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#popMAFIA | So don’t let this be our final song

A

acohrs

Member
*Splinter said:
I'm not sure

Which is why I'm not voting yet.
Click to expand...

Well once you've decided we can talk about it, for now, I'm leaving my vote here on burb. As I said yesterday to a question by Ty4on about who I would shoot with 3 bullets, first flame then burb. And I'm going to do exactly that unless someone else can present a very good argument otherwise.

As for Burb

jessie-j-ariana-grande-nicki-minaj-new-single-bang-bang-listen-lead.jpg


On another note, how depressing is it that when you type in 'bang bang into google, the first song to appear is the one above and not the classic by Nancy Sinatra.
 
C

CCS

Banned
*Splinter said:
Why would I be unknown? Sure I just subbed in but I inherit the same alignment/role as LoC. This just seems lazy.


Same again. You at least acknowledge LoC, but why should he be a null read? He was a claimed PR, it seems awful convenient that your only null happens to be the one you might think you can get away with (due to the subbing).
Click to expand...

He claimed PR it's true, but I was never clear in my mind if I believed him or not. Hence, no read.

Vote: Burbeting
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
What are you two doing? If this is a mylo, and neither of you are scum, scum could now turbo me to death, and win the game.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
CCS said:
He claimed PR it's true, but I was never clear in my mind if I believed him or not. Hence, no read.

Vote: Burbeting
Click to expand...
Sure but you managed a read on everyone else, and they didn't even claim. Your analysis of LoC seems to be limited to "well I don't know if his claim is true or not... Guess that's null ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
*Splinter said:
Oh it's Bronx. Has he had anything notable this game? There was the (blocked?) call out at D2 start, he seems to have coasted by on unexplained town read since then?
Click to expand...

He was the first person who voted on QuantumBro during D1. His behaviour has also been consistent to his past town games, which makes me town read him.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Burbeting said:
What are you two doing? If this is a mylo, and neither of you are scum, scum could now turbo me to death, and win the game.
Click to expand...

Scum aren't going to turbo you to death, because you are one and you can't self vote.

Unless we've completely misread the game, but in that case we're fucked anyway.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
CCS said:
Scum aren't going to turbo you to death, because you are one and you can't self vote.

Unless we've completely misread the game, but in that case we're fucked anyway.
Click to expand...

Or one of my voters is scum.

Still not going to explain why you are 100% town reading sawneeks and acohrs? You latched on to me yesterday because I was (and still am) suspicious of them, even though I voted for Kryptik.

It's eight players remaining now, just force-reading now is not going to help.
 
C

CCS

Banned
*Splinter said:
Sure but you managed a read on everyone else, and they didn't even claim. Your analysis of LoC seems to be limited to "well I don't know if his claim is true or not... Guess that's null ¯_(ツ)_/¯"
Click to expand...

I'll be honest, I've been a bit all over the place on him in my head. I thought he was town, then maybe scum, then town again, then scum, so at this point I'm just throwing my hands in the air :p
 
C

CCS

Banned
Burbeting said:
Or one of my voters is scum.

Still not going to explain why you are 100% town reading sawneeks and acohrs? You latched on to me yesterday because I was (and still am) suspicious of them, even though I voted for Kryptik.

It's eight players remaining now, just force-reading now is not going to help.
Click to expand...

I have proof which I am barred from posting or disclosing. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can lynch me and prove that I'm town (and hand the game to scum as you do...)
 
T

Ty4on

Member
*Splinter said:
Ty, would Crab's breadcrumbs line up with him checking LoC N2 and seeing no action? If I gained a tracking role that night thats probably who I'd check, and could maybe explain his trust later on?
Click to expand...
Maybe, didn't know motion detector worked both ways (thought it just saw received actions). It is also possible that the Bronx call-out was caused by Crab nobody have claimed that ability.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
CCS said:
I have proof which I am barred from posting or disclosing. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can lynch me and prove that I'm town (and hand the game to scum as you do...)
Click to expand...
🤔

Is this an in-game thing where you aren't allowed to disclose something? What's the penalty for doing so?
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
CCS said:
I have proof which I am barred from posting or disclosing. If that doesn't satisfy you, you can lynch me and prove that I'm town (and hand the game to scum as you do...)
Click to expand...

At this point of time (eight players remaining with possibly three scum) any information that would clear other players would be immensely helpful for the town. I assumed you could be claiming cop yesterday, but that seems to not be the case after Crab flipping the role he did.

I don't know what barrs you, but fine. Can you at least tell why you are barred? Some in-game mechanic?
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Ty4on said:
Maybe, didn't know motion detector worked both ways (thought it just saw received actions). It is also possible that the Bronx call-out was caused by Crab nobody have claimed that ability.
Click to expand...
That would be weird. Since there seem to be no details on Crab's abilities I'd expect them to work exactly as their name suggests.

Unless Crab received more info than us for some reason.
 
C

CCS

Banned
*Splinter said:
🤔

Is this an in-game thing where you aren't allowed to disclose something? What's the penalty for doing so?
Click to expand...

Burbeting said:
At this point of time (eight players remaining with possibly three scum) any information that would clear other players would be immensely helpful for the town. I assumed you could be claiming cop yesterday, but that seems to not be the case after Crab flipping the role he did.

I don't know what barrs you, but fine. Can you at least tell why you are barred? Some in-game mechanic?
Click to expand...

Direct ban from Cabot.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
*Splinter said:
That would be weird. Since there seem to be no details on Crab's abilities I'd expect them to work exactly as their name suggests.

Unless Crab received more info than us for some reason.
Click to expand...
The night it was obtained seems to coincide perfectly with the call out though and it would explain why nobody claimed it.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Ty4on said:
The night it was obtained seems to coincide perfectly with the call out though and it would explain why nobody claimed it.
Click to expand...
You could be right, but I don't think anyone but me is claimed at this point. We'll find out when we mass claim, I guess.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Burbeting said:
Ty4on, how do you feel about CCS saying Sawneeks is 100% town? She does seem to be your top pick for the lynch.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really change my read?

If CCS is allowed to know they're town (and sort of tell us that) we have a lot of ways to clear people. I think it's more nuanced.

I wouldn't mind lynching you first tho.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
CCS said:
Tell me about it, I don't know what's going on either :p

Can we all agree to lynch Burb please?
Click to expand...
Are you sure it clears them? Look through them again, it would be weird for something like that to happen without you being replaced or mod-killed.

Obviously cabot let it slide because Saw was scum and acohrs was town ^_^
 
C

CCS

Banned
Ty4on said:
Are you sure it clears them? Look through them again, it would be weird for something like that to happen without you being replaced or mod-killed.

Obviously cabot let it slide because Saw was scum and acohrs was town ^_^
Click to expand...

I may have been misreading what he said, but it's far too late for doubts now.

Also, I have a meeting now, so I won't be replying for a couple of hours. Sorry.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
I don't like any of this. What's with the two votes on me from acohrs and CCS, even though that could lead to scum turboing me to death now?

From my pov, it means either not all scum members are present to turbo me, don't want to turbo in order to not repeat werewolf reborn situation, or one of the votes on me is already scum.

At any case, I feel extremely wary of CCS trying to push for an early turbo on me. If I get lynched, town might lose due to MYLO, so I will not let it pass silently.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
From my POV, possible scum options at this point. First I'll make the assumption Castamere/Splinter's role is true.

If CCS Tells the truth, and we assume he is not scum, the possiblities are:
Bronx-Man
Kryptikjoker
Ty4on

If I assume there is three scum left, that would be the scum team from my point of view. If there are two scum, one person would be dropped off.

If CCS is telling tales, then the possibilites are:
Bronx-man
CCS
acohrs
Kryptikjoker
Ty4on
Sawneeks

The lower list of scum candidates seem more likely to me, than the upper one. I also feel very wary about how CCS has acted today, as I've noted in my posts above.

---

Where did everyone disappear off to?
 
K

kryptikjoker

Member
*Splinter said:
There's a few players I haven't mentioned yet. Spoiler alert null reads incoming.

CCS: He's been my "too scummy to be scum" player for most of the game. A lot of the things he posts feel whispered from the sidelines and he's avoided stepping on any toes. Tbh this read is influenced by that one live Mafia game I played with him where I had a very similar feeling and he was indeed town.

Kriptik feels likely to be scum - Burb's criticisms are valid as far as I can see. My obvious hesitation is that Burb is likely scum too, so is this a bus? Or maybe scum-Burb identified the most likely mislynch and has been pushing it in advance of the inevitable flame lynch (this feels likely). Or I'm simply wrong about Burb.

Acohrs I can't read at all. He's new but confident. I assume he's played Mafia elsewhere but I dont have the advantage of seeing his past performances. His posts in this game seem... consistent, at least. They're townie posts but it's the kind of townie that an experience scum can fake quite easily. My ongoing null read of him makes me nervous.

Is that everyone alive?

Me
Ty
Saw
Burb
CCS
Kriptik
Acohrs

I'm missing at least 1
Click to expand...

This speaks volumes to me. Crab also caught on to Burb's activity the other day:

Crab said:
1 [m] Bronx-Man
Self-vote, probably joking. Votes Flame_AC, probably still just joking but at least leaves a vote relatively early in the day for a papertrail; not non-commital. First person to hit QuantumBro - difficult to read this. Could be a very early bus, but then, he rode it all the way to the end on a relatively powerful scum role. Inclined to read this as townie. Displays relatively good observation.

Understandably occupied with the exact mechanics of the callout, but causes him to be derailed from making actual read contributions for a while. Again, could be non-comittal scum... but then floats suspicion on Sawneeks, which is a big play for scum - Sawneeks is probably one of the most town-read players and pretty competent, so tough to attack. Most scum wouldn't bother - night kill material instead. But backs down so quickly on this it's not really concrete.

Calls LoC as 'dumb townie'. I don't want to be mean to LoC, but I also misread him as, uh, misfiring town. Obviously agreeing with someone's reads doesn't clear them, but it doesn't feel like Bronx is having to force his reads. And this is consistent pattern - Bronx calls Pop as making a bizarre play, a very natural read. Both somewhat obvious, but brownie points still.

Bit of WIFOM in the defense against Pop in #379 (why would I do X if I was scum?), but to be fair WIFOM isn't always illegitimate and the remarks are pretty much on the money. It would be a bold, bold gambit for scum to bus so hard so early. Noticeably no voting or commitment for D2 end.

There's a bit of bitching about the game format. I tend not to like comments like this - they're an easy way to win sympathy because people love complaining about game formats (everyone loves a moan), but at the same time it doesn't actually reveal anything concrete. There's also a general period of derailment around here - sidelined into Overwatch fluff and so on.

The defense for D2 end is, I think, weak - "didn't want to look like scum trying to turbo Kalor". I hate logic like this. There's way more town than there are scum. If a few townies don't seem town and get lynched, well, no great loss at the end of the day. But what differentiates town and scum is that scum have to force acting like town. Town just act like town naturally by virtue of being town. The second you start second-guessing how you appear to others as town, is the second you're playing badly and muddying the waters for everyone else. This isn't an intuitive lesson, though, and it dreails a lot of newer players, so benefit of the doubt here.

The contributions really tail off from here. Normally I'd worry about this as scum who, happy they've established their brand as an active player and definitely not hiding at all, slowly and subtley sink into the background. But... well, everyone active has done this in the game, I think because the slow pace is more than a little demoralizing. If I suspect anyone for this, then like half of town would have to be scum.

Verdict? I think new/inexperienced town, and reasonably confident in that. I'd like to see more positive contribution and a little more focus/slightly sharper edge to the comments. Get into arguments, push people, expose nerves. But I don't think the relatively passive play is indicative of scum here.

2 [m] Burbeting - GMT+2

Starts with a loose post - "I'd prod people if they were inactive, but they aren't, so I won't". Continues with see-sawing on Pop-O-Matic, and doesn't even conclude, finishes with "But would pop really try to emulate Blarg?". I don't know, Burb, if you have thoughts why not say them? #151 is telling people not to no lynch, which, fine is a true contribution... but it also a very obvious one, and we've now got through a number of posts with no real meat. #172 is more dodging and dancing - trying to establish a presence as a voice to be listened to by using then explaining OMGUS, throwing shade at kryptik... but without committing, just floating trailers in the water to see if anyone bites.

We don't get our first real stance until #192. It starts off by just criticizing people who put out super early leads. I mean, I agree - I also said this myself. But it continues Burbs trend of dropping generic advice (like his brief "hey guys No Lynching is bad" post) that doesn't contribute to the specifics of the game. And I think Burb knows this is beginning to stand out, because again, we get a (very) tentative float of QuantumBro, LoC, and Kryptik -- all of whom have been called out by others at this point.

Another empty advice post in #195 - "hey guys, post more". Also, there's a lot of double-posting here. Its a good way to boost post-count and appear more active than you really are. We have #192, #193, then #195, #196 - so that's 4 postsworth out of what could probably have been one! Good scumtrick that, one experienced scum pick up quite quickly, and Burb is experienced.

We get all the way to #214 before Burb actually places a vote/makes any post that has any real value to town as a whole. It's a fair vote, but also, at that point, a very safe one - Evilisk was indeed very quiet, but also very new, and unlikely to be able to defend well. And Burb splits posts again - the justification for Evilisk is in #215, immediately after the prior post.

And in #281, we get Burb late into the QuantumBro wagon - after Quantum has already taken the lead and with 27 minutes until day end - i.e., at a game-pace this slow,. very unlikely that lead would be altered either way (the day was extended by half an hour, but Burb didn't know that at the time). That's a vote screaming bus if I ever saw one - as scum, Burb would know QB was going to flip and it was unlikely to change as far as votes go, so great point to hit the wagon. And in #289, we get "At any case the pile-up is going to give us some interesting information going forward to D2."; or a lead-in to be able to say the next day "Well, I voted QB, we can conclude I wasn't scum from that D2 pile-up!".

#314 is back to the old fluff production - explaining Combine's role PM which frankly anyone ought to be able to do if they can read, and the ole generic "yay! scum are dead! i'm celebrating this, look how town I am!". #316, more obvious commentary. #323 more set-up commentary, and not useful at that. Burb's next post tries to look contentful - discusses why he thinks Haly and LoC are town - but it is recycled material; his defence of LoC is taken from e.g. Sawneeks' #369.

Burb's net attack is on Bronx. This is confusing, because... I mean, Bronx just reads town, I'm going to be blunt. He might be scum, but to me, he certainly isn't showing the tells for it, and I think Burb's argument just doesn't flow. But I think scumm will be very keen to try and lynch Bronx - as Haly and I have argued for, Bronx's call-out was probably a public-cop, which means he is (probably) confirmed town (and we'd find out as such if the public cop flips). Mafia will know Bronx is town if he is, and they'll probably suspect the call-out for what it is, and so they know they need to get rid of Bronx or they'll have a confirmed town floating around late-game, which is dangerous.

#409 fits the pattern which I'm hoping we're all beginning to notice by now - Burb creates posts that are, at face value, designed to look active/contributory, but under the surface, are simply not. So Burb decides to go through QB's votes in order - something I've already done. Starts with me, doesn't reall have a conclusion (just: "seems solid"). Clears Saw using essentially the same analysis as my post, while also using an off remark Saw made to try and buttress Burb's own position. Dodges around on Pop - the vote is "not very alignment indicative", and to the extent Burb reaches a position, it is "probably town", echoing my analysis. Has a whole paragraph analyzing his own vote - who does that? We don't need to hear your read on why you are town, that's... just scummy. He then goes to Kalor. This is not suspiscious in and of itself - I'd already gone with kalor - but it is suspiscious *because* I had already gone with Kalor. It is recycled material, and joining a wagon early on to help really get it rolling.

#426 is avoiding Sawneek's question. #463 is more "finding ways of posting without actually posting".

I hadn't really examined Burb as much as I should, but the more I look, the more I become convinced there's a scum here. I can't remember the GAF character limit, but this is pretty long now, so:

VOTE: Burbeting

and I'll continue with CCS shortly.
Click to expand...

Burb's response was essentially "that's how I play" and it was left it at that. Crab was found to be Developer and was solid on voting for Burbeting 2 days in a row after acquiring Name Cop and Motion Detector roles. He even hinted that he felt changing his vote was not necessarily the best move on day 3:

Crab said:
At present rates, I think Flame will be replaced before long, and I don't want us to blow our load on that one when it will most likely be a nothingburger. My Burb vote isn't catching fire (which is probably suspiscious in and of itself... hint, hint), so I'm going to

VOTE: CornBurrito

to force a tie and make someone on Flame switch to Corn, 'cause I'm a stubborn motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Then the turbo from Flame to Corn happened (which surprised the hell out of me).

We're dealing with experienced scum.

VOTE: Burbeting
 
A

acohrs

Member
Burbeting said:
From my POV, possible scum options at this point. First I'll make the assumption Castamere/Splinter's role is true.

If CCS Tells the truth, and we assume he is not scum, the possiblities are:
Bronx-Man
Kryptikjoker
Ty4on

If I assume there is three scum left, that would be the scum team from my point of view. If there are two scum, one person would be dropped off.

If CCS is telling tales, then the possibilites are:
Bronx-man
CCS
acohrs
Kryptikjoker
Ty4on
Sawneeks

The lower list of scum candidates seem more likely to me, than the upper one. I also feel very wary about how CCS has acted today, as I've noted in my posts above.

---

Where did everyone disappear off to?
Click to expand...

I think everyone realised how smart and right I am and decided to pack their things up and go home for this day phase and let me lynch you.
 
A

acohrs

Member
kryptikjoker said:
This speaks volumes to me. Crab also caught on to Burb's activity the other day:



Burb's response was essentially "that's how I play" and it was left it at that. Crab was found to be Developer and was solid on voting for Burbeting 2 days in a row after acquiring Name Cop and Motion Detector roles. He even hinted that he felt changing his vote was not necessarily the best move on day 3:



Then the turbo from Flame to Corn happened (which surprised the hell out of me).

We're dealing with experienced scum.

VOTE: Burbeting
Click to expand...

860.gif
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Kryptik, do you think Crab got a red check on Burb and then decided to stay silent even when the lynch went the other way? From Crab's perspective he has a valuable role, but he's a player who generally dies early as town and scum flips are so much more valuable for town.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
I would like to hear from Bronx before turboing. If he's town it's not that unlikely he has a power as we've lost a lot of ordinaries.
 
K

kryptikjoker

Member
Ty4on said:
Kryptik, do you think Crab got a red check on Burb and then decided to stay silent even when the lynch went the other way? From Crab's perspective he has a valuable role, but he's a player who generally dies early as town and scum flips are so much more valuable for town.
Click to expand...

I believe that Crab tried to keep their opinion of Burbeting under the radar enough to gain more information about his role through subsequent days, which Crab started pushing for Burb on days 3 and 4. Above I did show a post in which Crab was pushing for a Burb vote but saw the votes go in another direction, yet begrudgingly moved his vote with a plan to push for Burb on subsequent days. And with Crab's lynch last night, I think that speaks volumes to how correct their read was of Burb.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Could the whole scum team be pushing for turbo when not even 24h has passed of the day, and not everyone has checked in? Surely they wouldn't be this arrogant, but who knows.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
kryptikjoker said:
I believe that Crab tried to keep their opinion of Burbeting under the radar enough to gain more information about his role through subsequent days, which Crab started pushing for Burb on days 3 and 4. Above I did show a post in which Crab was pushing for a Burb vote but saw the votes go in another direction, yet begrudgingly moved his vote with a plan to push for Burb on subsequent days. And with Crab's lynch last night, I think that speaks volumes to how correct their read was of Burb.
Click to expand...
It's as if you know this :p
What if they NK-ed him because he was wrong and his kill would leave town astray?
 
K

kryptikjoker

Member
Ty4on said:
It's as if you know this :p
What if they NK-ed him because he was wrong and his kill would leave town astray?
Click to expand...

Well, then this is where we are then as town. Astray. Obviously, the status of the current game is on accuracy and there's the issue if town mislynches then it's a loss. I, as you Ty, am extremely interested to hear Bronx's opinion.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
kryptikjoker said:
Well, then this is where we are then as town. Astray. Obviously, the status of the current game is on accuracy and there's the issue if town mislynches then it's a loss. I, as you Ty, am extremely interested to hear Bronx's opinion.
Click to expand...
Why are you voting if you wanna hear what Bronx has to say?
 
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