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#popMAFIA | So don’t let this be our final song

cabot

Member
So was your mum m8

giphy.gif


(don't drink alcohol so will get a pint of coke and some pork scratchings!)

an Irishman who doesn't drink?

 

acohrs

Member
Alright, I was hoping to be here for the start of the day, but alas, I was at work.

I would love to say that I had a grand idea for staying silent, but, that was just being busy with real life stuff. This last day phase, and today IRL, fell on the worst possible time, my college exam week. Still, I'm committed to playing, and have caught up during this past night.

I think the best case for why I'm not scum is the simple fact that I'm not dead yet. Scum would be eager to prolong my life as much as possible, I've been the center of a lot of discussion, discussion that generally goes in the circle of "where is he, he should post more, inactivity isn't enough to lynch, well then where is he". This is great for any scum player of course as they can just keep peddling the same 'content' over and over, seem impartial in a way in which both scum and town would react, and move on with their plans.

So, in looking at who to lynch today, I feel the people who have stuck with voting on me, but given little real though are the best to lynch. In analyzing the myriad of choices who have voted for me, achors stuck out. Specifically for this more recent post:



First part of the post is the attempt to say that they were right about me and that lynching CB was a mistake. To me, it's an attempt to gain just the tiniest bit of town cred along the lines of achors not making the mistake that the majority of town did. Next comes the pointer back to me as a source of suspicion, after all, we need to talk about me for most of the day today until I'm suddenly saved by a vote swing. The last part of the post is the typical "where is he, he should post more". I'm sure that you're just going to say you were asking fair questions, but that's what a good scum player does. Ask innocuous questions that won't get yourself into trouble while still looking good.

Vote: acohrs

Again, I apologize for my absence, I hadn't foreseen that the game would land right in my exam week the way it did. Sorry cabot, and the rest of you. (well, not you scum players).

A couple of things, I was for lynching Haly on Day 2, before the full Mason reveal. So at least I was consistent.

Also, if you want the honest truth about that vote on Haly, I missed a key detail and then never came back to the thread. In my hustle and bustle just trying to get one post in, I missed the Mason claim and so I was just trying to continue on my read from Day 2. Not a good thing by any means, but it was the reason I voted the way I did.



I dunno, seems like a unique way to buy some time. Perhaps neutral poisoner who has to poison two or three targets?

Rereading posts and there's something odd here in Flame's response. They go from being one of the most suspicious players one second to completely being trusted the next. And all we have to go on is that they were 'caught up in real life' and 'missed a key detail'. There is no way to prove that any of this is true, just their word. What if, not saying it's true, Flame is lying and has suddenly turned around all suspicion of themselves? Like it's a complete 180 from yesterday. Maybe there's an unwritten rule that I'm missing, but this is very surprising now that we're all saying he's no longer scum on his own word. Granted this is all based on trust and our words, but hmmmm
 

Ty4on

Member
Rereading posts and there's something odd here in Flame's response. They go from being one of the most suspicious players one second to completely being trusted the next. And all we have to go on is that they were 'caught up in real life' and 'missed a key detail'. There is no way to prove that any of this is true, just their word. What if, not saying it's true, Flame is lying and has suddenly turned around all suspicion of themselves? Like it's a complete 180 from yesterday. Maybe there's an unwritten rule that I'm missing, but this is very surprising now that we're all saying he's no longer scum on his own word. Granted this is all based on trust and our words, but hmmmm

If you had a gun with three bullets who would you shoot and in what order?
 

Ty4on

Member
I don't have any pop. Here, have some Magic

[...]
Burb's net attack is on Bronx. This is confusing, because... I mean, Bronx just reads town, I'm going to be blunt. He might be scum, but to me, he certainly isn't showing the tells for it[...]
I like this comment, it feels townie.

[...]Now: I don't really ask people for their read of me except in quite unusual situations. It's just not that useful for me. Self-perception, I think, is quite a tricky skill in mafia - especially for town. i don't second guess my actions as town, because second-guessing yourself is what makes you scum. I just assume I come across as town to everyone. If I don't? Their loss. And I don't find out much useful by knowing they think I'm scum (again, a few edge cases aside). In my experience, asking what people think of you is only really done by a) very new players, b) scum. Now CCS fits in a) as much as they could b), so giving a pass here, but I really flagged this up.
[...]

I'm kinda opposite on this. As scum I generally don't want to ask people for their read of me because I'm scared they'll say I look scummy and want them to keep that for themselves. Just in general it feels bad to have the spotlight on yourself and asking it out in the blue feels scummy.
Prepare for future scum me to constantly ask for reads of myself :p

As town though I think it can be useful. I know I'm town and I'm reasonable aware of what I have done so I feel in a better position to judge their read. It could easily be something that feels much more useful than it really is, I've just found as scum that my reaction to someone scum reading me or my mates is to sort of ignore them. I struggle to make a read of them because my mind is preoccupied with what to do with them. As town it makes me aggressive, "how dare they scum read someone as townie as me".

A second thing is also to judge how genuine someone's reads are. If someone is throwing shade at me are they just trying to get people suspicious of me or just suspicious of me themselves. I feel like Sawneeks and acohrs (and maybe Burb) fall into the former category. They're both going "I don't know about this Ty4on", but don't seem that suspicious of me below the surface. Their attack vector is also a bit weird, attacking me for the turbo, but not quite articulating why.
It's a hard thing to read tho because townies' reads are usually messy and complex, especially of a messy player like me (unless they're good at reading my
obvious
scumtells :p). It feels like asking for clarification helps to see if there's depth and complexity to a vague read.
 

acohrs

Member
I like attention

You've said you're suspicious of me

Yes but I'm more suspicious of flame and burbeting. Would want to see how they flipped first before I would take my metaphorical last shot.

Just had team nicest pork ramen, mmmm.
 
Rereading posts and there's something odd here in Flame's response. They go from being one of the most suspicious players one second to completely being trusted the next. And all we have to go on is that they were 'caught up in real life' and 'missed a key detail'. There is no way to prove that any of this is true, just their word. What if, not saying it's true, Flame is lying and has suddenly turned around all suspicion of themselves? Like it's a complete 180 from yesterday. Maybe there's an unwritten rule that I'm missing, but this is very surprising now that we're all saying he's no longer scum on his own word. Granted this is all based on trust and our words, but hmmmm

I think we're seeing very experienced scum coming out and throwing belief behind Flame_AC as a townie…and it's working perfectly. Flame continually voted for Haly for 2 days in a row, despite Haly and Coppa claiming masons mid-day 2. My participation hasn't been as much as I'd like but I still saw Haly and Coppa as aligned together for town. It's too simple to say "I hadn't been paying attention" and then go completely 180 and post more in the past 48 hours than the past week. Looking at the current vote count tool, we're missing 3 votes: Sawneeks (she pulled her vote back from Flame), CCS, and Lord of Castermere. Who would you choose to lynch? Lord of Castermere has been going pretty hard for Haly for the past couple of days, made a case against Flame_AC once Haly was eliminated, but chose CornBurrito because they were the quieter one. I'd assume LoC's vote would go Flame_AC now, but I'm curious to see where he stands.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Can't post much/long posts due to Theater shenanigans. Few notes to make:

- LoC claiming to have been a 1-shot vigilante makes sense, maybe? Don't see a reason to doubt it.

- I'm not sure what to make of that defensive reaction CCS had on me being suspicious of Sawneeks and acohrs.
 

Ty4on

Member
Lord of Castermere has been going pretty hard for Haly for the past couple of days, made a case against Flame_AC once Haly was eliminated, but chose CornBurrito because they were the quieter one. I'd assume LoC's vote would go Flame_AC now, but I'm curious to see where he stands.
The phrasing here is funny (Haly wasn't dead when Corn was lynched).

#nitpicking
 
The phrasing here is funny (Haly wasn't dead when Corn was lynched).

#nitpicking

You're right, I just saw the post in which LoC dropped his claim for Haly after they revealed themselves to be mason. The other parts stand: LoC was between Flame_AC and CB yesterday, and for some reason CCS changed their vote from Flame (after gunning for him for the days prior) to CB. They both called out Flame_AC but voted otherwise at the end of the day.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
If I was scum, I'd be pretty happy bussing right now. There's probably 3 scum to 7 town at this point. That's pretty good odds, as you'd expect after we missed scum so many days running and they got a double kill. I'd go so far to say that the game narrowly favours scum at this point; if I was a gambling man I'd put a slight flutter on mafia. If we lynched a scum today, they'd still end up tomorrow at 2:6, which is... pretty even, and if that lynch caused us to trust the wrong people (the whole point of a bus) that's still a worthwhile trade. So I wouldn't rule someone out from being scum/declare they are scum because someone else you think is scum voted for them/didn't vote for them. And that's not even considering the idea that you're overthinking it - getting one scum right is achievement enough, getting two right is improbable.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
sawneeks, why don't you have an active vote?
 

Ty4on

Member
If I was scum, I'd be pretty happy bussing right now. There's probably 3 scum to 7 town at this point. That's pretty good odds, as you'd expect after we missed scum so many days running and they got a double kill. I'd go so far to say that the game narrowly favours scum at this point; if I was a gambling man I'd put a slight flutter on mafia. If we lynched a scum today, they'd still end up tomorrow at 2:6, which is... pretty even, and if that lynch caused us to trust the wrong people (the whole point of a bus) that's still a worthwhile trade. So I wouldn't rule someone out from being scum/declare they are scum because someone else you think is scum voted for them/didn't vote for them. And that's not even considering the idea that you're overthinking it - getting one scum right is achievement enough, getting two right is improbable.
I think I've already posted it, but I've been playing around with the idea that Saw is bussing Flame. Yeah yeah, overconfident, but Saw was a major cause yesterday for flipping the lynch from Flame towards Corn even though she repeatedly said she didn't mind who was lynched. Today however she seems very suspicious of Flame and kinda weirdly suspicious of those who voted for Flame.

Scum also has a tendency of going "Let's kill X to make Y suspicious". If they killed and poisoned I think it was probably planned in advance (getting both just seems obvious), but maybe they thought the other way. "Let's use our NK of Haly to put pressure on Ty4on."

---------------
I like hypotheticals. Let's say Saw flipped scum, are there any connections you see Crab that would make you town or scum read anyone? The D1 lynch sticks out to me because they could be trying to avoid another scum on the cutting board, but looking at Pop I might be over-thinking that.
Similarly those that sheep Saw (especially D2 when she wasn't in any danger). Scum tends in my experience to be more wary of town reading scum mates because they're biased and cautious.
 

Ty4on

Member
You're right, I just saw the post in which LoC dropped his claim for Haly after they revealed themselves to be mason. The other parts stand: LoC was between Flame_AC and CB yesterday, and for some reason CCS changed their vote from Flame (after gunning for him for the days prior) to CB. They both called out Flame_AC but voted otherwise at the end of the day.
Interesting, this wasn't the reply I was expecting. I was thinking more like "I meant Haly was eliminated from the lynch pool when he claimed". I'll have to look back to see when Kryptik was active.

Work might get a bit more busy now.
 

Flame_AC

Member
Rereading posts and there's something odd here in Flame's response. They go from being one of the most suspicious players one second to completely being trusted the next. And all we have to go on is that they were 'caught up in real life' and 'missed a key detail'. There is no way to prove that any of this is true, just their word. What if, not saying it's true, Flame is lying and has suddenly turned around all suspicion of themselves? Like it's a complete 180 from yesterday. Maybe there's an unwritten rule that I'm missing, but this is very surprising now that we're all saying he's no longer scum on his own word. Granted this is all based on trust and our words, but hmmmm

You're just gonna have to believe that I missed those details, look at the body of what I've done when I've been around and tell me if I still seem like a scum player. What would you say makes me the likeliest to be scum, barring inactivity/lying low as a reason?

If we're gonna run with the idea that Sawneeks is a scum, and that I am potentially her partner, as has been suggested rather recently. I'd ask you to look at it realistically, what can I really bring to the scum team, a good PR? Unless my role was just so powerful, it doesn't make sense for her to try and flip the vote off of me.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I like hypotheticals. Let's say Saw flipped scum, are there any connections you see Crab that would make you town or scum read anyone? The D1 lynch sticks out to me because they could be trying to avoid another scum on the cutting board, but looking at Pop I might be over-thinking that.

Waste of time. If we lynch Sawneeks and she flips scum, then we have all of tomorrow to work out what that means for the game. I'm not going to waste analyzing second-stage hypotheticals like that, it would just cloud my thinking now.

Also, game activity is dying again a little.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Sorry CB. I can understand voting for Flame ac today. It definitely can look like a switch vote, but tbh thats why I suggested CB. I still think scum was on Fac yesyetday. Sadly I think we jumped from town to town.

I'll apologize in advance, because you're gonna hate this. I lied. I am a one shot vigilante. I tried to bluff a power or two on me, or a kill to come my way instead of a power role. I'm still here though, which isn't good. I acknowledge that this causes more issues, then I tried to solve. I'm going to read over the list today, look at posts, and make a vote. If Coppanova was setup to die the same die as Haly, and it wasn't just coincidence, I think we are dealing with a competent scum.

Can you explain to me what you thought claiming your shot on Haly missed would accomplish? Did you want us all to rally and vote for him? Or ??

Rereading posts and there's something odd here in Flame's response. They go from being one of the most suspicious players one second to completely being trusted the next. And all we have to go on is that they were 'caught up in real life' and 'missed a key detail'. There is no way to prove that any of this is true, just their word. What if, not saying it's true, Flame is lying and has suddenly turned around all suspicion of themselves? Like it's a complete 180 from yesterday. Maybe there's an unwritten rule that I'm missing, but this is very surprising now that we're all saying he's no longer scum on his own word. Granted this is all based on trust and our words, but hmmmm

I'm shocked nobody has said it yet but it's sort of an unwritten rule the you don't lie about real life excuses. If you weren't here, you weren't here, that's it. :x

A second thing is also to judge how genuine someone's reads are. If someone is throwing shade at me are they just trying to get people suspicious of me or just suspicious of me themselves. I feel like Sawneeks and acohrs (and maybe Burb) fall into the former category. They're both going "I don't know about this Ty4on", but don't seem that suspicious of me below the surface. Their attack vector is also a bit weird, attacking me for the turbo, but not quite articulating why.

I'm not sure what I haven't been clear about when it comes to your votes the last Day Phase?

Looking at the current vote count tool, we're missing 3 votes: Sawneeks (she pulled her vote back from Flame), CCS, and Lord of Castermere. Who would you choose to lynch? Lord of Castermere has been going pretty hard for Haly for the past couple of days, made a case against Flame_AC once Haly was eliminated, but chose CornBurrito because they were the quieter one. I'd assume LoC's vote would go Flame_AC now, but I'm curious to see where he stands.

I'm almost done with my re-read but I'm considering a couple options.

Flame I'm still considering due to his connection to Ty and CCS ( and by small extension, LoC ) because his alignment would help me get better reads on those 3. If I'm understanding CCS correctly then he is fine, that just leaves Ty and LoC as the question marks. I don't like Ty's vote flipping, I've said this before, and I can see it being an attempt to save Scum!Flame last minute. However, this all really depends on Flame's alignment because if Flame is Scum I believe Ty is as well but if Flame is Town I don't see why Scum would throw themselves into the light like that. I also don't like how Ty is continuing to downplay his votes and keeps saying 'well if Flame is Scum/Town then Saw is totally Scum!' because that smells like setting up a chain lynch to me no matter which way the coin falls. LoC went for Corn > Flame for, imo, an empty reason and I could see him subtly trying to move away from his scum buddy getting lynched.

I'm considering you as well, Krpytik. You were very defensive on Day 1 and I brushed that off as 'new player jitters' but you've been able to blend yourself into the game and have just gone under most people's radars. I'm still catching up but at the moment I feel like you have a good chance of being coasting Scum. You're here and saying things ( mostly just voting and leaving ) but the amount of scum hunting you're doing is relatively low.

LoC. He and Bronx were two people I noticed had just quietly slipped into my blind spot and were just sitting there not doing much of anything. However, Bronx I still feel relatively good about him due to how he reacted to QB on Day 1 when nobody else really seemed to do anything. If he had been Scum it would have been easy for him to just let QB's slip fade away but he instead kept at it and that feels Town to me. LoC on the other hand has gotten off because of his Vig claim...that he apparently lied about...and we have no way to prove. He doesn't vote for QB on Day 1 and instead sticks on Haly ( hoping for the votes to move? ), suddenly comes out Day 2 and doubles down on Haly by claiming his Vig shot missed and hopes to what? Rally us all to vote out Haly? Many of us noted at the time that his timing made no sense to claim, if your Vig shot misses then how does that mean Scum is involved? But, if you're willing to travel down the theory train with me, maybe that's the point? Make such a ridiculous claim that can't be proved that Scum would never do such a thing and use that to ride out the next few Days. And it worked, didn't it? Hardly any of us have paid much attention to LoC after his claim, giving him the pass because a Scum claim that crazy is 'too ridiculous to be true'. I also just got to the point where he votes for Corn over Flame, citing it's because he feels 'Corn is faking his inactivity and Flame isn't', whatever that means.

And lastly, Burb. His activity is weird and all over the place, going from being semi-active to just coasting on Day 2/3 and now he's back and posting this Day Phase. I agree with Crab that in his early activity he often just sits in the middle of topics before making a choice and doesn't push things very far. He just seems content to be here but not really be here, if that makes sense. His activity lately is better, but so is the game's activity as a whole, so I'm wondering if it's just the apathy that was hitting everyone early on. I'm still very unsure however and I can't say I really trust Burb and would prefer to keep a close eye on him.

sawneeks, why don't you have an active vote?

I removed my vote from Flame because he came back and explained why he wasn't around, his Haly vote(s), and gave some thoughts on the game. I'm not feeling as confident about him being Scum as I did before and since he is back and posting I decided the vote wasn't needed. I'm just not sure who else to vote for so that's why I unvoted instead of just moving it elsewhere.

I'm about halfway done with my re-read ( i'm on page 11 ) so I want to get through that and get my thoughts in order before I get another vote down.

I think I've already posted it, but I've been playing around with the idea that Saw is bussing Flame. Yeah yeah, overconfident, but Saw was a major cause yesterday for flipping the lynch from Flame towards Corn even though she repeatedly said she didn't mind who was lynched. Today however she seems very suspicious of Flame and kinda weirdly suspicious of those who voted for Flame.

???

How was I a major cause for flipping the votes from Flame to Corn?

You're just gonna have to believe that I missed those details, look at the body of what I've done when I've been around and tell me if I still seem like a scum player. What would you say makes me the likeliest to be scum, barring inactivity/lying low as a reason?

If we're gonna run with the idea that Sawneeks is a scum, and that I am potentially her partner, as has been suggested rather recently. I'd ask you to look at it realistically, what can I really bring to the scum team, a good PR? Unless my role was just so powerful, it doesn't make sense for her to try and flip the vote off of me.

Okay, seriously. Where is this whole 'Saw tried to prevent Flame's lynch!' narrative coming from?? I'm going to put it in my next post because this one is getting quite lengthy but this isn't making any sense and I don't like how it's being pushed by both Ty AND Flame.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
So I went back and tried to figure out where Ty/Flame are getting this whole 'I'm trying to push people away from Flame!' narrative and I'm not seeing it. In fact, I'm seeing Ty, CCS, and Crab being the three who end up pushing Corn over Flame. I'll show you.

We'll start here with my first part of the analysis involving Corn:

Whose Pop Is It Anyway? feat. Corn and Flame

At that time the vote count looked like this.

5 Flame - 2 Corn

not (1)
coppanuva 476
cornburrito 483 (509)

bronx-man (1)
sawneeks 480

flame_ac (5)
haly 493
kryptikjoker 496
ccs 497
acohrs 499
cornburrito 509

haly (1)
flame_ac 500

cornburrito (1)
lord of castamere 505
( There wasn't an updated vote count between this and when Burb votes, my analysis, and Coppa's vote. You can find Burb's vote Here which took place after this vote count but before my post. )


Day 3 ends:
gra_1480975200.png


7 votes for majority.

Shortly after my post we get Coppa's vote for Corn here:

Sorry for not contributing too much this past part of the phase. Been super busy with work stuff, I'm going to throw down a vote for right now, and may move it later. I really wish Flame had addressed some of my concerns, and I will vote for him if I have to prevent a tie, but for right now I want these numbers closer so we can see how everyone is leaning...

Vote: Cornburrito

Will read anyone's final arguments and may adjust my vote accordingly.

Votes are now:

5 Flame - 3 Corn

VOTE TALLY:

Ty4on (0)
coppanuva 476 (517)
cornburrito 483 (509)

bronx-man (0)
sawneeks 480 (512)

flame_ac (5)
haly 493
kryptikjoker 496
ccs 497
acohrs 499
cornburrito 509

haly (1)
flame_ac 500

cornburrito (3)
lord of castamere 505
burbeting 521
coppanuva 584

crab (1)
ty4on 562

burbeting (1)
crab 589

Day 3 ends:
gra_1480975200.png


7 votes for majority.

And then we get Bronx going for Flame:

VOTE: Flame_AC

I spent all day going back and forth over this, but Flame looks the most suspicious to me right now. They were already prodded into making one post, and they still didn't explain why the hell they voted for a confirmed town mason. Flame needs to give answers NOW.

Bring the votes to

6 Flame - 3 Corn

Chronicles of Flame or something idk

tl;dr

Vote: CornBurrito

Votes are now

6 Flame - 4 Corn

If I was so instrumental in keeping Flame alive like Ty is suggesting shouldn't my vote have been the one got Corn really in the running and pushed Flame out?

It isn't, but guess which one gets really close:

Vote: CornBurrito

VOTE TALLY:

ty4on (0)
coppanuva 476 (517)
cornburrito 483 (509)

bronx-man (0)
sawneeks 480 (512)

flame_ac (6)
haly 493
kryptikjoker 496
ccs 497
acohrs 499
cornburrito 509
bronx-man 596

haly (1)
flame_ac 500

cornburrito (5)
lord of castamere 505
burbeting 521
coppanuva 584
sawneeks 604
ty4on 617

crab (0)
ty4on 562 (602)

burbeting (1)
crab 589
ty4on 602 (617)



Day 3 ends:
gra_1480975200.png


7 votes for majority.

Flame is 6 - Corn is 5.

That's 1 away from a tie vote and Ty never gave his reasons for voting for Corn until after the Day Phase ended.

At present rates, I think Flame will be replaced before long, and I don't want us to blow our load on that one when it will most likely be a nothingburger. My Burb vote isn't catching fire (which is probably suspiscious in and of itself... hint, hint), so I'm going to

VOTE: CornBurrito

to force a tie and make someone on Flame switch to Corn, 'cause I'm a stubborn motherfucker.

That's a tie. 6 - 6.

Never explained why he wanted a tie either even though I asked him earlier.

That'd be a turbo

VOTE: Crab

Ty unvotes. Hoping to cause more confusion? Hopes somebody moves because of the massive amount of moving votes? Well, it works, because CCS moves his vote below.

It's now 6 Flame - 5 Corn

VOTE: CornBurrito

WILDCARD MOTHERFUCKERS

CCS comes in and votes for Corn, brings it back to a tie.

I don't like this either since he very consistently went for Flame and then suddenly flipped last second to Corn. However, considering what he has said this Day Phase so far, I think he is fine and simply got cold feet as he mentioned in his first post.

I'm in control of this lynch now :p

VOTE: CornBurrito

Day End and the Majority vote. Flame doesn't get lynched despite having the lead for nearly the entire Day Phase and some vote swapping shenanigans towards the end of the Day that push him out of harms way. Ty has the option to vote for Flame but opts to go back to Corn instead despite having never saying anything about him for that Day Phase so we have no reference of why he did that in-the-moment.

Couple that with how Ty continues to try and down play what he did above and the pushing for how 'well if Flame flips Scum/Town then Saw is Scum' argument where he can come back with 'I told you so' to save himself the next Day Phase, I feel that Ty is setting the roadwork so when Flame flips Scum it won't flip negatively on him.

Vote: Flame_AC

Why Flame over Ty? Flame's alignment gets me a clearer view of not only Ty but LoC as well. Lynching Ty only gets me a view of Flame, leaving LoC still in the dark, and I'd rather go for more information than less. I'm also fairly confident that Ty and Flame are working together and that Flame has some PR they were trying to save the last Day Phase.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Hold up

If anyone is instrumental to keeping Flame alive, wouldn't it be Ty?

I mean I flat-out told him CB was most likely town, and he still chose him over someone who had barely posted in a week.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Hold up

If anyone is instrumental to keeping Flame alive, wouldn't it be Ty?

I mean I flat-out told him CB was most likely town, and he still chose him over someone who had barely posted in a week.

That's what I'm saying! So when Ty brought that up as a point I paused, he had made side comments here and there trying to downplay everything but I didn't think a whole lot about it until he said that. And now with Flame coming in and saying the same thing I think they are working together and are trying to push that line of thinking to get me in the spot light instead of Ty when Flame flips.
 
That's what I'm saying! So when Ty brought that up as a point I paused, he had made side comments here and there trying to downplay everything but I didn't think a whole lot about it until he said that. And now with Flame coming in and saying the same thing I think they are working together and are trying to push that line of thinking to get me in the spot light instead of Ty when Flame flips.

I always thought it quite strong that Ty just joined us and is defending Flame. And his voting today has been erratic, first voting for CCS, then acohrs, and now Sawneeks. In terms of CCS and Sawneeks, after day 1, I've felt they've been contributing more to town than throwing confusion around. Ty's play today in strongly defending Flame but not giving decent arguments against CCS or Sawneeks.
 
CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Flame_AC (4)
Sawneeks .688 .788
Bronx-Man .700
kryptikjoker .722
acohrs .817
Sawneeks .829

Burbeting (2)
Crab .692
CCS .799

kryptikjoker (1)
Burbeting .770

acohrs (1)
Flame_AC .711
Ty4on .724 .750

Sawneeks (1)
Ty4on .750

Ty4on (0)
acohrs .746 .817

CCS (0)
Ty4on .693 .697


No active vote for Day 4:
Lord of Castamere



Day 4 ends:
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Automated vote tally here

6 votes for majority
 

Ty4on

Member
Waste of time. If we lynch Sawneeks and she flips scum, then we have all of tomorrow to work out what that means for the game. I'm not going to waste analyzing second-stage hypotheticals like that, it would just cloud my thinking now.

Also, game activity is dying again a little.
If you're town you might be dead tomorrow. And there is no such thing as enough time to analyze, especially with a game this lethargic.
 

Ty4on

Member
I'm multi posting because i hate cut copy and paste on mobile. Deal with it Crab :p
I'm not sure what I haven't been clear about when it comes to your votes the last Day Phase?
What makes a last minute vote on someone in the lead when there are no votes flying around scummy? I don't get it.

I actually thought it was tied, hence the overdramatic vote, but I don't see that changing much as I should known the vote had Flame been my scum mate :p
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
If you're town you might be dead tomorrow. And there is no such thing as enough time to analyze, especially with a game this lethargic.

If I'm dead tomorrow that's yet more informational context for you to talk about, that would probably change what I would say (were it not for the fact I would be dead). Again, I don't really do second-stage hypotheticals.

What I will say is: I do think Flame_AC is fairly obviously town. Like, let's be honest here most players are fundamentally more motivated by playing scum than town. One the most common stories of games is townies (especially vanilla) getting bored early, because they can't form the closeknit links scum have in their chat and generally have less to do. Scum: mostly pay attention, and while they often have low activity, they rarely do it to the point of non-participation. Flame_AC, to me, reads absolutely classic: bored townie. I think almost no scum would vote Haly in the context of him having been cleared as a Mason with tons of stuff on it. I think a more realistic picture is that Flame simply didn't notice because Flame isn't following the game very closely because Flame is town and inexperienced and probably isn't a PR and isn't trusted and so has very little entry to engage with.

I also think this is pretty clear to anyone who has been playing a while and knows how these things work - anyone who's played at least 3 games has probably seen this pattern play out time and time again. And what happens is scum *love* these people, because they can really easily convince people that bored townies are scum. So they leave them alive, and then they try to get them lynched later in the game or to divert from an alternate scum wagon. And honestly, this is, at least for me, really starting to have the alarm bells ring about Sawneeks. She's a good player, an experienced player, and I struggle to believe she reads Flame_AC as scum and not just bored town.

So, right now, my scum reads are beginning to coalesce around Sawneeks and Burbeting. I'd rather lynch Burbeting, because I'm more confident on that one, but I would ideally like our lynch to be in those two. I very much do not want it to be on Flame_AC.
 

Ty4on

Member
So, right now, my scum reads are beginning to coalesce around Sawneeks and Burbeting. I'd rather lynch Burbeting, because I'm more confident on that one, but I would ideally like our lynch to be in those two. I very much do not want it to be on Flame_AC.

Do you think it's likely both are scum?

I kinda wanna lynch Flame for the way Saw is pushing it. Flame is not a new player and has played scum before and I could see low activity being kinda NAI. He's just bored.
Low activity when you're on the cutting board is a bit odd, but he might have felt like anything he said would make it worse.
 

Ty4on

Member
It isn't, but guess which one gets really close:





Flame is 6 - Corn is 5.

That's 1 away from a tie vote and Ty never gave his reasons for voting for Corn until after the Day Phase ended.

Who do you think town!Ty4on would vote for at this point in time?
 

Flame_AC

Member
Crab's insight is always so interesting to read. I don't like Sawneeks going back on originally unvoting me, now that there's pressure on her she comes back to me. The second part of Crab's post is something all of y'all should take not of. Scum can play my inactivity into a boon for them, taking me out isn't going to net you anything. After all, the most anyone's ever really said about me is inactive, not enough to inform reads for the next day.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Do you think it's likely both are scum?

No. I mean, if I picked people at random I would have a 33% chance of getting scum correctly, and if I'm 10 percentage points better than random, which is pretty damn good, I still only have a 43% chance. So the odds I'm right about both is low.

It's not impossible, mind, but I'm not go to start speculating about Sawneeks-Burbeting links until tomorrow at least.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
What makes a last minute vote on someone in the lead when there are no votes flying around scummy? I don't get it.

I actually thought it was tied, hence the overdramatic vote, but I don't see that changing much as I should known the vote had Flame been my scum mate :p

Which vote are you talking about specifically here? Your final, and technically a hammer vote, on Corn? Neither was in the lead at that point considering the vote was tied up so I'm kinda confused which one you're asking about?

What I will say is: I do think Flame_AC is fairly obviously town. Like, let's be honest here most players are fundamentally more motivated by playing scum than town. One the most common stories of games is townies (especially vanilla) getting bored early, because they can't form the closeknit links scum have in their chat and generally have less to do. Scum: mostly pay attention, and while they often have low activity, they rarely do it to the point of non-participation. Flame_AC, to me, reads absolutely classic: bored townie. I think almost no scum would vote Haly in the context of him having been cleared as a Mason with tons of stuff on it. I think a more realistic picture is that Flame simply didn't notice because Flame isn't following the game very closely because Flame is town and inexperienced and probably isn't a PR and isn't trusted and so has very little entry to engage with.

Inactive and inattentive Scum are not an impossibility, Crab. We've had them before in different mafia games and considering how slow this game is I would not dismiss the possibility of that happening here as well.

Honestly, what gets me most about Flame is his connection to Ty.

How do you interpret the Day End votes from the last Day phase? I see it as Ty trying to save Flame; he jumped around, never gave a read on either player during that time despite being there until Day End, and just ended up picking Corn over Flame without any reason. Now he's playing down his own actions and is bringing up false information, both actions that feel like a 'covering my own tracks' sort of action.

Also, you still haven't answered my question as to why you tied up the vote.

Who do you think town!Ty4on would vote for at this point in time?

At that point in time? Vote for who he felt was scummy and would have explained why in the process.

Crab's insight is always so interesting to read. I don't like Sawneeks going back on originally unvoting me, now that there's pressure on her she comes back to me. The second part of Crab's post is something all of y'all should take not of. Scum can play my inactivity into a boon for them, taking me out isn't going to net you anything. After all, the most anyone's ever really said about me is inactive, not enough to inform reads for the next day.

Not every accusation against you is because of your inactivity.

a tl;dr shouldn't even be necessary to be honest. Flame hardly posts anything at all and what he does post makes little sense and has a lack of explanation to them so it's hard to even get his thoughts on a topic. I don't like how he went straight for Kryptik out of the reads list players and didn't try and engage him at all, just decided that he was a worthy lynch candidate and left it at that. It's also been 2 Day phases now that he hasn't explained his Haly vote, instead just drops it and leaves.

You can take out everything about you not being active if you want but that still leaves your vote on Kryptik when you said that the Reads List players were Scummy and avoided QB, your original unexplained Haly vote ( a quick it was for X, Y, and Z would have helped ), and I want to add your current explanation for your Haly vote. I did mention it felt genuine but I still have trouble following the logic of voting for Haly simply because he didn't die. We lynched QB and had the 3 reads list players you already mentioned you didn't like but instead of focusing on them you went for Haly, it doesn't make sense to me why you would do that if you were Town.

And as I already said, your alignment would give me something to work with for the next Day Phase:

Why Flame over Ty? Flame's alignment gets me a clearer view of not only Ty but LoC as well. Lynching Ty only gets me a view of Flame, leaving LoC still in the dark, and I'd rather go for more information than less. I'm also fairly confident that Ty and Flame are working together and that Flame has some PR they were trying to save the last Day Phase.
 

acohrs

Member
Crab's insight is always so interesting to read. I don't like Sawneeks going back on originally unvoting me, now that there's pressure on her she comes back to me. The second part of Crab's post is something all of y'all should take not of. Scum can play my inactivity into a boon for them, taking me out isn't going to net you anything. After all, the most anyone's ever really said about me is inactive, not enough to inform reads for the next day.

What bothers me about you is not your inactivity but passivity. Not noticing haly was mason and voting after probably half a page of posts discussing it worries me a lot. Others have made mistakes and then gone back during that day phase and corrected themselves whereas you just checked out and didn't care how the game went. It tells me that even if you are town, you are unreliable and untrustworthy.
 

acohrs

Member
If I'm dead tomorrow that's yet more informational context for you to talk about, that would probably change what I would say (were it not for the fact I would be dead). Again, I don't really do second-stage hypotheticals.

What I will say is: I do think Flame_AC is fairly obviously town. Like, let's be honest here most players are fundamentally more motivated by playing scum than town. One the most common stories of games is townies (especially vanilla) getting bored early, because they can't form the closeknit links scum have in their chat and generally have less to do. Scum: mostly pay attention, and while they often have low activity, they rarely do it to the point of non-participation. Flame_AC, to me, reads absolutely classic: bored townie. I think almost no scum would vote Haly in the context of him having been cleared as a Mason with tons of stuff on it. I think a more realistic picture is that Flame simply didn't notice because Flame isn't following the game very closely because Flame is town and inexperienced and probably isn't a PR and isn't trusted and so has very little entry to engage with.

I also think this is pretty clear to anyone who has been playing a while and knows how these things work - anyone who's played at least 3 games has probably seen this pattern play out time and time again. And what happens is scum *love* these people, because they can really easily convince people that bored townies are scum. So they leave them alive, and then they try to get them lynched later in the game or to divert from an alternate scum wagon. And honestly, this is, at least for me, really starting to have the alarm bells ring about Sawneeks. She's a good player, an experienced player, and I struggle to believe she reads Flame_AC as scum and not just bored town.

So, right now, my scum reads are beginning to coalesce around Sawneeks and Burbeting. I'd rather lynch Burbeting, because I'm more confident on that one, but I would ideally like our lynch to be in those two. I very much do not want it to be on Flame_AC.

Not sure about saw, all you say is based on your experience that I don't have. For me she's not suspicious.

However, burbeting rings alarm bells for me too. The most suspicious for me is flame but burbeting is someone I wouldn't mind voting for tomorrow.
 

Burbeting

Banned
I might not be around the day end, possible movie night.

Sawneeks' responses seem weirdly aggressive/defensive, but I can't seem to be able to pinpoint any definitive examples. But something about them bothers me, call it a gut feeling.
 

acohrs

Member
I might not be around the day end, possible movie night.

Sawneeks' responses seem weirdly aggressive/defensive, but I can't seem to be able to pinpoint any definitive examples. But something about them bothers me, call it a gut feeling.

I don't know, I'd say you're just trying to divert attention off yourself. Crab and Ty's posts included Saw and you. Saws trying to defend herself and her views, all you're doing is saying excuse me I'm going to be busy so won't post much but before I go instead of defending myself let me throw shade on someone else...
 

Burbeting

Banned
I don't know, I'd say you're just trying to divert attention off yourself. Crab and Ty's posts included Saw and you. Saws trying to defend herself and her views, all you're doing is saying excuse me I'm going to be busy so won't post much but before I go instead of defending myself let me throw shade on someone else...

I'm not lying about my irl, this was something that was planned over a month ago.

I already said that Sawneeks was one of my scum reads before being included together with her.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Kryptik hasn't done anything today that would easend my top-scum reads out of him. He has just... been there, and sat on Flame. Its possible the scum are just standing on the background and waiting for things to go their way.

(I'm double posting because on mobile and got another thought I wanted to post right after posting, Crab :D)
 

acohrs

Member
I'm not lying about my irl, this was something that was planned over a month ago.

I already said that Sawneeks was one of my scum reads before being included together with her.

Not saying you are lying about your IRL activity, just saying that since you have limited time to post before you're busy, you decide to throw shade rather than explain yourself.
 
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