin did for the people.
Ran by the men but the women keep the tempo.

Disgraceful.
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
inthezone said:
And she could also go on to become someone on a bigger level, no?

I mean why if she makes some mistakes she's over but she continues to make rights it goes unnoticed and its just "luck"?

I think its a bit unfair. I've never said she's a legend because she aint. But anyone who says she's not a powerful force that COULD go on to become a pop icon if she continues to be this consistent would be wrong too IMO.
Click to expand...

Of course she could go on to become someone bigger, but she still has a ways to go. She's on a right enough track, but I have my reasons for not trusting what I see from her now as something that will last or reach something that Beyonce has created for herself.

There's nothing particularly novel about Rihanna as a talent or personality that makes me think that she'll use what she has to keep on going. She only strikes me as a pretty girl with a decent voice who lucked out by having the most talented management team and production clan in the business currently. To me she seems to have garnered capital, success and reach through the talents and merits of the people behind the curtain (which is why I compare her to Britney Spears a lot). You can see it in ALL of her songs. Every single one of her successful singles become huge because they were well-written, well-produced, and thus highly played. They weren't successful only because she sang them. Yes, the snowball effect that happened after her success with GGGB made it so that her name on a single meant higher sales, I'm not disputing that. But it doesn't take away from the fact that at the ROOT of everything is a woman who is generally unremarkable. I might even slightly believe that she'll reach a status like Beyonce in 10 years, but a much bigger part of me doesn't want her to because I don't think she's worthy of it.

I can think of so many people right now in pop who, if given the same resources and team that Rihanna has, could truly take things to the next level musically. I don't think she has the creativity, vision, or raw talent to see it through.
 
A

Artemisia

Banned
royalan said:
Nice try. But Xtina had her artistic album back when Bey was singing about complete and utter subservience to men.

I can do for you what Martin did for the people.
Ran by the men but the women keep the tempo.

Disgraceful.
Click to expand...

I know those lyrics are not on 4 but
8f70c6ea.gif


I told you satch
8f70c6ea.gif
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
Soulscribe said:
Of course she could go on to become someone bigger, but she still has a ways to go. She's on a right enough track, but I have my reasons for not trusting what I see from her now as something that will last or reach something that Beyonce has created for herself.

There's nothing particularly novel about Rihanna as a talent or personality that makes me think that she'll use what she has to keep on going. She only strikes me as a pretty girl with a decent voice who lucked out by having the most talented management team and production clan in the business currently. To me she seems to have garnered capital, success and reach through the talents and merits of the people behind the curtain (which is why I compare her to Britney Spears a lot). You can see it in ALL of her songs. Every single one of her successful singles become huge because they were well-written, well-produced, and thus highly played. They weren't successful only because she sang them. Yes, the snowball effect that happened after her success with GGGB made it so that her name on a single meant higher sales, I'm not disputing that. But it doesn't take away from the fact that at the ROOT of everything is a woman who is generally unremarkable. I might even slightly believe that she'll reach a status like Beyonce in 10 years, but a much bigger part of me doesn't want her to because I don't think she's worthy of it.
Click to expand...

Very well written. Expresses my general opinion of her as well. Its never been that I don't like Rihanna's music (I like plenty of it)....but I never felt the need to ever give her all that much credit for it (unlike Beyonce...whose music I like MUCH less but I respect FAR more). Combined with Rihanna's off putting personality and I just can't.....
 
D

DMeisterJ

Banned
Roy just reminded me how much I love Upgrade U.

I don't think it's about girls serving their men, but upgrading them to something better. If you take two lines out of the song it can seem one way, but as a whole, it's about how a girl can upgrade a man. And I don't see how because that song exists, she doesn't similarly mean that a man can upgrade a woman. It's just sung from a woman's PoV because she is one. But the periods do like to find issues where there aren't any.
 
M

Mau ®

Member
Soulscribe said:
Of course she could go on to become someone bigger, but she still has a ways to go. She's on a right enough track, but I have my reasons for not trusting what I see from her now as something that will last or reach something that Beyonce has created for herself.

There's nothing particularly novel about Rihanna as a talent or personality that makes me think that she'll use what she has to keep on going. She only strikes me as a pretty girl with a decent voice who lucked out by having the most talented management team and production clan in the business currently. To me she seems to have garnered capital, success and reach through the talents and merits of the people behind the curtain (which is why I compare her to Britney Spears a lot). You can see it in ALL of her songs. Every single one of her successful singles become huge because they were well-written, well-produced, and thus highly played. They weren't successful only because she sang them. Yes, the snowball effect that happened after her success with GGGB made it so that her name on a single meant higher sales, I'm not disputing that. But it doesn't take away from the fact that at the ROOT of everything is a woman who is generally unremarkable. I might even slightly believe that she'll reach a status like Beyonce in 10 years, but a much bigger part of me doesn't want her to because I don't think she's worthy of it.

I can think of so many people right now in pop who, if given the same resources and team that Rihanna has, could truly take things to the next level musically. I don't think she has the creativity, vision, or raw talent to see it through.
Click to expand...

I disagree but respect your opinion.
 
K

Koodo

Banned
I'd be here for another Fergie album as long as shit.i.am doesn't peddle his brand of EDM on her.

Satch said:
i told myself i would never argue with anybody on this website ever again


but the lordt is testing me
Click to expand...
Let it all out, sis. You are... Satcha Fierce.

iGpnHtlrDGBS.gif
 
R

royalan

Member
I'm not even a Rihanna Stan, but I think it's sad that if ANYONE else was dominating as consistently and long as Rihanna has they'd be considered the front-runner for Icon/Queen of Pop status. But with Rihanna there has to be a bunch if nebulous reasons why they feel she's not The One. But the receipts steadily saying otherwise.

I mean HEW ELSE in the game RIGHT NOW has Rihanna's record? Nobody.

Rihanna is slaying and doing it bigger than anyone else, and that CERTAINLY includes Befraudce Gaselle Know-less.

It's starting to become supreme delusion to deny Rih her crown, tbh...
 
B

botty

Banned
Artemisia said:
How was the production on 4 not fresh? The album sounded nothing like what had been released in the past few years, or at the time.
Click to expand...

You didn't read what I said. The sounds are not forward thinking, because they are influenced heavily by other people and eras. Not to mention all the stuff that is blatantly stolen by Beyonce for her eras.

And even Beyonce has openly admitted that she was inspired by Adele and Florence... who literally just came out as artist not to long ago.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I am not even a huge Bey stan, but I recognise that Queen B simply exists on a different plane of existence to my lesser faves.
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
royalan said:
I'm not even a Rihanna Stan, but I think it's sad that if ANYONE else was dominating as consistently and long as Rihanna has they'd be considered the front-runner for Icon/Queen of Pop status. But with Rihanna there has to be a bunch if nebulous reasons why they feel she's not The One. But the receipts steadily saying otherwise.

I mean HEW ELSE in the game RIGHT NOW has Rihanna's record? Nobody.

Rihanna is slaying and doing it bigger than anyone else, and that CERTAINLY includes Befraudce Gaselle Know-less.

It's starting to become supreme delusion to deny Rih her crown, tbh...
Click to expand...

I think its folly to assume that success=status.

Maybe Rihanna will be considered a legend someday. I don't know. For now I simply don't think she has had the type of enduring impact that I expect of a legend or an Icon. If she flopped tomorrow HARD......in a dramatic fashion......I don't think she would have a stanbase left in 3/4 years. Unlike Xtina (who comparatively has had a great deal less total success) who seems to have a persistent fanbase no matter how long or hard she flops. Same goes from Britney or Madonna.....their music is eternal at this point no matter what they do. I don't think Rihanna has reached that point yet.
 
A

Artemisia

Banned
botty said:
You didn't read what I said. The sounds are not forward thinking, because they are influenced heavily by other people and eras. Not to mention all the stuff that is blatantly stolen by Beyonce for her eras.

And even Beyonce has openly admitted that she was inspired by Adele and Florence... who literally just came out as artist not to long ago.
Click to expand...

All music seeks influence and inspiration, nothing is truly new. 4 was fresh was and still is fresh on the music scene, as evidenced by nothing else sounding like it. Who else is putting out albums with songs ranging from 1+1, to Party, to Countdown, and Run The World? 4 isn't some typical R&B/Pop album.
 
R

royalan

Member
Wafflecakes said:
I think its folly to assume that success=status.

Maybe Rihanna will be considered a legend someday. I don't know. For now I simply don't think she has had the type of enduring impact that I expect of a legend or an Icon. If she flopped tomorrow HARD......in a dramatic fashion......I don't think she would have a stanbase left in 3/4 years. Unlike Xtina (who comparatively has had a great deal less total success) who seems to have a persistent fanbase no matter how long or hard she flops. Same goes from Britney or Madonna.....their music is eternal at this point no matter what they do. I don't think Rihanna has reached that point yet.
Click to expand...

But that's not something you can know UNTIL it happens.

Rih shouldn't have to flop before you give her her just due.
 
R

royalan

Member
Artemisia said:
All music seeks influence and inspiration, nothing is truly new. 4 was fresh was and still is fresh on the music scene, as evidenced by nothing else sounding like it. Who else is putting out albums with songs ranging from 1+1, to Party, to Countdown, and Run The World? 4 isn't some typical R&B/Pop album.
Click to expand...

That's EXACTLY what it is. Heck, 1+1 is as GENERIC as they come and Run The World was a two-year-old Dance hit BEFORE she recorded it.

I Miss You and End of Time are the freshest songs on that album.
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
royalan said:
But that's not something you can know UNTIL it happens.

Rih shouldn't have to flop before you give her her just due.
Click to expand...

Thats not what I was saying. Sure I can't "know" (can be said about virtually EVERYTHING when discussing long term status...do we KNOW MJ will be remembered in 50 years? No...but its probably true)......but I believe it is a strong likelihood. Which is all anyone has.
 
B

botty

Banned
Artemisia said:
All music seeks influence and inspiration, nothing is truly new. 4 was fresh was and still is fresh on the music scene, as evidenced by nothing else sounding like it. Who else is putting out albums with songs ranging from 1+1, to Party, to Countdown, and Run The World? 4 isn't some typical R&B/Pop album.
Click to expand...

Run The World is an attempt as re-capturing the success of Single Ladies.

1+1 sounds like a Prince B-side, and if you aren't aware.. Prince has still been releasing albums full of B-sides

Party is ok, but it uses samples... so how is this a "fresh" sound?

and while the Countdown song might sound kinda fresh... The video...

inthezone said:
LordT "I Miss you" was such a jam.

Even Frank doesnt have something as good as that on his discography imo.
Click to expand...

Wisdom.

xcABM.gif
 
Majmun

Majmun

Member
I Miss You is still my jam.

But outside of that song and End of Time, there are also tracks such as Countdown and Schoolin' Life that are real fresh.

I just love how diverse 4 is. Soul-r&b and neo-r&b are mixed very well.
 
A

Artemisia

Banned
botty said:
Run The World is an attempt as re-capturing the success of Single Ladies.

1+1 sounds like a Prince B-side, and if you aren't aware.. Prince has still been releasing albums full of B-sides

Party is ok, but it uses samples... so how is this a "fresh" sound?

and while the Countdown song might sound kinda fresh... The video...
Click to expand...

Songs with samples can't sound fresh? Someone should have told Kanye that, when he was making his debut album.

iUCBqAsYkTrCN.gif


You are missing the point I'm trying to make. 4's freshness and 'forward thinking'-ness comes from its diversity. Not every individual track is going to be the most innovative thing ever, but the album does many things and does them well.
 
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