Support NeoGAF

[Pedigree Chum]

This isn't saying very much either, I think you'll agree. Unless you now want to start arguing that Cell is 2001 technology.

Technology like this is designed around the target date for mass production and shipment. Not when design started (2001) or when design was announced (2005). When Sony or MS or anyone sits down to design a console, they work out what is possible given their budget and their target launch date. That was 2006 for Sony.

It's irrelevant, but just out of interest, I'm not sure Xenos taped out in August 05. First mass produced silicon may have started coming off the fabs in August, but I'm pretty sure it taped out much earlier than that.

While that is true, can you honestly tell me that Sony couldn't have produced PS3 for holiday season 2005 or or at the latest, Spring 2006 (lol) if they had gone with a DVD drive? It was, is and always will be about blu-ray...this is what's mainly holding back the machine. And by the time fall 2006/Spring 2007 hits the CPU/GPU won't be as impressive as they would have been in 2005/early 2006.

Imagine MS releasing Xbox1 with specs close to that of PS2 a year and a half after PS2 launched but with some new fangled drive (just for fun lets call it DVD+)...would anyone stand for it? A better drive doesn't change the fact that the hardware that draws the pretty pictures on screen is dated.

 

[junkwaffle]

HAY GUYZ I MADE A POLITICAL CARTOON

top that, junkwaffle

for you, Chris

 

[kaching]

Maybe I'm a little foggy from work, but wasn't PS3 and 360 at the same E3 '05 (and Rev)? If the delay is true, doesn't that put the PS3 at well over 18months from unveiling? I mean what is he trying to prove? That the PS3 has been on track all along? That Sony is not in the information providing stage? What's the point?

The point is that the delay is not official and the declarations that many have been making for months now that Sony couldn't possibly make Spring 2006 because they hadn't said anything official yet seemingly ignore recent instances where all of the concrete launch details were delivered within 2-3 months of the actual launch.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

What I find interesting about this news is that it is morphing. Initially, it was November in Japan. Reuters is now just saying November. Has anyone actually read the article in Japan? Did it say November or November in Japan?

 

[3rdman]

Maybe I'm a little foggy from work, but wasn't PS3 and 360 at the same E3 '05 (and Rev)? If the delay is true, doesn't that put the PS3 at well over 18months from unveiling? I mean what is he trying to prove? That the PS3 has been on track all along? That Sony is not in the information providing stage? What's the point?

As far as I know the PS3 has never been seen. At least at E3 '05 ATI had an actual 360 for their tech demo. Has there ever been an actual PS3 on display anywhere?

 

[White Man]

This thread is an orgiastic frenzy of debauched clowny cannibalism.

Even if the November in Japan news is true, I bet Sony will put their foot in their mouth over previous statements about avoiding a worldwide launch. Missing this holiday season in the US won't make 360 the runaway clear victor in the console race, but it would by no means be a good move for Sony. I bet there are some very pretty games coming out for the 360 this holiday season, and them there kiddies will bitch to their parents about getting a 360, leaving the coffers dry come PS3 release.

Also, I think Sony may have learned their lesson about Spring US launched with the PSP.

No way it misses the holidays in the US.

 

[Shogmaster]

This isn't saying very much either, I think you'll agree. Unless you now want to start arguing that Cell is 2001 technology.

That's my whole point. This whole line of reasoning he was using is just stupid. He had no point.

 

[Odysseus]

[WWGLD]

All Sony needs to do is sell vouchers for the PS3 this holiday season. "Buy" it now, pick it up next year! Worked for me!

Signed,

George Lucas

[/WWGLD]

 

[gofreak]

While that is true, can you honestly tell me that Sony couldn't have produced PS3 for holiday season 2005 or or at the latest, Spring 2006 (lol) if they had gone with a DVD drive?

PS3 does not have just a DVD drive. You cannot factor Blu-ray out of this equation at all. It's a key component in the system.

For the same budget, the overall answer is no anyway. PS3's costs cannot be infinite. There's a cap, and that's what Sony built around - what they could put out in 2006 given a certain budget. Other technologies had not ramped at the time either. Everything was timed for 06, not 05.

 

[mrklaw]

Hope sony beat themselves this time.

PS3's date and price announced one and a half weeks before launch :lol

maybe thats what they'll be announcing tomorrow...


can we please have a proper thread for the real announcement? This one will be 20 pages before the meeting even happens.

Night night, tomorrow should be interesting!

 

[Striek]

If going from 4.6GHz to 3.2GHz is the significant change you are talking about, I agree completely.

Hurhur. You're pretty well informed on CELL revisions, I'd imagine.

Xenos taped out in August 2005. RSX taped out December 2005. That's 4 lousy months difference. It's certainly not 2004 tech vs 2006 tech.

December 2004 for Xenos.

And RSX is just a retrofit of design dating back to mid 2004 (G70). And Cell design dates back to what, 2002? :lol And don't give me this "it got redesigned in 2005!" nonsense. I'm sure Xenos design got tweeked right up to it's tape out date in August 2005.

Proving my point.

Which isn't much.

To you.

That's my whole point. This whole line of reasoning he was using is just stupid. He had no point.

My whole point was Pedigree Chum setting arbitrary dates on when a product design is completed or 'from' using any key point in the development cycle which I could do as well to suit my purposes. Which obviously you missed.

 

[cyberheater]

Personally, I still don't believe it.

I'm sure this time tomorrow Sony will give out a official statement stating that they're still on track. Oh how we will laugh...

 

[Vince]

Quite the downgrade. Did they do anything to tweak the processor perfromance-wise since they had to lower the clock speed (like, say, another bus or something)? Surely since 2002 they have?

Shog is an idiot who shouldn't be talking. There was never a 4.6GHz preformance point, the closest it came to anything resembling a preformance set-point is 4GHz, which it's pipeline depth and logic can easily accomidate. The choice of 3.2GHz was just as likely a result of Microsoft's announced speed and the realization that they can increase yeilds by merely matching he speed and that exceeding it allways possible.

Cell, like most CPUs, have very long spans between initial tape-out and production. Initial was, AFAIK, in late 2003. Working samples were being distributed to 3rd parties in late 2004. They are now selling Cell-based machines. All-in-all it's a very timely processor.

Surely since 2002 Cell has been at least tweaked to compare with a newer CPU

Where as the XCPU has been static since... hmm... I don't know of any major tweaks, Cell has gone threw several core revisions to the microarchitecture. The DD1 -> DD2 being significant, us being at DD3 now.

 

[White Man]

I'm pretty sure there won't be a PS3 delay. Instead, sony will announce that spring in Japan has officially been lengthened to include November.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

OKAY STOP THE THREAD!

clear this for me please, what is official?

A) November 2006 for Japan = US may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

B) November 2006 for US = Japan may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

C) Sony am cry?

 

[Flo_Evans]

well this blows. :lol

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Personally, I still don't believe it.

I'm sure this time tomorrow Sony will give out a official statement stating that they're still on track. Oh how we will laugh...

http://www.amtddj.inlumen.com/bin/djstory?StoryId=Crbzn0aebqLqWmdyXnZ

SONY CORP (SNE)
Said it will delay the release of its PlayStation 3
next-generation video game console until early November
because the copy-protection technology has not been
finalized.
Price: $47.75
Net Change: $0.97
% Change: 2.07% Gain
Volume: 445,000 Shares

So now Sony feeds rumors to its shareholders?

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

OKAY STOP THE THREAD!

clear this for me please, what is official?

A) November 2006 for Japan = US may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

B) November 2006 for US = Japan may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

C) Sony am cry?

Nothing is official. 1 AM eastern...

 

[dante786]

is it just me or has most of this thread become useless tech jargon and arguement...its all still just speculation. and while we're speculating why not have some more hilarious photoshops???

hilarious photoshops > boring tech arguements

 

[choplifter]

PS3 Release Date:

4 September 2006 in Japan, not November. November is for United States and Canada.
Price: 349$ with HD cables and Wireless Controller
Process: Cell at 65nm fabbed by Sony, RSX at 65nm fabbed by Toshiba.
Memory: 256+256

I'm not saying I believe this, but 65nm should be possible by late 2006. Nvidia has said it's next-gen GPU will be on 65nm. 90nm is kinda getting old now.

with that said, I still expect PS3 CPU+GPU on 90nm.

 

[mrklaw]

OKAY STOP THE THREAD!

clear this for me please, what is official?

A) November 2006 for Japan = US may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

B) November 2006 for US = Japan may not see PS3s until Spring 2007?

C) Sony am cry?

only nipples and tits have been confirmed so far.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I'm pretty sure there won't be a PS3 delay. Instead, sony will officially announce that spring in Japan has officially been lengthened to include November.

"I have the power to do this"

 

[seanoff]

unless sony release something in the next hour or so, i'm prepared to take this at face value. It is 8.15 in Tokyo, i wouldn't expect much just a statement saying report inaccurate.

If this doesn't happen they are letting this news run and therefore it is likely to be true.

I'm also of the opinion that if it is delayed a year after the 360 it needs to be significantly more powerful or significantly better specced for the same money. So HDD, and mem stick in the package at least.

<edit>and if it is november i will be expecting a launch line-up that completely blitzes any launch line up on all systems past and future. less than this i will consider it a failure, because devs have had ample time to get good games up.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

2007 in U.S. and Europe? If they give a Xbox 360 that no longer has supply issues another Christmas all alone in the U.S....... Sony am cry. Is anyone really going to want to spend a possible $400+ on a console a few months after xmas?

 

[Odysseus]

I'm pretty sure there won't be a PS3 delay. Instead, sony will officially announce that spring in Japan has officially been lengthened to include November.

They've done this by using the Cell to move Japan into the southern hemisphere. Tectonic plates have been altered, which will set off a chain of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions that will prove disastrous, ejecting billions of tons of ash and toxic gases, creating tsunamis that plague coastlines worldwide, and resulting in the deaths of 1/3 of the earth's population.

"I told you this thing was powerful!" - Ken Kutaragi
"I said wow." - Satoru Iwata
"Holy ****" - "Dolla Dolla" Bill Gates
"Not my problem." - Reggie

 

[Bebpo]

unless sony release something in the next hour or so, i'm prepared to take this at face value. It is 8.15 in Tokyo, i wouldn't expect much just a statement saying report inaccurate.

If this doesn't happen they are letting this news run and therefore it is likely to be true.

I'm also of the opinion that if it is delayed a year after the 360 it needs to be significantly more powerful or significantly better specced for the same money. So HDD, and mem stick in the package.

Wait, why should they give a statement at 8am, when they're giving an ENTIRE MEETING later in the day to clear this all up? They don't want to blow their info and have nothing to say at their meeting.

Just be patient.

 

[fronn]

While that is true, can you honestly tell me that Sony couldn't have produced PS3 for holiday season 2005 or or at the latest, Spring 2006 (lol) if they had gone with a DVD drive? It was, is and always will be about blu-ray...this is what's mainly holding back the machine. And by the time fall 2006/Spring 2007 hits the CPU/GPU won't be as impressive as they would have been in 2005/early 2006.

Imagine MS releasing Xbox1 with specs close to that of PS2 a year and a half after PS2 launched but with some new fangled drive (just for fun lets call it DVD+)...would anyone stand for it? A better drive doesn't change the fact that the hardware that draws the pretty pictures on screen is dated.

This is an incredibly stupid debate... Whoever originally started it needs their head screwed on tighter.

Can you honestly tell me that X360 couldn't be produced in '04 if MS didn't want it to be so? (none of the die sizes or anything in it would be out of bounds for a '04 launch, possibly even early if they were targeting such).

PS3 could have been launched in 04 too, but at what cost? Die sizes and target time period are the important parts. None of the technology in any of the consoles would preclude them from launching in 2002 even! -- it's just how costly they'd be? It isn't really feasible to put 230m and 300m transistor chips out in massive quantities (millions) in 04 or 05. X360 has a ~165m and 232m (+ 100m on a seperate die), so it could more easily be produced in 05 (you also don't have things like BR and XDR that are essentially in their first mass market products with PS3).

It doesn't matter regardless, the consumers don't know the difference between a transistor and a gflop anyways (even the more hardcore early adopter gamers). They'll know what they're told and if they are told PS3 is a good deal when it arrives, they'll accept it with a smile on their fat faces. It doesn't matter that the chip was manufacturable in 05 or 04.

 

[Vennt]

Shog is an idiot who shouldn't be talking.

And Vince is an idiot who shouldn't be posting, seeing as he missed my memo on insults being posted. 7 days will lighten the laod a nanoscopic amount.

 

[WolfgangK]

Missing this holiday season in the US won't make 360 the runaway clear victor in the console race, but it would by no means be a good move for Sony. I bet there are some very pretty games coming out for the 360 this holiday season, and them there kiddies will bitch to their parents about getting a 360, leaving the coffers dry come PS3 release

In addition, MS can take advantage and drop the price on the 360 in time for the holiday season...so even if PS3 makes it for the holidays, MS will be pusing 2nd gen 360 games, stockpiles of hardware, which you'd think would have fabrication and production problems ironed out by that time...at a lower price. And I think one would be stupid to think MS isn't going to come out with some surprises at E3 that should be ready for the holidays.

Regardless of whether it's Oct., Nov., in addition to filling up the product pipeline in coming weeks, MS has to feel like it just got a B12 shot, and will push HARD to take advantage and have every canon primed and loaded to fire directly in the PS3's direction Fall '06. Whatever the reason, the last thing Sony needs is for MS to have even more time to prepare it's counter-assault to the PS3 launch.

 

[GashPrex]

uh when people are losing millions of dollars over this news, and sony has not corrected it - then it's "official" as it can get without a press release.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

only nipples and tits have been confirmed so far.

Thank you Mr. Arse Face, nipples and tits I like this news

GAF will be fun tomorrow

 

[Odysseus]

Can you honestly tell me that X360 couldn't be produced in '04 if MS didn't want it to be so? (none of the die sizes or anything in it would be out of bounds for a '04 launch, possibly even early if they were targeting such).

Judging by their inability to produce it in 2005 and so far in 2006, I would say apparently not.

 

[Chittagong]

Tokyo stock market opens at 9 am, in 35 minutes. It'll be interesting to see whether the PS3 delay was already in the profit expectations, or whether the stock will dip based on the article. Usually a single product wouldn't really matter, but in case of Sony, the importance of PS3 is enormous, so it could ignite a downbeat mood.

Check out the quote here:

http://quote.tse.or.jp/tse/quote.cgi?F=listing/EDetail1&MKTN=T&QCODE=6758


EDIT: link changed. let's see if this works. Just click on the 5 minutes to get the right view.

 

[White Man]

Wait, why should they give a statement at 8am, when they're giving an ENTIRE MEETING later in the day to clear this all up? They don't want to blow their info and have nothing to say at their meeting.

Just be patient.

My prediction for the meeting:

"So, yeah, sorry, PS3 is delayed. But to make up for it, I found this ENTIRE WAREHOUSE filled with PSones with the LCD screens bundled together, and we've decided to place them on the market.

<applause>"

 

[gofreak]

I'm also of the opinion that if it is delayed a year after the 360 it needs to be significantly more powerful or significantly better specced for the same money. So HDD, and mem stick in the package at least.

The "base" unit is already better specced. PS3 could and probably will be more expensive than 360 premium now, and "supportably" so (if i can make up a word ).

 

[Illuminati]

Regardless of whether it's Oct., Nov., in addition to filling up the product pipeline in coming weeks, MS has to feel like it just got a B12 shot, and will push HARD to take advantage and have every canon primed and loaded to fire directly in the PS3's direction Fall '06. Whatever the reason, the last thing Sony needs is for MS to have even more time to prepare it's counter-assault to the PS3 launch.

Your neglecting the fact that it is also giving PS3 game developers more time to work on their games too.

 

[mrklaw]

unless sony release something in the next hour or so, i'm prepared to take this at face value. It is 8.15 in Tokyo, i wouldn't expect much just a statement saying report inaccurate.

If this doesn't happen they are letting this news run and therefore it is likely to be true.

well they have this meeting thing organised for today (Japan time). I think someone on GAF mentioned it recently?

I'm also of the opinion that if it is delayed a year after the 360 it needs to be significantly more powerful or significantly better specced for the same money. So HDD, and mem stick in the package at least..

It was already expected a year later in the US (November). More powerful or not we'll have to wait and see.

 

[hadareud]

Tokyo stock market opens at 9 am, in 35 minutes. It'll be interesting to see whether the PS3 delay was already in the profit expectations, or whether the stock will dip based on the article. Usually a single product wouldn't really matter, but in case of Sony, the importance of PS3 is enormous, so it could ignite a downbeat mood.

Check out the quote here:

http://quote.tse.or.jp/tse/quote.cgi?F=listing/Edetail1&QCODE=6758&MKTN=T&cht=23&mode=T#chart

Link is not working, but this will be interesting to watch (if we can)

 

[White Man]

well they have this meeting thing organised for today (Japan time). I think someone on GAF mentioned it recently?

But by the time that meeting happens, their stocks will already have taken a hit. Sony would nip this in the bud now rather than sit on this until after it could do them damage.

 

[cyberheater]

http://www.amtddj.inlumen.com/bin/djstory?StoryId=Crbzn0aebqLqWmdyXnZ


So now Sony feeds rumors to its shareholders?

So it's not the bluray movie copy protection. It's the games copy protection???

Why would they need to be different?

 

[Cosmozone]

It's crucial for Sony not to miss the holiday season which would result in no much difference. Otherwise, well, too bad for them. It would be a severe hit to Sony's Blu-Ray plans. Gaming wouldn't suffer as much.

Great irony here with the copy protection issues backfiring at their creators, if that is indeed the reason for the delay. I can't help feeling a little mischievous.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Good topic title change.

 

[kaizoku]

Funny title changes :lol

I was reading earlier about how all xbox360 games so far haven't come close to needing HD-format, despite being in HD. X360 games haven't even gotten to the point where they need multiple DVDs. On top of that compression technology keeps getting better so it could be awhile before games grow beyond one DVD.

How Sony wants developers to fill 25gb I have no idea. Seems extremely far fetched to expect developers to fill that, their resources already strained. Then they have to match MS for online content. Will be interesting to see what they can pull off. I pray the analogue sticks have bee improved. and the controllers are rechargeable.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

so when is the annoucement? what time?

 

[Doom_Bringer]

so when is the annoucement? what time?

1 AM EST. But stuff probably won't start to leak until 2 or 3 AM! Best thing is to check GAF first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[lachesis]

1am eastern time. Looks like I"ll go to bed around 2. See you all then.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

How Sony wants developers to fill 25gb I have no idea.

A) 18 hrs of CG? That should be pretty cheap to produce...
B) Maybe every game comes with a copy of Underworld: The Movie?
C) 7,500 Exlusive Game-atars for your Fun-O-Tag on HUB?
D) All of the above?

I'll be grading all of your responses.

 

[Snow]

Link is not working, but this will be interesting to watch (if we can)

I think this link might work:
http://www.tse.or.jp/english/index.shtml

Search for Sony Corp. And then scroll down to the chart and click on "5 minutes" to get the chart someone previously tried to link to.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

So it's not the bluray movie copy protection. It's the games copy protection???

Why would they need to be different?

Well it doesn't specifically say games copy protection...I guess we'll find out all the details soon enough, but as of right now it seems like the Nov delay is true.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Great irony here with the copy protection issues backfiring at their creators, if that is indeed the reason for the delay. I can't help feeling a little mischievous.

Somewhere in Rdmond Stinkles is laughing.