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POPGAF |OT9| Too much shade can burn you...

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I've only ever heard Esta Noche which has exactly 3 great moments

I'd be open to hearing more from her but she'd have to e a r n that


EDIT: Happy birthday Applause-Plause, one of Gaga's best tunes, as well as her best music video and cover artwork. Slay me forever, you #4 Billboard smash. <3
 

cory64

Member
At least my fave has 2 full studio albers, 2 EPs, & a handful of features. Also helps that every single track is q u a l i t y.
 

Mau ®

Member
Poor Rita. Not only did Calvin completely destroyed her album, she now has to resort to Will.i.Am, whose last production work was Britney Jean.

Kiii
 
At least my fave has 2 full studio albers, 2 EPs, & a handful of features. Also helps that every single track is q u a l i t y.

It's a flawless discography, isn't it? Scrolling down her page, I was reminded of all the beautiful bops she has created. Such a shame she seems to have dropped off of the face of the earth. Maybe the Russians got to her.

One misstep among an otherwise stellar discography
Everybody's faves have put out a shit song or two in their career (or two good songs among a discography of shit if you stan taylor)

ATM Jam is her second most recent song, and although I like HM&R, there are still plenty of people who don't, and it certainly doesn't hold a candle to her earlier stuff. That trajectory is in a downward direction, an eternal what-could-have-been. The album being pushed back again in spite of her being 'Ms. Independent' is just delaying the inevitable: an album that doesn't live up to the promise that 1991 provided. Many artists start strong and then fizzle out. It's the music industry.

Meanwhile, Taylor's songwriting has only improved, and nobody goes around saying self-titled is her strongest album in the same way that Azealia stans keep parading 1991 every time her most recent work is criticised. Fearless, Speak Now and Red have all demonstrated clear improvements in her abilities, culminating in tracks such as All Too Well, State of Grace, Treacherous and Holy Ground.

If T5 follows the same steady trajectory of improvement she will bring forth a masterpiecé.

tl:dr: Azealia Banks and Taylor Swift stans both use material from 2012 as the shining example of their fave's talent. One artist's material is from her debut EP, and she has released (negligible amounts of) music since then. The other artist's material is from her fourth studio album after six years in the music industry, and she hasn't released music since then. Hmm.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
ATM Jam is her second most recent song, and although I like HM&R, there are still plenty of people who don't, and it certainly doesn't hold a candle to her earlier stuff. That trajectory is in a downward direction, an eternal what-could-have-been. The album being pushed back again in spite of her being 'Ms. Independent' is just delaying the inevitable: an album that doesn't live up to the promise that 1991 provided. Many artists start strong and then fizzle out. It's the music industry.

Meanwhile, Taylor's songwriting has only improved, and nobody goes around saying self-titled is her strongest album in the same way that Azealia stans keep parading 1991 every time her most recent work is criticised. Fearless, Speak Now and Red have all demonstrated clear improvements in her abilities, culminating in tracks such as All Too Well, State of Grace, Treacherous and Holy Ground.

If T5 follows the same steady trajectory of improvement she will bring forth a masterpiecé.

tl:dr: Azealia Banks and Taylor Swift stans both use material from 2012 as the shining example of their fave's talent. One artist's material is from her debut EP, and she has released (negligible amounts of) music since then. The other artist's material is from her fourth studio album after six years in the music industry, and she hasn't released music since then. Hmm.

end ha. defenestrate ha.

ib0RiE1vjKBO0L.gif
 
Everything wrong with the monsters in a single post

rihanna-400x300.jpg


Bored of these posts from you. A fan of [insert music act] will likely be a fan of [insert music act]'s work; this is not a new construct. It's why you're a fan of those musicians I've never heard of, and it's why we're all in this thread. Your Gaga shade is on auto-pilot at this point and I know you are capable of more. I'm gonna need you to be better.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
rihanna-400x300.jpg


Bored of these posts from you. A fan of [insert music act] will likely be a fan of [insert music act]'s work; this is not a new construct. It's why you're a fan of those musicians I've never heard of, and it's why we're all in this thread. Your Gaga shade is on auto-pilot at this point and I know you are capable of more. I'm gonna need you to be better.

Well I'm sorry but I stand by what I said. Applause is a decent enough song but calling it her best music video is [ d e l u s i o n ]. We're talking about a woman whose first alber contained some of the most iconic pop music imagery of all time (Poker Face). Applause doesn't even come close to that level of [ I C O N I C I T Y ] let alone her video [ M A G N U M &#8224; O P U S ] Bad Romance. I get that after Marry the Night even a video of Gaga singing on the toilet would have been a step up but that does not license you to claim that a video as definitively 'sufficient' as Applause is the best video of ha career.

If I'm on autopilot it's because the monsters keep making the same delusional claims about Gaga's career. She's always improving, her music is too avante garde for the mainstream, she writes for the art not the chart. It's all delusions. The sooner the Monsters get over it the sooner Gaga will too. And then she will be back to the wig-snatching bad bitch that you think she is instead of the sad goblin she's become.
 

Trigger

Member
tl:dr: Azealia Banks and Taylor Swift stans both use material from 2012 as the shining example of their fave's talent. One artist's material is from her debut EP, and she has released (negligible amounts of) music since then. The other artist's material is from her fourth studio album after six years in the music industry, and she hasn't released music since then. Hmm.

Bless. I hate when people come for the Lord.
 
Blah blah blah I don't agree with someone else's opinion and therefore they must be delusional or insane because I cannot fathom the concept of someone having an opinion that is not my own. Get over it, it's not that serious. Music affects people differently and you giving me snobbish teas is just as laughable and immature as all those assholes in OT who make blanket statements about pop music and the people who listen to them. And I KNOW you hate that too.

As I said, be better, or at least share your opinion in a way that isn't ass-first, and I'll be happy to indulge more on why my opinion happens to be so, but then again I don't think you'd care either way.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Blah blah blah I don't agree with someone else's opinion and therefore they must be delusional or insane because I cannot fathom the concept of someone having an opinion that is not my own. Get over it, it's not that serious. Music affects people differently and you giving me snobbish teas is just as laughable and immature as all those assholes in OT who make blanket statements about pop music and the people who listen to them. And I KNOW you hate that too.

As I said, be better, or at least share your opinion in a way that isn't ass-first, and I'll be happy to indulge more on why my opinion happens to be so, but then again I don't think you'd care either way.

I'm not giving you snobbish teas. I'm serving you factually accurate jasmine chai.
 

Vitanimus

Member
jbkoO0qjcrdTtt.png


Hey girl in the strobing light
What your mama never told you
Is love hurts when you do it right
You can cry when you get older
Young boy by the traffic light
What your daddy never told you
Is love hurts when you do it right
You can cry when you get older

Hold up a second, now I got something on my dirty mind
I start out with good intentions but mess it up like all the time
I try to keep up appearance but always end up way out of line
I need some kind of miracle, cause I lost all my faith in science
So I put my faith in me

She said: "There just must be more to life than this"
He said: "Careful, cause you might just get your wish"


iZOWPUyysztyo.gif
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Sorry, in the future I'll be sure to only criticise your faves if I can back it up with a fully referenced and peer reviewed academic paper on the matter.

ibqPzfqRS1cCA2.gif
 
I would never expect that from you, but I'm sure there's a happy middle between prefacing your disagreement with some kind of point, and throwing lazy blanket statements about me like I'm part of some quarantined demographic. Or do the thing you said you were going to do and lay off. I LIVE for shade but not when it's sloppy.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Let me address some points here.

While I do think that individual taste has a bearing on the discussion, I don't think resorting to 'well that's just like, your opinion, man' is conducive to good discussion. What I take issue with on people not liking pop isn't that I think they just have bad opinions, it's that I think they're wrong about the quality, value, and artistry of pop music.

So I'm not going to engage with a person critically who takes the view that ultimately we might as well just be talking about whether red or blue is a better colour or whether apples or bananas are the best fruits. Why would I? That person doesn't see any value to what I'm saying beyond an expression of what I merely happen to prefer. I might as well be doing interpretive dance or writing poetry.

Maybe what you might want to say is that Applause is your favourite Gaga video. That's a different matter and I'd never drag anybody for having a favourite video because of what it means to you, or you particularly like the themes, or whatever. But I think there's a big distinction between something that's your favourite and the best and worst. And I've said this before but I think that stans are probably the least qualified people in the world to accurately judge and differentiate between their favourite and the best works of their faves.

That's why I think it's delusional to claim that Applause is her best music video rather than your favourite. Because it's not just you sharing your opinions, like you telling us your favourite flavour ice cream, it's you making somewhat absurd claims about the level of artistry of the videos. And I take it that any casual observer can see that the quality of the Applause video lags well behind something like Bad Romance or Poker Face; which is at least part of the reason why Bad Romance and Poker Face are touchstone of 21st century pop culture whereas Applause is already forgotten by virtually everybody.

What's stupid here is that I don't even strongly dislike the Applause video. It's not Marry The Night quality trash, and it's better than anything she's done since. But comparing it to a cultural icon like her earlier works is frankly ridiculous, and demeans the quality of those works by comparison.
 

Aguila

#ICONIC
I'm starting to accept the new trinity of pop, Taylor, Rihanna, and Katy.

They seem to always have their shit together in terms of how and when they release music/videos/albums. The other girls simply can't do it anymore.
pXXlfeg.gif
 

Nemesis_

Member
I'm starting to accept the new trinity of pop, Taylor, Rihanna, and Katy.

They seem to always have their shit together in terms of how and when they release music/videos/albums. The other girls simply can't do it anymore.
pXXlfeg.gif

I don't know, Unapologetic was a pretty huge clusterfuck with how she planned shit out and how late some stuff hit. Using your criteria, I'd probably swap Rih out with Madonna, or at least pre MDNA Madonna.

Although I just realised Madonna's situation O described is the same as Rihs situation that I described fndnsnsjjfjdjd so maybe once they both put out albums we will see if either of them still have it.

But one again, this is solely using your criteria you just mentioned. D
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I don't know, Unapologetic was a pretty huge clusterfuck with how she planned shit out and how late some stuff hit. Using your criteria, I'd probably swap Rih out with Madonna, or at least pre MDNA Madonna.

Yes, Unapologetic was a bit of a mess.

I'd say Bey based on the transcendent quality of her recent output but eh.
 
Rihanna's eras are clean and organized until the second single. Then they just start throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it will stick. And often that works out for them.
 
Let me address some points here.

While I do think that individual taste has a bearing on the discussion, I don't think resorting to 'well that's just like, your opinion, man' is conducive to good discussion. What I take issue with on people not liking pop isn't that I think they just have bad opinions, it's that I think they're wrong about the quality, value, and artistry of pop music.

So I'm not going to engage with a person critically who takes the view that ultimately we might as well just be talking about whether red or blue is a better colour or whether apples or bananas are the best fruits. Why would I? That person doesn't see any value to what I'm saying beyond an expression of what I merely happen to prefer. I might as well be doing interpretive dance or writing poetry.

Maybe what you might want to say is that Applause is your favourite Gaga video. That's a different matter and I'd never drag anybody for having a favourite video because of what it means to you, or you particularly like the themes, or whatever. But I think there's a big distinction between something that's your favourite and the best and worst. And I've said this before but I think that stans are probably the least qualified people in the world to accurately judge and differentiate between their favourite and the best works of their faves.

That's why I think it's delusional to claim that Applause is her best music video rather than your favourite. Because it's not just you sharing your opinions, like you telling us your favourite flavour ice cream, it's you making somewhat absurd claims about the level of artistry of the videos. And I take it that any casual observer can see that the quality of the Applause video lags well behind something like Bad Romance or Poker Face; which is at least part of the reason why Bad Romance and Poker Face are touchstone of 21st century pop culture whereas Applause is already forgotten by virtually everybody.

What's stupid here is that I don't even strongly dislike the Applause video. It's not Marry The Night quality trash, and it's better than anything she's done since. But comparing it to a cultural icon like her earlier works is frankly ridiculous, and demeans the quality of those works by comparison.

I shouldn't have to be the one to tell you that objectivity, when it comes to forming an opinion and arguing for it, is not real. It doesn't exist. You're mistaking staunch subjectivity for some kind of absolute truth. There is no bar on what makes something "better" than anything else, because everyone uses different barometers. The common characteristic we all share, however, is the ability to perceive and prefer. When I say something is "the best," I am not making some all-knowing claim that cannot be disputed. It's my opinion that it's the best. Just like people here saying that there's a pop trinity. Is that an absolute truth? No, because the post is already prefaced with the subtext that everything we say is based on perception and preference.

I love the Applause video. I love that it's series of static imagery, and that it isn't a narrative with a start and a finish. Too many videos rely on that archetype, including most of hers. It's like a slideshow of all the characteristics of the artist that I love and relate to: alternating between high and low brow, her humor, her love of theater and trying on new hats. It's a stimulus overload and it's coupled well with the message of the song, which is that entertainment is meant to delight and ilicit a response from an audience. I find a lot of heart in that. But I know that that's not what a lot of people perceive as contingent on quality or a positive preference, because we all have contexts running in our heads while we watch or listen to things and so our brains are wired and manipulated uniquely because of it.

It seems that yours is wired to defend the very popular Gaga videos mostly because they're popular, even though the "quality" (as you call it) of those videos have particularly been heightened by the context you're using to evaluate them. They came out at the height of her popularity when her imagery and music was still shocking to people, and whose songs were played in heavy rotation on radio. I wouldn't use the word "delusion" to describe your preference for those videos based mostly on Youtube views and influence (since you call them "touchstones of pop culture"), things that shouldn't affect your idea of what makes something "high quality" in the technical sense. In turn, I'd ask that you don't use the word "delusion" to describe my preference for a video like Applause based on the fact that it appeals to my own sensibilities.
 
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