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#popMAFIA | So don’t let this be our final song

Ty4on

Member
*breadcrumbhunting*

If there are three scum remaining, then it would be a MYLO situation. Careless vote-throwing could result in scum turboing.

What do you think of Splinter and LoC?

If you have one handy I wouldn't mind a list of town and scum reads.
 

Ty4on

Member
If I'm dead tomorrow that's yet more informational context for you to talk about, that would probably change what I would say (were it not for the fact I would be dead). Again, I don't really do second-stage hypotheticals.

What I will say is: I do think Flame_AC is fairly obviously town. Like, let's be honest here most players are fundamentally more motivated by playing scum than town. One the most common stories of games is townies (especially vanilla) getting bored early, because they can't form the closeknit links scum have in their chat and generally have less to do. Scum: mostly pay attention, and while they often have low activity, they rarely do it to the point of non-participation. Flame_AC, to me, reads absolutely classic: bored townie. I think almost no scum would vote Haly in the context of him having been cleared as a Mason with tons of stuff on it. I think a more realistic picture is that Flame simply didn't notice because Flame isn't following the game very closely because Flame is town and inexperienced and probably isn't a PR and isn't trusted and so has very little entry to engage with.

I also think this is pretty clear to anyone who has been playing a while and knows how these things work - anyone who's played at least 3 games has probably seen this pattern play out time and time again. And what happens is scum *love* these people, because they can really easily convince people that bored townies are scum. So they leave them alive, and then they try to get them lynched later in the game or to divert from an alternate scum wagon. And honestly, this is, at least for me, really starting to have the alarm bells ring about Sawneeks. She's a good player, an experienced player, and I struggle to believe she reads Flame_AC as scum and not just bored town.

So, right now, my scum reads are beginning to coalesce around Sawneeks and Burbeting. I'd rather lynch Burbeting, because I'm more confident on that one, but I would ideally like our lynch to be in those two. I very much do not want it to be on Flame_AC.

This seems to have been written for this flip and that Flame comment seems to hint strongly that he checked Flame. It's a little weird though that in his big analysis of Quantum's flip here he never mentioned Flame, but he points out specifically here that Flame looks like a vanilla player which hints at the N3 check being used on Flame.

Going with that assumption I don't think Burb got a scum check N1 just because most people would immediately claim that as 1/1 trades favor town over scum.

I'm going to keep looking for whom he might have hit, but if my assumptions are correct it seems whomever he hit N1 might have been dead by the time that post was written so it was pointless to mention them.
 

Burbeting

Banned
*breadcrumbhunting*



What do you think of Splinter and LoC?

If you have one handy I wouldn't mind a list of town and scum reads.

I still think that LoC is town, him claiming as he did really wouldn't make sense D2. *Spliter seemed to be bit unfocused yesterday, but he didn't have too much time D4 after replacing Castamere.

My reads are still mostly the same as they were D4 while putting out my reads (removed the players flipped since then):

TL;DR

Town Read
*Splinter

Town-ish read
Bronx-Man,

Null Read
Ty4on

Scum-ish Read
Sawneeks, Acohrs

Scum Read
CCS, Kryptikjoker

Although I could potentially put Sawneeks from Scum-ish read to Scum read, re-reading D4. Her responses to you and Crab later yesterday felt somewhat aggressive and arrogant, that bothered me.

With Flame flipped, it's now clear that D3 was a town vs town situation. I'd assume scum could use that situation to sit back, and let things implode by themselves, which doesn't really make me feel any better about Kryptik, who has definitely been very mellow, and in the background. CCS's reaction to me being suspicious of Sawneeks and Acohrs was... weird, at least. I considered him being possibly some sort of cop who had cleared them, but with Crab flipping Developer, I now doubt that. But why did CCS have such a strong reaction then?
 

Burbeting

Banned
Achors is still concerning too, although he does still feel genuine in his reactions, at least more-so than CCS. I guess I feel a new player being scum would lead to their posts feeling very fake and staged? Although since this is acohrs' first game in here, there is no point of reference to his other games, so it's hard to say.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Sooo...

I fucked up.

Sorry, Flame. I was incredibly certain Ty was Scum because of his actions in the Corn vote and his comments the last Day phase just felt wrong and like he was deflecting and was protecting his scum buddy. I got so caught up in my own argument that I really didn't see the alternative that Flame was Town, I was just so certain I was on the right track. But with Flame flipping Town...I don't see why a Scum!Ty would do what he did with Corn, it would only bring unnecessary attention to himself.

As for this Day phase...I'm less certain of what to do. I'm more than likely going to be voting for Burb and would like to know why he stayed on Kryptik the last Day Phase. I also want to hear from Splinter since he just joined and only gave brief thoughts the last Day Phase ( including ignoring my question :x ). Also thoughts from Bronx/Kryptik/CCS/Acohrs, even a reads list will do.
 

Burbeting

Banned
As for this Day phase...I'm less certain of what to do. I'm more than likely going to be voting for Burb and would like to know why he stayed on Kryptik the last Day Phase.

He was then, and still is my main scum read at the moment. I town read Flame for the whole day phase started, and that didn't change either.

I'm little confused why you are questioning my vote for him, though.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Going with that assumption I don't think Burb got a scum check N1 just because most people would immediately claim that as 1/1 trades favor town over scum.

I'm going to keep looking for whom he might have hit, but if my assumptions are correct it seems whomever he hit N1 might have been dead by the time that post was written so it was pointless to mention them.

Do we know if that's the order Crab received his powers? It says he had to use the power the Night he got it so it's possible he may have gotten the Alignment Cop a different Night. I'll go take a look myself but I don't think we should just restrict looking for the Cop Check on Day 2.

With Flame flipped, it's now clear that D3 was a town vs town situation. I'd assume scum could use that situation to sit back, and let things implode by themselves, which doesn't really make me feel any better about Kryptik, who has definitely been very mellow, and in the background. CCS's reaction to me being suspicious of Sawneeks and Acohrs was... weird, at least. I considered him being possibly some sort of cop who had cleared them, but with Crab flipping Developer, I now doubt that. But why did CCS have such a strong reaction then?

Actually, I agree with Burb here and would like to know why CCS said he trusted the two of us '100%'. I took CCS saying he trusted me and Acohrs because he Cop checked us but with Crab flipping with 2 Cop powers I don't think we would have another normal Cop running around.

He was then, and still is my main scum read at the moment. I town read Flame for the whole day phase started, and that didn't change either.

I'm little confused why you are questioning my vote for him, though.

I'm also asking why you scum read him.

I ask because if you felt that strongly he was Scum it didn't really come across that way. I know you felt Flame was Town and you weren't about to vote for yourself but it felt like you just plopped your vote down on Kryptik and left, not really caring if it got picked up or not.
 

Ty4on

Member
Okay, so.

(the Quantum vote)

So, my thoughts are that: early participators are probably town. Maybe not the very first people - before it becomes clear that QB was heading to the lynch - but I'm reasonably confident now that Sawneeks is town. So that's useful.

Unfortunately, fmpov, that's just one extra piece of information. Bronx was the very first vote, and I don't think at that stage it was obvious that QB would take off. Pop-O-Matic voted QB to break the tie and shift the lynch off themselves. It's plausible at least that they could be scum with an even more useful role than QB. By burbeting and especially Kalor, it's relatively clear this wagon was going to happen - this is where the bus would be, amongst latecomers keen to win brownie points when the situation wasn't going to change anyway. So while I think this makes Sawneeks clear and it should make me clear to the rest of you, it's not that useful to me personally.
I wanted to highlight the bolded because it seems to hint at him not looking at anyone voting for Quantum. The initial callout for Saw confused me because he later scum read her. I'm pretty sure he didn't check Saw because on top of all of that it doesn't make that much sense to check a town read and Crab didn't seem suspicious of her the day before.

What else leaps out about this list? Well, there was an early wagon building on Pop-O-Matic, and Pop was acting real weird. Such a confident read on someone most of us felt a little peturbed by strikes me as classic confidence building - as scum, if you know someone is town, and everyone else really doubts them, then when they're lynched and flipped town, you look both prescient and like a real townie fellow. So this makes me a little less worried of Pop-O-Matic than I was yesterday - although I am still deeply uncomfortable with their overall play. The one thing I am cautious of: the one reason scum might lynch QB is to overturn from an even worse lynch. So I'm keeping a tab on the probability P-o-M is an especially useful scum role.
He seems too negative of Pop for him to be his target, but maybe?

There's probably a scum in lean town somewhere. I feel reasonably alright about Sawneeks for the time being, and LoC for reasons I'll explain shortly. So Kalor and CornBurrito are high up on my list of lynchees for the time being. Equally, there's probably scum in leans scum/scum, although I don't have sufficient reasons to pick out anyone in particular.

But that's not the only information we got from yesterday. We got a glimpse of scum's choices. So, night reconstruction: combine is dead. Given combine's ability, they have to be directly targeted. If LoC is truthtelling, well, that's probably all of our killing roles. Having vig, maf, and another is 3 kills a night - the game'd be over in ridiculous time. So it's probably just vig and maf. Vig claims targeting the not especially dead Haly. So mafia must have targeted combine.
He doesn't quite explain why LoC is a town read so this made me think maybe he was the target.

So, things that happened today.

First: LoC. Okay, suppose he's town, and we'll take his word. What does that mean for Haly? Well... very little. We're incredibly early on in the game. Odds are there's a doctor, or a roleblocker (we had a neutral one for a start), there may be town bulletproof, there could have been a redirector. There's about a zillion reasons why Haly may not have died. In fact, him being mafia is probably the one of the less likely ones - mafia bulletproof is not enormously common and mafia doctor is even rarer. I have no idea why LoC thought his lack-of-death was a scumtell. It doesn't seem at all credible to me, and as a town vigilante in his position, I'd have said absolutely nothing, which LoC didn't do. So he's not playing like town, or at least good town.

Now let's suppose LoC is scum. Well, what did this gain him? Could be a desperate attempt to lynch Haly after an investigation, except I think it would be obvious to almost everyone how poor the case is, so that seems not especially believable. Could be an attempt to cement himself as a town PR early on, except that doesn't really work because vigilante is one of the strongest town roles and if he's not dead shortly it would be very surprising indeed and I don't think we'd find his case credible. So I don't think he's playing like scum. Instead, I think it was just a poor decision - less than good town play.
More of the same assumption that LoC is town.

Bronx being called out. Well, that, at least to me, seems like a public cop - they investigate a target and the result is alluded to in the night details. It's risker than a non-revealing cop because if mafia can work out the allusion, then they know who to kill to stop the cop accumulating innocent reads. Bronx's message, at least to me, reads something like that - but others have already pointed this out, so I don't think I'm breaking any secrets to mafia here. I am inclined to think of Bronx as town for now on account of this, although that depends how well this mechanic continues to accord with my future reads.
With Bronx however he mentioned "accord with my future reads" as if he isn't that sure of it.

1 [m] Bronx-Man [town]
2 [m] Burbeting [null]
3 [m] CCS [lean scum]
5 [m] Coppanuva [null]
6 [m] CornBurrito [lean scum]
8 [m] Pop-O-Matic [lean town]
9 [m] Evilisk [null]
10 [m] Flame_AC [null]
11 [any] Haly [null]
12 [m] Kalor [scum]
13 [m] kryptikjoker [lean town]
14 [m] Lord of Castamere [town]
15 [m] Not [null]
17 [f] Sawneeks [lean town]

Most of my reads are only weakly developed at the moment, as is the norm for this early in the game, so don't take them too seriously, but this is the rough shape of my thoughts at the moment.

VOTE: Kalor
Here LoC is in the town section together with Bronx as the only two strong reads.

-----------------------------------
Currently thinking LoC was the N1 target, but it is a little weird he didn't call him out later. Possibly trying to stay hidden, but that post with the Flame read was a little "Hey I have an investigative role" in retrospect. Combine and roleblock are also possible. LoC's shot missing however hints at the (presumed) scum roleblocker targeting him and not Crab.
 

Ty4on

Member
Do we know if that's the order Crab received his powers? It says he had to use the power the Night he got it so it's possible he may have gotten the Alignment Cop a different Night. I'll go take a look myself but I don't think we should just restrict looking for the Cop Check on Day 2.

I think cabot would mention it if they weren't in order.

Maybe we could get a clarification?
Alignment Cop - N1
Motion Detector - N2
Name Cop - N3
Voyeur - N4
 

Ty4on

Member
I seriously doubt CCS and Acohrs are scum. I've thought enough about them so I want a solid reason why I should think they are over "maybe~" :p

ATM my lynch list is:
Sawneeks > Burbeting = Kryptik
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Inclined to agree. It looks a lot to me like a public read for a one-shot cop. I'm inclined to ignore it for the time being and not waste too much time over analysing.

I know what LoC said. I'm asking if we think he is telling the truth. If I was a town vigilante with multiple shots, I would be firing off all night every night. It's the equivalent of No Lynching - even if you shoot town, you get information, and you have a bonus chance of hitting scum. And what's more, I think any experience town, like LoC is, ought to be able to work this out. So the fact we got a very strange night kill by anyone's standard and the fact LoC claims he didn't shoot certainly makes me wonder.

I don't think he checked LoC Night 1, Ty. This was from Day 3 and he is way too skeptical to have checked LoC's alignment.
 

Burbeting

Banned
I'm also asking why you scum read him.

I ask because if you felt that strongly he was Scum it didn't really come across that way. I know you felt Flame was Town and you weren't about to vote for yourself but it felt like you just plopped your vote down on Kryptik and left, not really caring if it got picked up or not.

The scum read was tied to me town-reading Flame:

13. kryptikjoker – He felt quite aggressive during day 1, and somewhat defensive, which was a bit worrying. However, he was not apologetic like Evillisk was, which made me feel better about him. However, after D1 Kryptik has considerably mellowed out, and has only posted few short posts. He jumped very lazily on the Kalor vote, just stating “Case has been made for Kalor”, really. He voted D3 on Flame, with at least a better justification that acohrs than CCS did, but it still wasn’t much. Today he just tossed his vote again on Flame, and not much else. So there hasn’t been much at all in terms of contributions from kryptik lately. Is he coasting, while watching town having a town vs town fight with corn vs flame? It’s not unusual for scum players to just wait it out, laughing in the scum chat while not saying much at all in the game thread itself. Feels scummy to me.

Kryptik has been acting very close to how scum tend to act in games that go to a town vs town situation: Go to the background, and let the fireworks go off. The more the conversation of the day is being eaten away by the town fighting amongst by themselves. So he just did the minimal contribution, threw some shade at Flame and left more or less. This happened again yesterday (he did post few short posts yesterday), it's possible Kryptik might have hoped town/other scum would jump on the easy target of the other person in the town vs town clash, which is what happened.

Me leaving wasn't out of my own choice, the movie night had been decided a month earlier. And I did try to ask people's opinions on Kryptik and CCS (maybe bit more with CCS, admittedly).
 

Burbeting

Banned
Eh.. looks like it's in order I guess? :p

I guess it could possibly be reversed order? So Voyeur N1, and so on. Giving alignment cop first would be strange, it is definitely the most powerful role out of those four. And why would name cop be given after alignment cop.
 

Ty4on

Member
I guess it is possible Crab's role was what announced Bronx to the rest of the game and he was vague about his read so scum wouldn't suspect it was him. Explains the one shot nature and why nobody claimed it.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
I seriously doubt CCS and Acohrs are scum. I've thought enough about them so I want a solid reason why I should think they are over "maybe~" :p

ATM my lynch list is:
Sawneeks > Burbeting = Kryptik

<3 you too Ty

That's a valid point, forgot about that. I still think he checked LoC, not sure whom else he could've checked and that wasn't a scum read.

True, but that doesn't read to me like someone to got a Cop check. It's not exactly a glowing opinion of LoC.

Eh.. looks like it's in order I guess? :p

...sure? I mean, Crab doesn't have many posts anyway so even if that list isn't in order it shouldn't be too hard to find any breadcrumbs.
 

Ty4on

Member
I guess it could possibly be reversed order? So Voyeur N1, and so on. Giving alignment cop first would be strange, it is definitely the most powerful role out of those four. And why would name cop be given after alignment cop.

W...why would cabot give us a reversed order? It's cabot, sure, but that's a weird way of doing things. Randomized I could understand, but I think it would've been stated in the post.
True, but that doesn't read to me like someone to got a Cop check. It's not exactly a glowing opinion of LoC.
I don't think he wanted to give scum team another reason to NK him either :p
 

Burbeting

Banned
W...why would cabot give us a reversed order? It's cabot, sure, but that's a weird way of doing things. Randomized I could understand, but I think it would've been stated in the post.

It just seems weird he would get aligment cop first, and name cop only later.
 

Ty4on

Member
I didn't like his day end silence yesterday, but today I find Splinter's silence weirdly townie. He loves being scum and isn't scared of being active. I kinda have a hard time seeing scum!Splinter missing the day start.

/weirdread
 
So I haven't really been keeping up with the pop scene since Lady Gaga's Born this Way and Beyonce's 4... so what have I been missing?
 

Burbeting

Banned
Oook then. Who do you think he name cop-ed on N2?

Oh and cabot, just to be sure, Name Cop means Role Name Cop?

I have to take a look at D3 if I find any bread-crumps for that. QuantumBro flipped as Adam Levine, so I wonder if the other scum role names have some kind of thematic consistensy to it?
 

Burbeting

Banned
I have to take a look at D3 if I find any bread-crumps for that. QuantumBro flipped as Adam Levine, so I wonder if the other scum role names have some kind of thematic consistensy to it?

If he did name-cop someone N2, he most likely didn't find any name that was 100% scum name, otherwise he might have claimed.
 

Ty4on

Member
So I haven't really been keeping up with the pop scene since Lady Gaga's Born this Way and Beyonce's 4... so what have I been missing?

Uh oh...

This is a mafia game where the flavor is pop music. You can learn more about them here:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1304599
In a nutshell they're the same as the real life game only on a forum. There you deduce who the bad guys, mafia, are from conversation and agree on people to lynch.
 

Ty4on

Member
If he did name-cop someone N2, he most likely didn't find any name that was 100% scum name, otherwise he might have claimed.

My issue with getting the fluff name being the function is it's A) very similar to the alignment cop (pretty much impossible to deduce plausible role) and B) useless unless there's a claim. Fluff names usually don't mean much, but they mean even less in this game and the scum role name we know of, Quantum's, wasn't alignment indicative.

Can't rule it out, but I not feeling it being the case and if it was I think he learned virtually nothing unless scum is like Maroon 5 members.
 
Town:
Bronx-Man

Scum:
Burbeting

Lean Town:
Ty4on
acohrs

Lean Scum:
Sawneeks
CCS

Unknown:
*Splinter

Totally screwed up yesterday with my misread of Flame. After reading Crab's assessment of Flame and then seeing the results after last night, I'm more inclined to believe that we're dealing with extremely experienced scum and that they picked up that Crab had a PR.
 

CCS

Banned
My scum reads yesterday were Flame, Burbeting, and Kryptik. Flame dying obviously takes him off that list, but I'm reasonably confident in keeping Burbeting and Kryptik on there. If there are three scum, not sure who the other is though. Will post more in a bit.
 

CCS

Banned
In terms of my reads, I have Acohrs, Saw, and probably Bronx as solid town. Splinter is pretty much a null because of barely posting since joining and I wasn't sure either way on LoC.

I'm pretty confident in Burbeting and Kryptik as scum, I believe I explained why last day. If that's the not the case and I'm going mad, I'm happy to explain.

Ty is a weird one. He feels like town from his general play but a lot of his lynch targets make me a bit uneasy. Could be scum, but for now I'd much rather lynch one of the two players of whom I have confidence in their scumminess.
 

*Splinter

Member
Unknown:
*Splinter
Why would I be unknown? Sure I just subbed in but I inherit the same alignment/role as LoC. This just seems lazy.

Splinter is pretty much a null because of barely posting since joining and I wasn't sure either way on LoC.
Same again. You at least acknowledge LoC, but why should he be a null read? He was a claimed PR, it seems awful convenient that your only null happens to be the one you might think you can get away with (due to the subbing).
 

acohrs

Member
I feel my post explains enough. I'm not going further into details

Chose the wrong song there Cabot, I would have gone with this:

hqdefault.jpg
 

acohrs

Member
Now, game face:

12556441325_615254356a_z.jpg


RIP Flame, surprised that he flipped townie. Was 60/40 sure that he was scum, especially with his last few pleas of desperation. A lesser person would let defeat and a mistake cloud their judgment and halt them...

0d4.gif


Vote: Burbeting

Going to get through my list whether it kills me or not
 

*Splinter

Member
Sawneeks I think you asked why I townread Ty and scumread you?

Ty has been my one townread ever since he subbed in. Game was dead and he started filling it with very Ty-feeling posts. His alignment just seemed obvious from outside the game, and if he's scum then he's played a blinder. My only doubt on him was the possibility he was trying to save Flame, and that's no longer (as much of) a concern.

As for you, I don't remember specifically. I'd say "I'll have to go back over your posts" but I'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen.

I've never had the impression you're searching for scum. In this phase for example we've had Ty searching through Breadcrumbs while you muddy the waters with "oh maybe the powers are in the wrong order we shouldn't assume this works like this we don't know anything really". Sure maybe this is a valid concern but at this point Crab's role PM is probably our best lead and I can only see you as trying to neuter it.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Acohrs, you do realise this is MYLO, so even few miscast town votes could lead into scum turboing the game into their victory?
 

acohrs

Member
Acohrs, you do realise this is MYLO, so even few miscast town votes could lead into scum turboing the game into their victory?

Not miscast, for everyone else I'd give them a 30% chance of being scum. For you I'm going as high as 50/50 that you're scum.

Now...

catlp117_border_1.jpg


Convince me you're not!
 

*Splinter

Member
Ty, would Crab's breadcrumbs line up with him checking LoC N2 and seeing no action? If I gained a tracking role that night thats probably who I'd check, and could maybe explain his trust later on?

Also has there been much interaction between Saw/Burb? I see them both throwing shade at each other this phase but if they've never really pushed each other I'm reading that as distancing. Saw for example was well on the flame train yesterday (and had that slightly over-wrought apology at the start of this day phase). Burb I don't remember, 1 sec.
 

*Splinter

Member
There's a few players I haven't mentioned yet. Spoiler alert null reads incoming.

CCS: He's been my "too scummy to be scum" player for most of the game. A lot of the things he posts feel whispered from the sidelines and he's avoided stepping on any toes. Tbh this read is influenced by that one live Mafia game I played with him where I had a very similar feeling and he was indeed town.

Kriptik feels likely to be scum - Burb's criticisms are valid as far as I can see. My obvious hesitation is that Burb is likely scum too, so is this a bus? Or maybe scum-Burb identified the most likely mislynch and has been pushing it in advance of the inevitable flame lynch (this feels likely). Or I'm simply wrong about Burb.

Acohrs I can't read at all. He's new but confident. I assume he's played Mafia elsewhere but I dont have the advantage of seeing his past performances. His posts in this game seem... consistent, at least. They're townie posts but it's the kind of townie that an experience scum can fake quite easily. My ongoing null read of him makes me nervous.

Is that everyone alive?

Me
Ty
Saw
Burb
CCS
Kriptik
Acohrs

I'm missing at least 1
 

acohrs

Member
There's a few players I haven't mentioned yet. Spoiler alert null reads incoming.

CCS: He's been my "too scummy to be scum" player for most of the game. A lot of the things he posts feel whispered from the sidelines and he's avoided stepping on any toes. Tbh this read is influenced by that one live Mafia game I played with him where I had a very similar feeling and he was indeed town.

Kriptik feels likely to be scum - Burb's criticisms are valid as far as I can see. My obvious hesitation is that Burb is likely scum too, so is this a bus? Or maybe scum-Burb identified the most likely mislynch and has been pushing it in advance of the inevitable flame lynch (this feels likely). Or I'm simply wrong about Burb.

Acohrs I can't read at all. He's new but confident. I assume he's played Mafia elsewhere but I dont have the advantage of seeing his past performances. His posts in this game seem... consistent, at least. They're townie posts but it's the kind of townie that an experience scum can fake quite easily. My ongoing null read of him makes me nervous.

Is that everyone alive?

Me
Ty
Saw
Burb
CCS
Kriptik
Acohrs

I'm missing at least 1

bronx-man

also, never played mafia before but thank you for the compliment ;)
 
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