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#popMAFIA | So don’t let this be our final song

CCS

Banned
4895_0.jpg

Hahahaha man your gif/photo responses are slaying me right now.

I wouldn't mind a turbo, I'd like to hear from Bronx but there's something to be said for dying quickly if we're going to die at all.

I do find it very telling how Burb is mostly defending himself by warning against a turbo rather than actually defending against the charge of being scum.
 

Ty4on

Member
Hahahaha man your gif/photo responses are slaying me right now.

I wouldn't mind a turbo, I'd like to hear from Bronx but there's something to be said for dying quickly if we're going to die at all.

I do find it very telling how Burb is mostly defending himself by warning against a turbo rather than actually defending against the charge of being scum.

Oh, he's scummy af, but it'd be nice to actually hear from Bronx. If you're right he could be scum coasting while his mate is killed.
 

CCS

Banned
Oh, he's scummy af, but it'd be nice to actually hear from Bronx. If you're right he could be scum coasting while his mate is killed.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident in lynching Burb but I am a bit concerned about where we go from there.
 

Ty4on

Member
Scum aren't going to turbo you to death, because you are one and you can't self vote.

Unless we've completely misread the game, but in that case we're fucked anyway.
The rules don't say anything about the legality of voting for oneself.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Didn't we just learn not to go with "low-activity = scum" after Flame flipped town? Anyway, we're losing numbers drastically so I gotta do what's necessary for town and come clean.

I am Taylor Swift, town jailkeeper. Every night I can send the command JAIL and roleblock anyone. While I can stop someone from using their PR, it also protects them from any PRs happening to them.

As for reads, I'm blind as a bat right now after Flame turned out to be town.
 

acohrs

Member
Didn't we just learn not to go with "low-activity = scum" after Flame flipped town? Anyway, we're losing numbers drastically so I gotta do what's necessary for town and come clean.

I am Taylor Swift, town jailkeeper. Every night I can send the command JAIL and roleblock anyone. While I can stop someone from using their PR, it also protects them from any PRs happening to them.

As for reads, I'm blind as a bat right now after Flame turned out to be town.

Huh, is that why you didn't get called out, whatever the he'll that is, during N1?
 

Sawneeks

Banned
The scum read was tied to me town-reading Flame:

Kryptik has been acting very close to how scum tend to act in games that go to a town vs town situation: Go to the background, and let the fireworks go off. The more the conversation of the day is being eaten away by the town fighting amongst by themselves. So he just did the minimal contribution, threw some shade at Flame and left more or less. This happened again yesterday (he did post few short posts yesterday), it's possible Kryptik might have hoped town/other scum would jump on the easy target of the other person in the town vs town clash, which is what happened.

Me leaving wasn't out of my own choice, the movie night had been decided a month earlier. And I did try to ask people's opinions on Kryptik and CCS (maybe bit more with CCS, admittedly).

I'm not questioning whether you were here or not, I'm questioning why you never pushed for Kryptik in the first place. All you did was make your read, vote, and then make one post right after making a light question towards him. If he was your top Scum read AND you felt confident that Flame was Town AND you knew you were Town I don't see why you wouldn't advocate for it more. You essentially sat back and watched Town spiral and didn't really care.

Sawneeks I think you asked why I townread Ty and scumread you?

Ty has been my one townread ever since he subbed in. Game was dead and he started filling it with very Ty-feeling posts. His alignment just seemed obvious from outside the game, and if he's scum then he's played a blinder. My only doubt on him was the possibility he was trying to save Flame, and that's no longer (as much of) a concern.

As for you, I don't remember specifically. I'd say "I'll have to go back over your posts" but I'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen.

I've never had the impression you're searching for scum. In this phase for example we've had Ty searching through Breadcrumbs while you muddy the waters with "oh maybe the powers are in the wrong order we shouldn't assume this works like this we don't know anything really". Sure maybe this is a valid concern but at this point Crab's role PM is probably our best lead and I can only see you as trying to neuter it.

Well, I now agree with you on your Town Read of Ty.

I was also asking a valid question? Having clarification on what order Crab received his powers in would make it a lot easier to go back and look for any breadcrumbs. I don't see how that's trying to 'neuter' it. :x

I'd say the second :p

Now I'm really confused. ._.

Didn't we just learn not to go with "low-activity = scum" after Flame flipped town? Anyway, we're losing numbers drastically so I gotta do what's necessary for town and come clean.

I am Taylor Swift, town jailkeeper. Every night I can send the command JAIL and roleblock anyone. While I can stop someone from using their PR, it also protects them from any PRs happening to them.

As for reads, I'm blind as a bat right now after Flame turned out to be town.

What made you decide to claim now? Yeah we're losing numbers but you just painted a huge target on your back for almost no reason? Your role arguably becomes stronger as the game goes on since you have a way higher chance of stopping Scum.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Also, Ty, I found this:

I think the callout was a one shot. While it's not as powerful as a straight up cop, I think 2 masons and a 1-shot public cop and is quite enough investigative power for town, especially in a 17 player game.

If/when they die we'll be able to confirm Bronx-man's status.

This was on Day 3 and Crab's response was:

Inclined to agree. It looks a lot to me like a public read for a one-shot cop. I'm inclined to ignore it for the time being and not waste too much time over analysing.

I know what LoC said. I'm asking if we think he is telling the truth. If I was a town vigilante with multiple shots, I would be firing off all night every night. It's the equivalent of No Lynching - even if you shoot town, you get information, and you have a bonus chance of hitting scum. And what's more, I think any experience town, like LoC is, ought to be able to work this out. So the fact we got a very strange night kill by anyone's standard and the fact LoC claims he didn't shoot certainly makes me wonder.

So if his powers were gained in order then it does line-up with the Call-Out on Bronx. Crab also seems to agree, so unless the Call-Out was something else and Crab also checked Bronx the same Night then Crab's Cop Check was what the Call-out was.
 

Ty4on

Member
Also, Ty, I found this:



This was on Day 3 and Crab's response was:



So if his powers were gained in order then it does line-up with the Call-Out on Bronx. Crab also seems to agree, so unless the Call-Out was something else and Crab also checked Bronx the same Night then Crab's Cop Check was what the Call-out was.

Good catch, I forgot all about that. Makes more sense to not be as obvious with crumbs if it was a public callout.
 

*Splinter

Member
No really we have no idea. Burb is ooo sketchy Kriptik is ooo I dunno kinda inactive Sawneeks is ooooo sickgutreads. Bronx had the right idea let's get some claimed going people
 

Sawneeks

Banned
I still don't town read you :/

What do you think of CCS right now?
Do Burb's votes on Kryptik make you think they're W/W or not?
What do you think the likelihood of scum!LoC claiming vig is?
How certain are you Burb is scum?

1. Still Town read, just highly confused. I took him saying he trusted Acohrs and I '100%' meaning he cop checked us or else I wouldn't really see why he would say that. Now that he's saying he can't 'disclose' his info, plus Crab flipping as the sort-of Cop, just leaves me really lost. He's either completely lying and this is some sort of Scum gambit to look like a Cop ( which doesn't make sense since nearly everyone Town Read him before this so fake claiming brings too much unnecessary attention and possibly gets called out by the real cop ) or he's Town and is playing coy with his info to bait a NK.
2. I'm not ruling out the possibility. Kryptik wasn't gaining any steam the last Day Phase and Burb never actively pushed for his lynch, it would have been the perfect time to put down a vote down on your Scum buddy. If Burb does flip Scum I don't think that should rule out Kryptik as possibly being Scum as well.
3. Hmmmm, I'm bad with percentages but a weak 30%? I know I had my theory the last Day Phase but I wasn't super sold on it then and I'm even less sold on it now. LoC did ride that wave of him being 'cleared' by his claim for a really long time and despite claiming a multi-shot Vig he was never NKed. I also still don't quite understand what claiming that his shot against Haly missed would do. Rally us all and lynch Haly? I need to go back and re-read LoC since I don't remember much of what he did besides claim, but I also haven't seen anything out of the ordinary for Splinter so I'm not in a huge rush.
4. Well considering I was super certain yesterday and was wrong, not very. He is the scummiest out of everyone right now but there also doesn't seem to be any opposition to his lynch either which worries me. If there are 3 Scum left and one of them is Burb, that's 2 other Scum players that are running around and are bussing their teammate. Considering we might be in MYLO I feel like Scum would be trying to divert elsewhere instead of just accepting their fate this quickly.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Some reads since I finished my re-read:

1 [m] Bronx-Man

Town. It's been talked about already but his Day 1 actions against QB don't look like something Scum would do. QB was falling between the cracks and Bronx bringin it back up again which wouldn't make sense if they were on the same team as Bronx could have just let it slip away. Couple with this post here and as well as this one here, I think it's also safe to assume that Crab Cop-Checked Bronx on Night 1 and the Call-Out was tied to that. Unless Bronx is a Godfather and bussing QB was some insane unncesary gambit, I don't think he is Scum.

2 [m] Burbeting - GMT+2

Lean Scum. Crab's analysis has been brought up before and I do agree with it. Much of Burb's early activity is him posting things here and there but not really taking any stance for or against them. He's around and saying things, but he isn't really there and contributing if that makes any sense. I also don't like how he voted for Kryptik the last Day Phase and just left it there. He Town Read Flame and wasn't about to vote for himself so I don't see why he didn't try and steer Town away from a lynch he felt was wrong. The Kryptik vote was dropped and he just sort of sat by the sidelines and watched everything.

3 [m] CCS - New - GMT

Lean Town? This one is sort of of odd and I'm conflicted on it but I'll try and explain the best I can. Much of CCS actions throughout the game have felt very genuine to me. His thoughts, opinions, votes, etc. haven't felt Scummy to me in the slightest and I haven't seen anything that really rings any alarm bells. However, like I said above, I don't know what to make of his comment about Acohrs and I. At first I interpreted this as him hinting that he was the Cop and I just let it be, but now with him clarifying today that it's the latter of these two I don't quite know what to make of it? It's obviously not something aginast the rules since he is still here so either he's lying about the information he recieved or he misinterpreted something Cabot said outside of the game itself. But outside of that I do Town Read him.

9 [m] Evilisk - New - AEST [m] acohrs - GMT ( yes, I'm keeping both players together )

Lean Town. Evilisk was only here for Days 1 and 2, with Day 2 being nothing as he went MIA and didn't make a single post. His Day 1 reads to me like a very uncertain new player. Quiet, doesn't really take a whole lot of leaps, and doesn't fight when challenged. I don't really scum, or town, read it.

And then we have Acohrs, practically the complete opposite. Asks questions, prods people, explains himself and his reads/votes. Similar to CCS, his responses and general attitude feel genuine and nothing about his posts ring any alarm bells to me.

13 [m] kryptikjoker - New - PST

Lean Scum? I disregarded his overly defensive behavior of Day 1 as new player jitters but as the game has gone on there hasn't been anything that really makes me feel good about Kryptik. He complains on Day 1 that players need to talk more in order to Scum Hunt better, but his activity doesn't reflect this line of thought. Instead of trying to get people to talk/discuss things, he often times just comes in, votes, and that's it. I also haven't seen any real Scum Hunting being done, it just feels like Kryptik is 'reacting' to things as they happen instead of really trying to figure it all out.

14 [m] Lord of Castamere - CST [m] *Splinter - GMT

Lean Town??? Now I can expand upon my crazy theory if anybody wants me to, but it's getting really late and I have work in the morning so I'm keeping this short. LoC comes in Day 1 and votes for Haly, staying away from the QB lynch in favor of someone he pinned as inactive Scum. Day 2 he comes forward and claims Multi-Shot Vig and that his shot missed on Haly, therefore Haly was Scum and he responds by voting for him. He later clarified that he was only a 1-shot Vig, but I still don't understand why LoC would claim after his shot failed and what he expected to happen. We rally and vote for Haly? His shot 'missing' wasn't anywhere near damning evidence so I don't understand what he planned to accomplish. Everyone, myself included, took this to mean that LoC was telling the truth or else why would Scum do such an outrageous fake-claim after they lost someone on Day 1? And this Town 'clear' kept LoC out of any attention for quite a while, honestly it wasn't until LoC disappeared that people were starting to call him out but even then it wasn't really a Scum Read call out, they just wanted his response. In that time, LoC coasted by without any attention where he voted for Haly and then voted for CornBro, the latter of which I felt had weak reasoning attached to it.

And then we have Splinter. Nothing he has done so far has felt overly Townie or overly Scummy to me, he's just been here ( and drunk ) and is starting to make himself known. I only put him in the Town camp because my theory above involves an incredibly ridiculous Scum Gambit and, frankly, I'm not confident enough in it to bet on it.

15 [m] Not - New - PST [m] Ty4on - GMT+2

Lean Town. Not was here for some time but didn't do much of note. He was incredibly reserved, didn't give his opinions much and most of his posts were about how he would be back later to make some more informed reads. He reads as someone very scared to put his opinion down, something I think can be attributed to both new Town and new Scum players alike.

In comes Ty. He's sort of all over the place when he first joins, voting Crab, then Burb, then finally Corn. I can go over again why I scum read his actions involving the Corn vote, but with Flame flipping Town I honestly do have trouble seeing Scum!Ty messing with the vote like that since it would bring unnecessary attention to himself for no reason. He's also been looking for anything and everything he can this Day Phase, asking questions, getting opinions from people, etc. and I don't feel like he is doing this to appear Townie, I feel like what he is doing is genuine.


If there are 3 Scum left I can see it being like this:

Burb > Kryptik >>> Ty/Splinter/CCS/Acohrs

With the 3rd Scum being someone in that final group, although who I don't know. I'd prefer to see Burb lynched today since he feels the scummiest to me out of everyone, however I'm going to refrain from voting for now since Splinter wanted to come back and voice his opinion first.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Also tomorrow ( well, technically today ) and Thursday are my last two days of work for the year. Usually I have a 50/50 chance of being able to post at work just due to it being busy or because of my boss, but with this being the last week it's almost always dead quiet and I can get away with a lot more.

So I should be able to post every once and while when I'm at work, but I won't know until I get there. If not, I'll be around when I get off of work. :x

Until then, night guys!
 

CCS

Banned
Just want to say Saw, cheers for posting all your big analysis posts! Very useful, even when I don't agree with something they've helped crystallise my thinking throughout the game.
 

acohrs

Member
Didn't we just learn not to go with "low-activity = scum" after Flame flipped town? Anyway, we're losing numbers drastically so I gotta do what's necessary for town and come clean.

I am Taylor Swift, town jailkeeper. Every night I can send the command JAIL and roleblock anyone. While I can stop someone from using their PR, it also protects them from any PRs happening to them.

As for reads, I'm blind as a bat right now after Flame turned out to be town.

Why did you claim? What was your motivation, fear of being lynched or trying to progress discussion?

Me no understand, you're the one recognised generally as most town by myself and a few others, so doing a claim without any pressure seems strange and out of character for the quiet but consistent approach of yours so far

tw-chapter-11-th.jpg
 

Ty4on

Member
If there are 3 Scum left I can see it being like this:

Burb > Kryptik >>> Ty/Splinter/CCS/Acohrs

With the 3rd Scum being someone in that final group, although who I don't know. I'd prefer to see Burb lynched today since he feels the scummiest to me out of everyone, however I'm going to refrain from voting for now since Splinter wanted to come back and voice his opinion first.

I'm not sure what to feel if there are actually just two scum left...

It feels like we've all sort of agreed that Kryptik is scum too. He's been a scum read for a while with me starting with this.
[...] Also, Evilisk's response so far seems very well mannered. He's definitely town.
It's an easy trap to fall in for a scum player (cough cough >_<) to plop a town read like that on a townie. It can be hard to constantly hide the fact you know the alignment.

Plopping Burb and Kryptik into Quantum's post:
As for my reads...
Town:
Pop-O-Matic

Lean Town:
Lord of Castamere
CornBurrito
Kalor
Sawneeks

Scum:
CCS
combine42
kryptikjoker

Lean Scum:
Bronx-Man
Evilisk

Can't tell:
Burbeting
Crab
Flame_AC
Haly
Not
Coppanuva
We kinda see the pattern Crab was talking about. There's a tendency to scum read mates if we're right about Burb and Kryptik, but that's not that weird. Scum cautious of their reads can be hypersensitive to scum tells from their mates because they're biased. It's obv. not confirmed he spread out mates.

Here are my reads:

Town

Borderline Town
CCS
Bronx-Man
Pop-O-Matic
Haly
Coppanuva
Evilisk

Scum
Sawneeks
Burbeting

Borderline Scum
QuantumBro
CornBurrito
Not
Lord of Castermere

Unknown
Kalor
Flame_AC
combine42
Crab
We see nothing but townies in the unknown category. Again with the biased nature of scum reads this isn't that weird IMO. They're both very negative reads tho if presumed scum team is correct.
OMGUS votes are just pretty bad, and feel very defensive in nature. If someone gets one vote from someone else, town wouldn't react with reactionary vote back. However, scum might get stressed and defensive over receiving a vote, especially a player who is playing for the the first time in the community. So it's quite interesting that both of the OMGUS voters (Kryptik and Evilisk) are both new players at least to this mafia community.

I'm still waiting for Crab to appear. This silence of so many players is discomforting.

CCS, how do you feel about Evillisk right now?

At that time (less than 24 posts in the day phase) we had little more than two pages of posts, most of them fluff and/or RNG voting. I vote for people either if they are scummy, or if I want to prod someone. At that time nobody was scummy enough to warrant my vote, and I was still giving my benefit of doubt to the people (like you) who had more or less disappeared. I then voted for you eleven hours later as a prod, as you were one of the disappeared people I really wanted to heard from.

For now, my most worrysome scum read is

VOTE: Evilisk

Every single time people have asked Evillisk something, he has backed down at some level, almost as if he tries his best to please everyone. So if someone has doubted something in him, the reaction has always seemed to be "oh I'm backing down".

This links Burb and Kryptik a little bit to me. Burb is showing suspicion of Kryptik, but ultimately voting for and asking people about Evillisk.

The thing though that bothers me is that they maybe seem a little too bussy for a 3-person scum team. Perhaps some panic at the heat Quantum got. It's weird, it's happened in two scum games where a mate of mine makes a joke or says something true that's interpreted as a slip and something just snaps for scum team. The heat they're getting is frustrating them because it's technically wrong. Judging from Quantum's flip I'm 95% certain it was just a joke so they might've been really wanting the lynch to avoid Quantum.

The negative feeling on D1 can explain the bussing. It's a natural response for pressured scum to bus. "Obviously town are going to think I've put all townies in my scum reads", but most people who've been scum know that feeling. Kryptik might have been the sacrificial lamb (this will IMO be turned upside down if Burb flips anything but poisoner) to save Quantum and Burb.


-------------------------------------
Kryptik has also bothered me because something doesn't quite click with him on a scum team with Saw and Burb. It's not impossible, just a bit weird. He is a new scum, but why go all out to attack your mate? And the attack feels newbie scum, but not newbie scum who's scared to damage their team.
 

Ty4on

Member
I gotta add that I have a tendency to over analyze scum's decisions. In the vast majority of cases there's no big plan behind it, but it's really easy to construct one with circular reasoning.

Sometimes scum team might have a plan, but it's probably very hard to identify. Usually they don't have one and members act individually without consulting the others before every move.
 

Ty4on

Member
o.o


--------------
Forgot to post this. Waited for Kryptik to claim.

One difference that stuck out to me was Quantum's role name including that he was "frontman of alleged ‘band with talent’ Maroon 5". Mine just has the name and apart from Haly and Coppa that has been the case with the other town flips IIRC.
 

acohrs

Member
o.o


--------------
Forgot to post this. Waited for Kryptik to claim.

One difference that stuck out to me was Quantum's role name including that he was "frontman of alleged ‘band with talent’ Maroon 5". Mine just has the name and apart from Haly and Coppa that has been the case with the other town flips IIRC.

Are you suspecting that all the scum are bandmembers of the alleged 'band with talen' Maroon 5? If so, I would agree with Cabot and say that we need to lynch them ASAP
 

Ty4on

Member
Are you suspecting that all the scum are bandmembers of the alleged 'band with talen' Maroon 5? If so, I would agree with Cabot and say that we need to lynch them ASAP
No, just that they might have odd titles which kinda makes a name cop into an alignment cop if it isn't a role cop. The neutral and masons would also stand out.
 

Ty4on

Member
If Burb and Kryptik both flip scum, but the game doesn't end, remember that you can still no lynch unless anyone is poisoned.

Bronx' jailing of Sawneeks could hint at her either being the poisoner or being the target N1. You never know what they're strategy is, but it's generally a good idea for scum to use extra kills early as that person could die prematurely. A ramp up is a common balance mechanism, but that might be balanced already by the poison being a delayed kill with warning.
 
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